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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Topic started by: Lady Frances on Sunday 18 July 10 13:01 BST (UK)
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I am trying to find an orphanage called SMILIE'S CONVENT which was in Scotland somewhere. I understand there was a fire some years later which destroyed all documentation.
My grandmother, CHARLOTTE FRANCES DEVINE - aged just 2 years, together with her sisters was sent there after the deaths of both of her parents.
I understand that brothers and sisters were split up when entering the orphanage.
In later years my grandmother met and married my grandfather JOHN FRANCIS MC.LAREN who had also been sent to the same orphanage.
I should love to know if this is showing on a census return.
Can anyone help me please?
Thanks in advance.
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Hi Lady Frances
Welcome to Rootschat! :)
What date was grandma born?
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Thank you for your prompt response.
My grandmother was born in 1897 at 35 Charlotte Street, Glasgow, where the family lived.
Siblings:
Elizabeth 12
Mary 18
Edward 16
Kate 6
Charlotte 4 (incorrectly written as 2 in my Post)
Josephine 2
My great-grandmother was already a widow in 1901 at just 42 yrs of age. He name, Margaret Devine.
Thanks for any help you can offer; much appreciated.
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I saw that family - hopefully it narrows down the search to the Glasgow area - unless you know anything different?
Where were your grandparents married for example? Was it away from Glasgow? There's a chap who matches Grandpa's names in Edinburgh in 1901?
I will move this thread to the Scotland board, where the experts live!
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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There's a reference here to a Smyllum Orphanage - doesn't sound a nice place at all!
http://news.scotsman.com/topstories/Forgotten-orphans-of-Smyllum-laid.2461432.jp
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Smyllum operated at the right time - run by Catholic nuns - and only closed recently:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/24730762
No mention of a fire - but the records might have been kept by the RC Church elsewhere after it shut.
???
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Quote from Maggiemc Monday 28 September 09 10:35 BST (UK)
hi there, if your ancestor was in a poorhouse/workhouse in the Glasgow area then there is a good chance that you will find the information at the City Archives, Mitchell Library.
If you - or anyone you know - lives in that area you can go and search for free. If not the staff will do it for you and you can get a copy of any application for about £10. It gives a lot of background information about the family circumstances and family members so very worthwhile having. 0141 287 2910.
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I might be on completely the wrong track here, but interesting a memorial to the children who died there was dedicated by one Bishop Joseph DEVINE.
http://www.communitycare.co.uk/Articles/2006/05/18/54048/The-past-is-always-present.htm
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Thank you so, so much. I don't know how to thank you enough for the time and care you took in gaining this information. I had it spelled incorrectly, but now, at long last have the details.
The report makes interesting reading, as my grandmother's arm was broken by nuns in the orphanage, and it was broken for so long without treatment she ended up losing the elbow joint in her it. She could never write with that arm either.
I think they were treated so badly they knew nothing else. I shall follow the story through and see what is happening/ or has happened since the onset of the story about the sad little graves.
Edinburgh is not one of my searches (and I have been searching for a long time) Dundee is on my grandfather's side of the family, but Glasgow was my mother's. My grandmother's family (Craig) were very wealthy and worked as goldsmiths living and working at 168 The Gallowgate in Glasgow. It is currently closed phone shop.
I hope shortly to be making a 'pilgrimage' to Glasgow to investigate further and certainly will be calling at St.Mary's to see the tiny graves.
I did in fact write to Bishop Joseph Devine a few years back, but he certainly did not amend the spelling of Smilie's (sic) Orphange in his reply; it was from him that I was told about a fire burning all records.
One wonders...
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Well this was just an educated guess, so by all means consider it as an option rather than the only answer!
The 1911 census for Scotland will be out next year, so that might help you in some respect.
You should try to identify when Margaret DEVINE died - using Scotlands People - so that you will be able to match the family up in the later census.
In a way I hope that my reply is right though - don't like to think that there were lots of abusive orphanages around the county - those poor children!
:'(
There are certainly lots of records and forum discussions on the internet about the Smyllum - some "survivors" have been exchanging photos and other information, so they might be able to help you too.
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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Margaret Devine died in 1904 of liver cancer at the age of 45 years (although this is written as 42 years on the death certificate). I have traced many things connected with the family. It was the orphanage which was the 'wall' I hit.
Thanks again for your help, it certainly is an 'eye-opener'. I will look at the site mentioned and hope to find out more about that hell hole.
Bye for now.
Frances
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I received the letter from Bishop Devine in 1995 confirming that the orphanage was closed in 1970 and that any information contained was no longer available due to a fire.
Very intersting indeed (!)
Frances
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http://www.flickr.com/photos/29107395@N07/3572951138/
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Maybe not of much help, but my hubby is from Lanark , he thinks there were two fires at Smyllum but cannot remember the dates, it's an age thing.
