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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: maggie360 on Tuesday 03 August 10 22:11 BST (UK)
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My gggg grandfather went to India and I have just completed transcribing his journal.
He had one child born mid Atlantic called JOHN ATLANTIC STEPHENSON who I can trace in the Census reports giving the exact lattitudes as in Journal! Another daughter CATHERINE MARY LAYTON STEPHENSON (my ggg grandmother)was born in India in 1836 or 1839 but I can find no records on any website so help here would be greatly appreciated. Two other children were born out there, HENRY LAYTON and INDIANA .
I can find no record of JOHN STEPHENSON senior in Newcastle (who worked in the chemical trade ) after he returned in 1841.( All I know is he died before 1860 as he is listed as deceased on Catherine's marriage certificate.)
Going back to his son John Atlantic he was evidently a writer of folk songs but would love to know more about this, and also his work as a public speaker within something known as the Bewick club. So many questions, I am sorry but I am bitten by the bug!
Have had a very interesting time with the original journal handed down in our family of this voyage to India on a Brig called the Argo. Has anyone else had any information on sailing ships of the 1820?
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Born at sea 1829, lived Newcastle on Tyne, Song writer? Any information on him, his father John Stephenson, Mother Elizabeth or any of his brothers or sisters: Henry, Catherine Mary, Julianna, Leonard, Albert or Alfred. Has been mentioned a distant relation to 'George Stephenson' clan but need more information to join the dots!
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Hi Maggie - was going to look on hte FIBIS site (families in British india) but site is closed for maintanence!.
also Googled the Bewick club - is this it?
http://www.tbrj.co.uk/bclub.htm
Diddy
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did you try googling John Atlantic?
John Atlantic Stephenson
Born Mid Atlantic on Waterloo day 1829. Father was in the Chemical trade on the Tyne and on his way to India to work for the East India Company when his child was born. His mother was a daughter of Dr. Brummell.
Blind willy sung of him- "Dr. Brummel upon the Sandhill, He gov Sir Maffa a pill."
In Newcastle Props a song by Oliver Blind Willy is referenced :
"O weel aw like te hear him sing
'Bout young Sir Matt andDr. Brummell.
The family returned from India after 12 years. John started at Sowerbvy's Glass Works, Gateshead. Later he became representative of John Rogerson and Co. He was a member of the Bewick Club holding office of Hon. treasurer. He contributed as an amateur to the annual exhibition. He is known for water colors of rural scenes.He is also known as a public speaker performing for his club. Stephenson specialized in dialect.
source:
http://mysite.verizon.net/cbladey/sang/bards.html#John Atlantic
Diddy
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deleted,,just noticed u had the info about henry,,, :-[
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Information on Bewick Club very helpful, thank you. Already found the entry re J A Stephenson when googling his father's name! He was mentioned in the journal I am transcribing as being born mid Atlantic hence his name.. I really need information on his father now to make connections. Thank you for your help.
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Hi
1841 census HO107 1261/11 folio 5
Peak Hill Stainton Dale Yorkshire
Jno Stephenson 46 Agent peak alum works
Elizth Stephenson 34
Jno Stephenson 11
Henry Stephenson 9
Indiana Stephenson 7
Mary Stephenson 5
Lenna Stephenson 3
Albert Stephenson 6 Months
all born in county - the yes on the 1841 census born in county can very unreliable
1851 census HO107 2402 folio 18
Elizabeth ? Gateshead Durham
Elizabeth Stephenson 45 Head Widow Gateshead Durham
John Stephenson 21 Son Glass Cutter Atlantic Ocean
Henry Stephenson 19 Son Glass Cutter Hindustan
Julianna Stepherson 17 Daughter Hindustan East Indies
Leonard Stepherson 13 Son Sunderland
Albert Stephenson 10 Son Peak Yorkshire
Alfred Stephenson 7 Son Heworth Durham
1861 census RG9 3813 folio 78
118 Elswick East Terrace Elswick
Elizabeth G Stephenson 54 Head Widow Householder Newcastle on Tyne
Leonard Stephenson 23 Son Printer Compositor Sunderland Durham
Albert P Stephenson 20 Son Carver and Gilder Peak Yorkshire
Alfred S Stephenson 18 Son Blacksmith Heworth Shore, Durham
Regards
Valda
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Hi
Henry Layton STEPHENSON
Birth Date: 11 January 1832
Ghazeepore
John and Elizabeth
Born in Singhee
LEONARD QUINTIES STEPHENSON
Birth: 16 MAR 1838 Bishopwearmouth, Durham
Father: JOHN STEPHENSON
Mother: ELIZ.
Births Mar 1838
Stephenson Leonard Quintus Sunderland 24 201
Births Dec 1840
Stephenson Albert Peak Scarbro 24 475
Births Dec 1843
STEPHENSON Alfred Septimus Gateshead 24 15[35]
ELIZABETH GORDON BRUMMELL OR GORDON
Birth: 22 SEP 1804
Christening: 13 OCT 1805 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland,
Father: WILLIAM BRUMMELL
Mother: ELIZABETH GORDON
Deaths Mar 1878
Stephenson Elizabeth Gordon 72 Gateshead 10a 457
Regards
Valda
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Re notes and research by Valda.... many many thanks, you have found out so much that I wanted to know! I was going round in circles - how did you find these entries? Perhaps I had restricted my search to Newcastle and therefore not found the entries!
It is interesting that Julianna is sometimes Indiana. I think it was transcribed wrongly at some stage. The information on middle names too is very interesting. In the song it states that his mother was a daughter of Dr Brummell.. this is presumably William Brummell you found. Do you know where I could find records of doctors of that time? What on earth the song means is another question!
I am nearing completion of the journal of John Stephenson's voyage to India where he was bonded to 'erect machinery' One last question - how do you think I could pursue this as unfortunately I have not found anything on the FIBIS website relating to his work out there apart from the original bond put up by his employers and a bookseller. I can give you the names if it helps?. Once again, thank you!
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Hi
This website holds the Prerogative Court of York will index (there is a charge unfortunately). Since William Brummell was a doctor it might be worth checking to see whether he left a will.
http://www.originsnetwork.com/NWIWelcome.aspx
John Stephenson is not a rare name so tracking his death date and possible will (because there of others so named) will not be so easy. Even so Brummell is not a rare surname.
a potential sibling
CATHARINE BRUMELL
Birth: 11 AUG 1811
Christening: 27 AUG 1811 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland,
Father: WILLIAM BRUMELL
Mother: ELIZABETH GORDON
There are likely to be further records on John Stephenson if he was employed by the East India Company but those records will be held at the British Library in London.
It would help to know a little more about William Brummell, whether he was an apothecary, a doctor or a surgeon for instance. All could be described as doctors.
Regards
Valda
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John Atlantic Stephenson's brother, Albert Peak Stephenson, born at Peak, Staintondale, was my wife's GG Grandfather. Whilst John Atlantic seems to have faired well and become something of a quite wealthy celebrity, the rest of the family were not so lucky. After her husband's death, the mother of John and Albert and the others moved to Gateshead and the family lived in a fairly run down area whilst the boys took mundane manual work. My wife's line is as follows - Albert Peak Stephenson - Albert Henry Stephenson - Albert Peak Stephenson II - Doris Stephenson (my wife's mother). Does this ring any bells with anyone? We are planning a trip to Staintondale later in the year. The mansion where John Stephenson's last employer lived (the owner of the Peak Alum Works) is now a hotel and the house where John Stephenson lived is now a National Trust cottage and available to rent (quite expensive - we won't be staying there!)
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Hi
Welcome to Rootschat
This looks to be the cottage you mentioned 'Low Peak Cottage'
http://www.nationaltrustcottages.co.uk/north_of_england/yorkshire/low_peak/255
Regards
Valda
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Yep - that's the place. Everyone on Rootschat talking about John Atlantic Stephenson seems to be convinced that his mother, John Stephenson's wife was called Elizabeth Brummell - reference to his songs etc. I have a copy of his brother Albert Peak Stephenson's birth certificate and the mother's name is "Elizabeth Stephenson formerly Bromwell". There are mistakes on transcripts and census returns etc but rarely on original Certificates. Who do you think has got it right?
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Hi Valda and Buffers. Thank you Valda for the idea of tracking wills and I will do this asap and let you know! Buffers, I think I must therefore be related to your wife..! My mother's gg grandmother was Catherine mary Layton Stephenson, known as Mary I think, and was the sister of John Atlantic and Albert Peak.She was born in India, married in 1860 in England and lived in Westgate, Northumberland (181 Stone Street.) I would like to find an image of it if it is still there.
The journal that father John Stephenson wrote has only this year come into my possession having been held in New Zealand my another branch of the family. I have practically finished transcribing it following on a daily basis the journey over 6 months. He is due to arrive in Calcutta on 18th August. It sheds light on him as being very understated in all his descriptions of weather, lack of wind for 3 weeks and the birth of his first son, John Atlantic. Perhaps your wife would like a copy?
I now need to find a birth certificate for Mary to compare notes but am finding this very difficult. Also, I cannot find a record of her in the 1851 census and am stumped here too! However I do have a photograph of her just before she married. Thank you for the information on the cottage - it does look remote.
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Hi
Her death registration, if this is the correct death registration
Deaths Mar 1878
Stephenson Elizabeth Gordon 72 Gateshead 10a 457
would fit reasonably well with the possibly baptism - out by a year because she would have been actually 74 later in the year.
ELIZABETH GORDON BRUMMELL OR GORDON
Birth: 22 SEP 1804
Christening: 13 OCT 1805 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland,
Father: WILLIAM BRUMMELL
Mother: ELIZABETH GORDON
Regards
Valda
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God morning Valda & Maggie,
Well, percentage-wise it looks as though Albert Peak's birth certificate is wrong. The number of sources mentioning "Brummell', especially Elizabeth's death certificate, are pretty convincing - thanks, Valda.
Maggie, my wife would absolutely love a copy of John Stephenson's journal. When you're ready, do a posting on the site and we'll sort it out. Meanwhile, I'll dig out a WWI photo of Albert Peak II in the navy and post that on the site.
Has everyone got the story about the rise and fall of the Peak Alum Works - the gambling spend-thrift who once owned it - the reason for its demise etc? I can't pin-point John Stephenson's death. It must have been in the 1840's but Stephenson is such a common name in the north-east and there are loads of deaths recorded in that period for that name. Also, I have always presumed that he left the alum works when it started to deteriorate but does anyone know whether he actually died before Elizabeth and the family moved to Gateshead?
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I've had a look at my downloaded census returns to remind myself of the sequence of events before and after John Stephenson's death. The 1841 census shows the family in Staintondale, of course. At the time of the 1851 census in Gateshead, John was dead and Alfred was 7 so they had moved away from Saintondale sometime between 1842/3 and 1851. But Alfred was born in Heworth which at that time was a village south of Gateshead. So the family had moved at least twice in that 7 year period. By 1851, Elizabeth and the children were in Rabbit Bank, a basic working class area.
What I'm trying to establish, as in my last posting, is exactly when the family moved to Heworth, whether John was still alive at that time and the circumstances of his leaving Peak Alum Works. Any ideas anyone? Also, does anyone know where John Stephenson originated? His wife Elizabeth is listed on census returns as being born in Gateshead/Newcastle (confirmed by your copy of her death certificate, Valda), and Stephenson is a name very much associated with the Tyneside area so was John from there too? The only census return he appears on is the 1841 which does not list birthplaces.
By 1861, Elizabeth had moved to Elswick East Terrace on the north side of the Tyne. Stone Street runs off Elswick East Terrace Maggie, so your ggg grandmother and her family were living just round the corner from her mother, whose household still included your ggg grandmother's brother Albert, my wife's gg grandfather - still unmarried.
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Sorry Maggie, Google Maps made a pigs ear of my Stone Street search. It's no-where near Elswick East Terrace. The only one I can find is in a suburban area in the south of Gateshead. The area seems to be a 20th century residential one with most of the roads having modern names like "Cedar Way" and "Yewtrees" but Stone Street is there and sounds much older - it is probably an original name. If this is the one, I'm afraid there don't seem to be any original buildings there. However, it is only a couple of miles from Heworth where the Stephensons moved to from Staintondale so maybe there's a connection there.
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Maggie, I browsed around for Stone Street, Westgate. I don't know how certain or significant the "Westgate Northumberland " reference you made is but I can't find any link between Westgate Northumberland and Stone Street. I did come up with a site called isee.gateshead.gov.uk They've got hundreds of photos and I found one of a Stone Street in an area called Windy Ridge, Gateshead. Windy Ridge is exactly where I found the Stone Street I mentioned in my last posting - close to Heworth. The photo was taken in 1937 but the houses are definitely 19th century so that's probably how they would have looked in your ggg grandfather's day - if this is the right area. The real spooky thing is what it says on the site about the photo:-
Title: Phil Stephenson, Stone Street, Windy Nook c1937
Photographer: Unknown
Date: C1937
Reference Number: GL007013
Item Description: Phil Stephenson known locally as Bow Legged Phil sitting outside his home, 2 Stone Street with his sister Margaret Simpson and Mrs McAdam.
How about that. Any connections you can see? The photo is attached.
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Hi
The three birth certificates (one of which you already have) will pin point further the movement of the family in England before and after the 1841 census, Albert's confirming the 1841 census
Births Mar 1838 Stephenson Leonard Quintus Sunderland 24 201
Births Dec 1840 Stephenson Albert Peak Scarbro 24 475
Births Dec 1843 STEPHENSON Alfred Septimus Gateshead 24 15[35]
If John was still alive at the time of Alfred's birth, then since the birth was registered in Gateshead and the family were still in Gateshead in 1851 the first place to look for his death would be in Gateshead.
There are 4 possible death registrations
Deaths Dec 1844
STEPHENSON John Gateshead 24 95
STEPHENSON John Gateshead 24 97
Deaths Jun 1845 STEPHENSON John Gateshead 24 100
Deaths Dec 1846 Stephenson John Gateshead 24 138
It is possible to see the civil registration subdistricts of Gateshead these deaths were registered in
http://online.gateshead.gov.uk/bmd/
John STEPHENSON Died: Q4 1844 Register: 3 HEW Entry:257
John STEPHENSON Died: Q4 1844 Register: 3 HEW Entry:273
John STEPHENSON Died: Q2 1845 Register: 3 WIN Entry:115
John STEPHENSON Died: Q4 1846 Register: 4 HEW Entry:130
I think HEW is Heworth sub district and WIN is Winlaton
This search engine doesn't find Alfred's birth.
The 1851 census puts the family in the ecclesiastical district of St Marys.
The 1845 death appears to be a John Stephenson aged 2 burial in Gateshead
In 1846 there is a burial of a John Stephenson in Heworth aged 1
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1204024901500#start
There are no records on this source for the 1844 deaths. Neither of the 1844 deaths may of course be correct. It is just that I can't eliminate them.
Two further baptisms for the family - baptised with Leonard whose baptism was already given.
Harriet Elizabeth Mariana Stephenson born 4th October 1833
Christening: 21 SEP 1838 Bishopwearmouth, Durham
Father: John Stephenson
Mother: Elizabeth Stephenson
Katharine Mary Layton Stephenson born 21st July 1835
Birth: Christening: 21 SEP 1838 Bishopwearmouth, Durham
Father: John Stephenson
Mother: Elizabeth Stephenson
LEONARD QUINTIES STEPHENSON
Christening: 21 SEP 1838
Birth: 16 MAR 1838 Bishopwearmouth, Durham
Father: JOHN STEPHENSON
Mother: ELIZ.
The baptisms can be found on Family Search
http://www.familysearch.org/Eng/Search/frameset_search.asp?PAGE=igi/search_IGI.asp&clear_form=true
and also on Family Search Record Search where addtional information is given
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html?datestamp=1204024901500#start
such as Henry Layton Stephensons baptism date 1st April 1833 Singhee Bengal
Where is Story's Buildings? It might be where they were living in 1838 but it is given on one of the baptisms in the index as John's birthplace - information which would be extremely rarely given on children's baptisms so it is unlikely to be correctly indexed
A further baptism which will be of interest because of the middle name
John Bromswell STEPHENSON
Baptism Date: 01 April 1833
Location: Ghazeepore
Parents: John; Elizabeth
Notes: Born at sea
http://indiafamily.bl.uk/UI/Home.aspx
From the Family Search Record website but from a totally different Presidency - Madras not Bengal so may be not connected. Presumably the diary would state whether they were in that area
16th January 1831
William Samuel Stephenson
John and Elizabeth
St Thomas Mount Madras
27th September 1834 born 20th July 1834
Mary Elizabeth Stephenson
John and Elizabeth
St Thomas Mount Madras
Regards
Valda
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Hi
Peak Alum works
http://www.exnet.com/1995/12/18/science/science.html
http://heronrecreations.co.uk/pdf/panels/alum.pdf
Not sure what the connection is
The country house gambled on a bug race
The Rev. Francis Willis was a heavy gambler and it is said that in the 1840's he lost Peak House (now the Raven Hall Hotel), and its extensive grounds to a gentleman called Hammond in a single bet on two woodlice running across a saucer.
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda,
Thanks for all the births and deaths possibilities. When you say "Not sure what the connection is" What are you referring to?
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Hi
The Rev Francis Willis to the Peak Alum works.
Regards
Valda
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Well, a synopsis of the the information I have gathered is as follows:-
Sir Bryan Cooke, a Baronet from Doncaster, originally founded the Peak Alum Works in the early 17th century. It was a company that mined locally-found alum (aluminium sulphate) and processed it to sell on to fabric makers as a vital ingredient in the dyeing process. Around 150 years later, in 1763, William Childs of London, a Captain in the King's Regiment of Light Dragoons, leased the company from Cooke. He then built the new family home, Peak House, close by, on the site of a farm, which in turn was built on the site of an ancient Roman fort. On Captain Child’s death in 1829, the house passed to his daughter Ann Willis. She also continued as lessee of the alum works. In turn, her son, the Rev. Dr. Richard Willis took over. He was a notorious gambler and lost a good deal of money at Doncaster Races. In 1834, the Willis family sold the alum works to Robert Campion.
By 1841, demand for alum was rapidly diminishing due to competition from a better replacement product. Some time in that year the works became inoperative. Campion went bankrupt and the works were sold in 1842 to a succession of owners. It eventually closed around 1860. During the period of the alum works’ downfall, a Mr. William Hammond of London foreclosed on the Rev. Willis’ mortgage and took over the house. Hammond quickly became a prominent local benefactor. He built the village church and windmill, and during the later part of his life he became a director of the company that built the Scarborough to Whitby railway line. He made substantial extensions and improvements to Peak House.
Hammond also eventually acquired the alum works, and it became a farm. It was then named “The Peak Estate Company” in order to sell the land. There were many attempts to do this and in 1897 the name was changed to “The Ravenscar Estate Company”, which went bankrupt in 1908. The receivers then took over the selling off of the land in plots. The National Trust bought the residue along with the alum works itself.
Peak House had been bought by Hudson Hotels n 1898 and turned it into a hotel. It has remained as such ever since and is now called the Raven Hall Hotel.
A feature of the hotel are the hanging terraced gardens and battlements, built in the 1830’s at great expense by the Reverend Dr. Willis.
There does seem to be a discrepancy in the name though. You have "Rev Francis Willis" and I have "Rev. Dr, Richard Willis".
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Hello Valda and Buffers,
Thank you for all the information, I am beginning to build a real picture of the family of John and Elizabeth and their 7 children.
I am a little confused by Juliana/Indiana/Harriet Elizabeth Mariana but I think she was known as Indiana and in the 1841 census she is called Indiana (but have only just found it as listed as Stephanson) also Catherine Mary named one of her girls this.
I have found records of Henry Layton in the census 1861 living in Durham Married to Isabella with 2 children a Stoker and Railway engineer. Out of interest John Atlantic had a son Philip born 1891 but cannot think he would be the one in the picture?!
No research done yet into Leonard or Alfred. Do you know how many children Alfred Peak had in all?
So we know when Elizabeth was born but not John. I would like to know the journey before he accepted a job in India and embarked with his pregnant wife to unknown shores.
Also they had fun with the second names of the children ie Atlantic for obvious reasons, Quintus and Septimus as they were the 5th and 7th children, India because she was born there? Ideas now for the Layton in Catherine Mary and Henry....! Regards Maggie
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Just a thought but I wondered if I could trace more information about John Stephenson by the people who put up the bonds and sureties for the trip to India.
They were James William Taylor, King Street, Portman Square ( Merchant) and William Potter , Northampton Place, Old Kent Road ( Bookseller) I have started to trawl the internet but as yet no luck....
He had some knowledge of London as in the journal he mention swallows flying under the Serpentine so could have lived there at some stage?
With regard to the baptism you mentioned Valda of John Bromswell Stephenson in India , this has to be John Atlantic I guess but the middle name bears out Elizabeth's middle name on Albert Peak's birth certificate doesn't it?! Perhaps Bromswell is right after all...
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I also believe that J.A.S is an ancestor of mine. Further down the line, my grandfather was John Smith Stephenson and his father had the same name. GGG owned properties in Low Fell, Gateshead; i`m told he was a baker and there is evidence to support that. The `smith` was not continued after my gandfather so I don`t know where it came from. GGG was married to a Martha and had two sons; Martha died fairly young and one of the sons, Andrew died from his wounds in 1918. He is buried in St.Johns churchyard in Gateshead. I have not been able to trace any further back than GGG; any help in tracing back to John Atlantic Stephenson would be appreciated.
