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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Aberdeenshire => Topic started by: lyndyloo6 on Sunday 25 July 10 23:05 BST (UK)
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Can any one tell me where 1 York Street, Aberdeen was in 1872 please. Thank you.
Lynda
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There is still a York Street in Aberdeen down near the docks
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&rlz=1C1GPCK_enGB368GB371&q=1+york+street+aberdeen&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hq=&hnear=1+York+St,+Aberdeen,+Aberdeen+City+AB11+5&gl=uk&ei=47lMTM-VKIXw0wT1vfSECw&sa=X&oi=geocode_result&ct=image&resnum=1&ved=0CBoQ8gEwAA
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Gosh....just had a peep at thestreet veiw bit....amazing..... number 4 is a church and opposite that there is a very old building with loads of windows and bricked up windows. My gt grandfather was born at no 1 it seems.....wonder what it used to be....
thank you, Lynda
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Only one household listed at 1 York Street in 1881 - a ship's carpenter and family.
No 4 York Street was multiple occupancy: 10 households. There were 11 households in No 2 York Street.
Nell
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York Street was the home of Hall Russell's warehouses and works. They were a huge employer in Aberdeen from the late 1800s through to the end of the Twentieth Century, and I think the building with the bricked up windows was one of theirs (looks like it used to belong to an Iron Works in the 1860s, though whether it's the same building I'm not sure - see the National Library of Scotland digital maps at www.nls.uk/maps for historical maps).
The area down there has changed so much over the years, that it's hard to imagine what it would have actually looked like when it was all built up and not just industry, like it is now.
The churchy building was actually York Street School, as far as I can make out.
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Thanks folks,I have a birth certificate for William Bremner Ross, born 1 York Street, Aberdeen, on 17/08/1872. His mother was Isabella Ross. This has been a ong hunt for me and I was trying to find out who stayed there in 1871 census. I am not 100% sure that this is my gt grandfather, but there was the name Bremner listed on his death cert. Itis all really confusing. I sent for his registration in 1939 and it gave his date of birth as 17/04/1872. In the other census, I have him as being born in Aberdeen....kn, which I presume means not known.....it has been really difficult to track him down.
Regards,
Lynda
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I used to pass the old York Street School before it was knocked down when i went to Fittie.
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are you still looking for information on York Street Aberdeen
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yes please. I haven't been on here for a while but the great grandfather is still a mystery to me.
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You can see York Street on the !870-71 Town Plan at https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/395270/806182/13/100699 Change the zoom level.
Number 1 is at the corner with Wellington Street. (You can see the house numbers on the plan at https://www.old-maps.co.uk/#/Map/395270/806182/13/101329 )
With this side by side you can compare the old with the new. https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/side-by-side/#zoom=17&lat=57.14662&lon=-2.07966&layers=168&right=BingHyb
This is a street view of the school https://goo.gl/maps/92KzUNUE6vZXr38MA
Stan
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Thankyou for this. even now after all this time I do not have his birth certificate for sure... so I am going to use my self isolation looking...
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Thankyou for this. even now after all this time I do not have his birth certificate for sure... so I am going to use my self isolation looking...
I see a birth of William Bremner Ross in Aberdeen St Nicholas 1872, district 168.1 no 1121. Is this the birth certificate you have?
I also see a death of William Bremner Ross, mother's surname Ross, aged 0, in Durris 1872, district 256 no 7. If I were you I would look at this death certificate to see if it is the same William Bremner Ross, and possibly eliminate him from your search. In which case York Street is not relevant after all.
If he is, then what information do you actually have about your William Bremner Ross?
Which censuses have you found him in, and where?
In particular, in which year does it say "born in Aberdeen....kn"?
Where and when did he marry? Have you got his marriage certificate?
When and where did he die? And what exactly do you mean when you say "there was the name Bremner listed on his death cert"? Was Bremner listed as his middle name, or 'mentioned' in some other way, and if so in what other way?
