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Research in Other Countries => Immigrants & Emigrants - General => Topic started by: Sparkle170 on Sunday 25 July 10 11:55 BST (UK)
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Hi there
Hoping that someone can help me with passenger look ups for the Soutter family as follows:
William Soutter born 1861 (parents James and Clementina) - I am almost certain he went to the US
John Soutter born 1863 (parents James and Clementina) - not sure
Mary Soutter born 1864 (parents James and Clementina) - Disappears from UK records after 1881
Margaret Soutter born 1866 (parents James and Clementina) - not sure
Emily Soutter born 1869 (parents James and Clementina) - Disappears from UK records after 1881
Emma Soutter born 1871 - last known in the UK 1891 (parents James and Emma)
Walter Soutter born 1873 - last known in the UK 1881(parents James and Emma)
Alexander Soutter born 1876 - last known in the UK 1891 (parents James and Emma)
James and Clementina had 3 other children who I know emigrated to the US. They landed in NY between 1880 - 1882 and then settled in Cook, Illinois.
Many of the Soutter family seem to have vanished from the UK which makes me wonder if they followed their older siblings to the US. Clementina died in 1870, hence the change in the mother's name to Emma following James's remarriage.
All help is hugely appreciated.
Sparkle
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Hi
There is an Alexander SOUTTER coming back into the UK as follows..
Mr Alexander SOUTTER aged 57 Born about 1876 Arrived UK 23rd Jan 1933 from Durban South Africa into Southampton Proposed UK Address 235 Arbroath Road Dundee Occupation Pensioner
Alexander SOUTTER aged 60 Born about 1876 Arrived UK 27th Jan 1936 from Durban South Africa into Southampton Same UK Address and Occupation
Cheers
Karenlee
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This might be your Walter...
Marriage Register
St Saviour
Southwark
Nov 2nd 1902
SOUTTER Walter 31 Bachelor Labourer 5 Moss Alley Father = James SOUTTER Engineer
PHILLIPS Violet Florance Elizabeth 23 Spinster 5 Moss Alley Father = Samuel Isaac PHILLIPS Gas Fitter
Both bride and groom signed
Witnesses were Alice EPPS and Charles SOUTTER
Cheers
Karenlee
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John??
Marriage Register
Holy Trinity Newington
Southwark
11th Jan 1897
SOUTTER John 32 Bachelor Occupation hard to read 55 Union Road Father = James SOUTTER Engineer
BUTLER Rose Ellen 28 Spinster 55 Union Road Father = William BUTLER Occupation Unreadable
Both bride and groom signed
Witnesses were James SOUTTER and Olice Susan REES
Karenlee
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Marriage Register
All Saints Newington
Southwark
2nd Aug 1886
RICHARDSON Thomas 19 Bachelor Sawyer 95 Thurlow Street Father = Robert RICHARDSON ( Dec ) Salesman
SOUTTER Margaret Jane 19 Spinster 9 Graylands Road Father = James SOUTTER Engineer
Both bride and groom signed
Witnesses were Robert RICHARDSON and Emma SOUTTER
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Border crossing from Canada to USA...
July 1913
SOUTTER William Henry 52 Male Married Gluemaker Can Read and Write. Naturalised USA Citizen March 1891 in Cook County Illinois Chicago. English.
Last Residence Cook County Illinois Chicago
UK relatives address ?? SMITH 7 Wakeman Road London Final destination Chicago Illinois
SOUTTER Sarah Ann 48 Female Married Can Read and Write. USA Citizen. English
Last Residence Cook County Illinois Chicago
All other details as above
Also found...
