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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: Jackie W on Saturday 31 July 10 08:33 BST (UK)
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Hi,
Thomas Hopkinson & Nancy Wallwork are my 4gGrandparents.
I have found records of them in the Tottington/ Holcombe area having 4 children between 1819-1825
Richard
Betty
Alice
Priscilla
William
They never married but both their names are on the baptism records at Church of Emmanual in Holcombe.
Nancy later moved to Pendlebury.
I cant find any records for Thomas other than the Baptisms. Does anyone have any knowledge of this family?
I am wondering why the never married, the children all took the mothers surname.
I believe Thomas was a publican at The Bulls Head on Holcombe lane around 1821.
Regards
Jackie
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Hi Jackie
First guess would be that Thomas was already married. Divorce was pretty rare then.
Perhaps his wife was invalid/institutionalised/gone home to Mother :D
In a small town or village everyone would probably know that he was the father of the children, but legally they had to take their mother's surname.
Linda
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Hi.
This may be a clue from the National Archives site http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/a2a/
Emmanuel Church, Holcombe, Formerly Holcombe Chapel
Order for the maintenance of bastard children L21/3/21/264 1 Oct. 1825
Daughter of Nancy Wallwork and Thos. Hopkinson of Elton, farmer
On the 1841 and 51 census there is an Edward Hopkinson aged 37 and 50 respectively who was the listed at the Bulls Head as Innkeeper and farmer of 25 acres. He was born Elton.
I suspect the above Edward was baptized to a Thomas and Ann Hopkinson at St. Marys , Bury on 30th March, 1800. Thomas and Ann also had a son Thomas baptized 1804 but he would I think have been too young to be your Thomas. There is a Thomas aged 77 and Ann aged 72 living in Elton on the 1851 census who could be Edwards parents but.... :-\ My thoughts are did Edward take over the Bulls Head from his father Thomas and is Thomas the one who had children with Nancy Wallwork?
However it may be worth searching for this will if it survived:
http://www.xmission.com/~nelsonb/lws.htm
Supra, Hopkinson Thomas, Bury & of Elton, innkeeper & farmer. Nov 1831
Regards,
Mo
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Thank you both,
The details I found of their children from Lan-opc.org.uk, list the baptism dates at Emmanuel church, Holcombe.
Both parents are named, but where it gives the Abode & Occupation, would this be the mother or fathers?
13 Apr 1821 Bulls Head, Holcombe Lane- Publican
15 Dec 1824 Tottington, Weaver
18 Aug 1825 Tottington, Weaver
Just noticed on the same site their are 2 baptisms for children of Thomas & Alice Hopkinson, Samuel 2/4/1793, Abode Elton & Nelly 23/12/1802 Abode Brandlesham, no occupation is listed on these. The plot thickens! ???
The Thomas on the census record with Ann you mention would have been born abt 1785 & Nancy was born 1793, so those ages seem right.
I will try & find the Will you mention but our local office is closed till 9 Aug. I'll have to be patient!!
Nancy is listed on 1841 census in Pendlebury, so guessing they prob went their own ways when maintenance applied for in 1825? The last child I have on record was Baptised 28 Aug 1825 & maintenance order is dated 01 Oct 1825.
Thank you again for your help, much appreciated.
Jackie
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I think it would be father's occupation shown. Good finds both of you :D
Linda
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The IGI has a marriage of Thomas Hopkinson and Ann Hickinbotton, 2 Jan 1794, Bury St. Marys.
Also at Bury St. Marys, baptisms of children of Thomas Hopkinson and Ann :
Edward 1800,
Betty 1802,
Thomas 1804,
Alice 1811,
Mary 1819.
A baptism at Holcome-Brook Meeting House, Tottington.
Richard Hopkinson, son of Thos and Ann Hopkinson, formerly Higginbottom, was born December 5th 1815, and baptized December 18th 1815. The parties reside at Brick Barn in Tottington, parish of Bury, county of Lancaster. P.Ramsay, Minister.
A couple of burials on the Lancashire OPC site at St. Anne, Tottington.
17 Sep 1815. Betty, daughter of Thomas Hopkinson, Brick Barn, 12.
18 Dec 1815. Richard, son of Thomas Hopkinson, Brick Barn, 19.
Thomas has a son Richard baptised on the same day as an older son Richard is buried (at a different Church), unless the age 19 is a mistake and its the same Richard.
The dates, locations and childrens names fit with this being the right Thomas, but the will might confirm it.
Alan.
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Thank you Alan for all that info.
The first of Thomas & Nancys children was baptised 23 Feb 1819, so the Thomas born 1804 could poss be too young.
I wonder if the Thomas that was married to Ann could be the father of Nancys children?
Kind Regards
Jackie
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Jackie,
Thats what I'm thinking. The will might confirm it.
Alan.
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Hi,
I suspect the one that left a Will in 1831 was the Thomas aged 44 who was buried at St. John (the Rock), Bury on 26th July, 1831. Unfortunately, I have checked the M.I.s for this church and he is not listed. :'( So this one would have been born 1786/7.
By the way, if you search the a2a for Hopkinson plus Elton you will notice that there are also bastardy orders at Holcombe for:
Son of Betty Wallwork and Richard Hopkinson of Elton, Weaver on 29th September, 1823
Daughter of Mary Hutchinson and Joseph Hopkinson of Elton, LAbourer on 17th May, 1825
+ your Thomas and Nancy.