Sorry possibly not relevent and we now live abroad, so not in the position to check with family quickly.
Good hunting
monica meg :)
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Thank you Monica.
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Hello Lady Frances.
Smyllum Park in Lanark was run by the Daughters of Charity. My brothers and I were sent there and lived there in the late 1950s and early 60s.
Regards
Agnieszka
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Thank you so much for your reply. My grandmother would have been there in the early 1900's so no doubt things would have changed. Were you happy there? How long did you stay?
Frances
I must say that everyone who has helped me with this enquiry has certainly been very helpful. Thanks to you all.
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From this link it looks like things were just as bad in the 60's. It also alludes to documentary evidence so some records must have survived.
http://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/opinions/2006CSOH93.html
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The link sums it up as I remember it all those years ago
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Thank you Sancti - Agnieszka, my heart goes out to you if you had to live in that dreadful way. One of my grandmother's brothers went into the orphanage and there is no mention of him afterwards. I have traced the others but not him. I wonder if he died there and is one of the 'lost' - one of the little ones buried in the churchyard without even the dignity of a death certificate.
I read that most of the nuns had died when the enquiry was made. Gone back to hell where they belong!
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What was his name and dob?
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We are decorating at the moment and all paperwork is covered by sheeting. I will come back to you on this.
Great site this is and the people friendly and helpful. Thanks for all help so far received. I will be back.
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Just noticed on the 1891 census it is described as
Smyllum Orphanage, Deaf, Mute, and Blind Asylum and Public Laundry
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I knew there were deaf children in there, because both my grandparents could 'sign' for the deaf.
Public laundry - the mind boggles!
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I think there was a hospital in Lanark that was also ran by the nuns so the laundry may have been associated with that.
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Hi all,
I hope someone can help me,I am looking for information on my birth mother she was in Smyllum as a child until she left at 16 I think.Her name was XXXX and she was born around 1928 so she would have been there during the 1930's and into the 1940's.
I am trying to find her if she is still alive and also my brother how was 3 years old when I was given up for adoption in 1958.I don't have much to go on really but I am giving it a go.
It was only today after chatting with someone that I came to the internet on googled Smyllum and I was very sad to read what went on there.Now I understand why to so much and I can see reason in a lot of what my birth mother did now.
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Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
This thread might be of use: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,261434.0.html
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Thanks for your reply Agnieszka,
I couldn't PM you as I am just new.I have always know my mother was in Smyllum but had never done any research and was out the country when all the investigations were going on.
I don't know where to start in searching for her or my brother.
Have left some messages on other boards, one which looks promising,well I hope so.
Now I know a little of what she might have gone through is making me more determined to find out what happened to her.
Please point me in the right direction if you can .JJx
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very few childhood memories...smyllum park ????
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Hi Lady Frances,
Just an additional bit of information. It may be of no relevance. There was a Williiam Smillie Memorial Hospial in Lanark. (I was born there in 1954). To the best of my knowledge it had nothing to do with Smyllum. It has also been demolished and replaced by houses.
Bill
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Hi
I can give you a direct contact for the person who holds the registers to Smyllum. My Aunts were there in the 1940s. The Sisters of Charity ran the orphanage and some were helpful with uncovering records and others were a bit sceptical...
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Annie
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Hello Annie.
I would be grateful if you would send contact details re Smyllum Park to my PM.
My brothers and I were there in the late 50s, early 60s
Thanks
Agnes
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my mum was there in the early 60's and has only started talking about it now. was wondering if anyone was still in contact with anyone else there.
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I left Smyllum Park in 1964. I may have known your Mum. You could send me a PM if you don't want to publish info openly
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can't find anything to pm you. are you able to pm me so i can then reply to you. x
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Hi,
To use the Private Message service (PMs) to be able to exchange personal emails, just click on the small green scroll under a member's name on the l/h side to access this service.
Monica :)
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Hi Can anybody help me?
I have read most of the messages below and they are all around the 2010 year and I'm hoping some of you are still logging in here.
I have only just found this site and am unfamiliar with how to use it and so cannot directly reply to any of the messages... Arranroots you appear to be so knowledgeable I would really like to hear from you.
Basically my mother was in Smyllum until she was adopted in 1946 when she was nine years old. Mum is 73 now and has never had the courage to search for her birth mother and she would really like to find her but we don't know where to begin??
Before I start paying out lots of money to join birth certificate sites with no security I thought I would try and contact someone who may be able to help.
Mums name was Teresa Ann Sheridan and her birth mother was called Catherine Sheridan, she was baptised in Edinburgh by a Jesuit priest, her godmother was called Angela Platter. It was the baptismal certfificate that gave her this information but the priest kept it when she married in 58.