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Hello,
I have just seen your reply. I have looked at almost every William Ross Birth Certificate in Aberdeenshire records for 1872/3/4.
This is a long complicated story so bear with me.
My great grandfather was known as William Ross. I have never found his birth certificate which has meant I cannot go any further back on this line. I have his Wedding Certificate. to Isabella Gibb in dec 1904 in Glenbervie. It states that his parents are Florence Smith and William Ross. This does not say that the parents are married. Williams death Certificate is registered in Croy in 1956 aged 84. His parents are listed at William Bremner and Florence Bremner ms Smith. various census have him listed as shepherd living on various farms. I have also noted that there is another male called James Henry who is witness at his wedding and also with him in some of the census,
any help is appreciated. Thankyou
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It could be you are looking for the wrong surname, perhaps he was illegitimate and you should be looking for William Smith. William Ross could be the man whom his mother believed to be his father.
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Can you tell us where you found William in the censuses? Does the marriage certificate state if his parents are deceased?
flst
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1881 census, William Ross aged 8, 24 Mains of Tillquilly, Boarder, born Aberdeenshire. James Henry aged 5 also there, born Banchory Terain. Also a Smith family there. No Florence though.
1891 census, Eslie, Farm Servant, aged 18, Born Banchory Terain.
1901 census,Little Barras Bothy, Kincardineshire, aged 28, place of birth NK
1904 marries Isabella in glenbervie.
1911 living at 35 Braeside croft Fettercairn, says born in Banchory, has 3 children.
his 1939 papers say date of birth 17/04/1872 and he is a crofter
1947 his wife Isabella dies in Laurencekirk where they lived,
1956 he dies in croy. His grandson Alex was 16 and he was sent to register death with a slip of paper with his details on it.
I cannot go back any further on this line as I do not know who his parents are for sure.
many thanks for any help.
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his parents were still alive but not married. Mother Florence smith and father William Ross. marriage certificate.
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You will note that the 1881 census is in Kincardineshire. If you could find William in the school admission records it may give you more information on his parentage. It should state his actual date of birth and also previous schools attended, if any, & also the name of the next school he goes to or the date he leaves school. This is very useful in tracing a person's movements between censuses. Another avenues to consider is to check the poor relief records to see if anyone claimed on William's behalf. The widow with whom he is boarding may have been paid by the parish to look after children. Hope this helps,
flst.
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Thank you. I will give this a try. where can I find the school rolls.
Lynda
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Aberdeen City & Aberdeenshire Archives have the school admission records (where they've survived) for schools in the north east. They can be emailed at archives[at]aberdeencity.gov.uk (replace [at] with @ when you email), but they're currently temporarily closed so may not be able to search the records for you.
They also hold surviving poor relief records, and will be able to advise further on these too.
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Their catalogue is online at https://www.aberdeencity.gov.uk/services/libraries-and-archives/aberdeen-city-and-aberdeenshire-archives so you can have a look and decide which items you want to see when lockdown ends.
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Thank you all. I am going to email Aberdeen Archives.
Regards Lynda
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Lynda, I remain ever hopeful that one day you will find the answers!!
Stay in there ;)
Monica
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Hi Monica...so do I...so do I...am in lockdown and now retired so I thought I try again...lol...it really bugging me...I have traced james henry who is on some of the census with him and was best man at his wedding...chasing the thought that he may have been related to o avail....but watch this space...for the nxt ten years....lol
Take care
Lynda
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I re discovered your old post today.... www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=322522.0
2008...it has been a while ::)
So the surnames we have re Willam are Ross, Smith and Bremner. Florence and William are consistent in both William's marriage and death certs. Just the surnames get mixed about.
If William was given up not long after his birth, it is not surprising that things were a bit mixed up for him.
