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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Pembrokeshire => Topic started by: willie79 on Sunday 18 July 10 23:52 BST (UK)
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Hello, can anyone tell me why my ancestors were living in the Tything barn at the time of the 1841 census? Was it still a tything barn, or had it been converted to accomodation? Also, occupations were given as "watermen", exactly what would that have been? Thanks in advance for any info, best wishes, Gwyn
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Perhaps they were early Naturists ;D
You can stay there and bare all these days:
http://www.relaxnude.com/TythingBarn.html
Seriously perhaps the current owners could tell you?
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Ha Ha, yes, been all through that, quite a shock when I Googled it!!!! i imagine the barn was demolished after 1841, as there is no census listing for it in 1851, so I doubt that the present owners would know much. I was hoping for a local historian to have some ideas about it. Thanks for your interest, regards, Gwyn
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The Barn had probably been converted by 1841 as the Tithe Commutation Act (1836) commuted tithes to rent-charges instead.
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Right! yes, that makes sense. I did wonder how approx. 20 people, (2 families) were living in a barn! Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "were you born in a barn"!! I did wonder whether it may have been the local Poorhouse, a forerunner to the later Workhouses. I hope not, they were my family after all!
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Waterman occupation - definition:
Someone who worked in the transportation industry, specifically someone who transported passengers from docked ships to the quayside. See also Mariner, Sailor, Boatman, Able Seaman, Seaman.
Perhaps he took people across the Cleddau or the Carew River as there would have been no bridges?
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You are probably right! Would have expected them to have been called ferrymen or bargees or maybe sailors, bit strange to call them watermen. The name implies supply or removal of water! But given we are 150+ years on, titles and names change.
I have looked at several websites with photos of Carew Tything Barn campsite and there was one photo of what appeared to be a ruined cottage, but it was too small to be a barn! Other than that, the owners are advertising 2 holiday cottages, but there are no pictures of them. I did wonder whether they may have been the barn, converted into dwellings. I suppose I will have to take my rags off and go and have a look!!
I think I will go with your first suggestion and give the owners a ring and ask them. If anyone knows, I guess they would, many thanks for your interest, regards, Gwyn
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Gwyn,
Probably Waterman is about right as sailor or ferryman may be too grand :P
This site for old occupations gives this defintion of Waterman:
Boatman who plies for hire - usually on rivers
http://rmhh.co.uk/occup/w.html
May even have been the little coracles you still see in some parts of Wales.
Sometimes there would have been a bell at the edge of the river and people would ring for the chap to come and row them across.
After 1852, when the railway arrived at Carmarthen, people came from South Wales valleys to Ferryside by train, and were then ferried across the Towy Estuary to Llansteffan for holidays. And there was another ferry to cross from Llansteffan to Laugharne.
There was still a ferryman at Laugharne when Dylan Thomas lived at the boathouse.
Apparently in 1850s there was a public house at West Williamston and Lawrenny locals forded the river to get there because their pub was closed!
http://www.experiencepembrokeshire.com/history-archaeology/community-heritage/lawrenny
Hope you are lucky with the owners. Are you going camping there? :P
Morgan
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It was the Tythe Tax that was converted not the the Tythe Barn, which would have been surrounded by cottages(hovels) of the supporting labourers at the time, probably paid by the Vicar out of his Tythe Tax's.
If you have no luck else where ~ I can check out the 1837-41 Tythe Map of Carew which I think is still at the Rec Off, find(jpeg) the location and advise you accordingly. If by chance the map is not there then it will most definitely be at the NLoW and/or Kew Gardens(TNA).
There where many rowboat ferries across the Cleddeau and its estuaries, with more than a few lives lost in crossing accidents. There was also the trading boats up and down the river not least the earliest ever welsh international coal export from Cresswell Quay down the river.
Of all the times I ride out through Carew I never realised there was such a Nudist Camp, oh how reading this posting brought back vivid visions of my wife and I in West Berlin.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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For your interest I have jpeg a copy of the 1839 Tythe Map of Carew Tythe Barn.
The down side is that the copy held by the Rec Off is a hand drawn copy of the original without the full details of the original, for that you will need to visit the NLoW or Kew.
If you wish a copy of what I have please drop me an email address by PM.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Tything Barn is an old oyster farm.
Maybe your ancestors were working there at the time.
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Tything Barn is an old oyster farm.
Don't know where that comes from, its about as far from the correct description od each other as one could get.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Well it is 100% correct, ask the present owners.
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Hi Gwyn,
Have just come across the RootsChat site.
I can't supply any info in reply to your queries but interestingly my wife's family were living at the Tything Barn in the 1841 census. Names were Thomas and Sarah Williams. Any possible connection.
Cheers
David
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Hello David :)
Welcome to Rootschat!
Gwyn has not been online since July 2010 but hopefully if he still has the same email address he will receive and update on this thread and will be able to reply before too long.
It looks as if your wife may be related to Gwyn! There seem to be 3 families listed at Tything Barn in 1841 - Robertsons, Adams, and Williams. Thomas Williams occupation was Waterman, as in Gwyn's original post.
