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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Staffordshire => England => Staffordshire Lookup Requests => Topic started by: silverpulser on Friday 06 August 10 12:16 BST (UK)
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I am looking for the burial record of my ancestor, Elizabeth Corns (formerly Rogers) who died 14th September 1867 age 27 at Windmill Bank, Wombourne, Staffordshire. She died from lung congestion and post partum bleeding (death certificate source). She was the wife of Joseph Corns and died shortly after the birth of her daughter, Jane Corns b 30th August 1867 at the same address.
There is a burial of an Elizabeth Corns infant 8th September 1867. This could possibly be another child born at the same time or shortly after but not showing in the indexes of births or deaths so may have been stillborn if it was hers. No baptismal entry either. This information was sent to me by an email request to the Staffordshire Record Office so I do not know whether they were looking at transcripts or film of the original parish register entries. I am hoping that the parish entry might reveal a bit more information on this burial e.g. parents names.
The mother, Elizabeth, was baptised and married at Wombourne and her children were baptised there too, so I find it unlikely to imagine a burial elsewhere ( I have tried the Trysull burials without success!) but remain open minded.
The church for Wombourne is St Benedict Biscop.
Thanks
Shaun
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Could you please tell me when Joseph Corns was born, I have a "double" here, with both Corns and Rogers....
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Could you please tell me when Joseph Corns was born, I have a "double" here, with both Corns and Rogers....
Joseph Corns was born at Wombourne 12th October 1838 (birth certificate). He was the son of Thomas Corns and Mary Cox. He married Elizabeth Rogers at Wombourne 25th May 1863 (marriage certificate). Elizabeth was the daughter of William Rogers and Jane Liming (birth certificate)
Cheers.
Shaun
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Hello, I have William Rogers baptised (LDS) 6 Nov 1817 with parents James Rogers and Mary Meredith married 25 Dec 1802 Wombourn (LDS).
James being the son of Daniel Rogers and Elizabeth Smith, marriage and births again from LDS.
I have Joseph Corns baptised 14 Oct 1838 Wombourn. (LDS). Age 3 on the 1841 census. Son of Thomas Corns baptised 11 Feb 1810. He married Mary- I did not have her surname-only Mary from childrens baptisms, and census. Looking at the 1841 again, I see a Cox family are next door to the Thomas Corns family....Are these Marys parents?
Your Thomas b 1810 is the brother of Henry Corns, my 3x gt grandfather, so by my working out we share Joseph Corns b 1780 and his wife Elizabeth Meredith, my 4x gt grandparents.
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Hello, I have William Rogers baptised (LDS) 6 Nov 1817 with parents James Rogers and Mary Meredith married 25 Dec 1802 Wombourn (LDS).
James being the son of Daniel Rogers and Elizabeth Smith, marriage and births again from LDS.
I have Joseph Corns baptised 14 Oct 1838 Wombourn. (LDS). Age 3 on the 1841 census. Son of Thomas Corns baptised 11 Feb 1810. He married Mary- I did not have her surname-only Mary from childrens baptisms, and census. Looking at the 1841 again, I see a Cox family are next door to the Thomas Corns family....Are these Marys parents?
Your Thomas b 1810 is the brother of Henry Corns, my 3x gt grandfather, so by my working out we share Joseph Corns b 1780 and his wife Elizabeth Meredith, my 4x gt grandparents.
Yes I have those entries for the Rogers ancestors,
I have not researched the ancestors of Joseph Corns as they are not my blood relatives (as far as I know). I have, however, recorded his parents, Thomas Corns and Mary Cox, to help identification with any queries I might be asked. On this occasion I also recorded the mother of Thomas Corns as Elizabeth, since she was easily found together with other family members on the 1851 and 1861 censuses. And yes, I do believe that Joseph Cox and his wife Elizabeth, found on the 1841 census residing next to our Corns family may well be Mary's parents, though I haven't researched it sufficiently to my satisfaction to be certain.
Do you have a burial for my Elizabeth Corns (nee Rogers)?
Incidentally, when Joseph Corns married Elizabeth Rogers she already had a son, George Rogers b 1862 from whom I descend. Of course, Joseph may be the father of George but I have no way of knowing. When Elizabeth died after the birth of her daughter Jane Corns in 1867 Joseph disappears, not to be found anywhere again!! His daughter Mary Corns b 1865, his stepson George Rogers b 1862 and his father Thomas Corns all appear in the Seisdon Union workhouse at Trysull on the 1871 census with the remaining daughter, Jane Corns b 1867 now living with Thomas and Mary Hale at Windmill Bank. I am in touch with a living descendant of Jane Corns, still living at Wombourne, in the same house that her grandparents (James Cox and Jane Corns) raised her up in after the death of her father when she was only two years old.
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Hi, I do not have the burial for your Elizabeth. I notice on the last census Jane Corns married to James Cox, was he a cousin?The marriage was in Wolvs reg 1888.
I notice I also have in my notes- but unconfirmed by my research- so I have picked it up on Ancestry trees.Daniel Rogers b 1745 parents were Daniel Rogers and Ann Corns b 1707 daughter of Richard Corns and Ann Cartwright who were my 7x gt grandparents....
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>..I notice on the last census Jane Corns married to James Cox, was he a cousin?...<
Not from my current level of research. I have the marriage certificate for James Cox and Jane Corns (known as uncle Jim and aunt Ginny to my grandmother). I have a couple of photographs of them.