Looking around again, I found this 1871 census entry:
John Smith 58 grocer b. Alford...Parents for them I think a William Smith and Isabel Cooper/Couper
Mary A Smith 51 sister b. Alford
Florence Bremner 20 boarder b. Edinburgh
Mary Mcgregor 19 servant
Jane Mcgillivray 43 servant
Address: North Back St Cottage, Forres Moray
Her birth is actually showing as Coloo Mooto Florence Bremner (this is from SP) ??? Born on 13 Aug 1850.
Florence married in 1875:
Florence Bremner and Jno. Stuart
Marriage: 14 Jul 1875 Cathcart,Renfrew
1881 entry for her post marriage in Cathcart, Renfrewshire:
John Stuart 40 shipowner b. Forres, Moray
Florence Stuart 30 b. Edinburgh
Charles Stuart 4 son b. London
Mary Am Smith 64 boarder b. Alford, Aberdeenshire...the same lady likely from the 1871 entry.
Ann Greenock 50 servant
She died just the following year www.findagrave.com/memorial/182947558. Also, http://libindx.moray.gov.uk/people/people_report_view.asp?REF_ID=NM176750
My main thoughts on this are, could this Florence have had an illegitimate child (William) in 1872 before her 1875 marriage. We have here the two surnames of Smith and Bremner and of course, Florence.
We still need to find a birth reg as always!
Monica
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Been looking around the birth index databases...once again, not seeing anything so far :-\
Monica
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Thankyou for this...I have tried to look at birth certificate to no avail,,, very interesting this is. I wonder where the Coloo Mooto comes from...I never met my gt granda..but most of the female line has jet black very dark hair...I have brown eyes but my mum and grandmother had green eyes...I am fairly dark skinned and my daughter frequently says how dark I am in the summer without even sitting in the sun for long...so it has been a family joke...my daughter thinks Iranian or something...lol
however there seems or appears to be a link with the names...I think I looked at this many years ago but must have shrugged it off...Alford rings a bell as we were up in Fuchaber a few months ago and I was saying to my son..I will check out the names now and let you know asap...lol
regards Lynda
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hi...did a wee bit quick look up on internet...The name Mooto...in the whole of Scotland there were only 2 families with this name 1841 to 1920 and they were in the Midlothian area...so am off to look at this name...just in case...lol
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This may be the source of Florence's first two names:
Clementina Bremner (born Millar), 1823 - 1857
Clementina Bremner (born Millar) was born in 1823, at birth place, to Archibald Millar and Coolo Mooto Millar (born Nahn).
Clementina married Andrew Bremner on month day 1849, at age 26 at marriage place.
Andrew was born in 1790, in Stirling, UK.
His occupation was Solicitor's Clerk.
They had 2 children: Coolo Mooto Florence Stuart (born Bremner) and one other child.
www.myheritage.com/names/clementina_millar
Monica
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4 He married (2) Clementina Millar #47886, 21 August 1849 in Edinburgh St. Cuthberts, MLN, SCT,15 b. c 1823 in East Indies,16(daughter of Archibald Millar #47888 [Surgeon] and Coolo Mooto Nahn #47889), d. 26 September 1857 in View Bank, Forres, MOR, SCT,17 buried in Cluny Hill Cemetery, Forres, MOR.5Children:51.ix.Coolo Mooto Florence Bremner #47887 b. c October 1850.52.x. Archibald Millar Bremner #54926 b. c April 1852.
www.brebner.com/uploads/bre04837.pdf
Florence's parents seem to have died in the mid to late 1850s (from the inscription at their grave www.findagrave.com/memorial/182947554). Brother Archibald in 1866 it seems. This is why likely Florence was boarding with the Smiths in 1871?
Added: Florence and brother Archibald show as boarders with John Smith and sister Mary Ann in Forres in 1861.
Monica
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wow...wow...so if she is the mother...that means the William Ross must be his father...but...depends on how he was registered.
also..there appears to be a gene in the mooto family that means they have short lives. My mother was 32.
she was Williams granddaughter.
when I look at the addresses in Edinburgh...they were part of the elite...
thank ou for this..i will try and look into it in depth...lol...
regards
Lynda
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With patience (which you have loads) there may be something to be found in possible school records as mentioned by flst and Archivos. We need at least a few concrete facts to add to the searches don't we.