Into Southampton October 1890 aboard the "Trent" from Buenos Aires
SOUTTER William aged 29 Machinist
SOUTTER Sarah aged 25
SOUTTER William aged 1.5
Application for USA Passport
Cook County Illinois
SOUTTER William born London England May 4th 1861 Father = James SOUTTER born Scotland now dead. Emigrated to USA from England Sept 1884 and resided 36 years uninterrupted in the USA from 1884 to 1920 at Chicago Illinois. Naturalised at Chicago Circuit Court 1892. Permanent Residence 7134 Sangamon Street Chicago City Illinois, occupation Glue Maker. Intend to leave USA aboard the "Royal George" June 25th 1920 to France and England to visit relatives in both places.
There is a photograph attached to this application and it was witnessed by his daughter Esther SOUTTER
Cheers
Karenlee
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Also Passport Application for Sarah A and daughter Minnette, with photos of both
Karenlee
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Good grief - how do you do it??!!
Alexander - yob is good but I am not sure why he would have gone to S Africa when other siblings went to the US. Also a little odd that he would be going to Dundee as family were born in Southwark, London, (although his father James was originally from Dundee). Anyway, food for thought...
Walter - yes, I suspect you are right. I had also found this record and I note that Charles Soutter (a brother) was a witness
John - yes, I suspect you are right. There is a public family tree on Ancestry.co.uk that shows John with wife Rose with correct parents.
Margaret - yes, I suspect you are right. Father's occupation of Engineer is right and also I see that Emma Soutter (sister) was a witness
William - hummmm interesting - The passport application details all match info that I have. If he left to travel to France and England would there be a record of him returning?
How could I get hold of the photos??
Thanks
Sparkle
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Hi Sparkle
I have sent you a PM with regards the Passport Applications.
Still trying to track down some of the girls.. they are always a problem what with change of name when marrying
Cheers
Karenlee
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I think that this might be William and Sarah Ann's daughter...
California Death Index
Minnetta Jane RUDDIMAN ( Minnetta Jane SOUTTER ) Born 1 Jan 1905 Illinois Died 22 Aug 1984 Orange . Mother's maiden name SMITH.
I have William, Sarah and Minnetta aboard the "Mauritania" into Southampton 25th Sept 1920.
Karenlee
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1910 United States Federal Census
Roll T624_279 Page 14B District 1397
Illinois Cook County Chicago Ward 32
7134 West 71st Street
SOUTTER
William Head Male White 48 Married 22 years Born England. Both parents born England. Arrived 1884 from England. Glue Maker in Packing House
Sarah Wife Female White 45 Married 22 years. Born England. Both parents born England. Arrived 1884 from England.
William Son Male White 21 Unmarried. Born Illinois. Both parents born England. Clerk in Packing House.
Ester Dau Female White 19 Unmarried. Born Illinois. Both parents born England. Telephone Operator.
Edith Dau Female White 17 Unmarried. Born Illinois. Both parents born England. Mail Order Clerk
Ernst Son Male White 14 Unmarried. Born Illinois. Both parents born England. Apprentice Machine??
Mary Dau Female White 10 Unmarried. Born Illinois. Both parents born England. No Occupation.
Minnetta Dau Female White 5 Unmarried. Born Illinois. Both parents born England. No Occupation.
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Looks like Walter and Violet weren't that lucky with children...
Walter Isaac J SOUTTER born 1903 died 1904
Walter Isaac J SOUTTER born 1905 died 1913
Baptism Register
St Saviour Denmark Park
Southwark
Walter Isaac James son of Walter and Violet Florence Elizabeth SOUTTER of 181 Southwark Bridge Road. Born AUg 29th 1903 Baptised Sept 27th 1903. Father's occupation Labourer.
SOUTTER Violet Florence Elizabeth died 1954 Southwark.
SOUTTER Walter died 1922 Southwark
So he did not go to the USA to live.
Karenlee
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Okay, the Alexander I found yesterday is most likely not yours... sorry.
There is an Alexander SOUTTER in Dundee on the 1891 Scotland Census... more likely to be this man that I found.
Start again then shall we ;D
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So you have Charles SOUTTER's marriage to Jane SHAW??
