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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Shropshire => England => Shropshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: Gaye on Friday 16 July 10 04:10 BST (UK)
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Hi
Can someone pls find :
Thomas ALLEN b.abt 1791 Stoke St Milborough christening
wife Mary (?)
one known child :
Richard b.1830
Very much appreciate finding more family members
Thanks in advance
GAYE
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1861
RG9/1838/19/5
thomas allen age 70. b. stoke st.milborough. occ. farmer of 30 acres. head
mary age 58. b. holdgate,shropshire. wife
elizabeth.a.edwards age 15. b. holdgate. visitor
henry allen age 15. b. shipton,shropshire. lodger
living at;brookhampton and holdgate,shropshire
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1851 transcribed as halen
HO107/1982/539/6
thomas allen age 60. b. culmington. occ. farmer of 20 acres. head
mary age 49. b. stanton. wife
mary allen age 24. b. holdgate. occ. servant. daughter
richard allen age 19. b. holdgate. occ. journeyman ----?. son
ann allen age 17. b. ditto. occ. dressmaker. daughter
jeremiah allen age 15. b. ditto. occ. journeyman shoemaker. son
eliza allen age 9. b. ditto. daughter
henry allen age 4. b. shipton. grandson
living at;holdgate,shropshire
reg.dist; ludlow
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1841
HO107/912/22/8/8.
thomas allen age 40. occ. farmer
martha allen age 35.
mary allen age 15
richard allen age 10
ann allen age 8
jeremiah allen age 6
living at;holdgate,shropshire
all born in county
was thomas married twice or is this martha and mary one and the same person
will see if i can find a death of a martha allen in ludlow reg dist between 1841-1851
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cannot find a death of a martha allen in ludlow in the timescale
this would lead one to believe martha and mary are quiet possibly one and the same
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will try and follow jeremiah through
here he is in 1861
RG9/1845/21/2
jeremiah allen age 24. b. holdgate. occ. shepherd(unm)
he is residing in the household of richard/eliza esp richards occ. farmer
address;larden grainge, shipton,church streeton,shropshire
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here he is in 1871
RG10/2727/18/2
mary allen age 68. b. holdgate. occ. farmer of 18 acres. head(wid)
jeremiah allen age 35. b. ditto. son(mar)
sarah allen age 41. b. bitterly,shropshire(jeremiah's wife)
thomas allen age 3. b. holdgate.(jeremiahs son)
living at;holdgate,brookhampton,shropshire.
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here is jeremiahs marr
jeremiah allen/sarah gilson
y.o.r. 1865
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; ludlow
vol; 6a
page; 1151
and here is his fathers death index
thomas allen
y.o.r. 1871
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; ludlow
vol; 6a
page; 437
age at death; 80
est birth year; 1791
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1881
RG11/2617/18/4
mary allen age 78. b. holdgate. occ. farmer of 20 acres. head(wid)
jeremiah allen age 45. b. ditto. occ. agr.lab. son(mar)
thomas allen age 13. b. ditto. grandson
john allen age 8. b. ditto. grandson
living at; leashons farmhouse,holdgate,shropshire
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1891
RG12/2092/42/1
jeremiah allen age 55. b. holdgate. occ. farmer. head
sarah allen age 62. b. bitterley. wife
john allen age 18. b. holdgate. son
louisa town age 23. b. stoke st.milborough. occ. school teacher. lodger
living at;netherton,st.mary,highley,shropshire
reg.dist;cleobury mortimer
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jeremiahs mother mary died in 1886
death index
mary allen
y.o.r. 1886
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist;ludlow
vol; 6a
page; 359
age at death; 83
est birth year; 1803
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1901
RG13/2515/81/12
john allen age 28. b. holdgate. occ. farmer. head(unm)
jeremiah allen age 65. b. ditto. occ. stockman on farm. father
sarah allen age 72. b. bitterley. mother
living at;the wood farm,neen sollars,shropshire
reg.dist; cleobury mortimer
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here is probably jeremiahs death index
jeremiah allen
y.o.r. 1922
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; ludlow
vol; 6a
page; 678
age at death; 87
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cannot find richard allen anywhere after 1851
no death or marriage
could he have emigrated?
