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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Kent => Topic started by: suziq on Thursday 05 August 10 11:27 BST (UK)
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Hi
I posted on the look up requests and unfortunately no one had any more luck than I had at finding a marriage between Terry A Seymour and Ellen J Mount or Ellen on 1911 census.
Has anyone got any ideas where i should go next on this search? i have not done very much research this up to date!!!!
Many thanks
suziq
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Hi Suziq
Assuming for now that there may not have been a marriage, what is it you are trying to find out? Are you trying to trace them backwards or bring the family forwards?
Casalguidi :)
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Hi Casalguidi
A bit of both really but to come forwards before we go backwards, there is some secret being kept (which has now gone to the grave) and I'd like to discover that before going backwards. it may be the fact that there was no marriage that was the secret but the children were born in 1935, 1942 and 1944 which seems a long period of time, the oldest child remembered Terry but they were never allowed to mention his name so the oldest boy who is still living can remember nothing about him!
Suziq ???
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Think I may have found her on 1911 Census - as you know, not allowed to post details but if you have access look for Jennie Mount aged 6 months in Herne Bay.
There is no Jennie/Jennifer Mount born 1910 so think Jennie a pet name for Ellen Jane.
Annette
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Don't suppose you've ever heard Ellen Jane referried to as "Jennie" have you? Parents probably Frederick MOUNT and Edith E (MUNN?)? That's the best I could see in 1911 for now :-\
Edit - snap ;D
Casalguidi :)
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hello do you have the childrens names and where they lived
sylvia
the age in between could have been the war ,i was born 1939 my brother 1944 when dad came out of the army .my mum died 1946 dad remarried and my sister was born1949
USUALLY IT WAS CHILDS DEATHS
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Ellen J Mount
1910
Oct-Nov-Dec
Blean
County Kent
SYLVIA
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Hi all
It could be her in the 1911 census as apparently she was known as Aunty Jin!!!
that was definately her birth in 1910 registered in Blean
The children were Terry born 1935, frederick born 1942 registered Bridge, Kent and another born 1944
I'll check the 1911 for Jennie, thank you
Suziq
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It could be her in the 1911 census as apparently she was known as Aunty Jin!!!
Jennie would definitely make sense then .............. one of my husbands' gt grannies was Mary Jane known as "Jin"
Casalguidi :)
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602 seymours in kent 1901
not sure that they fit
Terry A J Seymour
Mother Maiden nameHughes
Oct Nov Dec 1916
Reg Blean
county Surrey Kent
=====================
Jill E Mount
Mother Maiden Surname Mount
Reg Jan Feb Mar 1934
Thanet
Surrey Kent
Volume 2a
============================
Brian J Munday
Mother Maiden name Mount
Apr May Jun 1945
Bridge
Surrey Kent
Volume 2a
Sheila Mount
Mother Surname Mount
Surrey Kent
Volume 2a
Amy F Mount
Mother Maiden name Mount
Apr May Jun 1942
Rochford
Essex Suffolk
Volume 4a
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birth
Ellen J Mount
1910
Oct/Nov/Dec
Blean
Kent
sylvia
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At least you know you have the tools to work back by getting the birth certificates of both Ellen Mount and Terry Seymour. Working forward seems impossible. Can find no trace of him anywhere.
Annette
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Hi annette
I have a Terry A Seymour marrying in Bristol in 1943 but that is it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Suziq
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Hello Suziq,
I think I may have part of the mystery solved for you - but it will raise more questions, no doubt.
There was a marriage during 1930 between Ellen J. Mount and Frederick J. Wells:
Entry #25
Register #22/4
The register number indicates that the marriage took place at one of the following three locales:
Herne Bay, Christchurch and/or Hoath
This marriage was found on the Kent County Council website at
http://extranet3.kent.gov.uk/sp/rois/marriagesearch.cfm
I have tried searching FreeBMD for children born to Wells and Mount but unfortunately, I do not think that their records for that late a time period are 100% complete, yet. So, no children were found.
But, the children would have to have been registered under Ellen's official surname at the time the registration took place. So if you are looking under Mount or Seymour you just may not find any of the registrations. You will have to check for births of the children under the Wells surname matching the mother's maiden surname of Mount. I would have checked this for you on Ancestry, but sadly, I'm out of time for this morning.
Hopefully, this little tidbit will help to get you started on your trek once again.
Sincerely,
Susan
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Here is a link to the look up request
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,472552.0.html
where the 1930 marriage was also noted.
I found a birth for a female Wells MMN Mount in Blean Q1 1925 - can pm the details if you like.