Brian
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Hi
Births Mar 1865
Stephenson John Smith Newcastle T. 10b 3
1871 census RG10 5071 folio 62
Back William Street Westgate
Alber P Stephenson 30 Head Married Gilder Whitby Yorkshire
Mary E Stephenson 25 Wife Married Newcastle Upon Tyne
John S Stephenson 6 Son Newcastle Upon Tyne
Albert H Stephenson 3 Son Newcastle Upon Tyne
Mary A Stephenson 1 Daughter Newcastle Upon Tyne
1881 census RG11 5048 folio 151
27 William Street Westgate Newcastle Upon Tyne
Albert Stephenson 40 Head Married Gilder and frame maker Whitby Yorkshire
Mary Stephenson 36 Wife Married Grocer's apprentice
John Stephenson 16 Son Errand boy
Albert Stephenson 14 Son
Mary Stephenson 11 Daughter
Lizzie J. Stephenson 9 Daughter
Alfred Stephenson 11 Son
Sarah E. Stephenson 4 Daughter
Indianna Stephenson 7 months Daughter
everyone except Albert senior born Newcastle Upon Tyne
16th January 1886 St James, Islington London
John Smith Stephenson 21 Bachelor Baker St James Holloway Albert Peck Stephenson Gilder
Martha Baillie 19 Spinster St James Holloway William Baillie Deceased Porter
Both signed
Witnesses Archibald Smail and Florence Foster
1891 census RG12 4214 folio 39
5 Elizabeth Street Byker Newcastle Upon Tyne
John Stevenson 26 Head Married Baker Newcastle Upon Tyne
Martha Stevenson 24 Wife Married Newcastle Upon Tyne
plus 2 lodgers
1901 census RG13 4760 folio 153
3 Belle Vue Grove Gateshead
John Stephenson 36 Head Married Bread Baker Newcastle Northumberland
Martha Stephenson 34 Wife Married Newcastle Northumberland
William Stephenson 8 Son Newcastle Northumberland
Andrew Stephenson 3 Son Gateshead Durham
John Stephenson 2 Son Gateshead Durham
Births Mar 1899
Stephenson John Smith Gateshead 10a 935
Name: STEPHENSON, ANDREW
Nationality: United Kingdom
Rank: Gunner
Regiment/Service: Royal Field Artillery
Unit Text: 50th Div. Ammunition Coy.
Age: 18
Date of Death: 23/02/1918
Service No: 174653
Additional information: Son of John S. and Martha Stephenson, of 2, Rock Grove, Low Fell.
Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead
Grave/Memorial Reference: 187.
Cemetery: GATESHEAD FELL (ST. JOHN) CHURCHYARD
Regards
Valda
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Hello Valda, Maggie and Brian,
Where did the 1886 info with the Stephensons in Islington come from, Valda? Whatever else this info does, Brian, it definitely links your ancestor, John Smith Stephenson to the John Atlantic Stephenson line. The clue is in the member of the same household called Albert "Peck" Stephenson. This is a mis-spelling I've come across before. It should be Albert "Peak" Stephenson - that very unusual middle name is the link. There were 2 Albert Peak Stephensons, the first one was my wife's GG grandfather. He was John Atlantic Stephenson's brother. He had a son called Albert Henry who was my wife's G grandfather. Albert Henry's son Albert Peak II was my wife's grandfather. Albert Peak I had another son called John. On the 1871 census he is listed as simply John S. Stephenson 6 years, old alongside his younger brother Albert Henry who is 3. The fact that in 1886 there is a John Smith Stephenson at the same address as Albert Peak Stephenson (albeit spelled wrongly) must identify them as father and son. Therefore, Brian, the John S. on the 1871 census was indeed John Smith Stephenson, and he was John Atlantic Stephenson's nephew - so there's the link in your chain. Although what father and son were doing in Islington in 1886 I have no idea. Maybe the whole family was there at that time. In 1891 Albert Peak and his wife Mary were back in Newcastle, although by then, the sons had moved on. Again, Valda, where is this 1886 info from?
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Hi
A marriage certificate merely gives information on where the couple had resided for three weeks in front of the marriage (if by banns) it gives no further information on the residency of anyone else mentioned on the certificate. There is no evidence, unless there is a witness signature, that even places fathers at the actual ceremony.
A marriage by tradition occurs in the bride's parish. People were arriving in London on a daily basis. It was a magnet for work opportunities. Some stayed and some left.
Pm sent
Regards
Valda
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Oh, I see Valda - didn't realise it was a marriage. Anyway - the presence of Albert Peak there means that the groom, John Smith Stephenson, was pretty certainly his son.
Yes, everone was scudding around the country looking for work at that time. Albert Peak Jr. my wife's grandfather, married an Elsie Maud Collingwood. Her father was also Tynesider (Collingwood is of course another name associated with Geordieland) but by the time Else Maud was born, he'd been to Rochdale in Lancashire to get work, lived there for sevaral years and then returned to the Northeast.
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Many thanks Valda and Buffers...clearly you know your way around and I have lots to learn. I did not know that my grandfather, John Smith Stephenson had another brother apart from Andrew, at least it appears that he did; I had never heard of him before, just wondering if he died in childhood. Thanks for identifying the link Buffers, I`m really pleased about that. I do remember hearing the name Indianna mentioned when I was a child, however my family were not good at recording information. One thing I do have from My great grandfather is his bakers recipes in a hand written book...clearly commercial proportions of ingredients. I have some unidentified photos too, however my mother believes that one of them is of Indianna.
Regards,
Brian
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Hi
William seems to still be alive on the 1911 census aged 18 - you need to check that out for yourself - because of copyright reasons searches cannot be requested on Rootschat for that census and the free search is limited so I can't be sure.
http://www.1911census.co.uk/
Regards
Valda
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Hi, Just checked with my mother who recalls that my grandfather did indeed have a brother called William who was a cabinet maker; for some reason he was rarely spoken of and it is believed that he died in the 1940's. He would have been the oldest of the three sons. She also believed that Indianna was so named as she had been born in the Indian Ocean; I see that there are two mentions of that name, one around 20 years earlier than second, so I`m thinking that one may have been named after the other assuming that there were in fact two of them.
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Hello,
The first Indiana was one of the children of the "original" John Stephenson, father of John Atlantic. He worked for the East india company and spent a lot of his time overseas with his family. John Atlantic Stephenson was so named because he was born in mid-Atlantic, on Waterloo day - John and his wife Elizabeth had a tendency to give their children flamboyant names. Indiana's name was given to her because she was born in the East Indies - the name at that time for the area which now includes Malaysia, Indonesia etc. Her younger brother, my wife's ancestor, Albert Peak Stephenson, was so named because he was born after the East India Company days, when the family was back in England. John was working for the Peak Alum Works on Peak Hill, Staintondale, between Scarborough and Whitby. Leonard was given the middle name of Quintus because he was the fifth child. Similarly, Alfred, the seventh child's middle name was Septimus. It was in the 3 year period between the birth of Albert, the sixth child and Alfred, the seventh, that the the family moved to the Gateshead area. John also died some time between Alfred's birth (or conception) and the 1851 census in Gateshead. We are all trying to find out whether this was before the family moved there and what were the circumstances of his death, because by 1851, the family's status had taken a bit of a plunge. They were living in a pretty rough area and the two sons old enough to work, John Atlantic and Henry, were just glass cutters - no sign at that stage of John Atlantic's celebrity status. Finding the father John's death record is proving to be difficult because it is such a common name in the north east. I believe Valda or Maggie has posted a list of possibilities.
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Maggie360; you mentioned a branch of the family in N.Z and a record that you now have in your possession. Thats very interesting; from the information received here its apparent that many of us are from the same family. My great grandfather was a nephew of John Atlantic Stephenson. I'd be interested in acquiring a copy of the documenation that you mention, if that is possible.
Brian Stephenson
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Buffers; many thanks for the information. I don't know what caused the dowturn in the family fortunes prior to John Atlantics appearance as a celebrity, however his nephew, my great grandfather must have turned his own fortunes around as I`m told he had his own bakery at some point and certainly did buy quite a bit of property in Low Fell, Gateshead. In fact I have oneof his rent collecting books, and, as a child I lived in two of the houses he had originally owned. I`m told that his wife Martha (Baillie) was the driving force behind him and that he was less successful following her death. Still digging, I`ll post anything I come up with.
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Hello Brian, I have just finished the journal and am now looking into having it bound etc. Will let you know asap to sort out getting you a copy. My ggg grandmother was Catherine Mary Layton Stephenson and the journal was passed down via her daughter and again her family who then ended up in NZ. Will attempt to attach pictures for you and Buffers!
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Sorry but error message keeps appearing. Will include photo later!
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Hi
Information on attaching pictures - hopefully it will help
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,130922.0.html
Regards
Valda
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Maggie, I'd be interested to see the photographs; I have some that have been in the family for years and must date to around 1860-1890's. it would be interesting to compare them.
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First picture just before married to William Henry Hastings in 1860, second on their Golden Wedding in 1910.
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I've got a dramatic, posed photo of John Atlantic holding forth at a meeting in some ruins by the sea. Before I post it, I'd just like to check whether there's anybody who doesn't have it already. Anyone want it? I'd also like to know if anyone knows where it was taken.
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I don't think I've seen that Buffers; I would appreciate having a look at it, thanks.
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OK Brian, here it is. John atlantic is the one in the middle - white hair & beard, pointing at the camera, hat in his left hand. I can't remember where I got this - possibly downloaded from Newcastle Archives (free). There's also a photo of what is now called Low Peak House. This used to be the manager's house at the Alum works - very probably the house where John Stephenson Sr. lived with his family - the house where my wife's GG Grandfather, Albert Peak Stephenson was born. It's now a National Trust rentable cottage - a bit pricey.
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Thanks Buffers. I have one particular memory of my great grandfather, there is a similarity between him and J.A.S in this photograph.; I remember the moustache and the appearance of his hair being very similar, although great grandfather must have been in his late eighties by then. I`m a N.T member, but I find their properties a bit pricey; I`ll look this one up. Thanks again.
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On the 1841 Census in Staintondale, the only one on which John Stephenson appears, his age is recorded as 46: that's 12 years older than his 34-year-old wife Elizabeth. From John Atlantic's age on this census, he seems to have been born when his mother, Elizabeth, was around 23. His father John would have been 35. Has it occurred to anyone that this age difference might indicate that John Stephenson had been married before and had perhaps been widowed?
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I have a theory on the downturn in the family fortunes. Reading something of the history of the Peak Alum Works it seems that it went into a gradual but steady decline; I would imagine that the company would have `downsized`its workforce, much as companies do today. They may have travelled to Tyneside simply because they were out of work. I have nothing solid to support this theory but it seems a possibility.
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Buffers, I`ve emailed Maggie with a possible thread that may be worth following; equally, it may be of no significance! I`ve found a John Stephenson baptized 17 Nov 1804 in Bowes, Yorkshire. He was one of the children of Jonathan Stephenson (Circa 1774) and Jane Longstaff, they were married in Bowes on 17 May 1800. I mention this as it seems that the origins of the John Stephenson Maggie was talking about is apparently unknown.
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Brian, Yes, you're right about the decline of the alum works and the fact that this decline was gradual. This factor raises 2 central issues , given that John Stephenson died between 1843 and 1851. The first of these is - did he die in Staintondale, before his widow moved with the family to Gateshead, or did the whole family move and his death occurred afterwards? The second one is - similarly did the decline in his family's fortunes occur before or after he died?
I don't think the John Stephenson birth in Bowes marriage can be connected - our John Stephenson was born around 10 years earlier than that. The main reason that his origins are so hard to trace is that he was born well before the national births marriages and deaths register started in 1837. The added problem is that his name was a very common one in the northeast, so there are doubtless many births recorded in parish records all over the region.
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Hello all! Just some additional information that I don't think has been posted on this thread....from St. Nicholas parish register, Newcastle-on-Tyne: Elizabeth Gordon Brummell b. 27 Sept 1805, chr. 13 Oct 1805 - she is described as the "illeg s. (sic!) of Elizabeth Gordon by the child's "supposed Father, William Brummell, surgeon." Also, another entry reveals the supposition about having more children and an apparent marriage that I do not have fiche for..."Catherine Brummell" (Westgate Street) born 11 August 1811 and chr. 27 August 1811 1st daughter of William Brummell, surgeon, native of Alston, Cumberland and his WIFE, Elizabeth d. of Alexander Gordon of Aberdeen"...Hope this helps! My St. Nicholas baptism fiche go through 1812 so if there are any other look ups wanted, please feel free to ask! ;D Pat
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Hi
The surname looks to be Brumwell not Bru(m)mell
http://familytreemaker.genealogy.com/users/s/t/u/Marc-Stuart/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0415.html
JANE BRUMWELL OR GORDON
Birth: 15 APR 1807
Christening: 07 MAY 1807 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Mother: ELIZABETH GORDON
ANNE BRUMWELL OR GORDON
Birth: Christening: 26 DEC 1809 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Mother: ELIZABETH GORDON
WILLIAM BRUMWELL
ELIZABETH GORDON
Marriage: 03 JUL 1810 Saint John, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Christening: 05 SEP 1813 Saint Nicholas, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Mother: ELIZABETH
JOHN BRUMWELL
Christening: 31 DEC 1815 Saint Nicholas, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Mother: ELIZABETH
Another tree on the internet gives William Brumwell bapt 1754 Alston, died 1815, the son of John Brumwell 1721-1792 and Isabella 1726-1803 marrying to Susanna Wilkinson in 1783 and having a daughter Isabella in 1783
William Brumwell
Susanna Wilkinson
Marriage: 23 OCT 1783 Wisbech,St Peter, , Cambridge
ISABELLA BRUMWELL
Birth: 15 JUL 1784
Christening: 08 SEP 1784 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Mother: SUSANNAH
Not to be confused with this William Brumwell on someone else's tree on the internet baptised according to the tree in Alston in 1752 (other trees 1764) to George 1719-1804 and Euphemia M Leeke 1719-1768
UPHAN BRUMWELL (Euphemia)
Christening: 23 FEB 1800 Hexham, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
GEORGE BRUMWELL
Birth: 22 SEP 1801
Christening: 25 JUL 1802 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Mother: ANNE ENGLISH
WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Birth: 11 AUG 1803
Christening: 12 AUG 1804 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Mother: ANNE ENGLISH
THOMAS BROMWELL
Birth: 04 SEP 1807
Christening: 11 OCT 1807 St Nicholas Parish Rec And Nonconf, Newcastle Upon Tyne, NorthumberlandFather: WILLIAM BROMWELL
Mother: ANNE ENGLISH
MARY ANN BRUMWELL
Birth: 13 OCT 1812
Christening: 08 NOV 1812 St Andrews Brunswick Pl Formerly Orphan Hse-Wesl Mnew, Newcastle Upon Tyne, Northumberland
Father: WILLIAM BRUMWELL
Mother: ANN
WILLIAM BRUMWELL
ANN ENGLISH
Marriage: 12 MAY 1799 Hexham, Northumberland
Ann English's dates according to the tree 1771-1844
These bits from the internet
'Mr. Daglish was the pupil and successor of the late William Brumwell, surgeon, a man of singular simplicity and benevolence of character. Mr. D. in speaking of his respected master, says he was "a constant friend to, and warm advocate for vaccination; and who, for a period of nearly forty years, practised in Newcastle with success and credit; whose urbanity and kindness obtained for him the esteem of a numerous and respectable circle of friends, the affection of his servants, and the gratitude of the poor.'
successor certainly by 1825
http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=43378
'The trial at large of Sir Matthew White Ridley, bart., M.P., for and one of the aldermen of Newcastle upon Tyne for criminal conversation with the wife of Mr. William Brumwell, surgeon, Newcastle: before Lord Kenyon, at Guildhall, March 4th, 1793 : with the pleadings of councel at full length (Mr. Erskine for the plaintiff, Mr. Law for the defendant.) / taken in short-hand by Mr. E. Hodgson.'
'In fact he got himself into considerable trouble in this respect in 1793, when he was sued by a Dr. Bromel for 'Criminal Conversation' with Mrs. Bromel on the staircase of their house in Newcastle. Sir Matthew, who had been caught in 'flagrante delicto' by Mrs. Bromel's maid, was found guilty by a special jury, and ordered to pay £400 damages. This little incident did not, however, affect his public career, although he was Mayor of Newcastle and Member of Parliament at the time [27/10]. Perhaps the general public were of the same opinion as Sir Matthew's counsel who maintained, in mitigation, that Mrs. Bromel, although admittedly very beautiful, was not morally above reproach. Moreover, her husband had shown such a lamentable complacency in her affairs, that he suspected that they had conspired to rob this great but susceptible gentleman - not only of his money but of his peace and quiet. Any way, Sir Matthew continued to enjoy the confidence and affection of his constituents as well as his wife.'
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Matthew-Criminal-Conversation-William-Brumwell/dp/1170003206
Monthly magazine and British Register 1816
Died Mr William Brumwell of the Sandhill much respected 61
Burial 31st December 1815 St Nicholas Newcastle aged 61
There are other William Brumwells burials in Newcastle
Regards
Valda
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Hello all, Apologies for the mis-reading of the surname: apparently my eye surgery hasn't been as successful as I would have hoped. :'( The Wood fiche shows the surname on Catherine's baptism to be Brumell...... In looking at the other family: William and Ann.....the entries reveal that this William was spelled William Brumwell (!!) a native of Warden Hill, Durham and his wife, Anne, was the daughter of John English of Newborough near Hexham. Indeed, then the two gents do not appear to be closely related, if at all. Pat
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Hi Pat
I was meaning the surname seems to get spelt in various ways - Brumell, possibly Bromell but looks to be mostly Brumwell and that's probably how it should be spelt.
Are you able to confirm whether the Isabella baptised in 1784 could be a daughter of the same man who later had children with Elizabeth Gordon. That might help to confirm he was married twice and would make sense of the criminal conversation trial in 1793 and potentially why the marriage to Elizabeth did not take place straightaway.
Criminal conversation
'a common law action brought by a husband by which he claimed damages against an adulterer'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adultery
Regards
Valda
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Hello Valda, sorry but the fiche I have here at home for St. Nicholas parish baptisms only extends from 1791-1812. :'( Pat
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I just came across this topic by chance today and so glad I did. I am in New Zealand. My wife is related to Henry Layton Stephenson (who is John's brother), through Henry's 2nd Marriage to Annie Sheehan. 1st Marriage was to Isabella Parks. (Amended actually is Park)
Henry was born 11-1-1832 in Singhee Bengal India. His father John was at that time Superintendant of the HEIC Saltpetre Factory in Tirhoot Behar, having left the UK in 1829 being the year John Atlantic Brumwell Stephenson was born during the voyage. Henry and John were baptised 1-4-1833 and as previously mentioned in previous posts John was recorded as John Bromswell Stephenson.
Whilst in Bengal John Snr wrote a number of Articles for the Journal of the Asiatic Society Bengal, (See Vol's 1 to 5 1832-1836 available online throgh Google Books Search) a Treatise on the Manufacture of Saltpetre and a number of Journals. I also believe he was responsible during one of his journeys in Tirhoot for finding a relic which was to prove of great significance to Buddhism. This was donated by him to the Asiatic Society.
Having read these Articles it is clear that John Snr was a very well educated and intelligent man. He is also stated to have been a well known Chemist involved in the Tyne Chemical Industry for a good number of years before going to India.
From what I can ascertain the Family returned around about 1838, this being when all the other children born in India and Leonard who was born in England in 1838 were baptised at Bishopwearmouth. In 1841 they were living at the Peak Alum Works where John Snr was the 'Agent' (my wife and I visited there July last year on our first big OE and it is a very lovely location),although the 1841 Scalby Census has all the family being born in Yorkshire we know this is incorrect (at least for Elizabeth and the Children exclulding Albert).
Alfred Septimus Stephenson was born in Heworth in 1843 a year before John Snr died. John died December 1844 at Heworth Shore (occupation stated as Chemist) interestingly burial records St Mary's Heworth were under spelling of Stevenson.
Elizabeth died 1878 at 19 Ravensworth terrace Gateshead (part of this building is now located at the Beamish Historical Centre and again we visited this last year also).She is stated as having been buried at St Mary's Gateshead but I wonder if she would have been buried with John.
For some time I couldn't understand the situation with Elizabeth Gordon Brumwell and her siblings (born 1804-1809) being all illegitimate with mother being Elizabeth Gordon and Father William Brumwell (a Surgeon) given the Social Stigma and William's standing in the Community. However a Brumwell relative provided the clue to the Serial Illegitimacy as William was previously married to Susannah Wilkinson but they seperated following her Adultery (as documented in previous post re the Trial of 1793, at it was only in 1810 (presumably on Susannah'S Death) that Willam and Elizabeth were able to marry. Catherine being born 1811 and after marriage hence being recorded as 1st child of the marriage.
Maggie360 I would love to get a copy of John Snr's Journal of the voyage to India when you have transcribed, if possible.
I have more information on most of the family which I have gathered and happy to provide.
For those with interest in the Brumwell connection I would recommend getting a copy of the newly reprinted book ' The Peninsular war 1808-1812 Letters of a Weardale soldier, Lieutenant John Brumwell, by William Morley. Eggleston 1912. Page 95 refers to William Brumwell's daughter (Elizabeth) marrying Mr Stephenson a chemical trader on the Tyne and their son born during a voyage to India in 1829 ......' Book also has a genealogy of the Brumwell's. It is available Amazon.comand cost me US$10.99 plus postage.