May worth also checking for any possible poor relief applications, covering also his boarding out after his birth.
Monica
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yes we do need something solid. I would now think he has been a private boarder. I am also starting to think that there must be other relatives in the moray area...
my scotlands people is not letting me search due to something with settings..says not approved this site...so I need to speak to my son in law later tonight on phone...lol. New computer...no used to it yet. Hope you and yours are all well.
thankyou again
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Has anyone ruled out the William Ross birth in 1872 registered in Forres? As Florence was living in Forres a few months before conception there is a good chance he was registered there. Purely speculation, there is a potential father, William Ross, age 24 living in Sanquhar Square, Forres in the 1871 census!
flst
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Has anyone ruled out the William Ross birth in 1872 registered in Forres?
Son of George Ross and Isabella Tolmie, born 21 January 1872 in Forres.
According to the IGI there is no birth in Scotland of any child 1870-1873 to a mother named either Florence Bremner or Florence Smith.
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I can't see a reference on the birth index to a Florence for mother either, Forfarian :-\
Monica
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the only thing I can think of is that Florence may have been sent away to have her child. Perhaps a servant may have been sent to register the birth. I have a birth in Aberdeen with William Bremner Ross. Illigitimate in Aberdeen from 1 York Place signed by Isabella Ross, domestic servant...
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the only thing I can think of is that Florence may have been sent away to have her child. Perhaps a servant may have been sent to register the birth. I have a birth in Aberdeen with William Bremner Ross. Illigitimate in Aberdeen from 1 York Place signed by Isabella Ross, domestic servant...
A servant could have been sent to register the birth, but would have been legally obliged to state the name of the mother.
Has anyone yet bothered to check the birth and death certificates as suggested in Reply #11 above?
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hi all I have spent the morning looking at IGI births, the only one that I can find is the William Bremner Ross one...date of birth 14/08/1872 signed by Isabella Ross.
I have found his 1939 national register detail which give date of birth as 17/04/1872. Perhaps as time went on the numbers got muddled around...
There is no mention of the Bremner on it and he was the one that gave the details on this. I really don't know where to go from here. I will await my request from Aberdeen Council records and see if this throws any light on the matter.
I looked at the William Ross in Forres and they were a married couple so have discounted this one.
regards
Lynda
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HI, On his death certificate his parents are William Bremner and Florence Bremner ms Smith. I spoke to his grandson many years ago and he told me he was sent to register Williams death, by his mother Isabel with a note of his date of birth, occupation and who his wife was.
Regards,
Lynda
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I have spent the morning looking at IGI births, the only one that I can find is the William Bremner Ross one...date of birth 14/08/1872 signed by Isabella Ross.
Have you looked at the original birth certificate at Scotland's People? Was Isabella Ross the mother?
Have you looked at the death certificate of William Bremner Ross, aged 0, in Durris in 1872? Is he the same one who was born at 1 York Street on 14 August 1872?
It's quite important to do this, because if this William Bremner Ross died aged only a few weeks, 1 York Street is irrelevant to your search.
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Hi,
Yes I have checked this death out and this is now irrelevant.
The three names I have are Ross, Florence Smith and a William Bremner all on his death certificate.He is William Ross on his marriage certificate and his father is William Ross and mother Florence Smith.
He is William Ross on the Census 1881 to 1911. and aso on the 1939 National Register, his date of birth states 17/04/1872.
I know he was a shepherd and crofter in Fettercairn, Scotston, Fordoun in early part of 1900s
He had a house im Johnston Street, Laurencekirk, where his wife died in 1947. He then went to live with his daughter Isabel in Croy, where he passed away. He is buried in Laurencekirk Cemetry.
This is what I know about William, but I cannot find his birth certificate.
Regards,
Lynda