Might it be worth trying to access archived electoral rolls for the area/time when the first child named Seymour was born? You do need to know an address of course, but it should be on the birth certificate. You would be able to see what adults were living there.
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Hi Josey
Yes if you pm me I would be grateful, also could you explain where i can access the archive electoral roles please ?
Thank you everybody
Suziq
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Looking at these again i think there must be another Mount/wells wedding as Ellen Mount wasn't born til 1910 so she would have been too young (probably)
suziq
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The Terry A. Seymour married Elsie S. Norton (Rose?) in 1943 - think this pair went to Canada although there are lines crossed through the entries which is a bit confusing but can find no trace of either in the UK so assume they must have gone.
On 11/7/1949 on the Aquitania from Southampton to Halifax, N.S., Canada.
Terry Seymour 36 Farmer
Elsie Seymour 35 Housewife
Nicolas Seymour 6
Marcus Seymour 4
Their last address was Old Dairy House, Bridgwater, Somerset.
The only other weird thing is I can't find birth entries for either of the children and Terry states age as 36 giving birthdate c.1913.
Annette
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well this is certainly the most confusing tree I've tried helping!!!!!!!
I wonder if it is the same Terry A Seymour as the one born in Kent? I haven't been able to find other ones and living 2 lives would give the family a jolly good reason not to talk about him!!
Suziq
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Electoral rolls may be archived at a central library for an area. I don't know Kent but I suggest you contact the main library in Canterbury. Do you have the 1935 child's birth cert to give an address for Ellen that year? Is Terry Seymour named as the father?
I think certificates are the only way to prove whether Terry A Seymour born Blean 1916 is the same as Terry A Seymour who married Elsie Norton. We know the former had mother maiden name Hughes but both certificates will have the father's name.
Josey
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I would suggest contacting Herne Bay Library for surviving electoral rolls/street directories - both of which could be really useful to your search (WELLS and SEYMOUR) - a visit would be even better if you are able to do so as it would be useful to go through all the available years if you can http://www.kent.gov.uk/LibrariespublicUI/OpeningTimes/LibraryDetails.aspx?id=10
Casalguidi :)
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I looked at the original for the 1943 Seymour marriage and I'm sure that Elsie's name is Norton or Rees [NOT Rose]; there is a birth in 1949 of a child Seymour MMN Rees in Taunton, Somerset though this doesn't fit in with the age on the sailing in 1949 found by Annie [perhaps the age 4 on passenger list was really a 1?].
I found a death for a Terry A Seymour in 2001 in Benton, Washington, USA but can't manage to access any other details as I don't have a world subscription to ancestry. Can try at the library...
Added later: Another Seymour child MMN Rees born 1943 Q1 in Frome [also Somerset] fitting in with the child aged 6 in 1949.
Josey
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Hi josey
I also think it's Norton or Rees and not Rose and I also saw that birth but as you say the ages don't tally up.
I don't have a world subscription to Ancestry either so will have to go to the Library as you say
Thank you for all your time and help
Suziq
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I found a death for a Terry A Seymour in 2001 in Benton, Washington, USA
The Social Security Death Index is accessible via Familysearch http://www.familysearch.org - birth date given as 10 Oct 1912
It might help to try and find the exact name(s) of Mr SEYMOUR from some source(s).
Casalguidi :)
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The SSDI also shows the death of Elsie Selena Seymour b.30/6/1913, d.21/4/2007 Benton, Washington so this looks like the wife of the coupe who married 1943.
However, as this and Terry's birthdate tie up with the immigration entries I found I'm wondering if this is a different Terry (the UK one in 1916 shows he was Terry A.J.) maybe an American/Canadian serviceman over here in WWII.
Annette.
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Had a look at the passenger list that Annette found - the younger child was 4/12 not 4 so is likely to be the 1949 birth I found.
However the crossing out that Annette pointed out is odd. Perhaps he was doing a Reggie Perrin!!
Just wondering are we treading in murky waters as the sons of this couple are likely to be still living?
Josey
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So I have received the birth (not the marriage yet!!!)
The birth cert states:
DOB 10 October 1916
Terry Astley James
No fathers name given
Mother: Pansy Vera Seymour formerly Hughes
registered by the mother Hawthorn, Swalecliffe
i have found a marriage for Pansy vera W.Hughes to Ernest Walter Seymour 1908 St Geo H Sq
I can't find a birth for Pansy Hughes (or a marriage of a Pansy to a Mr Hughes)
Not much further on but thought I would update those of you who are as intrigued as I am!!!!
Suziq
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Thanks for that.
Astley is an interesting name...
Can't find Pansy on any censuses either.