Jane died UK 1952 so they didn't go to USA either
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I can't believe the progress that you have helped me make!
From what I can tell:
Clementina went to the US in 1883 with her husband George Hunt
James and Robert went to the US in 1880
William went to the US in 1884
John Alfred - remained in the UK
Mary - in the UK until 1881 age 15 then appears to be missing
Margaret - remained in the UK
Emily - in the UK until 1881 age 12 then appears to be missing
Emma - in the UK until 1891 age 20 then appears to be missing
Walter - remained in the UK
Alexander - in the UK until 1891 age 14 then appears to be missing. I wonder if the South Africa migration that you found might be OK after all
Charles - remained in the UK
Kate - remained in the UK (she is my great grandmother)
Beatrice - died age 1 in the UK
As you say the female line is that much harder with the name change on marriage. If you happen to come across any more info that would be great. I had no idea I had relatives so far afield!
Kind regards
Sparkle
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You mentioned that James Soutter came from Dundee. Do you happen to have his date of birth and/or parents names? (I am curious in case there is any match with my own family who are also from Dundee and, prior to that, Brechin).
Elwyn
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James Soutter was born in Forfar, Dundee December 1834. His parents were James Soutter and Mary MacFarlane. James Soutter snr was born in 1808 at Perth.
If this matches your info let me know and maybe there is some info we can swop.
Kind regards
Sparkle
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No obvious connection. Thanks anyway.
Elwyn
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Hi,
My Grandfather was Norman Soutter and he had a sister called Violet Soutter born Janurary 1915. Also a brother called Wattie (so could be Walter) and a Nellie. Sadly we don't know much about the other siblins or their parents. We think the mother was called Voile Sorittio (although there is talk that she also had the name Phillips and there is some mystery surrounding this) and the father was either Walter or James Soutter. They lived in Southwark.
After reading your thread with great interest I am wondering if this is the same Soutter family.
I seem to remember talk of Violets mum having a sister called Alice who was an actress who had illegiamate children. Could this be Alice Epps who was a witness at the marriage of Walter and Violet? Could Voile have become Violet Phillips before she married?
I am very new to all this but would love to find out the truth. Norman Soutter never spoke of his roots and Violet, my Great Aunt loved all the secrecy behind it. She promised to tell us before she died but unfortunately never did.
Can any of you please help?
Michelle
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Hi Michelle
Looks to me like we are distantly related! The most recent info I have is from the 1911 census where Walter born 1873 is living with his wife Violet Florence Elizabeth (nee Phillips) and 4 children: Walter age 6, Nellie age 5, William age 3 and Marie age 1. Looks as though Norman and Violet that you mention were born after 1911. Their address was 5 Moss Alley, Southwark.
Walter eventually died in 1922 @ Southwark. Violet died in 1954 @ Southwark.
When Violet married Walter she was recorded as a spinster so she had not previously been married. I have not come across the name ' Sorittio' so this is as much a mystery to me as it is you! There are no records on freebmd with the name Sorittio so maybe a bit of a dead end?? The witness at their marriage was Alice Epps - I don't know whether this is a sister or not - have you looked at freebmd.co.uk to look up any births?
The parents of Walter were James Soutter and Emma (nee Undery). I do have some info on them which I am happy to share.
I love a bit of scandal so you must tell me if you unearth anything! I go on holiday tomorrow for 10 days so may not get back to you soon.
Sparkle
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Isn't this brilliant!
I have found out more in a day than my dad has ever known about his family in 68 years!!!
So yes, it seems like my Great Grandad was your Great Grandmothers sister!!
Walter and Kate had the same mum then? From looking back at the thread I am a little confused about Clementine, James first wife. Did she did in 1870? If so who is the Clementina you mention who emergrated with Hunt?
I would love any info you have on any of them. I love it! And photos? Karenlee is amazing with all the info she is getting!