Also available Amazon Uk 'The Trail at Large of Sir Matthew White Ridley,Bart....for criminal conversation with the wife of Mr William Brumwell,... before Lord Kenyon, at Guildhall, March 4th 1793...' Cost was GBP18.19 plus postage.
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As a F/u to above John Snr's Death Cert. Registration District Gateshead Union in the sub District of Heworth 1844 Vol 24 page 97 entry 273. Date of Death was 4th of December 1844 Heworth Shore John Stephenson Age 54 Operative Chemist, cause of death Hydrothorax, informant Elizabeth Stephenson present at death Heworth Shore.
Burial record Gateshead District Record No 624837.2, Location Heworth, Church St Mary Anglican, 5 December 1844 John Stevenson of Heworth Shore age 54.
Children of John Stephenson & Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson (Nee Brumwell)
John Atlantic Brumwell Stephenson b 18-6-1829 at sea Atlantic Ocean on board ship Argo. Chr Calcutta 1-4-1833
Henry Layton Stephenson b 11-1-1832 Singhee Bengal India. Chr Calcutta 1-4-1833.
Harriet Elizabeth Indianna Stephenson b 4-10-1833 Singhee Bengal. Chr 21-9-1838 Bishopwearmouth.
Catherine Mary Layton Stephenson b 21-7-1835. Chr 21-9-1838 Bishopwearmouth.
Leonard Quintus Stephenson b16-3-1838 Bishopwearmouth. Chr 21-9-1838 Bishopwearmouth.
Albert Peak Stephenson b 29-10-1840 Peak Staintondale Scarborough Chr?
Alfred Septimus Stephenson b 6-10-1843 Heworth Shore. Chr?
I would be interested if anyone can give reason for the name Layton as it is not only repeat in these children but in later generations as well. Must be of some significance. I have not been able to locate John & Elizabeth's marriage details but would guess abt 1828/9
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oops just re checked my records Henry Layton Stephenson's 1st wife was Isabella Park (not Parks). Married 4-4-1853 Newcastle
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Well hello to another link in the family tree! I too found this website/forum by complete chance and have been amazed with the links found to the Stephenson family with you, Buffers and Brian.
Your information has been a very important piece of the puzzle helping us solve the mystery of when he died. Do you know where or when he was born? I am also trying to find information about Indiana, born Harriet Elizabeth Indianna, and Leonard Quintus. Interestingly the only Leonard Quintus Stephenson I found was in Amereica. Had you already seen the information on John Atlantic? I have also found a copy of a poem by him but it is all in dialect and quite difficult to read!
I am trying to complete a tree which shows all the descendants so far and would love you to add your information. Maybe I could email you a copy so far?
As to the journal I am hoping to copy and bind the pages by next week so so let me know your address via email.I think you can send me a private reply back for this.( Unfortunately there will be a small cost just to cover postage and copying if that is alright with you. I now have three copies to send)
Regards, Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
Happy to help with your research if able. I have a reasonable amount of info on the above children including Certificates or other collaborating info(birth,marriage,death etc).
Your Family history suggests a link to 'THE George Stephenson' well I am pleased to say that is our understanding also. However as there is no actual direct link to George or his son Robert it would have to go through Georges Siblings or more extended family. So far I have not been able to establish where our actual link is. However Henry Layton Stephenson was certainly involved in the railways and Family history was that he certainly accompanied Robert Stephenson o'seas building railways and bridges and that he drove the first train in India. Whilst the latter is possible I think it more possible that this was the first train on the 'Madras and Southern Marratta Railway Line'. I have a photo of Henry with his train in India 1864. If you click on the link below you can get some info on this. Henry is the one in the white shirt kneeling in the foreground with his dog. Perhaps someone with access to UK or Indian Railway railwaymen records can add some more info?
http://www.irfca.org/steam/history3.html
As to John Snr's birth around 1790/95 I have not been able to trace him or as previously mentioned his marriage. Possibility is that could have occurred o'seas.
Research from NZ is rather difficult, though more info now coming online which certainly helps and at times I have engaged a Genealogist to do some research for me (she tracked down John's death for me).
Some area's that I think could be fruitful, if people in the UK are able to conduct research would be on Tyneside Historical Society, the British Library and or the Royal Asiatic Society in London. This would relate to the Tyneside Chemical Industry pre 1829 and again 1841 to 1844, the British Library to see if HEICO have records of his appointment as Superintendent to its Saltpetre Factories in Behar Bengal from 1829 and the Royal Asiatic Society for any info they may have, given his Articles and Journals written in India.
Maggie I am more than happy to pay for the cost of printing binding and posting a copy of the journal to me. i will try the email link to make direct contact with you.
Ian
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I have a PDF on JA Stephenson's writings which includes his signature (I believe was from his personal copy) which I can send to you. I have more info on Indianna and I see I omitted in earlier post to say she was also born Singhee.
Leonard is the odd one out as I can't find anything on him once he left home ie after 1861 Census.
I have photo's of Henry, one in his full Masonic garb (I think he was a Grand Master ) which shows his likeness to J A Stephenson. I will see if I can put this on post later.
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This all sounds so interesting. I have already looked at the link you sent and can't believe thats Henry! John's work in India is fascinating to see too, not that I understand too much of it but it is obvious he was a well respected expert in his field. When I read the journal I could tell he was very well educated and interested in science. If you give me your email address I can email you a couple of the pages to give you some idea of it. On the day JAS was born he is very pragmatic, states Mrs Stephenson has just given birth then continues his comment on weather etc! Maggie
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Sorry folks it pays to stop think and read. It was Catherine I forgot to include birth place and this was Bengal presumably also Singhee.
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Catherine is my mother's great grandmother so I'll send you a photo of her too. In letters to her husband she calls herself Mary just to add to the confusion.
Regards Maggie
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Thanks Maggie that would be great.
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Maggie you asked earlier about Indianna. According to my records (and as you previously mentioned the girls seem to use various parts of their names from time to time, I suppose what is more in fashion at the time) she was at time of 1861 Census going under the name of Elizabeth born abt 1834 East Indies and married to a Luke Scott born 1823 a Glass Cutter(I believe a widower as one of children was already 14 meaning she would have to have been married at age 13/14 which I doubt) living at Westoe South Shields. In 1871 Census still going under name Elizabeth shown born abt 1823 Calcutta India now living 74 Chichester Place Gateshead and now has a daughter age 1 named Indianna. Luke died 1873 Sunderland. Elizabeth then remarried to a widower Hugh Lyall a Machinist after 1874 (his wife Ann died1874) and reverted back to calling herself Indianna in 1881 Census showing born abt 1835 Singhea East Indies and now living at 7 Radbourne Tce Gateshead. Daughter Indianna Scott living with her and age 11. She had no children from this marriage. In 1891 Census living 11 Worley Ave (I couldn't read properly so may not be quite correct) Gateshead and daughter Indianna Scott still residing with her age 20.
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Hello,
I'm another JS researcher alongside Maggie, Valda and Brian. My wife is a descendant of Albert Peak Stephenson, the son born in Staintondale whilst JS was at the Alum works. All this news about JS' death and marriage is wonderful. Are you going to post the PDF you mentioned on the site or would you want my email address if we wanted a copy? We too went to Beamish last year - end of October - wish we'd known then about part of the Stephenson residence being there! You seem to have immense detail about the family. What's the possible connection with George Stephenson? I came across a newspaper article yesterday that said the time trials for George Stephenson's engine "Rocket" took place in 1829 - same year as John Stephenson's voyage from Plymouth to Calcutta - the one on which he wrote the journal and on which John Atlantic was born. I've got photos of my wife's grandfather, also called Albert Peak after his grandfather, if you're interested. Have you got the one of John Atlantic holding forth at the meeting?
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Hi Ian, Brian, Buffers and all. I have been trawling through census records again and found two things that I wondered if people knew. Firstly with regard to Indianna, I found the 1891 census with her second husband and daughter Indianna. I then looked in the 1901 Census where she is recorded as a widow and Housekeeper to a Jane Humble. I'm guessing husband died and daughter left home but interesting .
Secondly, determined to find more on Alfred Septimus and am puzzled by 1871 Census showing Eliz as head, which we know, Alfred as boiler maker, then presumably Jane is his wife? Also mentioned are three grandchildren..... whose children? Alfred I think is too young at 27 to have child 19,14 and 11. Any thoughts?! We know they are not John Atlantic's or Catherine Mary's. Are they Henry's? Regards, Maggie
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Hi All. I have attached (or at least I hope I have) the previously mentioned PDF on JAS and the photo of Henry Layton Stephenson Snr Johns brother (Henry had a son by same name born 1859 CastleEden) is his Masonic garb.
Maggie I have emailed to you seperately.
Buffer if it dosent work then contact me by message with your email address and I will forward.
Ian
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Well that worked so here is another photo of Henry and by his 2nd Marriage daughter Beatrice and 2nd wife Annie. Photo is of their Railway house either in Timaru or Ashburton New Zealand. The family later moved to New Plymouth NZ.
Ian
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As the web link view of Henry and the Train in India 1864 was rather small I have included the photo now also.
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Hi Ian, Brian, Buffers and all. I have been trawling through census records again and found two things that I wondered if people knew. Firstly with regard to Indianna, I found the 1891 census with her second husband and daughter Indianna. I then looked in the 1901 Census where she is recorded as a widow and Housekeeper to a Jane Humble. I'm guessing husband died and daughter left home but interesting .
Secondly, determined to find more on Alfred Septimus and am puzzled by 1871 Census showing Eliz as head, which we know, Alfred as boiler maker, then presumably Jane is his wife? Also mentioned are three grandchildren..... whose children? Alfred I think is too young at 27 to have child 19,14 and 11. Any thoughts?! We know they are not John Atlantic's or Catherine Mary's. Are they Henry's? Regards, Maggie
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Yes the children are Henry's and Jane is Alfred's wife (Jane Ruddick).
Ian
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Hi everybody,
Going away for the weekend - back late Sunday. So lack of postings regarding all the exciting stuff that's going down doesn't indicate a lack of interest! Ian - put me down for a copy of whatever you have - cost isn't a problem - I'll send you a direct email when I get back. Maggie - Jenny and I are biting our nails re the journal - not long now eh? I'll contact you too regarding post and cost when we get back.
David
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Hi there, With regard to Henry Layton and Robert Stephenson travelling out to India together, would there be evidence in Passenger Lists of ships going out to India say from 1850 onwards? Have briefly looked at the Ships list site but no luck yet! Robert's company the Vulcan Foundry certainly supplied a lot of engines to India according to their website......
Do we know if Henry's first three children stayed in this country or did they join the new family in India / New Zealand at some stage? Also when and why did he go to New Zealand?
I have had a friend cast his eye on the Mason photo and he says he was a high ranking Mason and is going to see if he can find out more.
I have also re read the information on Elizabeth and it is very interesting. What I still find puzzling is she was called Susan on the FIBIS website in the 'Surety and Bond' when they went out to India in 1829. Again another case of different names chosen to be in common use. Regards, Maggie
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Went back through my records and in reviewing Henry's obituaries (one from New Plymouth's 'Taranaki Herald' and the other from the Asburton's 'Ashburton Guardian' ) on the 24-1 1907 & 31-1-1907 respectively, following his death on 23-1-1907 at New Plymouth, these show he was a Past Master of the De Burge Adams Lodge and that at his funeral attended by Masonic Members, four Past Masters acted as pall bearers.
Interestingly they also pointed to his service in the Railways for some 60 years or so, which included a combined 30 years service on the Great North-Eastern in England, Egypt and India before commencing his employment with the Railways in New Zealand in 1874 (including Ashburton, Timaru, Napier, Palmerston North and New Plymouth) and finally retiring in NewPlymouth in1904 after 30 years Service in NZ.
As to his character he was said to be a general favourite with the railway men and was excellent company. Of a genial nature, his friends were many and sincere.
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Maggie,
FIBIS Databases. Yes there is a Susan enterred as Mrs Stephenson for 1829, with the same Bond sureties as the John Stephenson also mentioned 1829 to reside 3 years to erect machinery. I have never seen any reference to Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson as being called by anything other than Elizabeth. Furthermore Susan it is not a name included in childrens names. If this Susan is in fact the wife of the John mentioned in FIBIS then I would say he is not our John.
Ian
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Regarding Indianna I have done a bit more searching as to her marriages to Luke Scott and Hugh Lyall and I think these are as follows (not confirmed with cert's etc):
Luke Scott married Mary Eleanor Robson 22-2-1846 St Hilda's church South Shields, She died 1st Quarter 1853 Newcastle and on 19-6-1853 Luke marr Elizabeth Stephenson same church as 1st marr. Luke died 2nd Qtr 1876 Gateshead (I previously said 1873 but appears more likely 1876 based on her subsequent remarriage but I could be totally wrong on this date).
As previousy mentioned Hugh Lyall's wife died 1874 . Now found Hugh Lyall and Elizabeth Scott married 1876 Gateshead.
Also found the marriage of her daughter Indianna Scott using surname of Lyall marrying 1902 Last Qtr Tynemouth (groom could be William Emery, Charles John Andrews or William Surtees as all listed on same page FreeBMD Index
Correction......... I now have certs and it wasn't Indianna's daughter that married 1902 but Indianna herself (3rd Marriage) to William Emery. Regards Ian 26-10-2010 See new post this date.
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More gaps filled in, thank you. Have posted your copy so should be with you soon! With regard to 'Susan' the employers name in the journal matches the name on the bond. I really don't know the answer unless a good old fashioned error on the bond? Regards, Maggie. Ps do we know any more about Alfred's later life?
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My great great grandfather was a William Layton Stephenson. He was born in England and died in New Zealand in 1926. His father was a Henry Layton Stephenson. Seems very coincidental to this family having the same second names. Does anyone have more information about Henry's (of this topics subject) off spring to see if it ties in to William Layton Stephenson?
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Hi Maggie,
I am looking forward to receiving it. Thankyou very much for sending. Let me know how much I owe you.
Yes that Susan if confirming details in the Journal also, does raise some questions.
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Hi Cowan,
Sounds like you are related. I will checkout my records tonight. Are you living in NZ also?
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Yes I am in NZ. William Layton Stephenson arrived with wife Frances (nee Newton) and son Harry as assisted immigrants at Lyttelton aboard the "Waikato" on 18 Jan 1879. There is no record in our family of his father Henry Layton Stephenson coming out here. Williams english marriage certificate does say that Henry Layton Stephenson was an "Engineer" and family stories talk about some possible link to the first steam train.
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Hi Cowan,
I'm in Wellington and yes you are related, through Henry's first marriage to Isabella Park 4-4-1853 in Newcastle. They were then living in Blandford St.
Children of this marriage were William John Stephenson b Warwickshire 9-1-1854, Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson b Hartlepool 1855, Henry Layton Stephenson b Castle Eden Easington 9-1-1859. All three children were Baptised St James's Castle Eden 30-1-1859. I have not found anyother children from this marriage. Isabella died probably some-time before 1867 (corrected 1-11-2010 as I had previously mis-typed as 1876 - note now established died 1862) as this is when Henry (Snr) remarried in India to Annie Sheehan. I have not been able to trace Isabella's death and could possibly have been in India.
William John Stephenson Marr Frances Newton(I didn't know surname until your post) nor do I know marriage details, but their son William Layton Stephenson was born 8-1-1880. You mention that Wiiliam John & Frances came to NZ 1878 and I also note his brother Henry came to NZ on the Waitangi sailing on 18-7-1878 and arriving 13-10-1878.
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Sorry typo your William sailed 1879
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My records (marriage certificate) say William Layton Stephenson not William John Stephenson
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Hi Cowan,
Both the IGI, Baptism Records and 1861 show either as being William John or William J. However looking at 1871 Census it is shown as William L. Perhaps his full name was William John Layton Stephenson. Either way I am pretty certain we are talking about the same person. Do you agree?
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Williams second name is definitely Layton according to his sons birth certificate as well as his marriage certificate. His childrens names were Harry Newton, William (Bill) Leonard, Alfred Ernest, and Florence (Flo) Annie Stephenson. There are some recurring names from Williams brothers which seems too coincidental. I will have another good look at all the posts and dates and see whether it all fits together.
Family stories talk about relations in Ekatahuna. Any thoughts?
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Hi Cowan,
No knowledge of Ekatahuna side.
Have just gone through a chart on the family as supplied by relative on Henry's 1st marriage side. They had the reference as William L Stephenson born Abt 1858 married to Frances and son William L Stephenson born 8-1-1880. They also had a date of death for William (Snr) as 4-6-1953. Does that tie in with your records.
I also searched online and as you said the marriage in Auckland Durham 1877 showed as between William Layton Stephenson and Frances Newton.
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Hi Cowan,
As you have the marriage certificate what are the parents details and witnesses
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Fathers: Henry Layton Stephenson, Engineer. William Newton, Blacksmith.
Witnesses: Thomas Lanchester, John Thomas Newton
According to the certificate William Layton Stepheson was 23 years old when he married on 13 May 1877 and Frances Newton was 21.
Childrens births were:
Harry Newton, 1878
William (Bill) Leonard, 1880
Alfred Ernest, 1883, and
Florence (Flo) Annie Stephenson 1885
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Sorry, slight typo, William Layton Stephenson
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Hi Cowan,
Thanks for the update. I don't think there is any doubt about being same family.
Did William (snr) settle in Ashburton with rest of family and do you have a photo off him. I have a photo album of Henry's with a lot of photos of family in NZ but most with no names, so possible I have one of him as well. Where in NZ are you living.
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Its amazing what you find sometimes. I have been researching Henry Stephenson for many years now and after recently posting his photo and his railway and masonic details the other day, I happened to goggle and found a reference to him in 'The Cyclopedia of New Zealand (Wellington Provincial District) General Government Offices 1897.
This had some inaccuracies such as his birth being in Newcastle, but clarified some facts and gave some new info. (I have expanded as necessary)
Confirmed working on North Eastern Railway England first as a cleaner,fireman &driver but he resigned in 1861 to accept a position of locomotive engine-driver on the Great Southern Indian Railway (Madras Presidency), you will recall my photo of him with the train was in 1864, and for thirteen years he was running the Company's fast service, and otherwise was acting as locomotive forman.
Confirmed that 1st wife Isabella Stephenson (nee Park) died1862 (so would be in India) and left 2 son's and 1 daughter (William, Henry & Elizabeth). In 1867 he married Miss Sheaham (Annie Sheahan married 14-9-1867 Negapatam Madras. Annie was only about 15 being born 1851 Trichinopoly Madras and her father was a William Sheahan Bandmaster 106th Regiment (2nd BN Durham Light Infantry) and her mothers details are unknown but apparently died giving birth) with whom he had 2 daughters ( Mary Charlotte Stephenson born India 1868 & Beatrice May Ann Stephenson born 22-5-1876 in Ashburton NZ)
The family came to NZ in 1874 arriving at Lyttelton.
It also goes on to describe his Masonic memberships and these are more extensive than said in his obituary and was a high ranking Mason. I have put the link under if you want to read the specific details.
http://www.nzetc.org/tm/scholarly/tei-Cyc01Cycl-t1-body-d4-d134-d6.html#n1180
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Good one. I find the Cyclopedia of NZ to be a bit innaccurate at times. I sent you a personal message to make email contact.
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Hi Cowan,
I emailed a reply yesterday at 1.55pm. Obviously not rec'd. I will send you my email address now via a personal message through this site.
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Hi Altza53; I`m Brian Stephenson living in U.K near Newcastle, also ex-resident of Low Fell, Gateshead where `Worley Avenuye` is located. You do have the spelling right by the way. I can tell you that Worley Avenue was a good address at that time, and indeed is again today. It became run down in the 1950`s-70's but is considered to be desirable address again following much refurbishment to the area. It can`t be more than 2 miles from the other known addresses the family lived at in Gateshead following their return from Staintondale in Yorkshire. The banks of the river Tyne, both Newcastle and Gateshead were the centres of much industry in the 1800's, with a lot of chemical production taking place on Gateshead side of the river in particular. Although the addresses around that immediate area were not good addresses they were close to the centres of production. Low fell was a comfortable distance away from the factories but within easy access of them. I was at Beamish yesterday as it happens; wish I had known that you were coming last year; if you intend to come back at any time it would be good to meet up with you.
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Appreciate the update. Yes I wish I had known about other Stephenson's in NewCastle last year also, but to be honest we only stopped there one night on the way up to Scotland, to go to St Mary's Durham to see if I could find Elizabeth's grave and see if any reference to John ( no such luck in even finding her grave) and the Stephenson Railway Society Newcastle (but this had closed. It was only while at St Mary's, now a family history centre, that one of the ladies there fortunately saw my Death Cert for Elizabeth and noticed the address at death (Ravensworth Tce) and she referred me to the Beamish Centre.
Brian is there any possibility you could check out the St Mary's Church Heworth to see if John has a grave stone etc
Ian
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Hello Ian and Brian,
I've been reading your stuff regarding John and Elizabeth Stephenson's burials/graves etc. I Googled St Mary's church Heworth and discovered a photographers site where they photograph all the gravestones in various churchyards and post them on their site free. It would seem that they've done St Mary's Heworth. However, I don't seem to be able to get their search engine to work properly. Care to have a go? You can find the site at www.stmaryschurchheworth.com/new_page_mainwindow.htm . It's not very clear whether this site is dedicated to Heworth church or has lots of others that have been photographed too.