I await instalment 2 ;D
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"Pansy" may have been born as the rather less floral Vera Eva W[enman] HUGHES (birth reg Jun qtr 1888 Fulham, baptised 27 May 1888 Shepherds Bush with birthdate given as 17 March 1888 - parents Joseph Henry & Alice Eliza).
The 1901 census shows her with father Joseph H and stepmother (?) Eva in Chiswick (Vera's birthplace given as Shepherds Bush): RG13/1199/30/51.
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Death: Jun qtr 1947
Pansy V.W. SEYMOUR aged 54
Bridge 5b 69
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Good finds, avm.
Looks like Pansy changed her age [a bit] as well as her name!!
I've looked on the 1911 census index but can't find her or an Ernest W.
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I've looked on the 1911 census index but can't find her or an Ernest W.
Perhaps he was one of those chaps who went by his middle name?
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avm
You were right 1911 sees Walter and Pansy with their daughter Iris in wandsworth, Pansy's place of birth is Shepherds Bush, he's a clerk born in Redhill!!!!
Suziq
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She loved the 'floral' theme then ;D
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Ok then back from hols and marriage cert is here (actually phoned and got my mum who was staying here to open the letter and give me the info as I couldn't wait!!!!!!!!!!!)
Details on cert:
30th June 1943 the Register Office in Bristol
Terry Astley Seymour
30 yrs old
Bachelor
Cinema Engineer
Living in Knowle
Father: Walter Seymour (dec'd)
Fathers occupation: Artist
Elsie Selina Norton formerly Rees
30 yrs old
The divorced wife of Ronald Percival Norton
Living in Knowle (same address)
Father: Charles Henry Rees
Bookkeeper
So I would say that is fairly conclusive evidence, what do you reckon????
Suziq
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I would agree ........... if Elsie was a bit older perhaps he put his age up a bit
Casalguidi :)
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I agree too. Nice to have it confirmed by the certificates. It's useful there was the uncommon name Astley.
Elsie S Rees & Ronald P Norton married in Bristol 1938 Q3 6a 534. They must have been divorced within a very few years if Elsie married again in 1943. Was this unusual at that time?
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I would have assumed it was but we all know what to assume does to us all!!!!!! I haven't come across this before!!
suziq
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It appears then that the 3rd child of Ellen Mount & Terry A Seymour was born in 1944 after he married Elsie Norton nee Rees. And the first in 1935 only 5 years after Ellen Mount married Frederick Wells.
Was Terry named as father on any or all 3 birth certificates?
Josey
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As far as I know Terry was named as the father of all 3 boys, I did say there was a secret involved, my friend's dad, the last boy born still had him as his father!!!
To be honest this started as a bit of fun, she knew there was a family secret which her Uncle who only passed away recently knew the answer to, the younger brothers knew nothing, her dad being the youngest and still living!!!
Not sure if the Ellen I'm looking for was the one who married Frederick Wells
My friend told me when we started this that her grandad was Terry Ashley Seymour and her Uncle born in 1935 was named after his father, I will contact her again to see what she has found out!!
Suziq
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I can tell you quite alot about ellen jane mount as she was my aunt and I am in touch with Mr seymour in usa I to am trying to unravel their story for myself and my cousin and Mr Seymour if you would like to email please look for me under suemount21 on ancestry I would like to be able to help. it may help to know there are two ellen jane mounts my auntie jin was named after her fathers sister and both of them married a frederick wells first time round not the same one though. my aunts nickname as a baby was jennie and her aunt ellen was known as janey. just in case there is any confusion regarding children ellen jane senior first married thomas hosmer mannering he died she then married frederick wells and went on to have two more children louisa and elsie, these were her last children as she was in her late 40's then. I am also in touch with ellen seniors grandaughter. hope all this helps
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Hi
I think it is your cousin I started this search for!!!!!!!!!
I have tried to find you on ancestry but to no avail, do you know where I seach? I would love to know more, your cousin has told me some info!!!!!
many thanks
Suziq
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Hello serenemoon and a warm welcome to RootsChat.
If you make 2 more posts here, even to simply say 'hi' you will be able to communicate with suziq through the private message (PM) system here on RootsChat. This is accomplished by clicking on the green scroll under a poster's name. That way you could exchange e-mail addresses privately if you so desire. They are not permitted to be posted on this public part of the forum.
Polarbear
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Hi
I have that 1908 marriage certificate
She was born Vera Eva Wenman Hughes 1888. Father Joseph Henry Hughes. I have located his marriage to Alice Eliza Martin.
I am trying to find out more about the Husband of Vera, Ernest Walter Seymour (according to this marriage certificate , his father is George Seymour artish, portrait.
I am wondering if this is George Langford Seymour or George L Seymour, the famous artist.