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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Dublin => Topic started by: sararvella on Tuesday 20 July 10 20:07 BST (UK)
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Hello,
Have been informed from one of the ancients in the family that one of my g-g-g-g-greats, a Francis/Francois de Pothonier b 1783, escaped from France with a brother who then married in to the Sligo family of Ireland, as in Lord Sligo. I have found the connection between Sligo and de Pothonier, and there does seem to have been a marriage between a grand daughter (frances Mahon) the Lady Anne Browne, a daughter of the first Lord Sligo. However, I'm trying to see if I can't work my way backwards and find out if they are in fact related to my ancestor, there appears to have been a Mons. A de Pothonier arriving in Dublin from Paris in about 1825, information gleaned from Irish news papers, he appears to have set himself up teaching french, and a few years on there's a blurb about his wifes death, leaving him and three children.
Would appreciate any information regarding his first name, birth, death, childrens names or wife...really anything at all!!
Thank you!
Sara
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Also threads on Tyrone and Mayo boards-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=469462.new#new
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,469457.msg3295241.html#msg3295241
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from Pettigrew & Oulton 1834 :
33 Gloucester Street Upper, Dublin
Monsieur A. De Pothonier - prof. of the French and Italian languages
Same details are listed in 1840.
He's also listed in Thom's 1848 at number 34 with an occupation of 'prof. of the French and Italian languages and scholastic agent'
I dont see any De Pothonier listings in the trade's index of Thom's 1850 or 1852.
He is not listed in the 1863, but there is an Emily & Florence De Pothonier listed at 40 Gt. Brunswick St, and occupations of 'profs. of piano, Italian and French'
There's no sign of any De Pothonier listings for Dublin in earlier directories - Treble Almanac/Wilsons directory (1829), Pigot's (1827)
Shane
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I cannot see any De Pothonir listed in the Peerage of Ireland.
A term used for nobility,created by the English in there capacity of Lord.
This creation came to an end in the 19th century.
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you may already have this but just in case it's of interest :
the 1891 census for Hampshire, England has a 75 year old A N De Pothonier, born Ireland. Son Alex (born Alexandria)
He's there in 1881 with wife and 2 children
4 Manor Rd, Twickenham. Middlesex
Alec. N. De Pothonier, 62, Ireland, married, ship broker
Fanny C. De Pothonier 63
Alec. J. De Pothonier 36
Sidney M. De Pothonier 25
The 1861 census has him born in Sligo
A N De Pothonier, 43, Sligo Ireland
Spouse's name: Fanny C E
the 1871 census for England has a number of De Ponthier's visiting a house
Frances De Pothonier 55 Born Galway
Charles De Pothonier 25 Born Alexandria, Egypt. New York merchant
Sidney De Pothonier 16 born Middlesex, England
Madeline De Pothonier 19 born Middlesex, England
Scandan De Pothonier 53 Born Sligo
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Cheers for the information,
I'm trying to organize everything on paper and see where it gets me, still have a giant mystery if they're at all related to mine or not! Will continue to trawl and see what I come up with, nagging this mystery.
Thank you!
Sara
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I wonder if quite a satrical article in Freemans Journal July 1842 will solve the link of Pothonier to 'Lord' Sligo. To condense it:
Headed Romance in Real Life, it tells the story of a wealthy widow in a western county of Ireland who lived with her daughter. Amongst those educating her daughter was a young man, having a foreign name but believed to be a native of Ireland who taught the daughter music. He wished to marry the daughter but her mother said it needed time (and was also worried about the disparity in wealth)
The couple parted - young man went overseas and made money. He went back and asked again to marry daughter. Permission again refused. The young couple eloped to England with the help of the man's married sister. The young lady's male relatives followed her to London but the couple had already married "the bird had flown".
It finishes by saying "As the matter is finally arranged and further secrecy is unnecessary we may relieve public anxiety by stating that the lady is the daughter of the late Dean Mahon and the cousin of the late Sir Ross Mahon and the gentleman the son of M. Pothonier of Gloucester Street".
