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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Pembrokeshire => Topic started by: Bilham on Saturday 17 July 10 00:07 BST (UK)
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Evening all
I'm looking for anyone with information on two families. The Laugharne family and the Griffiths family.
I have traced my family tree back to the marriage of William Laugharne and Ann Griffiths in December 1845 in Pembrokeshire. I can trace these forward and back to their births and christenings. I need help in tracing their parents. William's parents were John Laugharne and Grace but I can't get her maiden name and I can't find anything about either of them. William was a seafarer or at least a fisherman.
Ann Griffiths' parents seem to be William Griffiths and Harriet but that's all I have got.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Bilham
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this is a related thread:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,468005.msg3282287.html#msg3282287
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...........William Laugharne and Ann Griffiths in December 1845 in Pembrokeshire..............John Laugharne and Grace
I presume that your William & Ann Laugharne are those shown in the LDS ’81 census aged 60 and 61 respectively.
Would I be correct in believing that Evangeline Laugharne mrd Alfred Benjamin Jenkins in the Swansea Reg District in the 4th Qtr 1880.
As William Laugharne states in ’81 he was born at Dinas, and I note that a William Laugharn was baptized in that location in 1820.
The LDS website also shows a William Laugharn baptized at West Walton on the 04 May 1819 to William & Grace Laugharn. My own research shows no reason to doubt these two William's.
The majority of my own 1841 census for Dinas is so faded as to be unreadable, although I do note the Laugharn family there along with a William & Ann Griffiths, however this may well be total coincidence. I note a William & Lucy Laugharn at Walton West with their son George, by coincidence I note a Grace Laugharn was buried at Walton West in 1824.
You appear to suggest that William Laugharne mrd Anne Griffiths in the 4th Qtr of 1845, yet Free BMD does not appear to support this. In Free BMD there is an Eleanor or Mary Griffiths or an Anne Thomas as possible brides to William Laugharne but no Ann(e) Griffiths.
All I appear to have done is confused the situation, but at ever turn to try and pick up your line I have come up against a conflict.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Hello Orielbenfro
YEs, my William and Ann are the ones you have found and yes Evangeline married Alfred Benjamin Jenkins in Dec 1880.
Re William's christening yes I agree I think the LDS Williamm christened on 4 May 1819 is the same William.
Not sure about the 1841 census. My searches on Ancestry just give me one sensible hit which is for a William Laugharn living with Ann Edward in Newport so not much help. I guess this could be my William living with a different women (was this common in those days?).
The marriage bit is also confusing. I came to the conclusion that William's wife was called Ann Griffiths as I have Evangeline's birth certificate and this shows the mother as Ann Laugharne formerly Griffiths. Also Subsequent census records refer to William's wife as Ann. However, when I searched for a marriage record I only found the marriage in 1845 of an Eleanor Griffiths to a William Laugharne (mariner) and they then appear in the 1851 census in Newport with a daughter Mary Ann (2 Months old). I can't then find Eleanor in the 1861 census but we have Ann with various children including a Mary who is 18!! (William was on a boat at the time). I've tried LDS but can find no help there. It looks to me as if Ann and William were never actually married! Was this common? The trouble with this is that if this is the case the trail goes cold and I can't get further back. ???
Thanks for your interest, any help much appreciated.
Bilham
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I have jpeg'd William and Ann's mrge entry plus William's and his brother John's baptism, plus his parents Thomas & Mary's mrge entry.
If you want copies please drop me an email address by PM.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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my William and Ann are the ones you have found and yes Evangeline married Alfred Benjamin Jenkins in Dec 1880.
Relevant Jpegs for mrge at Fishguard and events at Dinas sent.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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I am fascinated by this thread as I have done quite a bit of research on the Laugharne family of Dinas and Newport, Pembrokeshire, some of whom were my maternal ancestors.
It seems to me that a bit of confusion is creeping in here because there were 3 William Laugharnes born in the North Pembs area within a few years of each other. You say in your original posting that your William Laugharne was born in Fishguard in 1819. There is indeed a William Laugharne who was a mariner who was born in Fishguard around that time. You can check out more details of his career at sea on http://www.welshmariners.org.uk.
