RootsChat.Com
Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Fermanagh => Topic started by: Gortinanima on Friday 16 July 10 17:14 BST (UK)
-
Both PRONI and the National Archives of Ireland have microfilm copies of Knockninny RC Church records which begin in 1855 so I assumed that the births, marriages registers began in that year. I was searching the Cavan BRSgenealogical database and was surprised to see that their database had earlier records for Knockninny Catholic church. I emailed them for verification and got this reply:
'Knockninny baptisms and marriages begin in 1835 although there are some gaps. Knockninny RC records are included in Cavan’s database since Knockninny is in the Diocese of Kilmore. Irish World in Tyrone who oversee Fermanagh and Tyrone records do not have church records for Knockninny computerized. I hope that this information is helpful in your research'.
So it seems that there was an earlier register of births and marriages that run from 1835 [but was not microfilmed], so this is great news!!
Researching families of McManus in Derrymacausey; Green in Trasna; McAvinue in parishes of Kinawley/Tomregan/Galloon.
-
If I were visiting Ireland could I go and look up those Knockninny records somewhere?
Valerie Campbell Ackroyd
RESEARCHING in IRELAND: Reilly and Gilleece/Aughyoule/Drumrush/Belturbet
-
The original records are probably with the priest in Derrylin.
PRONI has microfilm of births, marriages 1855-1871
Cavan genealogy has the registers from 1835-1905 [with gaps - I think the period 1855-1871]
Available at:
rootsireland.ie
-
I actually paid a researcher in Ireland to look my family up but he couldn't find my exact ggparents although he found families with the same last name. Just couldn't find the right first names and dates. So I have about given up ???
-
Would this have been the only Catholic church in that area?
I just found my gg grandfather's first marriage in Derrylin, but I don't know if it was his area of just his wife's. I also don't know what church, but I doubt there was many RC churches.
Do you know if they would rather people contact the priest to look at the records or if they would rather a researcher look at it themselves? My father will be in Ireland next month and he's willing to look things up for me (they are his ancestors too, afterall).
-
Derrylin is in Kinawley parish - there are 3 chapels in the parish - there is also a Catholic Church in Teemore [a small village 2 miles from Derrylin] and there is a Catholic church in Kinawley as well as one in Derrylin.
Teemore & Derrylin registers would be the same. Kinawley registers are separate.
Kinawley parish is in the Diocese of Kilmore - mostly county Cavan with part of Fermanagh.
I am sure if you contact the priests in advance that would help.
-
I don't suppose there would be any local histories written about that area? My ggps lived in, as I said, Drumrush and Aughyoule but after they married they moved to Belturbet. When Ireland was divided, I think Aughyoule became part of Northern Ireland? I know that two great uncles were postmen in Belturbet but the last thing I know of the family was from the 1911 census when they lived in Belturbet. One brother and two sisters came to Canada but don't know anything about what happened to the rest of the family. I tried visiting the churches while I was there but no one was in the churches in Belturbet. If I contacted the priest in Belturbet, how difficult would it be for him to find any records of deaths so that I could know when my ggm passed away?
-
Johal,
If you give us some names we may be able to help. I can find two Reilly/Gilleece marriages, one in 1878 and another in 1882 both in Co. Fermanagh.
Regards
-
Thank you! My ggf was John Reilly and my ggm was Mary Ellen Gilleece. I do have a copy of their marriage certificate. They were married Feb 19, 1882 at the Chapel at Knockninny. According to the entry, Mary Ellen's father was James and John's father was also John. John Reilly senior was deceased at the time of the marriage. SO was James. Mary Ellen was 27 and lived in Aughyoule and John was 25 and lived in Drumrush.