:o :o :o
There are other "hits" for Hopkinsons if you use Holcombe instead of Elton.
Regards,
Mo
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Thanks for the replies, was away from computer most of yesterday. Will be back on later today to try & get my head around all theses Hopkinsons!!
Great help from you all, thanks so much
Jackie
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Nancy was my gggggrandmother and I managed to look at the microfilm records of Tottington Lower End that happen to be in the Local History Section at Manchester Central Library a couple of years ago found not only the Bastardy Orders but also some of the actual payments in the account books. Time was limited so I may have missed some and as I live in Berkshire wont be making a return trip anytime soon.
In miscellaneous microfilm at Central Library for Tottington we have following Bastardy orders
1/10/1825 on Nancy Wallwork on Thomas Hopkinson ,Weaver of Ellow or Elton
also Betty Wallwork on Richard Hopkinson 2/7/1823 and on James Bierley; overloooker on 18/9/1825
The accounts 1825-1830 scanned quickly found
4/2/1826 Thomas to Nancy 7s 6d
5/7/1826 3s
20/10/1826 12s
Nov 1828 3 14 6
Mar 1829 2 18 6
1829 2 18 6
1 0 0
1 18 6
12/5/1830 2 18 6
Keith Eckersley
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Hi Keith,
Sorry for the delay in replying, I read you email while on holiday and only now got chance to look at it in detail.
Guess we're related then, same generation as Thomas & Nancy are my 4xG Grandparents!
My line follows on through their daughter Priscilla.
Thanks for the info. Nancy had a younger sister Betty, so i wonder if Thomas and Richard were siblings also?
I've not had the chance to do any research over the last 6 weeks or so, so I'm looking forward to getting back into the swing of it now.
Kind regards
Jackie
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I am from Priscilla too via her daughter Ellen Redford and her husband Ellen Redford.
Keith
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Hi Keith,
My line is through Ellens brother Enoch Redford (1848-1904) he named one of his daughters Ellen, whom I am a decendant of.
Have you managed to get any further back than Thomas & Nancy?
I am stuck with Thomas but have found Nancys parents.
Kind Regards
Jackie
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Well I believe that Jonathan and Hannah were her parents and Jonathans parents were Richard and Nancy but I am not at all sure about this.
Keith
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Yes I have most of that too, just did'nt have Richards wifes name. We must be on the right lines.
I went to the church in Holcombe to look at the grave stones but couldnt find anything else. We did find some Wallwork graves but must have been another line of the family.
Jackie
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I am from Priscilla too. Robert Redford - Enoch Redford - Robert E Redford was my grandfather who died in 1951. I live close to Pendlebury.
I believe a Jackie on here is also our relative.
Hoping to hear.
Best wishes. Cath
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Hi Jackie
I am from Priscilla's line. Robert Redford - Enoch Redford - Robert E Redford was my grandfather who died in 1951. I live close to Pendlebury.
Hope to hear from you.
Best wishes Cath
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Hi,
Thomas Hopkinson & Nancy Wallwork are my 4gGrandparents.
I have found records of them in the Tottington/ Holcombe area having 4 children between 1819-1825
Richard
Betty
Alice
Priscilla
William
They never married but both their names are on the baptism records at Church of Emmanual in Holcombe.
Nancy later moved to Pendlebury.
I cant find any records for Thomas other than the Baptisms. Does anyone have any knowledge of this family?
I am wondering why the never married, the children all took the mothers surname.
I believe Thomas was a publican at The Bulls Head on Holcombe lane around 1821.
Regards
Jackie
Jackie I don't know if you are still working on this or not. I have a copy of the will of Thomas Hopkinson, Innkeeper, who died in 1831. I believe he is the Thomas who was the father of Nancy Wallwork's children. This Thomas was the son of Thomas Hopkinson and Alice Rothwell, of Elton. Thomas seems to have not married until 1828. He had a bit of a shotgun wedding marrying 12 Aug 1828 a Lucy Appleton. They barely managed to marry before the birth of their only child Hannah who was born 25 SEP 1828 (there may have been others who died young, but have not researched that yet).
In his will he does not mention any children by Nancy Wallwork. Rather he mentions several of his siblings, and his daughter Hannah. This Thomas seems to have been the Innkeeper at Bulls Head. Its not clear if Hannah survived to majority, but in any event he names 2 of his brothers as his executors and a friend, and mentions by name a total of 4 of his brothers and unnamed other brothers and sisters. He also specifically leaves his property at Gartside Heyes, Lower Brandlesom Booths Tenement to his brother Joseph. This is the Joseph who is found in the various census ennumerations after he died in 1831.
That makes us cousins! I am descended of Thomas Hopkinson, Innkeeper's brother Edward. I have the line back another couple of generations beyond Thomas Hopkinson, Innkeeper's parents (Thomas Hopkinson and Alice Rothwell) and I can share that if you want it. I would love to update the tree with more detail from you on the Wallwork descendants.
Feel free to contact me directly Patty Hopkinson (*)
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Hi Patty H . I have just seen your post to Jackie which I found very interesting as my husbands gig grandfather was Edward Thomas's brother. Please would you tell me where you found the copy of Thomas's will . Pollyyates :)
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Polly,
I also descend from Thomas' brother Edward. I sent you a message with my email address. Please contact me.