Now the William Laugharne, corn merchant, at 39 Underhill St, Swansea on the 1881 Census was, I'm fairly certain, the son of Thomas and Mary Laugharne from Bwlchmawr in Dinas. My reason for thinking this is because in 1884 that there is an entry in the wills index at the PRO to the effect "Personal estate of Mary Laugharne, wife of Thomas Laugharne, late of Bwlchmawr in the Parish of Dinas Pambs who died 16th November 1866 at Bwlchmawr was proved at Carmarthen by William Laugharne of 39, Charlton Terrace Swansea, Gla, corn merchant the son the surviving executor. Probate being granted under certain limitations". Why he was so late presenting this will is another story..... I have never been able to find a baptism record for him, so I would be interested to know if anyone else has.
There's a third William Laugharne, also a mariner, who was born in Newport in 1819. He was baptised at Ebenezer chapel in Newport and was the son of John and Eleanor Laugharne of Pant in Neport. He is also listed on http://www.welshmariners.org.uk. He married an Eleanor Griffiths in Newport on 28th Nov 1845 and I have baptisms for two of his sons in Newport and a lot more information about the Pant branch of the family, if you do find this is the right one.
I think this all needs a lot more unpicking. Why did all these people insist on having the same names :-[ . I'm wondering if the shipmaster Laugharne, living at no 40 Underhill St was the one that you want and that Alfred and Evangeline were being put up next door for some reason. After all it says "visitor" rather than daughter by Evangeline's name.... just a thought.
I'm copying this to the Swansea list as I see that some of the thread is on there as well.
Good luck
Vivien
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Vivien
Although you posted this information some time ago I have only just joined RootsChat and note with interest your comment about the Laugharne family of Pant - John and Eleanor parents of William. My research indicates close connections with this family through Eleanor who was Eleanor Lewis before her marriage to John in 1817. William died in 1906 whilst living with the sister of my great grandmother and is buried at Brynmoriah chapel in Brynhoffnant Cardiganshire. My great great grandmother was Martha Lewis from Newport and she married Evan Jones from Blaenporth Cardiganshire in 1836. At the moment we have not been able to establish a direct link between Martha and the Pant family even though we have evidence of links like William Laugharne. We originally thought that Martha was Eleanor's daughter by an earlier marriage but this now seems unlikely having seen the Bishop's Transcripts for Newport recently indicating that Eleanor was a spinster when she married John Laugharne.I have detailed information about Williams brothers and sisters and their families but we have no information about Eleanor or Martha's parents or birth.
I shall be grateful for any comments you have on the above,
Bryn Eglur
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Hello Bryn Eglur :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Vivien has not been on Rootschat since January but hopefully has the same email address and will receive a notification of your Posting.
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Hello Bryn Eglur
I've just picked up the notification of your reply. I'm really interested in the research you have done and will reply more fully when I can look back at my notes on this branch. I certainly have quite a bit about the Pant Laugharnes.
Kind regards
Vivien
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Hello Bryn Eglur
I'm sorry to take so long to get back to you about the Lewis connection to William Laugharne. It's taken me a while to find out much more than you had already discovered but I have recently discovered an entry in the parish register of St Mary's Newport (Pembs) which partly answers your question. It is the marriage on 23rd January 1817 of John Laugharne to Eleanor Lewis and, unlike the entry that you saw in Bishop's Transcripts this clearly states that she was a widow. I have also found their grave in St Mary's churchyard in Newport, She died in 1865 at the age of 78 while John was also 78 when he died in 1872, so she was older than him and around 30 when they married. There was certainly a strong chance she would have had children by her first marriage.
I'd be interested in seeing any information you have on William Laugharne's brothers and sisters. I have a bit about Maria who married John Rowlands, mariner and deaths for Elizabeth and Mary but I hadn't found anything about William's own death until I saw your posting.
Regards Vivien
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Hello Vivien
Great to hear from you. Very useful news of the location of John and Eleanor Laugharne grave at St Mary's Churchyard at Newport. Been there but I did not come across the grave- will be visiting Newport in early September so I would be grateful if you would let me know approx where the grave is. I still can not find their death on the FreeBMD site to confirm year of birth especially of Eleanor. Yes I had come across their marriage in the Parish Record where she was entered as a widow so I now assume that the entry in the Bishop's Transcripts was incorrect.