What I have been searching fruitlessly for are their birth and death records. Or any other kind of records relating to birth, death and siblings. The person who did some research for me at Ulster Ancestry couldn't find any records that matched the information I had for Mary Ellen or for John exactly although he found records (in the Valuations) for Gilleeces and Reillys in the area dating back to 1829. There are three Reilly farms in Drumrush in 1829 but no John Reillys. There is a Peter, a Thomas and an Owen "Gilleese" all renting from a landlord in Aughyoule in 1862. And plenty of Reillys, which may explain how John and Mary Ellen met. Could be that John was originally in Aughyoule but by the time they married in 1882, he had moved to Drumrush. But with all of the information that Ulster Ancestry did provide me there is nothing that definitely points to either John or Mary Ellen's line.
Any suggestions for how I could proceed further? Thank you so much for your interest!
Valerie Campbell Ackroyd
-
Did Ulster Ancestry search the Derrylin/Knockninny Catholic registers at PRONI?
PRONI MIC/1D/78 Births & Marriages 1855-1870
There are 2 townlands called Drumrush in the area -
Drumrush barony of Lower Loughtee parish of Drumlane county Cavan
Drumrush barony of Lurg parish of Drumkeeran county Fermanagh
But there is a Drumlish in the parish of Kinawley.
The Kinawley Catholic registers are also in PRONI MIC/1D/79 and baptisms date from 1835-1881
-
Yes he looked at some years for Drumlane, looking for John Reilly. But couldn't find John junior's baptism although he found different children for a John Reilly with different wives. He said it was mixed up. And he did look for Mary Ellen Gilleece in Kinawley (Swanlinbar). I don't know why he didn't look the church register up in Knockninny?
Valerie
-
What was John Reilly's full address on the marriage certificate of 1882?
-
It just says: 19 February 1882, marriage solemnized at the Roman Catholic Chapel of Knockninny in the Registrar's District of Derrylin in the Union of Lisnaskea, Fermanagh, John Reilly, age 25, bachelor, farmer, Drumrush, father's name John Reilly [alive], farmer.
married
Mary Gilleece, age 27, spinster, housewife, Aghyoule [sic], father's name James Gilleece [dead], a farmer.
Again, thank you so much for taking an interest!
Valerie
-
I am wondering if Drumrush should be Drumlish which is in Kinawley parish? That means you would need to check both the Knockninny/Derrylin & Kinawley Catholic registers.
I think UlsterAncestry wasted their time in searching the Drumlane Catholic registers in Co Cavan.
Griffith's valuation [c. 1862] Drumlish, Kinawley, Co Fermanagh has a number of Reilly households:
Thomas, Charles, Terence and Edward Reilly are all recorded in Drumlish [4 of the 8 families recorded in Drumlish were Reillys!].
-
Drumlish and possible variants in Kinawley; what about Drumroosk? which could I suppose appear as Drumrusk
-
johnal52- Aghyoule, situated on the slopes of Slieve Rushen was a townland with a large number of people in the mid 1800 . Incidentally the landlord for the area was a Major Collins from Platin, Duleek, Co. Meath. I am aware of one family of McManus's in Aghyoule who's mother was Gilleece and the house was her home place. Aghyoule is in the parish of Knockninny, but Knockninny was formerly included in the parish of Tomregan. During the first half of the 18th century it was detached from Tomregan and became a separate ecclesiastical unit. The parish church is now Derrylin originally built in 1797, but in pre-Reformation times there were churches in the townlands of Callowhill and Knockategal both along the Derrylin to Ballyconnell road. The ruins of Callowhill are still very visible with trees and surrounded by a wall (along the road). There are two RC churches in the parish (Derrylin and Teemore built in 1893 with stone from Aghyoule). For postal service the townland is now in two, 'Aghyoule' and 'The Borrow'.
Kinawley parish includes Swanlinbar in Co. Cavan. The diocese of Kilmore covers virtually all of County Cavan, half of County Leitrim, three parishes in County Fermanagh and half a parish in Counties Sligo and Meath.