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henry allen in down as grandson to thomas and mary in 1861
so thomas must have had another son that does not appear with him in any census
think this might well be him
there is this christening on the I.G.I.
henry allen christened on the 23rd nov 1845 at shipton,shropshire
parents; george allen/mary allen
ext.rec.
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there are 2 other children of this couple
edward allen christened on the 4/7/1841
william christened on the 26/9/1843
there is this from 1851 census
looks like george first wife might have died and he re-married
1851
HO107/1984/105/4
george allen age 30. b. holdgate. occ. agr.lab. head
ann age 25. b. elton,herfordshire. wife
edward age 9. b. shipton. son
george age 1. b. shipton. son
living at;shipton,shropshire
reg.dist; church stretton
there is a death of a mary allen in 1846 in church stretton
there is then a marriage in 1848 of a george allen and ann montford
this all seems to tie in nicely
will leave it there for now
if there is any of the other children of thomas and mary that you would like me to try and look for i will do my best
cannot see the other son william
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;D ;D ;D
WHOA......
What an incredible line up of info!
So so so pleased with you all - thanks so much!!!
Now, there's a couple of entries concerning a GEORGE allen
but I cannot place where he is in this family of
Thomas & Mary
?? ???
Thanks,
GAYE
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Wozzle on the button with RICHARD ALLEN
He set sail for the antipodes in 1852 - arriving New Zealand 1853
and married Elizabeth Pridham (from Glooucester) in 1854
there's one we CAN trace!
thanks for that
GAYE
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;D ;D ;D
WHOA......
What an incredible line up of info!
So so so pleased with you all - thanks so much!!!
Now, there's a couple of entries concerning a GEORGE allen
but I cannot place where he is in this family of
Thomas & Mary
?? ???
Thanks,
GAYE
on the 1861 census i gave you of thomas and mary there was a grandson with them by the name of henry allen
so if he is a grandson with the name allen he must be the son of one of thomas's children
i then found this grandsons baptism and his father was george allen so george allen must be the son of thomas allen
hope this is clearer now
mick
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thomas and mary's daughter ann allen who is with her parents in 1841,1851 but not there in 1861
got married in 1856 to william davies
here they are in 1861
RG9/1848/150/5
william davies age 31. b. maunstone,shropshire. occ. gardener occupying 6 acres of land. head
ann davies age 28. b. holdgate. occ. dressmaker. wife
agnes.m.davies age 3. b. long stanton,shropshire. daughter
hubert.h.davies age 1. b. ditto. son
martha edwards age 38. b. holdgate. occ. dressmaker. lodger
richard edwards age 6. b. long stanton. lodgers son
living at;long stanton,shropshire
reg.dist; bridgnorth
if you have a look at the 1861 census posted of thomas/mary allen
you will find a elizabeth edwards born holdgate with them
wonder if she is anything to do with the martha edwards visiting above
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and here is anns marriage in a little more detail
william davies/ann allen
y.o.r. 1856
qtr; apr/may/jun
dist; ludlow
vol; 6a
page;919
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have to go offline now
will come back later on and continue on with ann
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:D thanks for clarifying that for me Mick - understood now.
Great tracking with Ann Allen many thanks for all this extra detail Wozzle!
