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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Leicestershire => Topic started by: gah on Wednesday 28 July 10 19:53 BST (UK)
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Has anyone any knowledge of photographers in Leicester , have some photos no idea who they are but thought if i knew when these photographers were in operation it might help to narrow down the dates and have a clue as to who are in the photographsthey are ...
W.GREAVES..BELGRAVE GATE LEICESTER
MANSFIELD ...WELFORD PLACE
PHILLIPS AND FRECKLETON...MARKET PLACE NOTTINGHAM , ALSO LEICESTER AND LOUGHBRO'
JAMES BROWN ?
gah
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Greeting’s Again. ...... Gah.
Leicester Trade Directories 1st Sighting of your names :~
1887/8.
Frank Brown. 20 Market Place.
James Brown. 43a. Granby Street.
Manageress Miss A Raworth.
1908.
F. Brown.. 29 Granby Street,
SPOTTED THIS ONE :~
No’.3. Granby Street Leicester Medical Society.
E.W. HOLYOAK. MB. Hon Sec.
Phillips & Co. 68. New Walk.
Mansfield Studio’s …Welford Place.
John Bickerstaff. Manager.
Wm. Greaves. 193. Belgrave-gate.
1916.
Frank Brown. 94. London Road. & The Limes Saxecoburg Street.
Wm. Greaves 193. Belgrave-gate.
;D…………….Bet ALL the Photo’s are of Holyoaks. ……… ;D…
MIKE. ……. ;)
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Hello Mike ;)
Well once again you have been a great help , thank you , not sure who are on the photos , but ye you guessed it ;D they are possible Holyoaks, thought if i knew when the photographers were operating in Leicester it might help to narrow down the years and give a clue as to who they are :)...well i'm hoping :)
a big thank you
gah
p.s. hope you are well
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Greeting’s Again Gah.
;)……..Well there’s a mighty big clue in the 1908 entries for Granby Street. …… ;)
MIKE. ……. ;)
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Hi gah,
If you can scan your photos, why not post them on the Photo Restoration and Dating Board, we can have a look at them and get a date for you. We're pretty good at it ;) :)
Cheers
Prue
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Additional information for the Phillips and Freckleton photo(s)
Nottingham Market Place
Leicester 20 Market Place
Loughborough Church Gate
Addresses taken from the back of the photo mount cards
The photos are very likely the Owen family and might be Holyoaks by marriage.
One photo has a Woman with a child. In the woman's had is a small floral arrangement. Does this signify anything perhaps?
Thanks for any help - Mark
PS Hello again Mike
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Notes about above photo.
Corners are rounded not square. It appears that Rootschat cropped the image slightly.
I also note the the P&F 20 Market Place address is also the same address gives for F Browns (1887/8)
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Dear all,
This thread seems to have gone oddly quite since my last posting so I think a word of explanation might be in-order.
GAH and I met through another forum and didn't realise we are both Rootschatters. We both share the same 3 x great grand parents (poss' 2 x G grand parents for GAH). I told GAH about my 1890's photo album with 30+ mostly unidentified photos in it. Recent results indicate that the majority of the photos are from the Putt and Owen families base on the trend that, so far, the only photos identified are of these families and that resemblances between the identified and the unidentified indicate 2 main family groups. Having sent GAH a selection of the most obvious candidates, GAH thought that the photo posted above could possibly be GAH's great grandmother. I personally have reservations because of some small details but the possibility still exists and there is a strong resemblance which at the very least would place this women as a sibling or niece. We are working through the dates of death for these very large Owen families to find who was alive/married/had children at the possible time this photo was taken. It appears we both had the same idea at roughly the same time when it came to checking up on the details of the photos themselves i.e. asking the very knowledgeable rootschatters. (that is knowledgeable on both photos and Leicester).
Please do not let my possibly "left field" contribution to this thread put you off helping GAH.
Below in the reverse of the photo mount. As I understand it curved corners are more closely connected with circa 1900 (+/- a couple of years). Phillips and Freckleton don;t seem to come up in the commercial directories but I have it in mind that the Nottingham address was only in use from 1899 to about 1901.
As always, any help given is gratefully received
Thanks - Mark - (FS)
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Mid - late 1890's for a date.the Gigot sleeve was a short lived creation from 1893- 8 ish & grew larger over that time.
jim
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Thank you Jim.
That would seem to link in with what I can find on Phillips and Freckleton. My reading suggests that photo mounts of this type are more generally associated with pre 1900 than post so that fits.