David
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ALTZA53 and Buffers; I`ll have look at that site and see if I can locate anything on it. Funnily enough, I was going to have a look at the churchyard next Thursday when I`m off work; if I come up with anything I will photograph and post it. I found my great uncle Andrew's war grave in Gateshead in less than five minutes, so if my luck holds that will be great. I`m hoping to get another line on John Stephenson by checking out his educational history; I may get a link to that from the Asiatic Society; its possible that he may have mentioned his background in one of the articles they published. Its a long shot, but as he worked on Tyneside he may have qualified there too; I`ll try checking with Newcastle and Durham Universities...unless any of us have done that already?
Brian
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Hi
Durham University claims to be the third oldest univesity founded after Oxford 1116 and Cambridge 1209. London University claims the third spot from Durham by a year.
'Several attempts to found a university at Durham took place, notably under the reigns of Henry VIII and Oliver Cromwell. However, The University of Durham (now sometimes called Durham University) was established by Act of Parliament in 1832 specifically with the title 'University'. Students were admitted onto degree programmes on that basis. However its Royal Charter was not conferred until June 1, 1837 and the first students graduated a few days later.'
'The University of Newcastle traces its origins back to the establishment of Newcastle University Medical School in 1834 in the city of Newcastle upon Tyne. It served as the College of Medicine of Durham University from 1851 to 1937 when Durham and Newcastle re-organised their colleges into a federal university structure.'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_oldest_university_in_England_debate#Durham_University
Regards
Valda
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Buffers, I`ve tried the grave yard site you mentioned; I can`t get it to work either. I`ll have a look down there at the churchyard next week.
Brian
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Hi All,
Regarding John's educational qualifications, I also thought that I might get some indication from his Articles in the Asiatic Society Journals, but unfortunately I didn't find any such reference. Durham university looks a good possibility. Besides Chemistry he has shown a great understanding of Geology, Biology and Astronomy.
My earlier reference to the St Mary's I visited, was 'Gateshead'. Hope you have more luck at Heworth Brian.
Maggie I have received the Journal. Thankyou so very much. Very interesting and insightful. Will certainly form part of my most valuable items of the Stephenson Family History Collection. Also you did a great job on transcribing and adding other useful images and explanations.
Ian
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The following link works, but no reference to Stephenson/Stevenson yet been transcribed or photographed.
http://stmaryschurchheworth.com/
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Hi
see previous post - Durham University was not established until 1832.
A word of warning my virus check did not like some elements of the St Marys site - it would not let me open grave photographs Q-T and came up with the warning that it was infected by
HEUR:Trojan.Script.Generic
Regards
Valda
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Thanks Valda, that may be why I can`t access images, although I received no warning. As soon as you mention`TROJAN`my instinct is not to go there.
Brian
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Hi Ian,
Now that you have given us all the details of JS's death registration (after my months of fruitless research!!) we're going to treat ourselves to a copy of his death certificate. We'd also like to get Elizabeth's of course but before I order it, I'd just like to check with you that I've got the info right.
You've posted all JS' details on the site - date, volume & page number etc. Maybe I haven't looked closely enough at your postings but the only info I can find that you've given about Elizabeth's death is the year - 1879. I've searched FreeBMD and found death record listings for two people of her name in Gateshead district in 1879. One died aged 46 so that can't be her. The other died aged 76 in the December quarter of that year so that looks like it could well be her. However, I'd really like to get my facts as straight as possible before ordering the certificates because from experience I know it's possible to get it wrong.
For example, on the FreeBMD site, as well as the relevant John Stephenson's death, (listed as you quite correctly say in Volume 24, on Page 97) they also list the death of another John Stephenson in the same volume but on page 95. Also from experience, I know that this might be a mistake by FreeBMD but equally, it may indeed be the death of someone else of the same name. On the FreeBMD site, for some reason, the search engine does not bring up death ages for records as early as 1844 so without your info, I wouldn't be able to tell which was the correct record for "our" John Stephenson. The ages on the two Elizabeth Stephenson death records seem to show that the 76-year-old must be the correct one but before I send for the certificate, do you reckon this is her?
David
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Hi David (Buffers),
Re JS Death Cert I had to order both of the 1844 Dec Qtr certs. One to establish which was correct and if both possibly related to same person registered by other family members. As it transpired both completely different one our JS the other for a young child (unfortunately I discarded that cert so havn't got more info). In checking my actual order with GRO details were 1844 D Qtr vol 24 p97 (on cert itself entry No is 373).
As to EGS I don't have my order details with GRO but the following from her Death Cert. 1878 Gateshead No 493. d 31-1-1878 19 Revensworth Tce, Age 72, widow of John Stephenson an Analytical Chemist died Apoplexy JAS in attendance registered 1-2-1878.
Hope that all helps.
Ian
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Thanks for that Ian - so in fact the death of the 76 yr old Elizabeth that I had pencilled in wasn't the right one. Good job I emailed you. I'll look again
David
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Just looked up on free BDM. Ref is Gateshead Ist Qtr 1878 Vol 10a page 457
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Hi everyone,
I've ben advised that I don't have the authority to post John Atlantic's photo on the site (the one of him holding forth at the meeting) so I've had to remove it - sorry.
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Henry Layton Stephenson is wearing the regalia of the Royal Arch Lodge (Red Lodge).
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The recurring name Layton may be derived from East or West Layton, Richmond, North Yorkshire, not too far from Darlington in England where the first passenger railway was located.
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Over the past week or two, I've been in touch with the parish council at Heworth and a very kind and co-operative lady there offered (weather permitting) to walk round the graveyard to see if John and/or Elizabeth's grave could be found. I got this email last night:-
"It was a mild autumn day today, so my husband had a stroll in the churchyard as promised.
There are three visible Stephenson headstones of an appropriate vintage - perhaps there are more, as some stones are face-down and others are indecipherable due to erosion or surrounded by dense foliage. Three is surprising, as Stephenson is not an uncommon name in these parts, so we might have expected there to be more.
Unfortunately, none of those three seem to relate at first sight to "your" John and Elizabeth, but we have recorded the details for you in case you are able to make a connection.
Stone 1
Ann Stephenson, wife of Forster Stephenson - died 27/12/1831, aged 40 years.
Barbara Stephenson, sister of Forster Stephenson, died 23/06/1847, aged 72 years.
Elizabeth... (frustratingly, the remainder of the stone is badly eroded and any further inscriptions are completely illegible).
Stone 2
Benjamin Stephenson - died 16/12/1884, aged 67 years.
Ann Stephenson (wife of Benjamin) - died 27/06/1844, aged 36 years.
These are the parents of Mary Ann Craig, wife of Foster Craig (again a "Forster" first name, but without the middle "R" this time).
Mary Ann Craig (nee Stephenson) - died 29/12/1931 aged 89 years.
Stone 3
("The family resting-place of Forster and Elizabeth Stephenson of Felling Shore")
Joseph Gawen Stephenson - died 09/01/1867, aged 2 years 10 months.
Ann Stephenson - also died 09/01/1867, aged 11 months.
Elizabeth Stephenson - died 05/11/1873, aged 43 years
Forster Stephenson - died 16/09/1877, aged 50 years
Joseph Septimus Stephenson - died 29/03/1905, aged 36 years.
Elizabeth Ann Stephenson - died 18/05/1931, aged 70 years.
William Stephenson - died 03/12/1933, aged 81 years.
(because the second "Joseph" has the middle name "Septimus", you might assume that he was the seventh child and that therefore at least another two brothers or sisters are unrecorded).
I think you have to assume that the two "Forster Stephensons" are related, possibly "Foster Craig" also.
If any of this is of interest, we could easily take photos and send them to you.
Regarding the comments in my second paragraph, another lead you might consider is that Northumberland and Durham Family History Society ran a project some years ago to record headstones before the ravages of the weather, wanton vandalism and the craze to "tidy up" churchyards destroyed many monumental inscriptions forever. I'm fairly sure that St Mary's churchyard was one they planned to cover, so it could be worth your while to check with them. They are on the internet, at www.ndfhs.org.uk"
So - not the best news but as she says, John and Elizabeth's stone(s) may be illegible or lying face down. Interesting though that there is a Joseph Septimus Stephenson on the 3rd stone. The lady who did the search isn't aware, of course, of the implications of the "Septimus" name. This grave must be of "our" Stephenson family. Does anyone have any info that connects any of the names on this stone? (Or any of the other 2 stones for that matter).
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Having done a bit of "Septimus" and "Quintus" research, I think perhaps I got a little overoptimistic regarding the "Septimus" link on the gravestone in Heworth churchyard. If you do a Google search on Septimus or Quintus you find quite a lot of people given these names in the 19th century. So maybe there is no real link with the Heworth graves.
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Buffers, did you ever get the photo of Albert Peak in WW1 naval uniform posted? I can`t find it. My grandfather, John Smith Stephenson was in the navy in WW1; I have a photo of him in WW1 uniform; it would be interesting to compare them. My grandfather was at the battle of Jutland, he was on the engineering side of the Navy; do you know anything about Albert Peaks Naval occupation?
Brian
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Sorry Brian, I'll dig out the photo and post it - and I'll ask my wife Jenny (Albert Peak's granddaughter) if she has any details about his naval service.
David
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Hi All,
I have now got the Marriage Certs for Harriet Elizabeth Indianna Stephenson and I need to make a correction to my earlier post on this.
The marriage 1 Nov 1902 Tynemouth was not of her daughter Indianna, but actually her own marriage (being her 3rd). Husband was William Emery. Their address 44 Percy St. Her father dec'd John Stephenson, Chemist. Her age is incorrectly shown as 59.
I believe I have also located Daughters Marriage, under her own fathers name of Scott rather than step-father's of Lyall. Marriage Sept Qtr 1893 Morpeth Durham, indianna Scott, spouse John Carr.
1901 Census 113 Feront St Bedlington, Scotland Gate Northumberland. John is a Grocer working on own account. They have 2 children age 7 & 1 yrs.
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Thank you for update. Could I email a copy of tree I have put together so far for you to check Ian? Brian and David have very kindly given me their outline trees.
Now I wonder how best to go about finding marriage certificate for John and Elizabeth?
We know birth date and initials, from Elizabeth.
I guess we have to assume they were married in UK but possibly not.
We know where she lived from her parents' history so maybe start with this?
It is so crucial to going back another generation as his father would be on certificate...
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Hi Maggie,
John & Elizabeth's marriage has eluded me and yes any breakthrough in this regard would be great. Personally I think the best way of getting any further would be through the East India Company records at British Library re his appointment as Superintendent its Saltpetre Factory Bihar 1829. Unfortunately not something I can do from here in NZ.
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Hi
Unfortunately as John and Elizabeth married before the start of civil registration 1st July 1837 very little information would be on the parish register marriage. If his father signed as a witness (though no relationship would be given) or if he married as minor there would be some information. His parish of residency for the three weeks prior to his marriage would also be given.
Regards
Valda
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So it looks like guesswork for John Stephenson's birth at the moment. I'll see if I can have a go at the British Library to research the East India Company records but I don't know how much is possible on-line. It will probably mean a visit.
Meanwhile Brian, I've got egg running down my face. My wife's grandfathers were both in the RN in WW1. The naval pictures she has are not of Albert Peak Stephenson but of the other one - sorry - and she doesn't know anything about his service either. However we are determined on some research. Jenny's mother, Doris Stephenson was born in 1917, the eldest of Albert's 5 children . They are all now deceased except one. He was a late arrival, born 1938, when his parents were in their mid 40's. He lives in Weymouth, the last place that his father Albert served as a coastguard before he retired. The problem is that this is about 200 miles from us and we haven't spoken to him for years. He's also a bit difficult to contact - ex-directory etc. Nevertheless, we have plans afoot to visit Wemouth in December. With a bit of luck, he'll have photos of Albert in uniform, info about his service and who knows, he may have info and photos going back to previous generations - fingers crossed.
David
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Hi
Albert Peak Stephenson's RN service at The National Archives
Royal Navy Registers of Seamen's Services
Stephenson, Albert Peak
Official Number: J5399
Place of Birth: Newcastle, Northumberland
Date 21 May 1892
Catalogue reference ADM 188/657
Series Admiralty: Piece 5001-5500
You can order a copy online from TNA
http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/details-result.asp?Edoc_Id=7076509&queryType=1&resultcount=1
Regards
Valda
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Thanks for that Valda.
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Hello All,
I think I have traced what may well be the circumstances of the Stephenson family in Heworth, between the move from Staintondale and JS's death. "Heworth Shore" the location given on his death certificate, seemed a bit strange to me - the village of Heworth is over 2 miles from the Tyne so how could it have a "shore". So I dug around and got the following info extracts from a Gateshead history site. The notes are dated 1856.
"Felling is also a village in Heworth township, situated about two miles east-by-south of Newcastle, where there are extensive chemical works and other manufactories. There is a school here belonging to the chemical works, a railway station, and a police station."
"Heworth Shore is, as its name implies, on the banks of the river, two-and a-half miles east-by-south of Gateshead, adjoining Felling to the east. Here are numerous manufactories of various kinds, which afford employment to a considerable number of persons."
The notes also list these manufacturers and the list includes the following:_
"Slue Hell, Felling - Armstrong George, colour manufacturer"
So, reading between the lines, it seems that in JS's time, Heworth was a "township" and covered a lot more ground than the village of Heworth does today, including Felling and reaching right down to the Tyne. The notes also say that the industry there included a chemical works - JS's trade. As can be seen, it is also recorded that one of these industries was George Armstrong, a "colour manufacturer". In view of the fact that JS's employer at Staintondale - Peak Alum Works, mined for a substance that was used in the dying process, it seems highly probable that George Armstrong was his employer during his time in Heworth. The logic is fairly convincing - the Peak Alum Works was going downhill as we know, so JS moved on to work for another manufacturer connected with the dying industry. His occupation on his death certificate - "Operative chemist" reinforces the theory.
What "Slue Hell", the address of George Armstrong's company, means, I have no idea - maybe it should be "something Hall". There are many spelling errors and undecipherable things in the notes - probably due to difficulties in transcribing the original handwriting.
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Hi David,
What about Thomas Bramwell & Co Chemical Works Heworth Shore, or William Stephenson/Stevenson Co Jarrow Chemical Works. There were a lot of Chemical Works in the district so it would be risky to assume John Stephenson worked for one particular Works, without any clear proof or reason.
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Yes, you're right Ian. Shouldn't assume anything, but the "colour" reference is a strong indication. The main thing is that JS's death location at Heworth Shore does not conflict with the well-inland geographical location of Heworth village itself because the Heworth township area covered quite a bit of ground and extended down to Tyneside. The family home was no doubt close to the Tyne. This, coupled with his description as "Operative chemist" on his death certificate (which means that he was still working at the time of his death), and the existence of the nearby chemical works (quite a few of them as you point out), provides strong evidence as to why the family moved to the Heworth area.
David
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Hi David,
I agree totally that John S was in Heworth Shore due to his work and that it would be associated with either Alum, Salts, or Alkali's. This could mean he was involved in dyes, soap-making or glass-making plus a few other possibilities. I also think there is a good possibility that there would have been a family connection to the Works, given the known association with the Tyne Chemical Industry for many years before going to India in 1829.
Thomas Bramwell's Heworth Chemical Works was also involved in Dyeing, including Purples. John S wrote whilst in India re Indigo dyes. Previously Elizabeth Brumwell (nee Gordon) had on one register been referred to as Elizabeth Bramwell Brumwell.
Although I cannot find a reference at the moment I am sure I previously saw that there was a Bramwell & Stephenson Chemical Works. (Could be the fog of memory).
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Hi
The official catalogue of the Great Exhibition 1851 lists
Bramwell, T. & Co. Heworth Chemical Works Newcastle-upon-Tyne, Manu - Crystals of prussiate of potnas of commerce. Ferrocyanide of potassium of chemists, used for dyeing blue in place of indigo
Regards
Valda
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Hi All,
Seems we have all come to a stop at the moment as regards to any new pieces of information. Certainly I have not had any further luck with my searching. Hopefully 2011 may be a further turning point.
Anyway wish you all a Merry Christmas and a Very Happy New Year (and for those of you in the UK I hope things get warmer very soon)
Kind Regards
Ian
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Yes it has been quiet for awhile. Coincidentally I was reviewing all the posts yesterday and writing up some notes from some of the comments.
It has been an impressive combined effort to get so much information in such a short space of time. Thanks for everyones input. There are a few alleyways to explore yet and I look forward to more postings in the New Year.
Merry Christmas.
Bryan
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Hello everyone. Good to know that everyone hasn't lost interest. When the arctic weather decides to return to where it belongs, we're planning a trip to Geordieland to see if we can unearth anything - Newcastle Archives, Heworth etc. We're probably going to visit Staintondale too. Have a good festive season.
Buffers
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Just a quick note before the rush of Christmas gets underway in earnest.
I just wanted to say a very big thank you to all of you who have made this research into John Stephenson such an interesting and eventful journey.
I hope you all have a very Happy Christmas and New Year.
Thank you to Valda as well for her invaluable hand at crucial stages in the research.
Look forward to keeping in touch in 2011..!
Best wishes,
Maggie
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hi everyone i was thrilled to find all of these fantastic threads.i am doing a bit of snooping for my mother in law joy stephenson,who's gg grandfather was john atlantic stephenson.went through ancestry.com came up with all the same sensus details for the different decades etc. still cant really come up with much info about john atlantics father,john.my mother in law tells me that john atlantis mother was actually known as bessie gordon..but this bessie could also have been john atlantics grandmother as she too was elizabeth gordon.unfortunately my moter in law lives in england and hubby(daniel ggg grandson of john atlantic)and i live in ireland .we would really need to get together and pool our info.she would really be interested in john stephensons journal my mum in law says john atlantic was born on the way to calcutta to join john senior.cant wait to give her all this great info thanks to you all.
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hi everyone i just spoke with my mum in law ,joy stephenson ,on the phone.she is absolutely positive that john atlantics mother elizabeth was brummell as she has john atlantics original birth certificate.also the ship john senior sailed to calcutta on was called the argo brummell,perhaps it was owned by elizabeths father dr.william brummell.she also has original water colours and songs/poems by john atlantic stephenson,aswel as a picture of him.john atlantic was her great grand father.he had one son phillip.phillip had three sons one of which was denis who was my mum in laws father.unfortunately though she too is stumped with regards to john seniors birth ,birth place ,death etc.she thinks there might be a possibility married twice.hope this note has cleared up the confusion between the different brummell spellings.
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Hello and welcome Dianecon!
This is amazing that you have found the connection via Rootschat. As you have probably read in all the posts so far it has been a roller coaster of discovery for us all. If you would like I can email you some pages of the journal written by John Stephenson senior, including the page where he briefly describes the birth or his son, John Atlantic! He calls the ship, a brig, just The Argo, so it was very interesting to see you thought the ship was called The Argo Brummell? Also in the research so far I thought JAS has two children, Annie and Philip? I could be wrong so please let me know!
The original artwork would be fascinating to see. I wonder if you have seen the two watercolour pictures done by JAS in the Tyne and Wear museum along with a beautiful vintage photo of JAS telling a story in the grounds of a ruin?I will get back to you in the next few days with the pages that might be of interest to you
and your mother in law.
As you probably have read, my relation to John Stephenson Senior is through my
mother who was his great great grand daughter.
Best wishes, Maggie360
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hi maggie i am just learning stuff from my mum in law she will be joinin everyone within the week .so that should be interesting.she doesnt have the internet herself but will access her sons computer.phillip had 3 sons but one died young i presume.she is totally sure about the brig the argo brummell as it is written clearly she actually read out the whole birth cert of john atlantic ,to me over the phone this evening.it is so eerie in old english speak.she is so excited.this is brilliant even though i am merely married to john atlantics ggg grandson.i am now calling my hubby"atlantic"i am finding it totally gripping.how about making The movie it would be fab.my email is * cant wait for joy mum inlaw to join she is extremely knowledgable.thank you so much for getting back to me.
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hi maggie again...sory i dindnt type my email clearly.i would love to get some of the journal.it is fantastic that people are still remembering where they came from,so many just arent bothered.my email * thanks again.x
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Hi Diane,
Good to see another family contact.
Actually John was married twice. First to Jane French 24-4-1853 Christ Church Tynemouth and they had 2 children Isabella Alexandra Stephenson B Gateshead 30-12-1863, Mary Stephenson B 1853 Gateshead. Jane died 17-12-1866.
Isabella married Carl Theodor Pihl 1883 Gateshead.
Second marriage to Ellen Grace Edwards 1876 Hampstead Middlesex and they also had 2 children Annie Grace Emily Stephenson b 9-1877 Northumberland, Philip Charles John Stephenson b 9-1882 Gateshead.
Annie married Hugh Hunter Bowden Abt 1907.
Philip married Sarah Clement 1907 Gateshead and he died 15-11-1938 Whitley Bay Durham.
Hope this fills in a few gaps for you.
Regards
Ian
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hi Ian.thank you for your info.i spoke to mum in law on the phone,all of your knowledge is correct but anne grace emily stephenson was known as grace as my mum in law heard talk of her as auntie grace.also i think she said she actually knew hugh bowden when she was a very young girl.very interesting stuff.thanks again.
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hello maggie my name is joy,maiden name stephenson(i am the mother in law in the message from diacon),i am the great granddaughter of john atlantic stephenson ,descended from his marriage to ellen grace edwards,my grandfather was philip charles john stephenson,son of john and ellen.i have in my possesion the original birth certificate,it reads argo brummell stephenson came sword in hand about 8.25 am in lat 34.350,long 1-32,then there is the signature of the captain of the argo and brig argo june 18th 1829.my great grandfather has written underneath certificate of my birth written by the capt or the brig argo,i was christened john atlantic on arrival at calcutta as my father did not like argo brummel and it is signed j.a.stephenson jan .5.1891.i also have 2 of his watercolours and a very fine photo of him in his old age.i am interested in elizabeth gordon would like to know mote about her,my father told me a rumour that had gone down the family that somewhere further back one of the family was the bastard child of the duke of gloucester but heaven knows if there is any truth in that.would be extremely interested in your journal of john atlantic ,yours sincerely joy.