When I began to tell my dad he still didn't believe it was the right family because he only remembers the later children of Violet and Walter. He didn't realise so many had died but when I read them out her did rememner being told of uncles that drowned in the thames as children. He also remembers going to visit them n Moss Alley and said it was a dark depressing place.
After Walter died in 1922 Violet remained in Black until the day she died. She was a tiny but very strong Italian lady. We have a medical card belonging to her that gives her name as Violie (or something) Sirittio (or there-abouts). We think the card may be lost unfortunately!!!!!
So the most likely outcome is that the name she was born with in Italy was that and she came over with her mother as a child. Then her mother married Samuel Isaac Phillips. I have no idea how we could find this out, do you?
So this is the Walter and Violet Soutter family that I know of:
Walter Isaac J born 1903 died 1903
Walter Isaac A born 1905 died 1913 (drowned?)
Florence Ellen (Nellie) born 1906-married Dennis Wise 1923 (went on to have a son killed in Arnhem during the war)
William Richard (Billy) born 1907 died 1911 (drowned?)
Marie Kathleen born 1909 -married Reynolds 1935
Lily R born 1911 married fiztgerald 1932
William J (Billy) 1913 married ? 1932
Violet E born 1915 Married Wattham and later Jack Walsh. Died 2005
Norman Arthur born 1916 married Annie Jones 1940 (my dads parents) died 1980ish
Wattie Ramsey born 1919 married Kendall 1945 Died 1981ish
Ronald born 1921 (my mum seems to think he died ages about 21 of TB)
The the dad died, blimey we don't know how lucky we are!!!!
Regards, Michelle
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Yee Har
Looks like you both got lucky... but please remember that we can't publish information about people who are/might be still living...... so maybe any further discussion should be done via either personal email or PM here on Rootschat..... that way the Mods will stay happy.... ;D ;D ;D ;D
So pleased that you have both found each other... if you need any more help... just yell..... ;)
Cheers
Karenlee
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Thank you! I'm new to this caper so any advise is welcome.
Even though I don't know all the dates, I do know that all of my great aunts and uncle have now died. Sadly thats why we are all a bit sketchy about this!
If you have any info or photos would you mind emailing them to me please? How do I give you my address?
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Michelle
See the little green scroll under my username...just click on that and you can send me a Personal Message... a PM... that only I can read....
Karenlee
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1901 Census England London Southwark
RG13/362/67/21
30 Moss Alley
PHILLIPS
Isaac Head Marr 51 Gas Fitter and Plumber Suffolk Bury St Edmonds
Christine Wife Marr 47 Devonshire Honiton
Chrisobel L DUTT Step Dau Unmarr 26 Hair Wig Maker Somerset Wiveliscombe
Violet F E PHILLIPS Dau Unmarr 21 Office Clerk London Holborn
Madeline R Dau Unmarr 19 ?? Labeller London Strand
Lilliam M Dau Unmarr 14 Errand Girl London Strand
Daisy G Dau Unmarr 12 London Strand
Cheers
Karenlee
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1891 Census England London Southwark
RG12/343/72/59
30 Moss Alley
PHILLIPS
Isaac Head Marr 39 Gas Fitter and Plumber Suffolk Barton
Christiana Wife Marr 38 Devonshire Honiton
Christabel L DUTT Stp Dau Unmarr 16 Theatrical Wig Maker Somerset Wivelscombe
Archibald R PHILLIPS Son Unmarr 15 Zinc Can Maker Kent Maidstone
Violet F Dau Unmarr 11 Scholar London Holborn
Madeline Dau Unmarr 9 Scholar London Strand
Lilian Dau Unmarr 4 London Strand
Daisy G Dau Unmarr 2 London Strand
Karenlee
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Archibald Richard C PHILLIPS born June Qtr Kent 1876
Marriage Register
St Saviour
Southwark
March 27th 1895
Archibald Richard Chester PHILLIPS 22 Bachelor Bricklayers Labourer 30 Moss Alley Father = Harry?? PHILLIPS Gas Fitter
Eva NEWPORT 19 10 Goal Street Father = Reuben John NEWPORT Dec
Witnesses were Thomas William PARKER and Eleanor Charlotte PARKER
Don't know why he said father was Harry... but it's def Violet's brother.