Phillip and Freckleton seems to have been a loose and short lived partnership between two exisiting Nottingham photographers being Albert Phillips of Phillips and Co and Joseph Walter Freckleton of Freckleton and Co.
The only directory entries for Freckleton and Co are found in Nottingham's Wrights 1894-5 and Wrights 1898/9. The address being (1894-5) 69 1/2 Long Row West Market St Nottingham and (1898-9) 63 Long Row West Market St. Bother these addresses are given as also being that of Freckleton and Co while Phillips and Co have a separate Nottingham address.
I can find no reference of Phillips and Frecketon in Leicester or Loughborough. The only clues seem to be that the 20 Market Place address for Leicester has been a photographic studio for both F Brown (1887/8) and Arthur Moore (Kelly's 1895). However Phillips and Co (confirmed as the same Nottingham business and Albert Phillips) appears at 2 Museum Terrace, New Walk Leicester in 1899 (Kelly's) and continues through to 1909 with a change of address to 68 New Walk Leicester about 1903.
It is therefore my guess that Phillips and Freckleton briefly had addresses in Leicester and Loughborough between 1894 and 1898 but that they ceased when the partnership seems to have dissolved around 1899.
This also fits well with Jim's estimate of date and, for me at least, points to these photos being from the period 1894/5 to 1898/9.
GAH - I am not sure how this fits with your dates for Fanny Owen?
ATB - Mark
Added - A Leicester Mercury article published 14/8/1897 details a court case where Phillips and Freckleton are being sued. They are said to be of "New Walk" Leicester at this time.
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Hi everyone,
Just been googling for information on W Greaves, to help identify some of my Hall album photographs from Nottinghamshire and Leicestershire, and have found the following information which might be of use to gah and Mark:
From Historical Directories:
Wm Greaves 193 Belgrave Gate mentioned in both the 1903 and 1908 copies of Wright's Directory of Leicester.
From Census:
1891 and 1901 census - William Greaves (widower) - artist and photographer
193 Belgrave Gate
born 1858, Stamford Lincolnshire
Not there in 1881.
Hope this helps a little and re-opens interest in the thread.
Kind regards,
Paulene :)
P.S. Curious to know Mark if you ever found Clara Annie Brewin's whereabouts, Mark.
Be in touch soon - take care. Have a wonderful summer.
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Jim,
Just in case you happen upon this - any ideas on the date for this one, please?
Perhaps someone has a dated photo by this photographer with the same mount.
Thanks,
Paulene :)
Any dates gratefully received.
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Hi Paulene,
How are you? Very nice to here from you and hope the family is well. Look forward to September when we pick up on the last project ;)
No, Clara is still a mystery. I know she went to Canada as a Home Girl and married plus had at least 2 boys but the trail goes cold after 1930. I am waiting for Wigston RO to let me see the records for Winifred which they say I cannot see until 2011 due to the 100 years rule for Leicester Borad of Guardians.
Thanks for the Greaves info. I do have photos of this age in the album. I will have a look later and see if they match your.
All the best - Mark
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Hello Willow
Start a new topic for this & include the back.
jim
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Hi Paulene,
Sorry, I've checked and I don't have one similar to yours. I was confusing one of the Browns photos I have that looks quite similar.
All the best
Mark
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Hi Paulene,
From what I can find William Greaves first appears at 193 Belgrace Gate in Kelly's 1891. Before this (at least in 1888 and before) 193 Belgrave Gate was in the Occupation of Samuel Bevan and Son, Needle Makers. Greaves still occupies 193 in 1909 (see Wights and Kelly's 1899, Wrights 1903 and Wrights 1909). Looking at the card mount and its similarities others I have, I would place it closer to 1891 than 1900. The one I have that is most similar in design is dated to around 1888. Given that I cannot find Directories for 1889 & 1890 it is possible W Greaves was there as early as this so my guess is circa 1890 (+/-).
Does this fit with what you know?
Best regards - Mark
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Hiya
In reference to William he was my great great grandpa! Just founf him out cos he was proving tricky to find...and managed to find him...popped his name in google and I found this thread!He lived at the photographers studio. Im sooooo pleased to know he was a well known chap :)
Anyone got any other info on him for me?
Thanxs
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Hi Buffy,
You must be very proud of William then. He must have been quite good as he lasted a lot longer than many of his competitors. Having found him in Business Directories from 1892 although I think he might have been at 193 Belgrave gate ealier his business survives until at least 1916. Do you known when he retired moved?