Regarding the Rogers ancestors, so far I have only got back to Daniel Rogers b abt 1770 as the earlier info I saw on the Family Search site was a submitted entry and not an extracted one, so I could not rely on it as a source of proof. I need to spend more time on this side of the family but Bournemouth is a heck of a long way from Wombourne, though I have visited briefly and met Jane Corns grandaughter at Planks Lane and have a photo of the occasion.
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Several years ago the late May Griffiths transcribed St Benedict Biscop (Wombourne) parish registers. Later I 'computerised' them.
From those records I have established that:
Joseph Corns and Elizabeth Rogers married 25/5/1863
Joseph Corns B Labourer Wombourne Father Thomas Corns Labourer
Elizabeth Rogers S Wombourne Father William Rogers Labourer
Witnesses Rachael Oaks, William Deans. The marriage was by Banns
Jane Corns was Baptised 18/9/1867
There were two Elizabeth Corns buried in 1867:
Elizabeth Corns, Blakeley buried April 14th age 24
Elizabeth Corns, Wombourne buried September 18th Infant
Later I will search my photographs of headstones to see if there is a stone for the April burial.
I hope the above helps.
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Thanks for the info Ted. I did speak to May Griffiths whilst she was alive and I could see she was passionate about local family history research. Unfortunately on this occasion she has either made a mistake or taken a view that the Burial register was wrong.
The entry for the burial of Elizabeth Corns, Infant, was dated the 8th September 1867, not the 18th September 1867. However, that entry appears following an entry dated 13th September 1867. So either the vicar forgot to enter the burial in the register on the day or he mistakenly entered the date as 8th instead of 18th. I guess we will never be sure. There is, of course, the question of who was the infant the child of.
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CORNS, ELIZABETH age 24
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 283
CORNS, ELIZABETH age 27
GRO Reference: 1867 S Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 263
I cannot find the birth or death of an Elizabeth Corn(e)s in 1867.....
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Agreed. The one you show the index for in the September quarter 1867 is the one I have the death certificate for; i.e. Elizabeth Corns (formerly Rogers), age 27, wife of Joseph Corns, Nailer.
The burial of Elizabeth Corns, infant, 8th September 1867 remains a mystery as there is neither a birth nor death record. If she was stillborn then there would not have been a requirement to do so.
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You are correct the date should be the 8th of September 1867. However I made the assumption that the transcriber made an error there because of the other two entries to which you refer.
Regarding May, because of her mobility problems (not being able to get to the small room upstairs) for more than 10 years I did much of her research work. More recently one of her daughters became interested and took over from me. She, May, often disagreed with me and I would suggest that we should agree to differ - she never accepted that.
Finally, after 'computerising' the parish registers I have produced combined indexes for the BMDs
in both date order and name order. I have also produced two, what I call Family Finders'. Again there are two versions - child to parents and parents to child/children. When looking at other postings I saw that silverpulser stated that Joseph Corns, son of Thomas and Mary, was born on the 12 October 1838. The parents to child version indicates the Joseph was christened 14th October and that he had a brother John who was christened on the 14th December 1834. The date order index brings marriages together. Should you or anyone else wish to learn similar info please do not hesitate in asking me.
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"CORNS, ELIZABETH age 24
GRO Reference: 1867 J Quarter in WOLVERHAMPTON Volume 06B Page 283"
Where does 24 year old Elizabeth come in, anyone?
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I trust the following may be of help.
From May’s churchyard survey I have found the spot where your Elizabeth might have been buried.
May’s survey primarily concerned the older part of the churchyard, where plots/graves are identified by numbers, some of which have alpha suffixes. The plot where Elizabeth may have been buried is 224v.
In the Survey May has put the name Corns - no mark next to that number.
Unfortunately, the suffix v indicates that a person, it could have been May herself, had provided information employing local knowledge.
Having found that record I examined others with similar numbers. I found that the dates given on the inscriptions varied widely, for example 224 is the Keay family where the dates given are 1886, 1888,1898 and 1903..
223 Shirley Yates died 1949
222v Lees - no mark
221v Gittins - no mark
221vv Lees - no mark.
225 Lake - no date – Vase
226 Corns 1944 and 1945
From the above you will see that the dates given are many years apart – from the late 1800s to 1945. You will also see the large number of ’no marks. The reason for both could be because in that area, memorials have moved downhill or simply sunk into the ground due to the fact that Wombourne is built upon fine sand. Lines of plots that were once straight are now anything but straight and there are many blank spaces.
If you wish to visit the location 224v then I will gladly provide details to pin point the location.
Alternatively, I could send you a photo of plot 224 and/or 226. As I said previously I hope this is of some help.
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I have just been down to the churchyard - disappointing but not unexpected.
The situation is much worse than I expected. I did however find the headstone of Gunner A Burton (Plot 220) who died in 1943. The plot is the last in that row.
I went back to the path moved up the path to the next row. At the beginning of that row there was a large headstone followed by the space that would have contained at least 5 or 6 plots. There I fond a plot with a large headstone and marble edging - nothing readable. A short distance on I found the headstone of William and Ellen Maria Corns (Plot 226).
If your Elizabeth was the Corns of plot 224v then her plot would have been the second plot back towards the path. I took some photographs that may be of interest. Please let me know.