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welcome joy d 43....did you read all the posts ,there is so much information.its a great read.
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Hi Joy,
Welcome. Its good to now have a direct link through you and Diane, with John Atlantic Stephenson's family. As you will have read in the Posts my connection is through his brother Henry.
Just wondering if your family has also been told or is aware of a link to 'THE George Stephenson'. Also does the name Layton have any meaning for you?
Would it be possible to get a copy of your John's Birth Cert?
Regards
Ian
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Hello Joy, You are yet another piece in the Stephenson puzzle!
I am sending some pages from the journal via Diane's email where hopefully you will be able to read them.
As Ian says a copy of John Atlantic's birth certificate would be very interesting to see. Maybe it is possible for you to scan it and post? Also the art work would be fascinating to see, especially if it was different to that in the museum archives.
The connection to THE George Stephenson has been handed down via my family too but without more knowledge of John( Snr) Stephenson's siblings we have come to a full stop. However, we will keep trying..!
Regards
Maggie
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hiya maggie thank you so much for the email those photos are in mint condition.family tree is so extensive.got the journal but unfortunately joy wont see it for a few days .she is in an internet blackspot so will have to go to her sons house.she recalls her fahers cousin ,micheal,going to australia.joy is really interested in going down the elizabeth brummell avenue.and really wants to know if any other members of the extended family heard of the iligitimate child of the duke of gloucster.she doesnt recall ever hearing about The george stephenson.it is just such a pity that there isnt more info on the original john or bessie gordon i am totally" googled out",and as i said we live in cork irelad and joy is in lincs. england.but just as a matter of interest joy has the stephenson nose and the picture of catherine mary layton stephenson proved that to me.i have to say maggie you have probably started a great connection between the widened families thats a good thing ,i still think you should think about making the movie,thanks again maggie,x
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maggie i forgot to say i believe john atlantic stephenson when he born on the ship, was originally named argo brummell stephenson, john senior didnt like this name hence john atlantic they were a bit eccentric with their names,i was a little confused and thought the ship was called the argo brummell so thats cleared up x
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Hi Diane,
So you're yet another John Stephenson descendant! I'm researching on my wife's behalf. She is descended from John Atlantic's brother Albert Peak Stephenson - another one of John's sons with a strange name, given to him because he was born at Peak Hill when his father John Sr. was an agent for Peak Alum Works. Albert Peak had a son Albert Henry and Albert Henry's son was also named Albert Peak - this was my wife's grandfather.
Your John Atlantic heirlooms sound wonderful. Your sudden appearance has generated a bit of activity on Rootschat after a few quiet months. There were several months of enthusiastic contact and swapping of information, followed by a lull which occurred because we all hit a brick wall when it came to finding birth and death details for John Sr.
In the spring my wife and I are going to come out of winter hibernation, get to Geordieland and visit Newcastle Records Office etc. With a bit of luck we'll break through the barrier and find John Sr.'s background.
Regards
David
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Hi Joy/Dianne,
Have not heard anything re the Duke of Gloucester in the Stephenson/Gordon side and have checked with my contact in the Brumwell side who says not heard of the rumour either.
Obviously still could have some substance but we need to get further down our family lines, which is the problem at the moment.
JAS was not quite correct re his baptism as this didn't occur on his arrival in Calcutta in 1829 nor under the name JAS, as both he and Henry were baptised together in Ghazeepore 1-4-1833 and JAS was named as John Bromswell Stephenson.
I have a copy of the actual Registry entry of 1-4-1833 for the 'District of Ghazeepore in the Archdeaconry and Diocese Calcutta' and I would take the Bromswell as a simple spelling error by the clerk, for the correct Brumwell. Also had John's birth stated as being ' Born at sea 18-6-1833' !!!!!!!!!!!!! Given that entry date was 1-4-1833, being before the supposed birth, that was an impossibility and as we all know was actually 1829.
Regards
Ian
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Dear all,
David suggested a summary of what we know so far about John senior would be a good idea so here goes! At the very least we will get an overview and who knows we might get a break through with collective minds.....
John Stephenson was listed as 46 in the 1841 census, so he was born about 1795? We do not know if he had any middle names, these could link him to his family.He was 12 years older than Elizabeth so it is possible he was married before(?) He married Elizabeth sometime before 1829 as she was pregnant with JAS on ship but where and when?.A marriage certificate would give a lot of information. On the census it was ticked that all family members were born in the county, presumably Yorkshire?, but this is not always reliable.
Before India we know he was well educated and a well known chemist in the Tyne Chemical industry: which one? The Tyneside Historical Society may have records?
He was then employed by James William Taylor according to the journal as he had to send to them for more money, no records so far found. He may have
worked for the East India Company, but we know for sure he was Superintendent for the HEIC Saltpetre factory in Tirhoot, Behar. The British Library may have
records? He wrote a Treatise on the the Manufacture of Saltpetre as practised by the Natives of Tirhoot in 1833. The Asiatic Society may have other articles?
Did he write a journal on the return journey?
What was the ship's name that brought the family home, and what was the date? Passenger lists?
He was buried in St Mary's Anglican church, Gateshead, 624837.2 and Gateshead Districr Council may have the records?
Please feel free to add to this,
Maggie
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Hi
His marriage will be in a church register and since it will be before civil registration (1st July 1837) it will not give any details of fathers. The main information, if relevant, is likely to come from witnesses names.
He may have left a will which might mention other family members. If so the will would either be proved in a local church court (and deposited in a county record office) or have proved at the Prerogative Court of York (online indexes at British Origins) or you could ask for a check by the Borthwick Institute where PCY wills are deposited. The same may be true of his father-in-law or possibly mother-in-law if she was left a widow.
Regards
Valda
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Thank you for that Valda. I had forgotten!
With regard to other writings of JS, I found in the newsletter of 'Gunpowder Mills Study group' of 1996 a review of a book by J Braddock about the principles of Gunpowder Manufacture in Madras 1829. Bound at the rear of this book was a memoir by John Stephenson on the 'Manufacture of Saltpetre,Description of the operations and proper plans to be used for the manufacture of Culmee and Cooteah, Calcutta, 1835. In it he describes the government factory at Singhea, Behar,Bengal and the local native producers of the region.
I wonder if before he went to India he was knowledgeable about the production of Saltpetre and Gunpowder and this may be another avenue to explore? Local history groups might be a starting point? It also raises a point about other published articles by him...!
Regards
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
I think if you re look at my first two posts on page 6, you will see the points you are trying to summarise, together with the other writings in the Asiatic Society Journals.
Ian
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hi everyone,i am posting on behalf of joy stephenson i spoke to her on the phone and she wishes to appologise for dissappearing from rootschat.as i already explained she doesnt have internet herself,she will be visiting her son this week and will login then.maggie, she asked me to tell you that she will be scanning JAS birth cert etc. she is sorry about delay.she wishes she had internet access so she could log in more often.unfortunately i have no information regarding the topic i can tell you that the weather in ireland is shocking :-[
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hi maggie,received copy of journal snippets and photos today via diane,it makes for fascinating reading,i would love any more pages you could send.we have scanned the photo and pictures to the computer and will get them onto root chat asap along with the birth certificate. yours sincerely joy
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Hi David,
Just been going back through Posts and besides noting your impending visit to Newcastle this Spring, you also previously said
"So it looks like guesswork for John Stephenson's birth at the moment. I'll see if I can have a go at the British Library to research the East India Company records but I don't know how much is possible on-line. It will probably mean a visit"
Any further intentions re this? as personally I believe could be very fruitfull searching through HEIC records.
Regards
Ian
PS: Are any of the other UK based family contributors able to do this.
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Hi All,
A possible result for family returning from Calcutta to Bristol 1837 onboard the St George. Mrs Stephenson and 4 children and Mr Stephenson.
http://books.google.com/books?id=px0YAAAAYAAJ&pg=RA5-PA22&dq=stephenson+1837+calcutta+shipping&hl=en&ei=8wNdTdG3K5KisAOIlI3kCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false
Ian
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Dear Ian,
Have been thinking about a possible trip to London to the British Museum as I can see it may offer a lot of information. Possibly at Easter and will go with my sister. Nearer the time I will make a list of avenues to explore so please add as many queries as you want and I will have a go. The entry for the Stephenson's return journey looks like the one!
Regards
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
Sound's good.
Ian
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I see I typed Museum! Meant Library!
When you look at their online catalogue, I'm assuming you can view these when you are there on request? Has anyone else used the British Library and can pass on any hints?
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
Before you go check their online site for admiitance requirements re ID required. They are very strict in this regard.
Ian
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Thanks Ian, have checked website and will go prepared. Will try advance registration too as it will enable me to ask for articles in advance and hopefully save a lot of waiting around. Catalogue appears online so you should be able to access it too? There also seems to be experts in each reading room so will try and find them and ask their advice.
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
I have had this and other Asiatic Journal information for some time as I eluded to in my original post. You might find it helpful in your search at British Library as it summarises some of John Snr's entries in the Asiatic Journal, confirms he came to India as a manufacturing Chemist on behalf of HEIC as well as confirming his standing as a professional chemist by Henry Piddington 'Esq', who had personal knowledge of him as a working chemist. See pages ,945,946,950 & Section V11.-Concluding Remarks on pages 953/954 in particular (note not all references to 'Stephenson' in this Article are highlighted by Google)
Ian
http://books.google.com/books?id=jwPgAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA950&dq=ghazeepore+stephenson&hl=en&ei=jENgTbiYFpGosAPxgPHECA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDsQ6AEwBTgK#v=onepage&q=ghazeepore%20stephenson&f=false
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Dear Ian,
Thank you for the link! I have been reading it and looking up Henry Piddington esq who sounds a fascinating gentleman in his own right, having been accredited with originating the term 'cyclone'! It may indeed give me more to go on at the BL. I had found other detailed articles on Saltpetre manufacture in other Asiatic Journals, but none of them gave the definitive statement that JS was employed by the company before he went out to India. He was obviously thought very highly of and beyond any ulterior motives in his research!
In reviewing all the info so far I noticed that on Catherine Mary's marriage certificate one of the witnesses was a James Bogie. He is quite possibly a friend of the groom but maybe an outside chance he was a family friend of JS and am looking into him, quite a distinctive name...
I have also emailed the Gunpowder Society history group who mentioned an original article they found by JS at the back of an old book. Unfortunately although they know of him and his work has been listed as important, they have no personal details.
Regards,
Maggie
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Am finding the font size displayed recently difficult to read. Is it just my iPad or has the size of print shrunk? Has anyone any ideas what I can do about it?!
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Hi Maggie,
Font OK on this site so must be your ipad.
Ian
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Maggie,
I went to British Library for a few hours in 2009 to search for one of JS Snr's Journals, in the hope it may give educational titles or any other reference that could assist in researching him further.
THe 1835 Journal was part of a rare book and could not be copied or scanned, but I was able to review.
British Library had the author down as John William James Stephenson, so I was quite exicited by this as only seen references as just John Stephenson. However in reviewing book the cover page showed the following:
'Treatise on the manufacture of saltpetre, descriptive of the operations and proper plans to be used for the manufacture of culmee & cooteah'
'Dedicated by permission to the Chamber of Commerce of Calcutta by John Stephenson, Calcutta 1835 Late Superintendant of the Hon Company's saltpetre factories in Behare'.
Where the BL got the name JWJS from this was unclear. However they did have another reference to a Elementary Treatise on Mechanics by JWJS but this was dated1864. In the end I concluded the 1835 book indexed to JWJS was incorrect.
Just mentioning this so you don't repeat this search when you are at BL. BL Ref:
http://catalogue.bl.uk/F/Q45IBS2IDSB1C38T3MLVSM29X33BSAGLRAHMXABEJRBNK4K19N-16024?func=find-acc&acc_sequence=027669987
Ian
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Hi Joy,
You've been quiet for awhile since your last post, when you were going to scan photo's and JAS birth cert. We are looking forward to hearing from you.
Regards
Ian
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Hi all,
Have been going back through my records and on Leonards Birth Cert 1838 Sunderland Bishopwearmouth, place of birth and father's residence was recorded as New Town. However the 1838 Baptism record ( which I have a copy) at St.Michael and All Angels Bishopwearmouth showed residence stated as being Story's Building. The way 'building' is written could easily be mistaken for NewTown.
My understanding is that Story's Buildings was located near to Hope St & Johnson St, to the West of St Michaels Church.
My question is does anyone know (or can find out) what the Story's Buildings were or who owned them. Or who lived their 1841 Census.
Valda also raised a ? mark re this in post 19 page 2 but no one appears to have picked up further. Might just give us another clue.
Ian
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Hi ALL,
This might or might not be relevant, but found this:
The new Chapel in John's St, Bishopwearmouth was erected in 1828 and consecrated by the Bishop of Durham in 1829. The Rev George Stephenson, M.A (was for 43 years curate of Bishopwearmouth), has been appointed Minister. He was still there in 1837. A relative of JS Snr? Will have to dig into further.
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Have spoken to Joy who apologizes for not being in contact. She has had difficulty in posting the information on JAS on Rootschat so is mailing it to me next week and I will try to put it on the website for everyone.
Have had a conversation with a retired professional genealogist in the Northumberland area today.He very kindly checked all the monument inscriptions locally for any information that may be of help. He also said there were many many chemical works packed into the area and has given me a list that I will follow up one by one and will look up the others mentioned in earlier posts. I have also thought that contacting the Tyne and Wear Archives and asking their help in looking up employees of various chemical works may be another way forward. Have made a preliminary trawl through wills, mainly via British Origins indexes but nothing so far.
I read the last information you posted to the genealogist and he said although it might be of interest he had never heard of the Story's buildings. Also Stephenson was a very common surname in the area unfortunately! However I will look on Ancestry and see what I can find.
When I go to the British Library probably the best thing to concentrate on is the East India company records, both pre 1829 in England and 1841-1844? if you think of other avenues to explore let me know.
Kind regards
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
All sounds good. Re Checking East India Co records, suggest you also include 1835 as this is when recorded as being 'former Superintendant of the Co's Saltpetre factories'.
Regards
Ian
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Hi all, am putting all the information from Joy on Rootschat as her access to a computer is limited.
First is a picture of JAS in later years but no date. Second is a photo of his son, Philip who was Joy's grandfather. Next is the handwritten birth certificate written presumably by Captain Billing recording JAS birth on the Argo. Next is a copy of a watercolour in Joy's possession, then a story in dialect.
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Sorry but again just can't post any images, in spite of them being under the size limit. So frustrating but will email everyone separately!
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Hi Maggie & Joy,
Thanks very much for wonderful copies relating to JAS, which will form a valued part of my Stephenson Collection.
Regards
Ian
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Hi - I'm a new contributor to your fascinating forum on the family of John Stephenson although I've been in touch with Ian by email for quite some time. My interest/descent is via the Brumwells but I've been intrigued and entertained by all of your correspondence concerning the various scions of the Stephenson family. I also have an original copy of JAS's monologue 'Haaks's Men' (Another of my ancestors was a Hawks Man and was killed in an accident at the foundry in 1831).
I've noticed that you're all keen to push back the Stephenson ancestry a little further and a few weeks ago I pointed out to Ian that there is a William Stephenson/Mary Layton marriage on the IGI at Romaldkirk for 1789 - shortly before John would have been born given his age at death of 54. Obviously, there are no known connections between the family and Romaldkirk but that Layton name is of interest given how often it was used as a middle name for Stephensons.
Romaldkirk does not have its baptisms included in the formal IGI parish record indexing programme but there are 2 user-submitted entries for a Harriet, born to William and Mary Stevenson [sic] of Romaldkirk, in 1791 and an Elizabeth in 1793. No John.
So far just speculation but yesterday I was able to pay a visit to Durham Record Office and take a first-hand look at the Romaldkirk registers on microfilm. I found the entries below including ... a John baptized on 11 April 1790.
4 Oct 1789 - William Stephenson of the parish of Middleton and Mary Layton of this parish were married in this church by Banns by me R. Baines, Minister
{ William Stephenson in the presence of us: { George Layton
{ Mary Layton { John [Barnes or Baines]
Note: Middleton refers to the adjoining (Co. Durham) parish of Middleton-in-Teesdale. Romaldkirk is in the old North Riding of Yorkshire but Durham RO has a copy of their records as the parish is just over 'the border'.
x 11 Apr 1790 - John, of Wm & Mary Stephenson, Romaldkirk [sic - i.e. omission of 'son' not by me]
x 12 Dec 1791 - Harriet Daughter of William & Mary Stevenson, Romaldkirk
x 22 Dec 1793 - Elizabeth, Daughter of William & Mary Stevenson, Romaldkirk
Given how common the surname Stephenson is, more proof is still needed before it's safe to assume this is the 'right' John. I searched through Romaldkirk burials up to 1812 and although I found a few Stephensons, there were none with the names above (I also had a quick look at marriages 1826-29 but no sign of John and Elizabeth marrying there).
Doing some further speculative checking on the IGI, I noticed that although Stephenson is a common name, 'Harriet Stephenson' is not a very common combination and assuming the Harriet b. 1791 would most likely have married between the ages of 16 and 26, this throws up only 4 possibles in all of England including a marriage to a Jacob Wilson at Newcastle All Saints on 27 Aug 1810.
I then looked up Jacob on the 1841 census (HO107/846 fo 6/12 pg 17) and there he was in Byker (Newcastle), a Tide Waiter (customs official), married to Harriet ... ditto in 1851 (HO107/2408 fo 34 pg 10) when Harriet gave her place of birth as 'Yorkshire' c. 1791/2 (age 59). I also looked for baptism records, again on the IGI:
Elizabeth Stephenson Wilson b. 28 Apr 1811 x 1 Dec 1811 Newcastle All Saints
Mary Anne Wilson x 10 Apr 1814 Newcastle All Saints
Mary Anne Wilson x 25 Dec 1816 Heworth (same Mary Anne?)
Harriet Stephenson Wilson x 25 Dec 1816 Heworth
Catherine Kidd Wilson x28 Mar 1819 Newcastle All Saints
Jacob Wilson x28 Mar 1819 Newcastle All Saints
Jane Wilson x 13 Aug 1820 Newcastle All Saints
William Stephenson Wilson x 18 Jun 1823 Newcastle (All Saints?)
John Wilson x 7 Mar 1826 Newcastle (All Saints?)
Thomas Wilson x 2 May 1827 Newcastle All Saints
Edward Wilson x 7 Jul 1830 Newcastle All Saints
Anyone else notice that two of the baptisms were in Heworth?
I hope some of the above is food for thought. When I get the chance (I'm in Newcastle on paternity leave so I hope in the next few days, childbirth permitting!), I'll check that All Saints marriage for witness names.
Ian - in any of your records of Stephenson marriages, can you see any links to the Wilson family above?
Regards,
Jon
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Hi Jon,
Good to see that you have now joined the Forum in your own right and what a way to start. Certainly looks that you are on 'the mark' with the confirmation that they did have a son John born 1790. Assuming this relationship is correct (re our Stephenson's) then we are fortunate as there is a lot of info on the IGI for the Layton's of Romaldkirk. Mary was born 1760 to George Layton & Hannah Watson who married 1759.
Re the witness and Minister surname being Baines/Barnes could it possibly be read as Raine, as Mary's brother William married a Betty Raine 1791.
Your research and thought's on the Wilson's also look right with the identification of Harriet.
Regards
Ian
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Fairly sure it was Baines/Barnes. The minister's name was well-written, the witness's not but I had a good old stare at it on a high magnification.
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Hi John,
You have uncovered a very interesting possibility on the Stephenson front, thank you!
It also links the Layton name very well...
Ian, I have contacted the BL 'experts ' prior to a visit to see what they can find on JS in the HEIC records but they were not very hopeful and said they found nothing of import. However I have rephrased the question and am waiting a reply! Maybe I contacted the wrong department...
This week I am also going to check in with the research department at the Tyne and Wear museum with regard to chemical manufacturers etc. So will keep you posted.
Regards
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
We are very fortunate to have people 'on the ground', like yourself,Jon, David & Brian, who can carry-out specific research not available on-line. Much appreciated and especially so when one is on the other side of the World. Perhaps you could ask the Tyne & Wear researchers if they have any detail on the Story/Storey Building also.
Regards
Ian
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hi to everyone an ye aaahl stephenson line ,just thought id say hello.Maggie {the creator of this}how are you? and all you lovely people.too many names to write.just thought id say hi.love the new ,possible ,info.from jon.anyway wish you all a good summer.its raining here in ireland.best of luck to yees,,
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My great grandmother Elizabeth was the sister of JAS. I have a painting of his which was given to my grandparents as a wedding present in 1896 (it was actually painted in 1895 and is of Cotherstone Mill, Teesdale. Thought you might be interested!
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Hi Katjo,
Good to see yet another direct family link.
We know details of all of JAS's siblings and your reference to Elizabeth could only refer to, Harriet Elizabeth Indianna Stephenson b 4-10-1833 Singhee Bengal. Chr 21-9-1838 Bishopwearmouth.
She was more commonly known as Indianna, but used Elizabeth in her 1st marriage to Luke Scott 1853 and this also appeared on her marriage certificate for 2nd Marr to Hugh Lyall 1876, but by 1881 census she had reverted to using Indianna. Her 3rd Marr was to William Emery 1902.