I have also looked for him in the 19th C Newpaper collection but haven't found him although this only goes to about 1902 I think.
I do have one W Greaves photo of the 1890's which I think could be Kate Owen. It has a nice decoration on the back and also indicates that William also had premises in Lutterworth around this time. I can scan it for you if you would like to see it?
ATB - Mark
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Hi
Yup very proud of him...bless! Have only just in the last week started researching my family tree so am a real newby!
Would love to see the picture...please!
Thanxs
Buffy
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Hi Buffy,
Here is the picture. The front is scanned black and white while the back is in colour however the mount card is actually grey so the colour image is less accurate than the B&W one. There is also a gold finish around the cut edge of the card that can only been looking edge onto the card. I also notice it says he was a portrait so he must have been a very talented man.
All the best - Mark
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Hi mark
Thank you for the picture, do you have any idea who the lady is, or is she just a random customer?
Gosh a portrait painter as well....my Mum said that her grandfather, William's son, was also a keen painter so it's nice that the talent was obviously passed down, well at least one generation anyway!
Thanks again
Buffy
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Hi Buffy,
We think the sitter could be Kate Owen one of the sisters of my great great Grandfather. The problem is that my great grand mother Maria Owen was one of 15 children and her mother was one of 13 and her father was one of 12 (found so far). The facial features support her being an Owen. The eye colour seems to support the idea that she was my great great grandfathers generation as they look like they have mostly light (blue) eyes. my great grandmothers generation look to have mostly dark (brown) eyes although this is not totally conclusive. I think the 'leg of mutton' sleeve on the dress indicates a dress date of 1893 - 1899 (approx') based on its size it is probably later rather than earlier. Of the blue eyed generation Kate is the only woman still unmarried during this date range. Of the predominatly brown eyed generation she would have to be no older than 16 and I think she looks more like mid 20's.
When I get a moment, I will look up the Lutterworth info to see how long William had a Lutterworth Studio. It might give another clue.
ATB - Mark
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Hi Mark
Long time no speak! Did you ever get a chance to see if Mr Greaves's studio in Lutterworth ever existed?
BR
Buffy
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Not sure if anyone is following this link any more but attached is details of William Greaves Photographer of Leicester and family which I have compiled from census details, newspaper cuttings etc. starting around 1800. Had to delete some of it to accommodate the miserly 500K. Contact me if you want the full monty with pictures (2.1MB).
Rgds
Dave
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Not sure if anyone is following this link any more but attached is details of William Greaves Photographer of Leicester and family which I have compiled from census details, newspaper cuttings etc. starting around 1800. Had to delete some of it to accommodate the miserly 500K. Contact me if you want the full monty with pictures (2.1MB).
Thanks for the pdf which I will read with interest. ATB - M
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I'm coming in a bit late here and it may not be of much help, but I know Frank Brown was around late 1800s-early 1900s. He took a lot of photos of my gt gt grandfather. I strongly suspect Frank Brown may have been a freemason - just a feeling in my bones!
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In my family history research I came across mention on this web-site by Beverley W information on a Leicester photographer, Mansfield of Welford Place. This has always intrigued me as my great uncle, Archibald Lewis, sent his family a photo, taken by Mansfield and I would guess this would be about 1905. I read Beverley's notes on Frank Hughes originating from Stonehouse in Gloucestershire, just outside Stroud. My family were originally from Stonehouse and seemingly there was some disagreement with Archibald which resulted in him moving presumably to the Leicester area. What is interesting is that Archibald moved to Donegal, Ireland and married in 1911, his occupation being photographer. Was he working for Mansfeld or indeed any of other companies in the area?
The family argument was sadly never settled and no one knows what it was over. Archibald's two older brothers never forgave him for not attending their father's funeral in 1935. What they didn't know was that he died on the Somme in 1917.
Any information or leads would be most welcome.
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For an in depth look at Victorian and Edwardian photographers in Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire with interest in Leicestershire too, you might like to have a look at Brett Payne's websites. Although now resident in New Zealand he is both highly knowledgeable and easily approachable. He helped me with identification and dating of a number of archive photographs some years ago.
Photographers & Photographic Studios in Derbyshire, England (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~brett/photos/dbyphotos.html)
and
Photo-Sleuth: old photographs, photographers and their subjects by Brett Payne (http://photo-sleuth.blogspot.co.uk/)
Cheers Alan
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Many thanks Alan.
Regards,
Adrian.............