(Sir Ross Mahon was 2nd baronet of Castlegar and Dean James Mahon was dean of the diocese of Dromore.)
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That's brilliant! The daughter, was a Fanny Mahon, and a great grand daughter of the first Lord Sligo. The Pothonier was Alexander Napoleon de Pothonier and from what I can gather made his fortune through ships and Alexandria. Interesting it says he had a married sister, wonder who? I wish I knew his father as he is the crux to this mystery. It would fit that his father was the previously found Pothonier and music and language teacher would it not? And that Emily and Florence Pothonier, also found working as music and language teachers were his children as well?
I take it there is no way to research births/marriages/deaths for Ireland??? I've been looking for weeks now and come across very little that would help!
Thank you!
Any chance for a link to that article?
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Civil registration of births, deaths and Catholic marriages in Ireland started in 1864 and from 1845 for all other marriages. See Introduction to Irish Records-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html
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Well his father must be M. Pothonier of Gloucester Street. I'll see if I can search by address. Sent you a pm
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the mariage of Alexander Napoleon etc to Fanny Charlotte Mahon is listed on the LDS site as 25th August 1842 in St Mary le Strand, Westminster, London.
His death is recorded in 1899, Stoneham, Hampshire. Good chance there'd be a will over at Somerset House.
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Hi,
https://books.google.fr/books?id=uFE4AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA413&lpg=PA413&dq=alexandre+napoleon+de+pothonier&source=bl&ots=MAAImwfqvn&sig=M7BeF8DTaHXSsBJFkfJO1MnB0YY&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjxnqmq2J_VAhXIK8AKHUgwApsQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=alexandre%20napoleon%20de%20pothonier&f=false
https://books.google.fr/books?id=xOZLAQAAIAAJ&pg=PA25&dq=de+pothonier&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjkpdnW2p_VAhWOHsAKHVgpAN4Q6AEIQDAE#v=onepage&q=de%20pothonier&f=false
Where did François DE POTHONIER come from ?
The South of France ?
One of my ancestors named Joseph POTHONIER was a native of Cotignac, Var.
Several POTHONIERS from that area left France because of the French Revolution
https://books.google.fr/books?id=sDTLfGpIFUIC&pg=RA1-PA102&lpg=RA1-PA102&dq=fran%C3%A7ois+de+pothonier&source=bl&ots=UZwvyMwySj&sig=DCdFv1h6Q0zYKEiFKQQEmCr1BMQ&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwium7jj4J_VAhWhLMAKHTitC-44FBDoAQgrMAE#v=onepage&q=fran%C3%A7ois%20de%20pothonier&f=false
Louis Victor POTHONIER, with three children, François Louis POTHONIER, homme de loi, his wife and two children, Louis Victor Sauveur POTHONIER, bourgeois, and also X POTHONIER.
Résultats de recherche
Bulletin de la Société d'etudes scientifiques et archéologiques de ...
https://books.google.fr/books?id=FHBNAAAAMAAJ
Société d'etudes scientifiques et archéologiques de Draquignan et du Var - 1923 - Extraits - Autres éditions
A émigré le 28 frim. II « cédant à la peur inspirée à tous les habitants •. Servait sur le ... Résidait à Marseille en l'an X. M3 n° 212 ; R. * Pothonier François Louis, homme de loi. 22 vend. III. Décédé à Soulhampton en l'an VIII. E4; Ml n° 78 ; M6 ...
I guess that those POTHONIERS where from La Seyne-sur-Mer (Var)
François Louis POTHONIER, avocat à la cour, was married to Marie Claire Christine MEGY.
In 1782, they have a son Jean François Nicolas POTHONIER in La Seyne-sur-Mer (born 02/AUG/1782 and baptized 03/AUG/1782) Frame 282 on 343.
Two years later, another son, Louis Frédéric POTHONIER (birth 01/FEB/1782 christening 02/FEB/1782). Frame 166 on 502. His godfather is Louis Victor POTHONIER, notaire royal.