:-* :-* :-*
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right back again here is anne in 1871
RG10/2741/71/1
william davies age 41. b. mainstone. occ. gardener decenting preacher?. head
anne age 38. b. holdgate. wife
hubert.h. age 11. b. long stanton. son
eliza.a. age 8. b. ditto. daughter
newman.w. age 7. b. long stanton. son
stanley.t. age 5. b. ditto. son
harvey.a. age 3. b. ditto. son
living at;leith,long stanton,shropshire
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1881
RG11/2628/138/3
william davies age 51. b. mainstone. occ. gardener and local preacher. head
ann age 48. b. holdgate. occ. dressmaker. wife
hubert.h. age 21. b. long stanton. occ. bricklayer. son
harvey.a. age 13. b. ditto. occ. labourer. son
auberey.e. age 10. b. ditto. son
walter.c. age 8. b. ditto. son
mary elizabeth age 5. b. ditto. daughter
living at;leith cottages,long stanton
reg.dist; bridgnorth
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1891
RG12/2093/118/1
william davies age 61. b. mainstone. occ. gardener and farmer. head
ann age 58. b. holdgate. occ. dressmaker. wife
hubert henry age 31. b. long stanton. occ. mason and bricklayer. son(unm)
walter charles age 18. b. ditto. occ. gardener. son
mary elizabeth age 16. b. ditto. occ. dressmaker. daughter
mary jane hotres age 23. b. downton. occ. dressmaker. visitor(unm)
living at;leith,long stanton,shropshire
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by the time 1901 comes round ann appears to have died
here is her husband in 1901
RG13/2517/115/3
william davies age 71. b. mainstone. occ. jobbing gardener and farmer. head(wid)
living at;leath cottage,long stanton,shropshire
and this is the only death index i can find that would fit with anns age
annie davies
y.o.r. 1898
qtr; july/aug/sept
dist; bridgnorth
vol; 6a
page; 345
age at death; 65
est birth year; 1833
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so there is ann
if you want me to search for any of her children then i will
mick
you now know what happened to 3 of thomas/mary allens children
richard
jeremiah
ann
that just leaves eliza born 1842 holdgate
mary born 1824 holdgate
you have a partial record of the other son george
will see if i can follow him through later but will have a look for eliza first
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Hiya
Do you think this might be Eliza and her husband:
RG9/1845/21/2
jeremiah allen age 24. b. holdgate. occ. shepherd(unm)
he is residing in the household of richard/eliza esp richards occ. farmer
address;larden grainge, shipton,church streeton,shropshire
ErrorSPAM
REPORT THIS POST AS SPAM (Use 'Report to Moderator'). DO NOT CLICK ON ANY LINKS IN THIS POST. DO NOT REPLY TO THIS PERSON.
][/color] - Does that entry show their surname? Or is it Richard Richards???
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you already have eliza in 1851(see reply 2)
she is not with her parents in 1861(see reply 1)
she is not on the census anywhere in 1861
here is a probable explanation(you would need cert to be sure)
death index
name; eliza allen
y.o.r. 1853
qtr;oct/nov/dec
dist; ludlow
vol; 6a
page; 333
this is the right dist for where the family lived
with regard to your last posting the surname is esp
but this is not your eliza this one was born 1814 your eliza was born c1842
i think the death entry above is very probably her
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that just leaves mary allen born 1824
you already have her in 1841,1851 with parents
she also is not with parents in 1861
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Oh ok thanks Wozzle....
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that's an enormous help on the Allen family - is there a chance you could
help with the generation before this :
Catherine Allen b.1807 Stoke St Milborough
married Thomas Tantram b. 1795 burford
with one known daughter Caroline b.1833
Hoping to find more of their children as well if poss.
:)
GAYE
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o.k will have a go
with ref to mary allen the only thing i can find is a marr in ludlow between a thomas smout/mary anne allen in 1851(after the 1851 census)
then there is a death in 1852 in ludlow of a mary anne smout
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1841
HO107/917/3/folio missing/10
thomas tantram age 40. occ. farmer
catherine tantram age 25
caroline tantram age 8
living at;church bridge,burford,shropshire
reg.dist;tenbury
catherines born c.1816 according to this
will see what age is given on the 1851 census
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:o
OHHH SMOUT!!!!
I believe that is a link!
there's a big tie up of Allen-Tantram families here in NZ and they all
hailed from Shropshire - i've seen Smout and Beddoes also connected...
So that's definitely a strong lead for Mary
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this is a bit better
1851
HO107/2040/23/14
thomas tantram age 56. b. burford. occ. farmer of 39 acres. head
catherine age 42. b. stoke st. milborough. wife
caroline age 18. b. burford. daughter
charles webb age 15. b. corley. occ. farm servant
living at;tilsop cottage,tilsop,shropshire
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in case you do not have it
caroline tantrum daughter of thomas/caroline?tantram baptised on the 3rd feb 1833 at burford,shropshire
ext.rec. I.G..I.
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that is the only child i can find baptised in burford
with father thomas
do you have any of the censuses apart from 1841,1851 which i have just given you for this family
will await your reply
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Hi again
No I don't have anymore on this wee twig ... appears that Thomas
died 1865 and this may be Catherine in 1881 ??? do you think???