Can anyone help as to where to start? please
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Her birth looks to be on SP
You can order a copy of it for £12
I think it will be very hard to trace her mother but the catholic archives may help if the adoption was organised through the RC church
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Blimey
How can I thank you, I am having to push back the tears.
Do I just google scottish people? is it a website?
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How do I order a copy please? Sorry I am very niave
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I have sent a personal message
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annypanny i also am looking for access to the registers from my time at Smyllum, i was there 17th November 1976 until 10th July 1978 very little is known from my time there and require some details. i was only 8 months old when i went in, i am trying to find out details about my time there. Billy
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Hello Billy. If you would like some info re your query send me a pm and I will reply. Agnieszka
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Thanks for the reply, i will PM you.
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:)
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agnieszka a PM has been sent.
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Read here about the 26 French orphan girls evacuated by HMS VENOMOUS from Boulogne on the 22 May 1940 who spent five years at Smyllum Orphanage with their own French sisters and teachers: http://www.holywellhousepublishing.co.uk/Boulogne.html
Moderator comment - photographs removed to prevent possible copyright infringement , the photographs are available in the link[/blue]
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I have been sent the death certificate of Louise Langlois who died aged 21 in January 1945 and is buried at Lanark.
She had lost both her parents and as a girl of 15 was one of the 26 French orpahns evacuated from Boulogne by HMS VENOMOUS on the day before the city fell to the Germans.
I would be very interested in hearing from anybody who remembered the orphans at Smyllum.
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The link sums it up as I remember it all those years ago
I was in this dark place as well between 1968/1974 6yrs of my life Ruin Have no good memories that I can think of just cruelity and angry for the way I was treated If anyone wants to PM me I would be grateful as you know our minds are just messed up because of what happen in there WILLIEG
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IS THERE ANYBODY OUT THERE WHO CAN HELP ME TRACE SOME OF THE CHILDREN WHO WHERE IN SMYLLUM PARK HOME BETWEEN 1968/1974 THESE 6YRS I SPEND IN THERE ARE BLANK OUT OF MY MEMORIES
YOURS FAITHFULLY WILLIE
PM WITH ANY HELP I WAS TOLD THERE WAS A FIRE AFTER I LEFT 1970 DONT NO IF THIS TRUE CAN ONLY REMEMBER A COUPLE OF NAMES NO FACES
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IS THERE ANYWHERE I CAN CHECK OUT IMFORMATION FROM MY PASS IN THIS HOME AND HELP ME PUT MY MIND AT REST OR ANY OTHER SITES I CAN LOOK UP WILLIEG THANKS AGAIN
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I thought readers might like to know that two of the French "children" who were rescued from Boulogne on the 22 May 1940 and spent five years at Smyllum Orphange returned to Lanark this year.
You can read about their visit & see some of their photographs at: http://www.holywellhousepublishing.co.uk/Boulogne.html
They left Boulogne with the nuns and teachers who looked after them at the orphanage in Boulogne and spent five happy years far away from the war.
But they knew that some of the other children at Smyllum were not so fortunate ...
Read here about the 26 French orphan girls evacuated by HMS VENOMOUS from Boulogne on the 22 May 1940 who spent five years at Smyllum Orphanage with their own French sisters and teachers: http://www.holywellhousepublishing.co.uk/Boulogne.html
Moderator comment - photographs removed to prevent possible copyright infringement , the photographs are available in the link[/blue]
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Thanks for any help that anybody can give here. I know this is a hard subject for people to talk about.
I just want to put my mind at rest so I can get on. Anyone wants PM please don't hesitate, I am waiting to anwer any queries if I can.
WillieG
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Willie you could try contacting this website
http://www.incas.org.uk/memorialhistory.html
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http://www.incas.org.uk/burialslanarkcemetery.pdf
I am unsure about the comments in the end column 'Not found in Scotland'
I checked one of the names on SP death index
1870 CULLEN MARY JANE Female aged 19 LANARK /LANARK
I checked one of the names without the same comment
Euphemia Monaghan
The date of death and age is correct and the cause of death was Scarlet fever 3 days as certified by the doctor
No parents names recorded but the 1871 census gives the place of birth as Caithness
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If anyone with experience of Smyllum Park could read my post it would be greatly appreciated.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=683885.0
Thanks
Kerry
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My name is John Mcsharry and I spent a year in Smyllum from 1972. Unfortunately I have a few bad memories and very few good ones.
I would like to hear from anyone who spent time in Smyllum in the same year as myself.
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Hello John. Sorry to hear about your experience in Smyllum. I was there for three years but it was before your time. I understand though some if what kids went through there.
Have you thought about contacting the Child Abuse Inquiry at
www.childabuseinquiry.scot
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Thanks for replying Agnieszka,
It something I've being putting off for many years. I know the year I spent in Smyllum has affected me throughout my life. I'll let you know if I can pluck up the courage to give them a call.
Many thank.