According to my research John and Eleanor Laugharne of Pant were the parents of Maria(h) (1817-1897) who indeed married John Rowland with one child named John (1849- 1862) and lived at Glanrhyd, Newport. Their second child was William (1819 - 1906). I am still researching his marriage but I know for certain that he was living at Perthygopa, Penbryn Cardiganshire in 1901 with Eleanor (my great grandmother's eldest sister) where he is recorded as a boarder and widow aged 83 living on his own means and from Dinas. William died in 1906 and is buried in a grave close to my great grandmother. The third child of John and Eleanor was Ann (1821 - still alive in 1911 at Soar Hill) - she married David Harries, lived at Parkydinas and had at least 7 children- Ann (1846), Margaret (1848), Eliza (1850), William (1852), Maria (1854), Eleanor (1858) and Martha (1860). The 4th child was Mary (1824 - 1907) who did not marry and lived in 1901 at West Street Newport with Elizabeth her younger sister. The 5th child was Thomas (1826 but died at 4 months in July 1826). Elizabeth came next (1828 -1912) unmarried and lived at Pant, Penpark (1861-1891) and West Street in 1901 and 1911). The last child was John (1832 -1837, died aged 5).
I believe that my great great grandmother (Martha Lewis) when she married Evan Jones from Blaenporth Cardiganshire was the daughter of ELEANOR from her previous marriage but I am still without a firm record of her birth and a previous marriage record for Eleanor. That is why I am still very keen to get Eleanor's exact date of birth as I have extensively researched Parish Records in the Newport area.
By the way two of the children of Evan and Martha Jones who lived at Pantroliaid Penbryn married girls from the Newport area. One of these was Rev David Charles Jones (Jones y Boro, London) who is buried at Gideon and the other was John who married a Margaret Vaughan from Nevern and lived at Pencnwc. After Margaret's death John remarried and also went to live in London but is buried at Brynmoriah, Brynhoffnant where William Laugharne is buried.
I hope that some of this is of interest to you - please do not hesitate to let me know if you have any reason to doubt my findings.
Gilmour
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Happy New Year
To those of you interested in the Laugharnes of Pembrokeshire, I have been researching a small corner of them. The ones related to Thomas and Mary Laugharne of Bwlchmawr, Dinas and, in particular, William Laugharne and his wife Ann. It has taken me years, on and off, to get to some form of conclusion and I now attach a word document. Unfortunately I am sure there are inaccuracies but it is my best effort to date. Any additional evidence will be gratefully received.
So far I have not visited any record offices - I live too far away from any of the relevant ones although I may contact Kew or other maritime records offices to see what they have got.
I have tried to attach the fruits of my research to rootschat but the docs breach the file size limit to I am trying an alternative by including a link to "my" William Laugharne's page on ancestry. https://www.ancestry.co.uk/family-tree/person/tree/13043727/person/-40793827/Gallery?_phtarg=eHC528
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Thanks for posting the link to your research on William Laugharne, Ann Griffiths and the Laugharnes of Bwlchmawr. I was really interested to read your findings.
I have been researching a different branch of Laugharnes of Dinas Cross, descended from another William Laugharne, born around 1748, died 1832 who farmed Pant on the borders of Newport and Dinas. My main interest has been in tracing the families of two brothers, Thomas Laugharn/Larn of Ty Newydd, Dinas Cross (1800 - 1876) and Benjamin Laugharne/Larn of the Bridge End Inn, Dinas Cross (1802 - 1875). They were the sons from William Laugharne of Pant’s second marriage to Elizabeth James of Newport. Thomas’s son John married Benjamin’s daughter Mary and they were my great great grandparents and I have now largely completed my research on their descendants many of whom were mariners.
I believe there is a family connection between my Laugharnes and the Laugharnes you have researched . Thomas Laugharne of Bwlcjhmawr (b 1794) was the son of Thomas Laugharne of Hescwm Isaf (baptised 1745) who was in turn, the son of John Laugharne of Hescwm Mill and Mary his wife. I am fairly certain that William of Pant was a further son of John Laugharne of Hescwm Mill but there are gaps in the baptismal records for Dinas so this cannot be proved.