In 1786, another son, Jean Baptiste Hilarion Léonard POT(H)ONIER (birth and baptism the same day 06/NOV/1786.
Sauveur Louis Victor POTHONIER, notaire royal et receveur des domaines du roi, got married to Anne CUPERLIER in 1773 (Seyne-sur-Mer, 12/JAN/1773). He is a son of the late Louis POTHONIER , notaire royal, and Thérèse MARTELLI.
Marriage of François Louis POTHONIER and Christine Claire MEGY in 1779, same place (26/OCT/1779). He is a brother of Sauveur Louis Victor POTHONIER.
Marriage of Louis POTHONIER (circa 1703-1767) and Thérèse Françoise MARTELLY in 1731 (Six-Fours 03/JUN/1731). Parents François POTHONIER et Clere VIDAL.
David
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some Catholic Pothonier's
http://www.rootschat.com/links/01kfq/
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Searching Glasnevin index i found the following burials
All just Pothonier
Margaret age 50 in 1840 X
William age 4 in 1841 X
Caroline age 17 in 1842 X
Frederick no age given 1835
Augustus age 12 in 1848 X
Henry age C ? 1839
Those 4 marked X still register when entering Gloucester St in address box
Alexander De Pothonier age 58 in 1847
i went through the alphabet for Alexander and the only letters that appear to be in his address are
E G L O R S T U cant think of any St with those letters some of which could be duplicated.
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
edited later
There might be a bad spelling on Alexanders address as it registers when i enter the spelling Gloster St
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I've come across Gloster St for Gloucester St many times.
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In the marriage record of Jean Joseph Marcellin POTHONIER, enseigne de vaisseaux de la marine, in 1810 (La Seyne-sur-Mer 25/APR/1810), his father François Louis POTHONIER is mentioned as dead in Southampton. Date of the event 2 thermidor an VIII = 21/JUL/1800. His mother is also deceased
Would it be possible to find his death/burial record ?
The carrier of Jean Joseph Marcellin POTHONIER in the navy :
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/LH/LH183/PG/FRDAFAN83_OL2206022V004.htm
In 1808, he is a war prisoner.
The heirs of Sauveur Louis Victor POTHONIER in 1826 :
https://books.google.fr/books?id=MLRCAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA117-IA14&lpg=PA117-IA14&dq=pothonier+%C3%A9migr%C3%A9&source=bl&ots=6l1p91zR8t&sig=df7-pZW6R0srZEj3wy6ch8bsMc4&hl=fr&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj0op7tsaDVAhUMJcAKHYlUA8YQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=pothonier&f=false
His son Sauveur François Louis POTHONIER married Marie Magdeleine Catherine EYFREN in 1807 (La Seyne-sur-Mer 08/APR/1807)
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Les sorcières
contredanses pour forte piano : dediées à Sa Majesté la Reine d'Angleterre /
et composées par François de Pothonier.
http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000367368
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Searching Glasnevin index i found the following burials
All just Pothonier
Margaret age 50 in 1840 X
William age 4 in 1841 X
Caroline age 17 in 1842 X
Frederick no age given 1835
Augustus age 12 in 1848 X
Henry age C ? 1839
Those 4 marked X still register when entering Gloucester St in address box
Alexander De Pothonier age 58 in 1847
i went through the alphabet for Alexander and the only letters that appear to be in his address are
E G L O R S T U cant think of any St with those letters some of which could be duplicated.
http://www.glasnevintrust.ie/genealogy/results/index.xml
edited later
There might be a bad spelling on Alexanders address as it registers when i enter the spelling Gloster St
Sarah Maria Rothe married to Alexander Pothonier died a widow in 1859
http://www.willcalendars.nationalarchives.ie/reels/cwa/005014883/005014883_00167.pdf
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Hi,
I know this is pretty much a 'dead thread' now but has been invaluable in my research for a tweet I was writing about Alexander de Pothonier. I thought it would be good to add this, to bring an end to the story as it were.
https://twitter.com/lukecoring/status/1150696427774971904