Drumrush is off the Yellow Road which runs parallel to the Woodford Canal toward Aghlane bridge and is in the parish of Drumlane, Staghall (the church was built in1846 in the townland of Kilconny)
Belturbet is in the parish of Annagh. I hope having the townland in the correct parish will help.
Also there were many families of Reilly's/O'Reilly's in Aghyoule in the late 1890's and some of them originated from Drumlane/Miltown area of West Cavan
-
Interested to read about a McManus family in Aghayoule; what date roughly was the Gilleece marriage?my husband has a McManus ancestor from the Burra. I don't know if the McManus/ Gilleece marriage is in his family. I have the birth around 1871 of his great grandmother Anne or Honora McManus in the Burra; she was daughter of James McManus but I have no mother's name for her.
Hope to hear more from you, my husband's mother was from Teemore, so we are interested in the families from there
LindeL
-
LindeL- I will check that out later but if you had relatives relating to McManus in the mid 1800's then it could have possibly been the McManus that I'm related to! The McManus in the Burrow spelt different way (Borough, burrow) originally the townland of Aghyoule-possibly divided for church reasons. The McManus of the borough side which I knew had 3 sons (Patrick, Hugh and James all born around the 1900-1910 and none of them married). Their father (I will check his name) married a woman by the name of McTeague .The McTeague woman was also a sister of my grandfather's (James Reilly) wife on my fathers side of family. Those McTeague womens father ( Patrick McTeague married to Bridget, were aged 70 and 84 years respectively in 1911) Patrick originated from what is now the Corlough/Corlaeehan area of West Cavan (previously in the Bawnboy/Templeport region). That McManus family had other relations going back to the late 1800's and early 1900's who ended up in Arva/Colinstown/ Boston. I hope this summary does not confuse without precise dates and names
-
Thanks for the reply; yes, I don't know enough about these families to be able to make sense of them! We haven't done too much on the McManuses, because they are just so prevalent in Teemore and around, and with the records available,it's just too confusing. Your information about the Burra being part of Aghyoule may help disentangle them. My husband's mother's grandmother was Honora or Anne (I have found both names) McManus from the Burra. She was born about 1871. Her father was James McManus, who seems to have been alive in 1893 when she married, but I can't find him in 1901 census. Now here is where it gets interesting. Honora or Anne's brother was also a James McManus, and I have a note from talking to my husband's mother, that this James was known as "the rector", and that he married into the Maguire farm in Aghyoule. I have his wife as Ann Maguire. So this could be a mistake on my part, getting the wife's name wrong and maybe not knowing which generation she was talking about, or it could a mistake on Mrs Lunney's part. I think it is very unlikely that TWO James McManuses married in to farms in Aghyoule, so can you help me decide if Maguire is right, or Gilleece, as per your information? I'll be quite happy to go with Gilleece, if you are sure about it. Sadly we can't check any longer with Mrs Lunney
-
LindeL- The McManus's of the Borough/Aghyoule (James, Hugh and Pat) whom I have previously referred to had an uncle who was called the 'rector's Pat' and he married at Corrabrack into a Maguire family (Corrabrack is not far from the border outside Belturbet close to Agalane in Co. Cavan. Another uncle of theirs went to Arva and had a son a doctor in Arva (30's 40's 50's) and another son a priest (ordained in 1917 and spent most of his life in Westmeath), another uncle went to a townland beside Molly Mountain (Derrllin) in Co. Fermanagh. The Molly McManus also had 3 sons; Pat, Hugh & James who never married -the Lunnys who were related, now own that land. The 'rector's Pat' also had a sister Aine who married at Aghintra into a Curry family. One of the old house remains on the mountain side which you refer to is on land owned by my brother. The McManus were originally moved from an area close to the Crom Estate probably around 1850's or earlier (they were also related to the Gilroys of Aghyoule who were my mother's side of our family). Lunny's/Curry's would also be related to us .
PS I have not checked dates from census so that could be confusing, however I do know a McManus who has a fairly complete family tree of the McManus ancestry and he was to give me a copy.