RG11 2627/82 Page 2
Richard WYER Head W aged 68 b. Stottesdon, Shropshire,
Farmer Of 62 Acres
Catharine TANTRAM Border W aged 71 b. Stottesdon, Shropshire,
Jane CHANDLER Serv U Female aged 14 b. Stottesdon, Shropshire
Domestic Serv
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possibly her
will do the earlier census 1861,1871 see if it can tie up with 1881
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caroline marries in 1854 in tenbury to a george bradley
george bradley/caroline tantram
y.o.r. 1854
qtr; jan/feb/mar
dist; tenbury
vol; 6c
page; 283
here they are in 1861
RG9/2083/30/16
george bradley age 30. b. shropshire. occ. farmer of 340 acres. head
caroline age 28. b. burford. wife
clara catherine age 10. b. burford. daughter
thomas bregges bradley age 4. b. burford. son
george ernest bradley age 1. b. burford. son
joseph jones age 25. b. radnorshire,wales
mary owens age 15. b. shropshire. occ. house servant
thomas gittens age 16. b. shropshire. occ. cowman
hubert moyle age 12. b. shropshire. occ cow boy
living at;shear farm,burford,shropshire
reg.dist; tenbury
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so clara catherine must have been born before the marriage
either she is the daughter of george bradley from a previous marriage or caroline is her mother and she was illegitiimate
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could be illegitimate for sure in those days did they register under
the fathers name or the mothers maiden name
Not that that one matters in the scheme of things...I'm having to skirt
round the fences to pinpoint the Trantrum/Tantram - Allen connection
that eventually brought them to New Zealand
HAHAH ohhh heck its a puzzle but thanks to you made huge inroads!
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right back to catherine
here she is in 1861
transcribed as tuntrum
1861
RG9/2083/19/13
thomas tantrum age 69. b. burford. head(no occ given)
catherine age 50. b. burford. wife
mary pugh age 77. b. burford. lodger
thomas beddoes age 14. b. bitterley,shropshire. visitor
mary withey age 13. b. burford. occ. house srvant
living at;tilsop cottage,burford,shropshire
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:o :o
ooooh ooh there's the BEDDOES name ....
;D
I've seen it embedded as a middle name in one of the associated
trees and couldn't for the life of me track it down a little while ago...
but I will....
FANTASTIC !!!
:-*
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1871
RG22/15/10/3039/
transcribed as tanham
catherine tantram age 61. b. stoke st.milborough. opcc. formerly farmer. head(wid)
caroline.l.bradley age 9. b. burford. grand daughter
william.e.sheppard age 21. b. bockleton,worcs. occ. labourer. lodger
emma.s.sheppard age 22. b. liverpool. lodgers wife
william.h.sheppard age 11mnths. b. lindridge,worcs. lodgers son
living at;tilsop cottage,tilsop,shropshire
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in 1871 also living in tilsop is her daughter caroline and her husband george bradley
will give you the full entry for them later.
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catherine dies in 1886
catherine tantram
y.o.r. 1886
qtr; oct/nov/dec
dist; cleobury mortimer
vol; 6a
page; 413
age at death; 76
est birth year; 1810
on the 1881 you suggested that she might be a lodger in the household of richard wyer
the reg dist for this entry is cleobury mortimer
seeing as her death appears to have happened in this dist then i would say it is apretty good bet that you surmised correctly
and that the 1881 entry posted by you is indeed her.
will continue on with caroline
unless you would now like me to see what became of thomas beddoes and who his parents were
again will wait for your reply
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;D
HUGE APPLAUSE FOR YOU!!!
Thank you so much
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Gosh you are so clever and quick!
Here it is Saturday morning 11.15 and I'm in pyjamas just LOVING
this tree making!
Onward with the TANTRUM family I'd say - the Beddoes is an offshoot
but could provide a strong link as I know it came downunder as a middle
name ... whichever is your best 'gut fee' ... you know your stuff!
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we already have caroline up to 1861 so will continue on with her and come back to beddoes after
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1871
RG10/3039/35/19
george bradley age 42. b. abdon,shropshire. farmer of 352 acres. head
caroline age 39. b. burford. wife
george.e.bradley age 11. b. burford. son
charles.a.bradley age 6. b. burford. son
living at;shear farm,tilsop,shropshire
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thanks
ideally we want to track the siblings of both Catherine Allen and
thomas Tantrum to see the connection to New Zealand
We know that Richard Allen b.1830 son of thos & Mary did come to NZ
and married in 1854
there's cross pollination with Allens/Tantrums in that and previous
generations that binds the families here in NZ .... its an unravelling!