As far as I am aware her only issues from these marriages were Eleanor Scott born abt 1854 & Indianna Scott born 1870. Luke Scott and Hugh Lyall were widowers and had children from their 1st Marriages.
Indianna marr John Carr 1893 so I assume your link must be through Eleanor and that she marr 1896?
Can you give more specifics to confirm or otherwise.
Kind Regards
Ian
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Hi Ian
I think I am mistaken with my information.
I have always believed, according to my parents who are long since dead, that JAS was a relative but I don't think in the context that he was the brother of my gt grandmother Elizabeth. I have checked the family tree on Ancestry and she was second youngest of 8 of Clement and Margaret Stephenson's children. No John mentioned.
The inscription handwritten on the back of the watercolour reads "To Mr C S Long (my grandfather) with the artist's best wishes, 1.9.1896. This was obviously a wedding present which makes me think there is a family connection somewhere but alas I can't find it.
Best wishes
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Hello Dianecon,
I am still hoping to find new information on John Stephenson but no luck so far. It needs new links to other families to join up the dots!
I was so pleased to see a new name Katjo, but it looks like there is no direct link to John Atlantic Stephenson. However there is an intriguing one in the form of Clement Stephenson...to give an original painting as a wedding present and have the same surname? It's interesting and may prove fruitful. I will have a look on Ancestry and see if there is any way of tracing the families.
Best wishes to all
Maggie
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Hi Katjo,
I wouldn't give up on the connection, as if family suggest related to JAS, then that is likely to be the case. I have come across the name Clement Stephenson before once as reference through the Tyne&Wear Archive Service, when I was trying to prove the stated family link to THE George Stephenson. At that time I couldn't find link to Clement , but then not knowing family details of our John other than born 1790/5 that perhaps is not surprising.
I also seem to recall having seen Clement as a middle name in some family records.
Have you fully read all of our posts ie 19 pages. If not suggest might be a good idea and if anything looks like a possible link let us know.
Also do you have a link to THE George S.
Ian
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Hi all,
There is also the fact that Cotherstone Mill is in the parish of Romaldkirk. This could be just another coincidence or it could be another pointer to the Stephensons hailing from there (see my previous posts).
By yet another strange coincidence another of my ancestors unconnected to the Stephensons, one Thomas Bustin, was the miller at Cotherstone in the early 1800s. The burial register for 18 Oct 1806 records his father's unfortunate demise - John Bustin, aged 47, killed by falling down Mill Hill Scar the 15th inst. at night coming from market, Cotherstone Mill.
Darkness, steep hills (and too much alcohol?) have never been a good combination...
Jon
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Thanks Ian for the tips. I will look at all the pages.
No relation to GS unfortunately.
Clement Stephenson was a butcher in Gateshead High Street. My grandfather was named after him as Clement Stephenson Long and my father had Stephenson for a middle name.
If I see anything which seems familiar I will post it here.
Incidentally I do live in the Tyne & Wear area although it used to be Co Durham.
Regards
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Hi all,
I spoke to Joy last week ( JAS's great grand daughter) and asked her if the name Clement rang any bells. She said her grandfather, Philip Charles John Stephenson, son by JAS second marriage to Ellen Grace, was a Sarah Clement.
An unusual coincidence! Will keep looking..
Regards, Maggie.
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Hi All,
For those of us with an interest in the William Brumwell & Elizabeth Gordon connection, I have now obtained copies of Williams Will as certified 8-4-1816, following his death Dec 1815 and the subsequent Perogative Court Decision of 22-12-1848. (Jon I know you previously advised me of your having the 1848 Decision but don't know if you had the 1816 Will).
The 1816 Will was very enlightening as to family members (confirmed my thoughts as to William born 1813 & John born 1815 both being their sons, as some Family Tree's claim John as being the Son of William C Brumwell & Elizabeth Teesdale who married 1815)and also that he was keen to ensure all children were provided for and treated equally.
My interpretation of the Will is that 'Natural Daughter' means of his issue but illegitimate, 'Daughter/Son' mean of his issue in marriage and 'Daughter in law' means not of his issue but a pre existing daughter of his wife's before their marriage. One of the children I knew nothing about previously and clearly was by an association after he separated from his 1st wife Susanna Wilkinson about 1793 and before he met our Elizabeth Gordon around 1804 and subsequently married 1810.
To his Daughter Isabella Buckoll (from his 1st marr. She married Richard Buckoll a Captain in the Sussex Militia, 2-1-1809) he bequeathed only 5 pounds as he states "for whom I have done a great deal in my life time, both before and after her marriage". To my Natural Daughter (this is the unknown one) Harriott Brumwell, alias Carter, daughter of Harriott Carter of Kingsworthy Hampshire an Annuity of 20 pounds and my Natural Daughters Elizabeth Gordon Brumwell,Jane Brumwell & Anne Brumwell each an Annuity of 20 pounds, to my Daughter Catherine Brumwell and my Son William Brumwell each an Annuity of 20 pounds.To my Daughter in law Mary Gordon the sum of 20 pounds.(Mary was born abt 1802/1803 in Aberdeen as confirmed in the 1851 Census when she was living with Elizabeth Brumwell both being widows and Mary's surname being Henry).
This Will was written after William's birth in 1813 but before 1815 as John was not included. However in 1815 a Codicil was added to give his Son an Annuity of 20 pounds also and also the same other rights as his brother William and Sisters. Additionally as the Annuities were only set up to age 21 we can say the Harriet Brumwell was not yet of that age and therefore ties in with a birth between 1793 and 1804.
The house at the head of Westgate St, two doors above his Dwelling House, together with furniture. silverware,household linen, woolens and implements were left to his wife Elizabeth for her use during her natural life together with an Annuity of 50 pounds. On her death these were to pass to the children equally.
Unfortunately on William's death Dec 1815 his financial position had changed quite dramatically and he appears to have left outstanding Debts in excess of 400 pounds, this being the amount claimed by his business partner William Dobson of the firm Brumwell & Dobson Druggists. This amount was disputed as Dodson accepted a payment of 50 pounds in settlementand the case went to administration. William owned a share in an Eswich Copperas Works but these were worthless at the time due to the collapse in the Market. Also seems that the lease Agreement on the Works was 40 years from 1806 so the Works could not be wound-up and realised until the expiry of the lease in 1846 at the earliest. However at the final administration in 1848 the Brumwell Estate was valued at some 1200 pounds and after deductions for debts etc about 600 pounds was payable. as Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson was a Widow with 7 children the other beneficiaries agreed to forego their rights and all was paid to her.Only Anne was unable to sign a waiver as apparently she had gone to Germany many years earlier and had not been heard off again.
Jon do you know anything further on the Carter connection?
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Hi
I'm presuming the will was proved in the Prerogative Court of York? The National Archives will hold the Death Duty record on the will (nothing online for this period).
'Many claims for death duty arose long after the death of the testator, for example when a life tenant of the estate died. All the registers are regarded as "still in the making" for 50 years from the date of opening. This means that further comments could be added to the registers many years after the first entry and so they can include additional information such as:
dates of death of spouse
dates of death or marriage of beneficiaries
births of posthumous children and grandchildren
change of address
references to law suits
cross-references to other entries'
Regards
Valda
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Hi Valda,
Yes it was York.
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Fascinating update Ian - thanks for that.
No, I was not aware of Harriot Carter's existence: I'm not sure whether I am more surprised at another extra-marital relationship or that William chose to acknowledge all of his 'natural' children. He certainly can't have been a very staid man given his ill-advised first marriage to a teenage bride many years his junior (who as we know subsequently tried to elope with his own younger brother and then cavorted with the Mayor on a stairwell!) and his eight children by three different women, half of whom were born illegitimately.
Regards,
Jon
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Hi Jon & All,
Glad you found the details of benefit.
In reviewing Will I note I missed a page concerning his Business and other Assets.He states:
" If it can be done with Propriety, I should wish the Business I am concerned in on the Sandhill to be continued as hereto done with Mr Dobson and the profits arising there from divided amongst my three natural children Elizabeth Gordon, Jane and Anne Brumwell my Daughter Catherine and my Son William Brumwell. If Messers Brumell, Monkhouse and Brumwell ever get possession of White Heaps and Ferney Gill Lead Mines, I desire my Executors will divide the profits, if there should be any, amongst ..." (He left this to the children already mentioned but also included his Daughter Isabella Buckoll and natural Daughter Harriott Brumwell, share and share alike. By the Codicil John was also equally entitled on the same basis as his brother William).
The Executors were John Brumell of Kibblesworth Durham 'Gentleman' (his brother? note spelling difference) and John Stokoe of Newcastle 'Warehouseman'. Witnesses to the Will were Mr Dobson 'Druggist', Mr Bell 'Grocer' & Mr Daglish 'Druggist'. Witnesses to the Codicil and who made an Oath as to its validity were John Clayton 'Gentleman' and John Daglish 'Druggist'.
Re The mine above searched and found the following.
Whiteheaps mine is part of a wider complex that belongs to the Hunstanworth group of mines. Originally the mine was worked for lead and was owned by the London Lead Company from about 1715. The veins worked for lead were lean, however they did have a particularly high silver content, which made them workable enterprises. The London Lead Company was followed by a number of other companies, namely Easterby, Hall and Company (1807 - 1810) and the Derwent Mining Company (1810 - 1883) who further pursued lead ore. In the 19th century deep shafts (Whiteheaps Shafts and others) were sunk to the base of the Great Limestone for lead ore extraction. The Derwent Mining Company ceased its operations in 1883 and no further lead mining took place.
Ferneygill, Ramshaw, Red and White are the main veins that Whiteheaps worked. These were accessed by a number of shafts and adits on multiple levels right down to the base of the Great Limestone. Most of the site has been landscaped and many of the features are destroyed or buried including the adits. Old OS maps refer to Low Whiteheaps and High Whiteheaps.
Ian
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John Brumell would be a cousin of William's (Wm's mother was Isabella nee Brumell). I'm sure there is another family connection at some point between the Brumwells and the Brumells as you surmise. I suspect John Brumell, gent., may be a son of the marriage of Hawdon Brumell, Wm's 1st cousin, and Dorothy Peareth since this branch were close to the Brumwells (e.g. "Brumwell, William son of Brumwell, John, barber surgeon with chandler is aged 20 years & upwards. Deposition of Brumell, Hawdon, grocer of Newcastle, sworn before Blackett, John 7 Apr 1777.")
John Clayton is a Tyneside Great - he was the town clerk who oversaw the redevelopment of Newcastle in the 1830s and 40s under Dobson and Grainger and which left the town, now city, with the beautiful centre it has to this day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Clayton_(town_clerk)
Regards,
Jon
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Thanks Jon for the info in the previous post. I think I saw somewhere,that there was a Clayton who had a business or residence next to William Brumwell at Sandhill.
Hi All,
Now a piece of info that I have recently come across that might add some weight to the Family being related to The George Stephenson as already eluded to as part of Maggie's and my Wifes respective Family histories. As previously mentioned (see page 14) JAS's daughter Isabella Alexandra Stephenson (from his 1st marriage to Jane French) married a Norwegian Carl Theodor Pihl in 1883. Carl's father was Oluf Andreas Lowold Phil and his father's brother Carl Abraham Pihl. It transpires that both brothers came to the UK around 1844 (Oulf had previously come to the UK abt 1838 as a 13 year old for a year), after completing their engineering studies at university , and worked for some years with Robert Stephenson (George's son), Oluf as a draftsman and designer and Carl as a civil engineer, relating to railways.
Carl was to become one of the main architects of Norway's railways and Oulf a leading Gas Station Network engineer and entrepreneur in Norway, he also was a member of the Supervisory Commission for the railroads up to 1854. Detailed references to them can be found in the following:
http://www.microsofttranslator.com/BV.aspx?ref=IE8Activity&a=http%3A%2F%2Fsnl.no%2F.nbl_biografi%2FOluf_Pihl%2Futdypning
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Abraham_Pihl
Ian
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Having been able to make contact with the Norwegian relatives of the Pihl Family, I can advise that Carl & Isabella had 3 Children (1 daughter & 2 sons) all born in Oslo Norway. Marguerite Pihl born 14-10-1884, John Henry Pihl born 29-4-1890 & Fridtjof Pihl born 9-6-1896. In 1910 the family were living in Tinn Telemark Norway. Occupations were Carl Businessman Bookkeeper, Marguerite Nurse, John Technician. No occupation for Fridtjof and given his age would suggest still a Student. No other details were known.
Thanks to Per Auen Sveaas and Iver Neumann for assisting in providing this information.
Ian
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Hi,
Found the Pihl-family in the Kristiania 1885-census:
http://www.digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&sidenr=3&filnamn=f80301&gardpostnr=1198&personpostnr=25824&merk=25824#ovre
They'd temporarily moved out of their house due to diptheria in the building....
Jan in Norway
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Hi Jan,
Thanks for providing the 1885 Census record, which again confirms our details re the two families are correct.
By clicking on the search button after Isabella's name I also got the 1900 Census record which includes the other children also.
http://digitalarkivet.no/cgi-win/webcens.exe?slag=visbase&filnamn=f00218&personpostnr=12186&merk=12186
And the 1910 Census
http://da.digitalarkivet.no/ft/person/pf01036531002974/
Regards
Ian
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Jon,
Your comment "I suspect John Brumell, gent., may be a son of the marriage of Hawdon Brumell, Wm's 1st cousin, and Dorothy Peareth since this branch were close to the Brumwells (e.g. "Brumwell, William son of Brumwell, John, barber surgeon with chandler is aged 20 years & upwards." caught my attention.
My great grandfather was Henry Peareth Hawdon Brumell. We don't have any information on his parents or siblings but I find the relationship of HAWDON Brumell and Dorothy PEARETH to be far too coincidental to be just a coincidence.
I would be interested in any information that you have on Hawdon Brumell and Dorothy Peareth so that I can further investigate this possible (and quite likely) connection.
Thank you in advance,
Kathy
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Hi Kathy,
As you say, the conjunction of those names is too much to be a coincidence. The Brumells aren't really one of my research lines so I only have scant notes about them but I think I can see how your line links back to the Northumberland Brumells.
Henry Peareth Brumell (x 7 Aug 1835 Longhoughton, Northumberland) seems to have emigrated to Canada in the late 1840s or 1850s after the death of his father Hawdon Brumell (who farmed at Longhoughton) in 1845.
HPB can be seen living with his parents in the 1841 census for Littlehoughton at HO107/819 bk 18 fo 3 pg 11. There is another HPB in the 1851 census for Morpeth, Northumberland but this is his cousin, son of John Brumell, who was x 6 Jul 1820 at St. Peter's Liverpool.
'Your' HPB can be seen in the 1861 census for York, Toronto where he is following the Brumell family trade of chemist/druggist (the Northumberland Brumells all seen to have been lawyers, chemists or farmers). [Roll C-1108, page 7]. At this point he is still unmarried but 10 years later, he can be seen [1871, Roll C-1198, page 48, family 173] with wife Emily and among his children, a son called Henry, born c1863, who I assume is either your great or great x 2 grandfather.
The connection of your Brumells to the Peareths works as follows:
As seen above, HPB b. 1835 was the son of Hawdon Brumell and Mary Blackett (b. c1806 Berwick) who married just over the border from Northumberland, i.e. in Jedburgh, Scotland, on 23 Jan 1825 : 'Howden Brumwell [sic] of Houghton in the parish of Longhoughton, Northumberlandshire and Mary Blackett in this parish' (ref Scotlandspeople, Jedburgh OPR, Roxburghshire).
While there is a Hawdon Brumell x at Longhoughton in 1809, son of Henry Peareth Thomas Brumell, I believe your direct line ancestor (based on his rounded-down age of 55 in the 1841 census) to be the Hawdon Brumwell b 22 May 1782 and x 19 Jul 1782 at St. Nicholas, Newcastle upon Tyne ... son of Hawdon Brumell and Dorothy nee Peareth.
Hope that helps to fill in the gaps...
Regards,
Jon
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Thank you very much Jon.
Imagine how thrilling it is to leap from ggrandfather to a few generations back without the steps in between. Now the challenge is to solidify the links :)
Many thanks again.
Kathy
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Hi
I just googled John Atlantic Stephenson and it found your entry on this website. I've registered so that I can contact you but to be honest I'm not quite sure how to go on.
I wanted to contact you as John Atlantic Stephenson's grandson Dennis Charles married my aunt Elsie and I have 12 of his water colours on my wall. Also a photograph of John Atlantic which incudes a copy of his birth certificate.
Please get in touch if I can be of any help.
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Hi there, 26HC
It is a very pleasant surprise to meet yet another person connected to John Atlantic!
My great great grandmother is JAS's sister.
As you probably read in the original posts the thread began with a request from me about JAS as I had just read and transcribed his father's journal of a voyage to India. In this he mentions the birth of his son,mid Atlantic,in 1829. Another relation to JAS,linked by Rootschat, has a copy of the birth certificate from the Brig Argo, commented on by him. Is this the same as yours? It says Argo Brummell as his original name!
I have found some of his paintings in the Tyne and Wear museum and the same direct relation to him sent me a copy of another. It would be lovely to see copies of more of his work! Have you seen the photo of him ' Telling a Story' at Tynemouth 1880?
Do you know anything of 'the Stephenson connection'? We have all come to a grinding halt on this. The nearest we can get is that Henry Stephenson, JAS' brother, drove one of the first Steam trains on the Madras Railway and that there may be links with Robert Stephenson.
regards
Maggie 360
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Hi 26HC,
Good to hear from you and to finally get some more posts on here as been quiet for sometime.
Did a quick search and see Dennis Charles Stephenson was born 28-6-1917 son of Phillip C J Stephenson & Sarah Clement. He married Elsie Cole 7-11-1959. By your initials and mention of Auntie Elsie I guess your link is through the Coles.
Following on from Maggies post above would be good to see what info you have re family history. Also are you aware of details of JAS's children from 1st marriage
Regards
Ian
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Dear each,
Good to hear from you both. Please find attached a photo. of JAS
( a cross between everybody's ideal Grandfather , and Santa )
And most of his water colours .
The small picture below main JAS photo. is a photo. of his
birth certificate .
I also gather he was a regular at the BRASS MAN public house
in the "Toon"
As indeed was I when serving my time in Jesmond.
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Hi 26HC,
Thanks for your F/u post and photo upload. You are indead fortunate to have such a wonderful collection of JAS's watercolours and thanks very much for sharing with us. (Though a higher resolution photo would be better if available, as unable to zoom in currently).
Are you able to expand on our current knowledge of the 'Stephenson's' beyond what is in this Topic Posts todate?
Regards
Ian
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I echo Ian's thanks.
Amazing collection of watercolours although it's difficult to see all their beauty in the photo. How did you find the information re. The Brass Man?
He has a strong face, ( I love your description of him) and don't forget to look up the photograph of him telling a story,for sale with Artprints.
Any extra info on Stephensons gratefully received!
Regards,
Maggie
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Hi All,
You will recall from earlier previous Posts and subsequent 'on the ground' searching by David (Buffers) and Brian, that we couldn't locate Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson's grave which we thought was at St Mary's Gateshead or possibly with John at St Mary's Heworth (his burial record being previously established). Last week (17-2-12) I did another search and located a specific burial record for her.
Gateshead East Cemetery record No 917243.12 burial date 2-2-1878.
I don't know if this is part of St Mary's graveyard or not but perhaps David or Brian might like to check this out if able. Or 26HC are you aware of any grave stone?
Ian
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Hello all following the JAS trail. I`ve been missing for quite a while and just managed to get logged back into Roots Chat.
I notice that a grave site registration has been found in a Gateshead cemetery; just wondering if anyone has checked it out already? If not, I`ll go look for it and see if there is indeed a headstone that I can photograph and post.
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Hi Brian,
Welcome back. I was beginning to think Maggie and I were the only ones still actively interested in JAS Chat. Would be great to see if you can actually find the Grave.
Perhaps those of us who are still following this Chat might like to just 'Post' a hello.
Ian
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Yes I am still watching with interest too. I wrote up a summary from this string for my relatives to give them the family history on our Stephenson side. Excellent information, keep up the good work.
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Hi Ian,
For some reason or other I simply could not access the site other than to read posts, however, i`ve managed to re-register so ok now.
I`ll go and have a look at the cemetery; its in the area that has been associated with the family over quite a period of time. Its also one of the local cemeteries that were used to bury people in `Cholera Graves` during the many outbreaks of the disease locally. There would have been an outbreak during the time of Elizabeths death.
I`m on leave just now and the weather is awful! so not doing anything special this week. I`ll be back in touch soon.
Brian
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Hi there Ian and Brian, and everyone else on the Stephenson trail...
It would be great to actually find the gravestone if you are near Brian!
Have been trying Leonard Quintus Stephenson's name in various ancestry sites, but no more info has come to light.
After this long quiet spell with no new research or leads, it makes you realise how lucky we were to hook up with so many people on this thread originally and make such good progress doesn't it?
Best wishes,
Maggie
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Hi Maggie,
Its not more than a 15 minute drive from where I live, so no problem in getting there. It is a big cemetery, so I`m going to look for a map of the layout, that would save some time. Having said that it should be easy to see in which direction the cemetery was developed from the dates on the markers...unless that is too simplistic an idea. Sometimes, cemeteries were begun at one end and continued overtime in a particular direction, but I have seen one or two that don`t follow that system. I`ll let you know what I find.
I can see that there have been quite a number of new members since my earlier visits; I originally set out on this journey thinking that we would be few in number; how wrong I was.