Baptism Register
St Columba Haggerston
Hackney
Florence Ellen daughter of Archibald and Eva PHILLIPS of 53 Fo?? Street. Born Oct 22nd 1904 Baptised Nov 13th 1904. Father's Occupation = Stoker
Baptism Register
Christ Church
Southwark
Elizabeth Christine daughter of Archibald and Eva PHILLIPS of 25 Bear Lane. Born Aug 1st 1906 Baptised Sept 9th 1906. Father's Occupation Stoker.
1901 Census England London Southwark
RG13/362/64/16
5 Moss Alley
PHILLIPS
Archibald R C Head Marr 25 Stationary Engine Driver Kent Maidstone
Eva Wife Marr 20 London Holborn
Richard R Son Unmarr 1 London Southwark
Walter J Son Unmar 2mths London Southwark
Karenlee
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Marriage Register
St Mary Magdalene
Southwark
June 17th 1901
William Walter SIMMONDS 20 Bachelor Carman 42 Hillery Road S.E. Father = William Walter SIMMONDS Carman
Madeline Rose PHILLIPS 19 Spinster 42 Hillery Road S.E. Father = Isaac PHILLIPS Gas Fitter
Witnesses were Charlotte Jane MOULER and Frederick MOULDER
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Marriage Register
St Andrew Coin Street
Lambeth
Aug 2nd 1909
William TREHERNE 24 Bachelore Draper's Assistant 12 Lambeth Square Father William TREHERNE Dec Engineer
Mary Lilian PHILLIPS 22 Spinster 12 Lambeth Square Father Isaac PHILLIPS Gas Fitter and Plumber
Witnesses were George TYLER and Daisy DRISSCOLL
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Not terribley consistant on official records this lot....
Baptism Register
St John the Evangelist Red Lion Square
Camden
Violet Fannie Elizabeth daughter of Isaac and Christine PHILLIPS of 3 F?? Road Born June 4th 1879 Baptised Sept 3rd 1879 Father's Occupation Carpenter.
Baptism Register
Holy Trinity Kingsway
Camden
Thomas Anthony son of Isaac and Christina PHILLIPS of 7 Denzel Street. No birth date given Baptised June 25th 1884 Father's Occupation Plumber. Thomas died June 1884.
Lilian Mary daughter of Isaac and Christine PHILLIPS of 7 Denzel? Street No birth date given Baptised Sept 15th 1886 Father's Occupation Plumber
Daisy Giovanna daughter of Isaac and Christina PHILLIPS of 3 Castle Court ? Rents No birth date given Baptised Feb 6th 1889 Father's Occupation Plumber
Still not able to find a marriage for Isaac and Christina
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Wondering if Daisy G married Joseph DRISCOLL 1909 Southwark?? There was a witness to a marriage by the name of Daisy DRISSCOLL.
Found this...
PHILLIPS Isaac and SMITH Christina married Dec Qtr 1877 Strand London
Don't know where the SMITH came from though. Might be an idea to order this marriage certificate as I am not able to see it on any of my indexes. Would also be a good idea to get the birth certificate for Christobel Laura DUTT... it might show something useful about Christine/a.
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Sparkle
Michelle and I have hijacked your thread... sorry... but I found this Michelle which might go someway to solving the Italian question..