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1881
RG11/2906/20/12
george bradley age 51. b. abdon. occ. farmer
caroline age 48. b. burford. wife
clara age 25. b. burford. daughter
thomas age 24. b. burford. son(in 1871 thomas whose full name is thomas bright bradley is a pupil in court bank school,herefordshire)
louisa age 18. b. burford. daughter(this must be the caroline.l.bradley visiting catherine tantram in 1871)
arthur age 16. b. burford. son(think this must be the charles.a. on the 1871 census)
mary oliver age 22. b. eastham. occ. general servant
living at;the ferne,nash,shropshire
reg.dist;tenbury
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these are the only christenings i can see for thomas tantrum
thomas tantram son of john/mary tantrum baptised on the 25th feb 1799 at ludlow
thomas tantrum son of thomas/sarah tantram baptised on the 11th may 1791 at ludlow
both are ext rec.
bit more luck with catherine
catherine allen daughter of thomas/martha allen baptised on the 20th nov 1807 at stoke milborough,shropshire
these are the other children of thomas/martha with baptismal dates
john allen 14th sept 1788
thomas allen 8th may 1791
martha allen 20th jan 1793
mary allen 29th march 1795
william allen 26th jun 1796
hannah allen 3rd jan 1799
sarah allen 10th may 1801
richard allen 15th july 1803
edward allen 28th apr 1805
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so is it these people you want me to try and follow
you already have thomas 1791 and catherine 1807
the females will be hard to trace the males might be a little bit easier to follow(though i would not put my life savings on it)
mick
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heck no life savings to be placed! hahah
Correct we already have tracked Catherine & Thomas Tantram
so best bet now is to try to track male siblings and see what
arises?
You must be tired!
Go whenever you are ready and I'll catch it up later - really really
appreciate your help.
:-*
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just about to say i am off to bed now
but just found this might be parents of the allen clan whose baptisms i have just posted
marriage;
groom; thomas allen
status; bachelor
grooms parish; long stanton
bride; martha millichap
status; spinster
brides parish; bitterley
marriage date;11th oct 1787
venue; st.marys church,bitterley,shropshire
witnesses;thomas bach and francis millichap
the reason i have posted this is that it occurred in bitterley which was where the beddoes who appears in one of the censuses i posted was born plus the bride and groom have the right names for the allen baptisms i have just posted
anyway off to bed now see you tomorrow night when i will try and see if i can trace any of these male allens
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Many thanks and sleep well!
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Mick - thought I would tell you before you labour on the Allens any further
I found someone who had researched the family and the male siblings of
Catherine (sons of Thomas and Martha Millichap) None of them lead us
to any more Tantram connections.
I guess then we have to focus on the male siblings of Thomas Tantrum and
see how they fare?
There's a bunch born to Thomas & Jane in IGI St Milborough - hopefully they are related to my Thomas born abt 1795 who married Catherine Allen.
These males of Thomas & Jane are :
John 1810
William 1812
Thomas 1815
Charles 1820 died 1821
Richard 1821 unmar in 1881 Census
Edward 1825 unmar in 1881 Census
George 1829
Cheers
GAYE
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having real difficulty finding these people
there is a death of a george tantram in 1840 in ludlow dist(which is the right dist for stoke milborough)
have found richard in 1851 with his parents thomas/jane but the surname is tantoram
also found edward away from home in 1851 but his surname is also tantorum
also with richard and his parents is a caroline tantorum down as grand daughter born 1839 in stoke milborough
having said that i can find no other records apart from 1851 census of the surname tantorum in shropshire
so it looks like we have come to a dead end with these
we know richard and edward are around in later censuses but as for the others i am stumped.
the only explanation which i can think of is that the 3 eldest sons either emigrated or died before 1837
i could try and follow caroline the grand daughter(but i am not even positive her surname is really tantram/tantoram because i cannot find a birth in 1837-1841 in shropshire that fits)
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cannot find a caroline tantram/tantorum after 1851
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Well thanks so much for all your fine effort on these
branches. You may well be right about the Tantram's emigrating
earlier - there are some in Australia and I might be best to tap
into some researchers across the Tasman Sea!
;D :-*
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Hi there, I am married to a much younger Thomas Allen ... we live in holdgate and he is related to all the above you have been discussing... most of them listed on our family tree. ; :)