Brian
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Hi Brian & Maggie,
Agree on all the above. All we need now is some relatives of Leonard Quintus Stephenson & Alfred Septimus Stephenson to come forward to complete the picture re the siblings.Like you Maggie I have tried & tried searching without success. We just need another breakthrough.
Bryan also good to see you are still following and interested in the Chat.
Ian
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Thanks Ian.
There are a couple of branches of the family here in New Zealand. It is a long way from English graveyards so great to have you guys doing the hard yards.
cheers
Bryan
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Hello all, sorry I have been missing for so long and had trouble accessing the site; all seems to be well now.
Unless I am missing some posts, there seems to have been nothing added for a while; I`m just wondering if the topic is still open?
Happy New year to you all,
Brian
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Hi Brian,
Seasons greetings to you and all the rest of the JAS followers. Good to hear from you as has been a long time since anyone posted on the JAS Topic. Personally I have not advanced my research on the subject since my last posts and I guess this is the same for the rest of the group. However I am still very much interested in this site.
Best wishes to All.
Ian
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Recently I received a photo album from the Stephenson family. There are no names attached to the photos. However they all appear to have been taken in England in the Newcastle area. I have scanned and attached one. Can anyone put a name to it?
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What an interesting picture...could be someone we're looking for! I think, as Ian said, we are all very much interested in the Stephenson story still but need another link! Happy New Year to all, and let's keep on it!
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Another photo from the album. It is about one inch square and stuck to a piece of paper with the words John A Stephenson printed on it. The printing is incomplete as the backing paper has been cut from a larger sheet. Any suggestions who it is?
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The album I have received is accompanied by the attached notice of music lessons by Grace Stephenson. Can anyone advise where she fits in to the family?
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Dear Bryan
Have a look at page 14, replies nos 137, 138, and 139.
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Thanks Maggie. It was the use of the name Grace that had me stumped. regards
Bryan
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Hi Bryan,
For some reason didn't get a email from Rootschat to say new post made to forum. Agree with Maggie re reference to Grace.
I have had details of 1901 Census for JAS (Gateshead St John's) for sometime and had been interested in the fact that his daughter Annie Grace Emily Stephenson age 23 had her occupation listed as Professor of Music and employed on her own account. Your info ties in with that nicely.
She Married Hugh Hunter Bowden at Gateshead between Jul-Sept 1907. He died 4-12-1921 & she 31-12-1957.
regards
Ian
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Hi Ian. My great grand father, Alfred Stephenson, had to go to sea for a year to get his ticket to be a marine engineer. He sailed aboard the SS Ivydene from NZ to England and back. From his continuous discharge book, he spent a few months in 1907 in and around England. I presume he must have visited his relatives there including Grace. That seems to be the only reason her advert ended up in the family's hands. His daughter (my grandmother) never mentioned relatives in England and only vaguely the relatives in the North Island of NZ. Any other thoughts?
cheers, Bryan
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Hi Bryan, Sorry not much more I can add.
However I have just over the last 2 days found Family Trees on Ancestry which mentioned Henry Layton Stephenson b 1832. These are joans_tree (Joan Swallow) & Tony Mooar (Maurer) Ancestors. I am aware of the Mooar family connection as Henry's daughter Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson b 1855 Hartlepool, Durham, UK married a Jacob Mooar in Christchurch NZ 1896. She d 1937 in Lincoln Christchurch NZ but both of these family trees mention as Lincolnshire UK (easy mistake I suppose if you hit the wrong button). Consequently this relationship is closer to your side of the family as was through Henry's 1st marriage to Isabella Park.
Unfortunately both have made the huge leap (and mistake) of showing Henry's father as John b 1789 being the son of Robert Stephenson & Mabel Carr (parents of THE George) and therefore saying he is Georges brother. Joan's tree even does this despite showing John's death as Jan 1831 and recording Henry as b 1832. (Robert Stephenson did have a son John who did die 1831 as a result of an accident at the Stephenson Forth St works. This is why he was never a possibility for me in trying to find the claimed family connection to THE George). Our Henry was born Jul 1832 so no way is that possible let alone account for the other children born subsequently!!!!.
What makes this worse is that some of this misinformation may have come from my wife's side of the family. In Dec I received a copy of a letter from 2000 written by my wife's cousin based on a story as told by her mother and grand mother (Beatrice Monaghan nee Stephenson daughter of Henry and Annie Sheehan). She states may not be 100% as she only heard snippets and her memory may not be exact. She also referred to Stephenson history as set out in a Pears Encyclopedia. She stated Henry Stephenson (her Great Grandfather) was the son of Robert. I think someone has put 1&1 together and come up with 4 as it suited the story. The letter also included other so called facts about Henry and Annie that were also totally incorrect.
A further point supporting Robert not being the father is that neither our John nor his sons called any of their children Robert or Mabel which you would normally expect at that time.
We know that John Married Elizabeth Gordon Brumwell bef 1829 but both trees show he married a Mary Brumwell. I can forgive this as this name was shown on a 1 or 2 certificates I have seen as being Henry's mother. Mary Gordon was Elizabeth's sister and also brought up in the Brumwell household.
I only mention all of this as it shows the importance of only putting information into family trees that has been verified through other means.
Ian
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Hi Ian. Thanks for that information. Amongst my package of momentos there is a notice about Henry Stephenson. A copy is attached. I know nothing about its origins. cheers
Bryan.
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Hi Bryan,
That looks to be the original draft type for 'The Cyclopedia of New Zealand (Wellington Provincial District) General Government Offices 1897, as I discussed page 10 post 92. Interesting how all the bits are coming together.
Ian
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I have just re-read all the posts as it helps refresh where we are and what we have covered. I think we have come a long way since Maggie started the topic and importantly enabled the respective family groups to reconnect, share and expand our collective knowledge.
There appear to be a few loose ends as I note Brian said he was again going to follow up on Elizabeth G Stephenson's burial, David was to visit the Tyne & Wear Records Office and Maggie was to visit the British Library. Would be good to hear if these searches actually transpired and outcomes.
Jon I have not forgotten about the Stephenson/Layton Romaldkirk possible connection. The more I look at it I think you are on the correct track but just can't find the necessary vital verification to link it in.
On searching Ancestry UK I have found a death for a Alfred S G Stephenson for July-Sept 1915 at Tynemouth born Abt 1843. Vol10b page 279. If anyone is local and able to look up the records to see if our Alfred Septimus Stephenson (The G could be Gordon) that would be great.
Also in relation to William Brumwell's Will & Probate records Valda commented.(see page 19 posts 187 & 188).
I'm presuming the will was proved in the Prerogative Court of York? The National Archives will hold the Death Duty record on the will (nothing online for this period).
'Many claims for death duty arose long after the death of the testator, for example when a life tenant of the estate died. All the registers are regarded as "still in the making" for 50 years from the date of opening. This means that further comments could be added to the registers many years after the first entry and so they can include additional information such as:
dates of death of spouse
dates of death or marriage of beneficiaries
births of posthumous children and grandchildren
change of address
references to law suits
cross-references to other entries'
This line of research could be fruitful so again if anyone is able to search at Archives in person this would be appreciated.
Ian
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hi there im from nz and my husband is a ggg grandson of william layton stephenson. the info we have is he was married to frances stephenson. and had 4 children born in nz they were alfred ernest born 1883 died 7 june 1923 he is buried in sydenham cemetery.
frances gordon died 1881 at 12 days old.
florence annie died 1908 at age 23 buried with her parents in linwood.
William leonard 1880 whom im not sure about his death but he married mary ellen nee tarrant in 1905 William Layton died 15 april 1926 was an engineer and is buried in linwood cemetery. id love more info on the parents of frances and william layton thnx
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Hi fjhs,
I have sent you a private message with my contact details. I am also a descendent living in NZ and can provide you with some further information.
cheers
Bryan
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Hi Fjhs,
Welcome. I am also in NZ but I have deferred responding as I knew Bryan was likely to make contact, which he has, being a direct descendant of William Layton Stephenson and he can update you on his family connections here. Williams parentage and wider family connections are well covered in this forum, so you will find this of interest I am sure.
I can tell you that Frances Newton's parents were William Newton (a Blacksmith) b Abt 1819 and Frances Plettes b Abt 1817. They were married 1838 in Durham.
In 1871 they were living at 28 Commercial St Crook Durham with children Frances age 14 & John Thomas Newton age 19.
In addition they also had a Mary J Newton b Abt 1844 & Sarah A Newton b Abt 1854.
Frances married William 13-5-1877 at St Ann's Church St Andrew Auckland Durham with her brother John being a witness.
In addition to their children you refer to as being born in NZ they also had a son Harry Newton Stephenson b Abt 1878 Newcastle England. He and his parents sailed from England on the 1-11-1878 and arrived NZ 18-1-1879 on the ship Waikato.
Regards
Ian
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Thanks Ian.
This forum has once again helped our family to reconnect.
cheers
Bryan
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Hi All
I am just updating the wonderful document that Maggie put together for our family. I guess you could say that Maggie is my second cousin, our mothers being cousins. We live a world apart, Maggie in UK, and myself in Australia, ex New Zealand. So of course, I appear way down the Catherine Mary Layton line. My aim is to work on what Maggie put together as a birthday present for my mother, Mignon. Incidentally, Mignon is the holder of the original Journal to India which Maggie transcribed.
Anyway, I was just wondering if anyone had found anything further on Leonard Quintus/Quinties/Quinton. I seemed to have found some info on the one in the same born in 1838, so am hoping I might have found a bit of a trail? Any info appreciated.
I was also interested to read that someone mentioned Ekatahuna (not far from my home town). Well I am not aware of any connection there, but do know that a Stephenson ran the Steam Museum at Tokomaru, just out of Palmerston North. My mum always wondered if there was some distance connection there?
Regards Cathy
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Hi Cathy,
Sorry for such a late response to your queries, but I thought as you had previous dealings with Maggie that she might have wanted to respond first.
Firstly the correct name is Leonard Quintus Stephenson. I have his birth certificate for 15-3-1838 Bishopwearmouth Durham and baptism records. His middle name simply refers to his being the 5th child.
The last record for Leonard that I have found is the 1861 UK Census Elswick when he was 23 and a Printer Compositor, still living with his mother Elizabeth and brothers Albert & Alfred.
Henry Layton Stephenson (Snr) b 1832, his elder brother (who is my wife's great grandfather) was heavily involved in NZ Railways since his arrival in 1874. Stints at Ashburton, Timaru, Napier, Palmerston North and finally New Plymouth where he died 1907. I don't know if he had any part in a Railway museum in Palmerston North.
If you go through the forum posts you will get a good understanding of where we all are at with the whole family research and the many family reconnections made. Unfortunately Leonard, Alfred Septimus Stephenson and Harriet Elizabeth Indianna Stephenson (Marr 1 Scott, 2 Lyall 3 Emery)are the ones we have not reconnected with yet.
I have a copy of the John Stephenson Journal, as provided by Maggie, and I am very grateful that your mother made this available to her. It is a treasured record in our genealogy collection. Do you know which part of the Stephenson line she acquired this from?
I note that your family arrived NZ 1924 at Lyttelton on the ship Remuera.
Should you have any further queries I will be happy to help if I can.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi Ian,
Good to see that this thread is still alive and kicking even though new info on the Stephensons is becoming harder to come by.
Can I put forward a suggestion for a black sheep in the family which you can either back up or shoot down from your own information...?
As you have previously detailled here, your Henry Layton Stephenson had a son registered with the same name, born at Castle Eden in 1859.
I think the young burglar referred to below is he, albeit going by the name of Henry Leonard rather than Henry Layton. But as we know, Leonard is also a family name (in fact going back to my earlier suggestion that John Stephenson d.1844 was the son of William Stephenson and Mary nee Layton of Middleton-in-Teasdale/Romaldkirk, William Stephenson of Middleton-in-Teesdale had a brother called Leonard which may explain the provenance):
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/victorian-mugshots-reveal-nineteenth-century-interest-in-criminal-anthropology-7892823.html?action=gallery&ino=2
(http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/history/victorian-mugshots-reveal-nineteenth-century-interest-in-criminal-anthropology-7892823.html?action=gallery&ino=2)
A detailled account of Henry's misdemeanours can be read here:
HOUSEBREAKING AT NEWCASTLE - TWO BOYS APPREHENDED
At the Newcastle Police Court on Monday, before Mr. Ald. Nicholl and Mr. Ald. Wilson, Richard Clement Fisher (18) and Henry Leonard Stephenson (12), were charged with housebreaking and theft. Chief Constable Nicholls said the boys were charged with breaking into the house of Mr. Green, in Lawton Street, and stealing various articles therefrom. During the last month or six weeks 8 or 10 unoccupied houses had been broken into and their contents ransacked and things taken away. He had every reason to believe that he should be able to prove satisfactorily to the Bench that the majority, if not all of theses houses had [been] broken into and entered by the prisoners. He was not then prepared to go into the numerous cases and proposed to offer only evidence sufficient to justify him in asking for a remand.—John Thomas Green: We left for Tynemouth on the 18th of last month, and returned a fortnight to day. I found that the house had been broken into by the pantry window, through a zinc pane, and that the bolt of the kitchen door had been drawn, and access gained to the house. I found all the window shades down; they were spread on the floor, as if to deaden the sound of feet. I missed a violin case - the violin was left, a thermometer, and boy's cash-box. [Violin case produced and identified.] Witness thought the thermometer produced was his, but there were many others like it, and it had no mark by which he could identify it.—Detective Anderson deposed: During the last three weeks I have been making inquiries with reference to the housebreaking at the west end of the town. On Friday afternoon, I saw the two prisoners standing in Summerhill Street. I went up to Fisher and asked his name. About half an hour afterwards, I took Fisher to his mother's house in Summerhill Street, and in the presence of his mother mother told him that I was a detective officer, and that I suspected that he had broken into a number of houses and stolen various articles. I asked him If he had any keys. He replied "Yes, I have a small bunch of keys in my pocket." I asked his mother if he had a box, and she said he had not. I said I suspected that he had a box, and she left the room and returned with a small wooden box. As she came along the passage I heard something fall as if from the box ; and on going to the passage in company with the prisoner and his mother, I found a bunch of keys. I went into a back room and found the violin case. About 7 o'clock on Friday night I went to Elswick East Terrace, where Stephenson resides with his grandmother. I told him I suspected him of breaking into several houses In company with Fisher. He said he had not done so. I searched the house, but did not find anything. I went back some time after and found the thermometer produced hanging in the parlour. I took Stephenson to the Laurel Street Police Station, and he then said in reference to the thermometer, "Oh! it was got along with the violin case". The prisoner was remanded for a week. [Morpeth Herald - Saturday 12 October 1872]
Most of the circumstantial details fit - Henry would have been 13 not 12 but his birthplace is given as Castle Eden and he is said to be living with his grandmother at Elswick East Terrace. Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson was living at Elswick East Terrace in 1861 and her address in 1871 is given as Judson Place but this is often listed as being part of Elswick East Terrace.
I must say that he doesn't look like a bad lad in his photo. Do you have any photos of Henry junior which would confirm/dispute that this is he? He would have served his jail term one year before the family moved to NZ.
Regards,
Jon
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Hi Jon,
Glad to see you are still following this forum.
Well what a stunning revelation about Henry Layton Stephenson (Jnr). Everything (age, place of birth, residence and living with grandmother), certainly ties in with him being the accomplice. Great photo also. Elizabeth died Jan 1878 and young Henry then 18 left the UK in June that year to come to NZ to be with his father. His occupation was given as a storekeeper.
Clearly the case of a young boy changing his life around, for he became very successful in NZ. Lived in a grand house called Bleak House and employed domestic staff. I don't have photos of him as a young boy but I attach one when abt 45ish, not a great photo as photocopied but I think resemblance is there.
Cheers
Ian
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Thanks to both Ian, for so clearly summing up all the findings, and Jon, for the fascinating new find!
I have recently been in contact with Cathy and shared information in the form of personal letters between her Great grand mother and my mother's family. Because of this shared link I can only assume the journal was passed for safe keeping by John and Elizabeth to their daughter, our mutual ancestor, Catherine Mary Layton and at some stage and was passed on to her youngest daughter Edith. Edith had 4 children, the oldest being my grand mother and her sister was Cathy's grandmother! Mignon Leyton was her daughter( and Cathy's mum ) and has looked after the original journal so carefully.
I have re read many of the Rootschat entries and remembered that before I found Rootschat I asked the help of a professional genealogist. (She actually went on to find my father's link to the Burberry's of clothing fame! )
Right at the start of the Stephenson research she doubted that any link to George could be proved. However she did make three points based on 'genealogical logic' that I never followed up and I will summarise:
Firstly that John Stephenson would have been 39 when JAS was born mid Atlantic and that this could be construed as rather old if Elizabeth was his first wife. He could well have married before.
Secondly she said marriages usually took place in the brides home parish. Elizabeth was baptised at St Nicholas Non Conformist Church, Newcastle on Tyne. This meant that her family were probably non Anglican and therefore John and Elizabeth might not have married in an Anglican Church?
Thirdly, passports were not a legal requirement until 1914 but some were issued as early as 1794. Is it possible John applied for one? He seemed to have no qualms about making big location moves! Can we assume he was even born in this country? How can passports be traced, if at all?
I doubt any of these thoughts can be easily followed up but it may get us to look at the known information from a different angle!
Best wishes to all,
Maggie
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Hello all,
My aunt by marriage was Marjorie Doreen Leeson born 16 November 1913 in New Zealand, and her grandmother was Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson (born 1855 Hartlepool c.30/1/1859 Castle Eden, Co Durham).
From reading these posts I see that there is uncertainty as to who was the John Stephenson (abt 1790 - died 4 Dec 1844 Heworth Shores) who was the grandfather of Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson, the daughter of Henry Layton Stephenson (1832 - 1907). I am not confident that he was the John Stephenson (c.4/4/1790 Romaldkirk) even though his mother was a Mary Layton.
Much has ben said about Henry L Stephenson's brother, John Atlantic Stephenson, being a poet and artist. Perhaps he came from a family with such talents.
Has anyone considered whether their father was the John Stephenson baptised in Gateshead on 7 Dec 1788, the son of William Stephenson (c.28/6/1763 Gateshead - died 12/8/1836 Gateshead) who married at Gateshead on 23 May 1784 to Jane Sharpe?
William Stephenson (Snr) was one of the earliest Tyneside poets and song writers, being a clock and watch maker who was educated and being something of a literary scholar later became a very successful schoolmaster. His son, William Stephenson (c.2/9/1797 Gateshead - died 20/5/1838), also included poetry and song writing amongst his many talents.
Apart from John 1788 and William 1797, William Stephenson (Snr) and his wife Jane possibly had other children in Gateshead - George c.2/1/1785, Catherine c.23/8/1786, Jane c.1/10/1786 and William b. 12/6/1790 c.9/9/1792. However, I have been unable to sight images of the parish records to try to confirm that they all were siblings and don't wish to travel from Australia to do so.
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Hi All
Thank you for welcoming into your forum. This has certainly been an interesting journey of discovery for me and my research will form a surprise elaborate album / scrapbook for my Mum, Mignon Leyton (interesting she has a different spelling) Arnst (nee Woodhouse) for her birthday. I thank you all for your contributions thus far as it has filled a lot of gaps for me.
With regards to the last post by Bellam1, I can confirm that we are on the right track regarding John Stephenson. "Our" John travelled to India and his original journal is held by my mother. He and the family appear on passenger lists and John Atlantic was certainly born on the voyage to India, hence his name.
I look forward to hearing more bits of info, and if you anyone happens to have any new photographs which have not yet been posted / shared.....I would love a copy to put in the scrapbook I am working on.
Thanks again
Cathy
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Hi All,
Jon and I corresponded in 2010 re the possibility that a Capt William Brumwell who died 12-7-1854 at Cockfield Durham, was the son of William Brumwell and Elizabeth Gordon, born 1813.
Jon had previously established the marriage of William to a Mary Frances Moses at Tynemouth on 19-1-1840 but noted that the PR copy on microfilm at Tyne and Wear Archives did not give his fathers name or occupation, having being entered on the old Rose Act register and not one of the more informative ones using the 1837 registration details.
When I searched Ancestry.com records at this time a marriage record was shown under the England & Wales Marriages 1538 to 1940 citing Tynemouth Christ Church film No 1068931 but this gave fathers names as John Brumwell & Thomas Moses. Several Family Trees show this relationship but identifying William as being born 1806.
Jon was of the opinion that William's father's first name must have been wrongly entered as he was not aware of any other William Brumwell born 1813 with a Newcastle connection. Jon had also provided detail of a transcript from Williams gravestone in the Cockfield churchyard but this showed "Erected in memory of Captain William Brumwell of Newcastle ......." but again no reference to his father. I have seen similar reference compiled by a by Dave Ollerton re Saint Mary Churchyard Cockfield Durham on www.interment.net.
Jon did not hold out hope that the death cert would provide the required information either.
Well that is how it has remained, until yesterday, when I was retracing old info and clicked on Capt William Brumwell at Ancestry and came across a picture Capt Brumwell which was marked private member AnnaHankey.
However on moving the cursor over the link a text box appeared which read as follows;
Photo date: Visited by Anna 9 August 2012
Location: St. Mary's Church Cockfield
Inscription reads- In Memory of Capt. William Brumwell son of Doctor Brumwell of Newcastle who died at Cockfield July 12 1854 age 40 years. Also William son of the above Capt. William Brumwell who died May 8th 1849, Aged 2 years. Also Elizabeth daughter of the above who died October 29th 1850. Also Mary Frances wife of the above who died March 18th 1884, Aged 74 years.