1861 Census England Devon Honiton
RG9/1376/15/23
Queen Street
SMITH
Thomas Head Marr 40 Agricutural Labourer Italy
Elizabeth Wife Marr 30 Bampton
Christiana Dau Unmarr 8 Honiton Devon
Mary E Dau Unmarr 6mths Honiton Devon
1871 Census England Devon Honiton
RG10/2038/95/25
Queen Street
SMITH
Thomas Head Marr 51 Agricultural Labourer Italy British Subject
Elizabeth Wife Marr 40 Devon Bampton
Mary Elizabeth Dau Unmarr 10 Scholar Devon Honiton
Thomas Son Unmarr 8 Scholar Devon Honiton
William Son Unmarr 5 Scholar Devon Honiton
Walter Son Unmarr 3 Scholar Devon Honiton
Richard Son Unmarr 1 Devon Honiton
1881 Census England Sussex West Hoathly
RG11/1060/117/24
Sharpthorn House
SMITH
Thomas Head Marr 59 Labourer Italy
Elizabeth Wife Marr 48 Devon Bampton
William Son Unmarr 16 Labourer Devon Bampton
Walter Son Unmarr 13 Scholar Devon Bampton
Richard Son Unmarr 10 Scholar Devon Bampton
Karenlee
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Hey,
Thank you so much for all this!
You have been so so kind in helping me with this. I can't believe that in a matter of days I now know all this stuff about my family and its all thanks you you on the other side of the world!!!!!
My mum and dad didn't know any of this and still can't believe that my dad's aunt Violet was maybe not being as truthful as she could have been. Where did all the Italian come from. It doesn't seem like she was half Italian like we always thought. If anything the only one that may have a connection with Italy is her Great Grandfather Thomas Smith.
Thanks also for all the excellent copies you have sent. It's just so interesting.
Michelle x
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Hi Sparkle,
I know that you posted your request for information about missing members of the Soutter family some 6 years ago but perhaps you do not have all the answers yet.
I can help with:
"Mary Soutter born 1864 (parents James and Clementina) - Disappears from UK records after 1881"
Mary Soutter was my great grandmother. She is listed as a new immigrant to New Zealand in the "Timaru Herald" on 19 January 1884. Refer http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=THD18840119.2.9 [Run down the column until you see the headline IMMIGRANTS]. She arrived on the steamship "Waitangi" - presumably a day or two before the report in the "Timaru Herald". She is listed as a "general servant".
She had 4 children. Edith (1887-1981), William James (1889-1965), George Fergus (1891-1952) and Elsie Mary 1893-1982.
Mary's oldest son, William James, is my grandfather.
Mary's brother was William Soutter of JB Swift (Chicago) fame. He came to New Zealand twice to visit his NZ relatives. I never met him but my father and uncles (who were his great nephews) talked of him. I have an Aunty (still alive) who would remember him.
I am new to Rootschat and I don't know how it works. Seeing as we are "family" and I obviously have a lot more information, I would like to be able to contact you on a more personal basis. How does one do this?
Regards
Tasm8_001
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Hi I am also interested in the soutter family. I would be grateful to hear or fill in details of the following
James and Clementina
Mary Soutter born 1864
Edith (1887-1981),
William James (1889-1965), (my great grandfather)
George Fergus (1891-1952)
Elsie Mary 1893-1982.
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Hi to all the Soutter Family Researchers.
I realise this thread is 6 years old but as Soutter/Suitter/Sutter seems a hard name to find - I thought I could continue on this thread.
My Great Grandmother was Dorothy Soutter - known as Dolly. She married my great grandfather John Campbell on 4th August 1930 in Coleraine Registrar Office. Her father James was Dead, and her address is given as Ballindreen. She states her age as 30 years old.
I have been unable to locate her on the 1901 or 1911 NI Census. I have also been unable to locate a birth record for her.
She died on 7th July 1956 and is laid to rest in St Paul's, Kildollagh. As her death is advertised in the Belfast News Letter, I am assuming she does not originate from Ballindreen.
Any information or guidance would be greatly appreciated as I am at a complete dead-end with this search.
Thank You
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Dorothy Soutar and family found- http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=801735