I can throw light on a few things. The interpretation of the handwriting on your 1841 Census record for Mary Laugharne is, I believe, Son y Fynon which translates from the Welsh as “sound of the spring”. I can also confirm that you are correct in thinking that the William Laugharne who died in 1906 was definitely not your William. He was born in Newport and was the grandson of William Laugharne of Pant from his first marriage. There’s some very useful research into this branch of the family in the posting from Gilmour above your latest post.
The “a&m” on the http://www.welshmariners.org.uk listing for your William Laugharne I think is an abbreviation for able seaman and mate. It was common in North Pembrokeshire for several members of the same family to serve on the same vessel. My great grandfather went to sea with three of his uncles on one of his early voyages.
Thanks again for providing this useful insight into your branch of the Dinas Laugharnes.
Vivien
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Hi Vivien
Thanks for your response. I was hoping you'd pick up my post and be able to access my tree. Thank-you also for your information on William's father Thomas. Where do you get this excellent information from? I'd love to see copies of source evidence (I'm not a lawyer but I like proof, it makes me feel warm inside - and I've seen so many dodgy unproven links that I don't want to perpetrate more than I already probably have :D).
Because of distance all I can do is undertake research online but you sound to be a little closer to Dinas! (And to understand Welsh).
My guess is that you have got so far back that some of these Laugharnes would have been fighting Napoleon. Wouldn't that be a great story to add to the trees!
Anyway, thanks for picking this up and for the information. More power to Rootschat!
Graham
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Hi Graham
Yes, I too like to view primary sources where possible. I visit Pembrokeshire regularly and have a working knowledge of Welsh, although not fluent. I viewed the Dinas Parish Records (MF 348) at the Pembrokeshire Record Office ten years or more back now. I noted the following entries:-
Baptisms
1742
Margaret yr Daughter of John Larn and Mary his wife was baptised yr 20th Day of November
1745
Thomas ? (entry very hard to read) son of John and Mary his wife Baptised on the 1st day of August
I added a note that bits of the next few pages appeared to have been chopped out
These records are also available on findmypast.co.uk
I have no death record for John and know little about him but I had sight of a copy of an indenture dated 1741. The original I believe to be in the National Library of Wales in the Eaton Evans and Williams collections. John Laugharne is mentioned as follows:-
“And also of in and upon all that Water Corn Grist Mill with its Appurtenances commonly called HESCWM MILL with its lands and appurtenances there unto belonging now or late in the tenure possession or occupation of John Laugharne his undertenents or assigns.”
Thomas Laugharne’s wife was called Mary (confirmed in his will of 1812) and I have a rough idea of their family from Dinas Parish Registers (MF 348 Pembs RO), although these records are incomplete:-
Maria baptised Apr 17th 1784, buried Dec 6th 1792
John buried Feb 6th 1786
Dinah and John,twins baptised Oct 3rd 1786, Dinah buried Dec 16th 1792
Margaret baptised 2 Feb 1788 (White book of Dinas)
Thomas baptised 13th June 1790 (White Book of Dinas), buried March 11th 1793
Anne baptised January 7th 1792
Thomas baptised Sept 1st 1793 (White book of Dinas)
Moses baptised July 6th 1797
The White Book of Dinas is a historical copy of original Dinas registers which no longer exist and I viewed it at Pembrokeshire Record Office. I am not convinced that all the dates in the White Book are accurate.
Thomas made a will (Episcopal Consistory Court of St Davids Library Call No 105.268) dated 19th May 1812 in which he states “I give the lease of Hescomb Isaf to my wife and sole executrix.” further on in the will he mentions his wife Mary by name. He also refers to his daughter Sarah Davies of Ty Rhose (now called Ty Rhos). His granddaughter Mary Davies and his sons Thomas and Moses Laugharne. Administration of the will was granted on 16th December 1822
Although Thomas Laugharne of Hescwm Isaf’s son Thomas appears to have been baptised in 1793, but his Master Mariner’s Certificate application has his date of birth as 1794
This Thomas Laugharne married Mary Lewis by banns in the parish of Dinas on 16th June 1818 (Dinas Parish records dowloaded from Find My Past) He is mentioned in the will of Mary Lewis’s father John Lewis (dated 21st July 1825) who left Mary land at Bwlchmawr “for the purpose of building a dwelling house thereon” Administration was granted on 2nd December 1829.
I hope these details help
Vivien