Good luck with your research
Morgan
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Hi David, yes, it looks like we may have people in common, could you give me some more details, please? Your location and names would help. Regards, Gwyn Williams
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OK, Gwyn and David, :)
You both need to make 2 more posts and then you can exchange Personal Messages (PMs) off forum. New members must make at least three postings before being allowed to use the PM facility. See Help-Page: http://www.rootschat.com/help/pms.php
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Many thanks for that info, Morgan! I would not have known that! Guess this is the first of the required posts. Will post again shortly! Again, thanks for your help and interest, regards, Gwyn
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Thanks Morgan. I was a bit confused to receive Gwyn's second message but all is clear now.
Hi Gwyn. My wife's line appears to go directly back to Thomas Williams via his son Thomas Williams - both in the 1841 census at the Tything Barn - and his son George. Any links so far?
Regards
David
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Hello David, Many thanks for your reply. This stuff is complicated, isn't it?
All routes seem to lead me to the Tything Barn at Carew. To answer your original question quickly, yes, there are definite links. Your Thomas's brother was Lewis, who was my GGGGrandfather. That then makes Thomas your Wifes GGGGrandfather, am I right? What relation that makes us nowadays is beyond me!
Sadly, I can find no record in the 1851 census of the family. I imagine they had vacated the Tything Barn. I have a marriage certificate for Lewis dated 1850, the address given is Carew Lane, which still exists.The certificate also lists his father as Thomas Williams, labourer.
Lewis's son, again Thomas, then moved to Llanharan, near Bridgend and married Anne Davies. Their first born son was named Lewis! and was my Grandfather. The rest of the children appear to have been named after Thomas's parents and siblings!
The census returns from Llaharan has Thomas as born Carew circa 1850-51. I have searched for birth records for the time, but there are so many Thomas Williams's! I have failed to find a birth reference for him, not helped by the fact that the early records did not have the parents names.
However, having found a family that have all of the names which have been handed down through the generations, at the relevant times in the areas I expected to find them, I am 90% sure I have found them!
Interestingly, my middle name is Lewis, as is my Fathers!
We are living in the Valleys of Gwent, in Crumlin. I hope this gives you some insight into the family, look forward to hearing from, Kind Regards, Gwyn Lewis Williams.
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So, no reply from David yet! Perhaps his wife has told him not to bother with us, she may have found out that we are the "Black Sheep" side of the family!
Seriously, my Dad has told me many times that there was a tremendous "bust up" in the family many years ago. He has no knowledge of why or when, but the rumour has been handed down through the gererations. I wonder if there is any truth in it?
Come on, David, put me out of my misery!
Regards to all, Gwyn
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Hi Gwyn,
Nothing personal in my delay in replying, neither my wife or I were aware of any bust up or any black sheep in the family, but she is very nosey and would like to know more!
The delay was as a result of me purchasing Ancestry's Family Tree software, which also gave me a free subscription for 6 months. I waited to install it and try to find some more info about Lewis for you but have failed so far. I did a house by house check of Carew in the 1851 census and the Tything Barn does not even get a mention; perhaps it was vacated completely.
Eira, my wife's family stayed in Pembrokeshire a bit longer than your side but her grandfather John (Jack) Williams and his wife moved up to Maesteg, for work we believe, but did not stay long and moved to Pembroke Dock. Members of the family are still there. Oddly, she married someone from Maesteg, not through the family being there, and they eventually retired to Pembroke Dock.
We visited Pembroke recently and went to Pisgah Chapel, Cresselly, where John Williams and Mary Picton were married in 1905, and found the graves of other members of the family there - in particular George and Eliza Williams and their sons.
Apologies for not replying sooner. If you need any help looking something up just let me know. We will be away for a few days and internet access may be a little "intermittent."
Cheers
David.
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I found the address Barn, Carew on 1851, with 3 families living there, including Thomas Adams who was there in 1841:
Thomas Adams, Head, age 48, Limestone Quarryman
Martha Adams Wife age 54
John Adams Son age 16 Blacksmith's Apprentice
Mary Thomas Servant age 14
James John, Head, age 31, Bargeman
Sarah John Wife age 33
Mary John Dau age 5
Martha John Dau age 4
Thomas John Son age 2
Thomas Williams Nephew age 9 months
George Williams Head age 30 Bargeman
Eliza Harts Servant age 14
HO107 Piece 2476 Folio 199 Page 3
Next address on enumerator "walk" is Williamston Park.
Kind Regards
Morgan
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Well spotted Morgan. I totally missed the change of name from the Tything Barn to Barn. Many thanks for your efforts.
David
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Hello;
I've just come across this post as I've started researching my family history. My family are the Robertson's that lived in Tything Barn at the 1841 census, can't find any trace of them in the 1851 census, any suggestions on where they could've gone?
Thanks
Alex
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Hi Alex,
I have taken a brief look at this and am as mystified as you seem to be. There is the record of the death of a William Robertson in Pembs in the Jan - Mar quarter 1849, when your William would have been 69, which could explain his absence from the 1851 census. The strange thing is that I can find no trace of Elizabeth or any of the children in the 1851 census returns for the UK let alone Wales.
I have also searched the Ancestry Public Member Trees but can find no one else researching William. This is sometimes a useful route to follow. I also drew a blank looking in familysearch.org
I am just about to go on holiday for a couple of weeks but would be happy to try to help you and search a little more on my return.
David
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Thank you very much David,
much appreciated and enjoy your holidays
Alex