Jon it would appear that your earlier assumptions are correct as this information appears to tie in with our William born 1813 and being the son of Doctor William Brumwell of Newcastle.
Cheers
IAN
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Ian,
Well found – it just goes to show:
1) We should never take a secondhand reference for granted as being either correct or comprehensive: I have had a copy of that Cockfield M.I. transcription on file for years but as well as a couple of date errors, the transcription I have also lacks the all-important reference to Dr. Brumwell as father.
2) We should always be open-minded enough to consider that an original record needn’t be seen as biblical writ simply because it is a primary source - especially if all of the other evidence points in a different direction, viz.the apparent naming of his father as John on the m. cert.
There is a mariner’s ticket (no. 283921) viewable for William Brumwell on Ancestry, issued at Newport on 5th March 1851, which gives his date and place of birth as Newcastle on the 22nd July 1814. As this is clearly our William (his address is given as 16 Catherine Street, South Shields where wife Mary and 2 daughters can be seen in the census a month later), this rather reinforces my second point above: William was baptized at St. Nicholas on 5 Sep 1813 so clearly must have been born on the 22nd July a year earlier than is stated on his mariner’s ticket.
So Captain William Brumwell was not an officer in the military or in the navy but a master mariner, a title that anyone who attained that status was entitled to use.
Regards,
Jon
P.S. If I get the chance on a future trip north, I’ll try to grab a photo of this M.I. and post to this forum (unless you can persuade Anna Hankey to share hers).
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Hi Jon,
I have just sent a message to Anna re the above and asking if she would share with us.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi Bellam1 & Cathy,
I have only just noted your entries so apologies.
Bellam1 welcome and I see your connection through Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson the daughter of Henry Layton Stephenson and neice of JAS and sister of Henry Layton Stephenson(Jnr) and the subsequent Marriage of her daughter Annie Beana Mooar to William Leeson.
Actually both Jon and I had previously thought as you re the possibility of William b1763 & Son William (Jun)b 1797 being the father and brother of our John (b abt 1795), by virtue of the poet/song writer/writer connection. But we were unable to prove further as is the case with the Romaldkirk Stephenson/Layton theory also.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi All,
Following on from Jon's advice that William Brumwell was a sea Captain I have just found a reference "Heirs At Law 1845-1846 From Trewman's Exeter Flying Post" that states the following:
The following are Extracts from the Register for Devon and Cornwall, &c.
Thursday, October 2, 1845; Issue 4162
Gale Document No. Y3200675947
BRUMWELL, John and William, entered the Merchant Service in 1835, who are brothers of Isabella Buckball, Walcot, Somerset, deceased, wanted.
Isabella Buckoll (nee Brumwell) is from the 1st marriage William Brumwell & Susannah Wilkinson and is John & William's half sister. She died 1842.
This entry is interesting as it shows John still being alive 1835 when he and William both went to sea.
I don't know if any records viewable regarding any contact with brothers and payments made re above.
Cheers
Ian
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Ian,
You have a great knack for finding these references - well done again. The notifications system on Rootschat doesn't seem to be consistently working otherwise I would have seen your post earlier (and the other recent posts from Bellam1 and Cathy which I now see that I also missed).
I tracked down the reference that you found in the Exeter Flying Post and realized that it was in turn an extract made from the London Gazette a couple of years earlier. Here is the original advertisement:
If John Brumwell and William Brumwell, who entered the merchant service as seamen, and went to sea in or about the year 1835, and who are the brothers and next of kin of Isabella Buckhall, widow, late of the parish of Walcot, in the county of Somerset, deceased, will apply at the office of Messrs. Cruttwell and Nicholson, 10, Godliman-street, Doctors’-commons, they may hear of something to their advantage. [The London Gazette, 27 September 1842, Issue 20145, p2610]
Clearly Isabella left her half-brother’s male offspring some money in her will. I assume John Brumwell must have died between 1835 and 1848 because I don't remember there being any reference to him in the 1848 admon of father William's will which you shared. The other piece of info to be gleaned from this announcement is that Richard and Isabella Buckoll had no living children in 1842 (if indeed they ever had any children).
Regards,
Jon
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Hi Jon,
I don't know about having a knack, just luck and fact so much more information now available on internet. Good that you are able to expand on the findings by checking other sources and referencing areas I am unaware off.
Yes agree with you on the recent non advice of new posting notifications. Hopefully a short-term glitch. I now check forum occasionally, if not heard anything, just in case.
Following on from last post re William Brumwell I have found on Ancestry a copy of his and May Frances Moses actual Marriage Bond of 18-1-1840 (Durham Diocese England , Marriage Bonds & Allegations, 1692-1900) ref DDR/EJ/MLA/1/1840/31. gives his occupation as Master Mariner. No other enlightening info though.
As he died 1854 possibly one of his last commands was that as Captain on the Ship ANN DASHWOOD which sailed from Liverpool to Sydney in 1853. An account of this voyage by a passenger Edward Dash, see the following link http://www.dashstory.com/EdwardJournal.pdf is very interesting in detailing the horrid journey experienced by the passengers through misrepresentation of the ships conditions, under provisioning, excess passenger numbers, drunk crew (and Captain) and physical abuse and attacks etc etc.
PS I have not heard back from Anna Hankey re the request for a copy of the grave inscription photo.
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Hello .... I am new to this forum and to family research. My name is Victoria Wright and my Great Grandmother is Catherine Mary Layton Stephenson (born 1836 India Bengal) sister of John Atlantic Stephenson. I am in New Zealand. I am looking forward to chatting. I believe someone in NZ has Tran scripted John Atlantic Stephenson Journal?
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Hi Vicky Welcome,
If you refer to pages 26 & 27 under, relating to posts from Cathy (Kiwifroggy65) & Maggie you will get the background to the John Stephenson Journal of 1829 by JAS's father. Maggie transcribed and she is in the UK.
Your more direct family link is through Cathy & Maggie and therefore more appropriate that I leave further contact to them at this stage.
I am in Wellington NZ.
Cheers
Ian
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Re kiwifroggy65 I would be interested in sharing with you the information you have regarding John Atlantic Stephenson you mentioned Mignon Arnst re Woodhouse my father is Edward Victor Hastings Carr. Mignon is my fathers sister. My son has just come back from England and went to the addresses I have. It was over there that we found out about John Stephenson.
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Hi All,
Firstly Vicki I note no response to you query above, at least online. Hopefully Maggie or Cathy has contacted you direct.
To All, you will note on page 26 I detailed some loose ends that might be fruitful. One of these was:
On searching Ancestry UK I have found a death for a Alfred S G Stephenson for July-Sept 1915 at Tynemouth born Abt 1843. Vol10b page 279. If anyone is local and able to look up the records to see if our Alfred Septimus Stephenson (The G could be Gordon) that would be great.
I recently decided to obtain the certificate myself and this proved very worthwhile. I can confirm that the G was for Gordon. He died 24-9-1915 at 44 Percy St Tynemouth occupation being a Street Musician. Informant was a Samuel Neville at same address. It was checking this name in 1911 Census that proved so enlightening.
Residents were Alfred Gordon age 67 born Durham Heworth occ Harpist, Jane Gordon his wife age 64 occ Assisting (Vocalist as established later) and Samuel Neville as Boarder. Record also shows Alfred & Jane married for 43 years and had no children in that time.
I was able to trace Alfred & Jane further in the 1901 census same address occ's Musician & Vocalist, 1891 census in Bowes St Waterloo Morpeth, where they were Lodgers, occ's the same, 1881 census Wallace Green Berwick, where they were Boarders occ's Musician & Musicians wife.
We know previously 1871 Census staying with mother Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson under their Stephenson surnames.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi All, Especially those with a direct line to Albert Peak Stephenson b 1840.
I noted that David (posting under Buffers) who's line is through A P S. had recorded in his Family Tree Spreadsheet he shared showing APS dying Newcastle 1890 (probably a typo as had stated in forums re APS being in 1891 census). Tony Mooar's family Tree and others had death as 1909.
Records show that APS was living at home with his family in the 1891 Census. Jon had previously advised me (some years ago)that APS was showing in 1901 and 1911 censuses as an patient Gosforth Asylum Castle Ward and I did see the 1901 record which confirmed this.
Again in order to chase up some loose ends and to maintain correct records that are verified I recently ordered a copy of a Death Cert for a Albert P Stephenson who died Castle Ward 1913 age 72 (ref Vol 10B p375) to see if our APS.
That cert also arrived today and is for a Albert Peak Stephenson who died 27-6-1913 age 72 at the Newcastle City Asylum. The informant was his Daughter E J Stephenson residing 87 Hunters Rd Newcastle. (APS Daughter Elizabeth J Stephenson b 1871). Clearly our APS.
1911 census shows daughter EJS living at the address above, being that of a George Arrowsmith. She is recorded as being his Cousin and her occ as General Servant Domestic.
Cheers
Ian
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Great sleuthing, Ian! Sometimes buying the cert. is the only way, particularly for those like Alfred who seem keen for some reason to stay well ‘under the radar’. In this case, it looks like being £9 well spent because it has unlocked the secret to his seeming disappearance between 1871 and 1915.
A street musician! Who knew?! I wonder why he chose to use his middle name as surname and to drop the ‘Stephenson’ ... Ironically, he was living about 100 yards from my own Brumwells (at 27 Hotspur Street).
I guess the moral of your discovery is that we should never underestimate the potential deviousness of our ancestors or, to put it more kindly, their capacity for invention. I knocked down a brick wall of 30 years standing on my Preston tree this year when I found that Stanley Preston, grocer, of 1901 had not disappeared, as seemed, into the ether but had become ‘Stanley de Greston’, theatrical artiste, by 1911.
That just leaves the elusive Leonard Quintus Stephenson ...
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Hi Vicky1948!
I had no alerts of any new posts on Rootschat and have missed your message. Sorry it has taken so long!
Your Aunt, Mignon Arnst, Cathy's mum, was the original holder of John Stephenson's journal of his voyage from England to India in 1829. She very kindly photocopied it and I transcribed it. It is a fascinating account of a voyage and reflects his love of science and natural history. There is a fleeting reference to his wife giving birth to his son John Atlantic!
If you read all the previous posts you will see how the sorry has unfolded and how we have reached so many of the family descendants. As you are based in New Zealand it is probably easiest to contact your aunt direct as she has a copy of the transcript and a rough family tree so far. There are lots of descendants still to add now however!
Wishing everyone involved on the Stephenson journey a very Happy and Healthy New Year. Who knows this may be the year we find what happened to Leonard Quintus?!
Best wishes
Maggie
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Hi All. Happy New Year! It looks like some great info has been discovered since I last logged on. How wonderful! I will sit down later and read more thoroughly.
To Vicki.....hello! I believe you are my Mum, Mignon Arnst (nee Woodhouse) cousin. I believe you are Vic and Beryl's daughter?
As you know, my parents now live in South Australia and mum has the original transcript if the Atlantic sea journey. Mum provided Maggie with a copy and Maggie laboriously transcribed it. I have a photocopy if it and would be happy to post you a copy, with Maggies permission of course?
Regards
Cathy
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Hi All,
Likewise wish everyone a very happy New Year. Certainly a warm one here so far in NZ.
As with Maggie's experience of the lack of Forum notification to new posts, I did not receive notice of her or Cathy's recent posts either.
Cheers
Ian
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Hello all,
Just to let you know that I am back on the site after a longish absence; for some reason I couldn`t access the site, I just gave up after a while.
However, I received an email inviting me to alter my password...and hey presto, access is allowed again.
I`ll read back over the pages and catch up with what has been happening.
Regards,
Brian Stephenson (Winlaton, Tyne and Wear, U.K)
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Hi Brian,
Yes it has been awhile. Glad to see you reconnect. Some good progress lately on filling the gaps.
Cheers
Ian
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Ian, Maggie et al.,
Bearing in mind, Ian, your recent revelation about Alfred being a street musician, I wonder whether this could be the elusive Leonard in 1881. He's the right age and born in Sunderland.
The reference is RG11/3349 fo 38 pg 15
Jon
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Hi Jon,
Sorry for delay in reply. I had seen this 1881 Census record some time before but passed on it, given he was a 'servant/musician' , when previously he had been a compositor printer. But now with the new Alfred Gordon musical connection, you are right to raise this as a possibility. I think it is very plausible given date and place of birth.
Also showed he was a Widower. I have done another Census search Ancestry 1871 & 1891-1911without success, same re marriage.
At least a step ahead on last finding of 1861.
Cheers
Ian
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I felt sure that you would have seen it at one time or other... it (the snippet I attached) has been sitting on my PC desktop for some months in the hope that I could find some other corroboration. I haven't so I thought I would post it anyway in the hope that someone else's ingenuity could advance us further. I do feel this is probably him.
I find it odd that after marrying Jane Pearson in 1860, he is living, sans wife and described as unmarried, with his mother and brothers in 1861 though it may just be that Elizabeth Gordon S. filled in her census return incorrectly in so describing him.
Regards,
Jon
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Hi Jon,
Your last point re marriage to Jean Pearson 1860 is a new revelation to me. Given stated unmarried 1861 Census I had not looked for marriage prior to that date. Can you elaborate further.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi Ian,
I believe he married Jane Pearson on 16 Apr 1860 at St. John, Newcastle. She was aged 20 and the daughter of William Pearson, tanner. Sorry, I don't have any more details than that with me (out in Norway at present) but at the weekend I'll see if I can track down the full marriage info which I assume from that note in my PAF file I must have recorded at some point.
Regards,
Jon
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Sorry Ian ... I couldn't locate my original noted reference (i.e. the full marriage entry which I will have noted during one of my rare trips to Tyne & Wear Archives) though I will try again on my next trip home. I'm confident that I wouldn't have copied it into my PAF notes if the father's name hadn't been John Stephenson, engineer, but all the same I'll feel happier when I'm able to give you the full source info.
Regards,
Jon
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Hi Jon,
Not a problem. I see the record you have found as referenced Apr-Jun 1860 Newcastle Vol 10B Pg 82 Line 6 on Marriage Registration Index, Jane Pearson & Leonard Stephenson. Await with interest your update at some later date.
Presume you meant father John being a 'Chemist' rather than Engineer.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi All
I have just done a bit of further research on the Leonard Stephenson citation in the 1881 census.
It says he resided at 37 Clumber Street and Crystal Palace is noted. Crystal Palace was a hotel, which makes sense as there is also a barmaid residing at the same address. Sadly it appears to have closed in 1979.
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Henry Leonard/Layton Stephenson features in today's Newcastle Evening Chronicle!
http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/history/newcastle-children-sentenced-jail-hard-11290012#rlabs=1%20p$1
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Hi Kiwifroggy and Jon good to see your posts and glad some of us are still active on this board. I have emailed the Chronical today with an update on young Henry's life and turn around and will be interesting to see if anything comes from it.
I am no further ahead in my research on the Stephenson or Gordon lines unfortunately. I have been busy helping out my daughter at renovating her house so the research has taken a step or so backwards.
Have been toying about uploading some old photo's from my wife's grandmothers album as this has a lot of family (New Zealand side relating to Henry (snr)) inrespect of which many names are unknown. Clearly will be interesting for NZ Stephenson's, but maybe UK side as well especially family likenesses etc . If I get the time I will post these.
Be good to hear from others if they are still following this Board.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi all,
As promised I will now post some new photo's relating to Henry (Snr's) side of the family (for those new to this board he is JAS's brother) who arrived in in New Zealand from 1874.
He had 5 children from 2 marriages 1st married Isabella Park 1853 (she died 1862) and had 3 children William John Layton Stephenson b 1854 Warwickshire, Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson b 1855 Hartlepool and Henry Layton Stephenson b 1859 Castle Eden.
Second marriage to Annie Sheahan 1867 and had 2 daughters (Lottie)Mary Charlotte Stephenson b 1868 India a (Beattie) Beatrice May Ann Stephenson b 1876 Ashburton. Beattie is my wife's grandmother. The photo's come from her Album.
The elder children from 1st marriage followed Henry to NZ at varying times. They apparently had a close relationship as contact was maintained with interaction with the siblings and their children.
The first photo is of a family group in Ashburton (circa 1900) Beattie is the 2nd from RIGHT front row. You can see the family resemblance with some of the other girls who would be her elder siblings children.
If you can identify any of the people in the photo that would be great.
Cheers
Ian
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What a wonderful photo Ian. As you say, some likenesses are evident - I'm very struck by the young lad in the top left in front of the tree with the happy smiling face who looks v. similar to Henry Layton Stephenson b. 1859. Who is he?
Jon
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Hi Jon,
Thanks for feedback. Sorry I don't know who he is. In fact nor any of the others other than Beattie and possibly a guess on a couple of others.
Didn't realise photo would come out as big as it did so will repost a smaller version so all details can be seen.
Will also post more on Henry (Snr), wife Annie and Beattie shortly. Unfortunately I don't have any of other daughter Lottie. Will then post the other photos of wider family some known others not.
Cheers
Ian
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Resized photo of group.
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Here are the others.
I think Kate Dickson is possibly 2nd from right in 2nd row of the group photo.
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Henry (Snr) with his railway men New Plymouth and grandson Rory (Bernard Brumwell Gordon Wildermoth b 1896) Lotties son. Photo circa 1900.
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I am now attaching two family group photo's. The quality is not good as these are photocopies only as provided by a relative of Henry (Snr's) daughter Elizabeth Gordon Stephenson who married Jacob Mooar. However they are important as these lead into individual photos from Beattie's Album.
Ist photo is of a family group circa 1905 with Henry Layton Stephenson (Jnr) b 1859, 5th from Left front row.
2nd photo is of the Mooar Family, again circa 1905. You can see that they are probably in the first photo in the back rows.
The Mooar family group are front (Pearl) Indianna Wilhelmina Pearl Mooar,
2nd row from left (Liz) Elizabeth Gordon Mooar, Jacob Mooar, Elizabeth Gordon Mooar (nee Stephenson), (Beana) Annie Beana Louise Mooar,
Back row from left (Bill) Albert William Mooar, (Harry) Jacob Henry Mooar, Carl Mooar, (Len) Leonard Mooar.
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Photos of the Mooar children clearly earlier than the 1905 shot.
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Carl
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The following is I think Pearl but circa 1905
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The following photos are of unknown people. Some a have a name. I hope someone can identify and advise.
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continuing
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continuing
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continuing
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The next 4 appear to be the same person
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continuing
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Some couples.
I believe Harry and Madge's wedding is that of Henry Newton Stephenson and Margaret Docherty married 1900. Note Henry went by name of Harry and likely that my earlier photo of 'Harry possibly Stephenson' is one and same. Son of William Layton Stephenson and Frances Newton.
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more
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25Unknown this could possibly be Kate Dickenson. I also attach other possible photos of her. I know the one with American outfit is her.
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More
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Two older men. One I believe is Henry Layton Stephenson (Jnr b 1859)
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Final photo's cover my Wife's Grandmother Beattie's marriage to James Monaghan 1912 in New Plymouth, a family shot with son Martin and daughter Madeline, a photo of Martin with Harry & Madge Stephenson and their daughter Nellie in Lower Hutt 1946 and finally a photo of Martin Monaghan and (Katie) Catherine Monaghan (nee Crowley) again 1946. Martin and Katie are my wife's parents.
Hope you find all the photos of interest and that we might get some positive leads to establishing the names and family links of the unknown details.
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What fabulous photos! Thank you so much for sharing. I do have a couple of questions though....
1. Where does Fanny Stephenson fit in?
2. Where does Katie Dickenson fit in?
Thanks again
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Hi Kiwifroggy,
Unfortunately I know nothing on these two individuals other than that names were on back some photos.
Glad you liked the photos. Actually I feel so relieved at having got them out on this Board for other Stephenson Family members to hopefully find a previously unknown photo of someone in their direct line. It would have been a real shame if these were just kept in the bottom draw and remained lost to the appropriate family.
I have been the beneficiary of information, photos and documents shared by others on this Board so I know the value of and appreciate what I have been able to receive. So to be able to return the favour and possibly help others in their family research is a great feeling.
Note. Due to posting limitations on this Board I have had to reduce the quality of the photos for download or size purposes. If anyone has the need for an individual photo at a higher resolution then just message me.
Cheers
Ian
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Hi Maggie,Altza,Brian and all the gang(too many to type),thank you all for the info and old photos etc,I feel I should let you all know,that my lovely mother in law,who was a mind of information,extremely artistic,who loved her family and her garden. Joy Denise Stephenson Conway passed away last Sunday,19th of June 2016.As she was the GG Grand daughter of John Atlantic Stephenson I feel that I had to let you all know,thank you all for the help in retrieving the journal and other information that i know she delighted in.Much love and thanks to you all. Diane Lynch Conway.x
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Extracted today from the Gateshead East Cemetery burial registers at Tyne & Wear Archives:
[Entry No.] 16396 - Elizabeth Gordon-Stephenson - widow of John Stephenson - [aged] 72 Y - [address] 19 Ravensworth Terrace - [Date of Burial Feb] 2nd - [by] Rev. Day - [Division] C - [Grave No.] 1514 [Consecrated]
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Hi Jon, I just logged in to add an update and saw your recent post of 27 Feb. Another case where no notification rec'd from RootsChat of a new post.
Yes I have that info.
You mentioned earlier that Leonard Stephenson married 1860, though was still shown as single 1861 Census. I finally decided to get the Certificate to confirm details.
Marriage 16 April 1860 St John's Newcastle Leonard Stephenson, Age Fullage, Bachelor, occupation Printer, Father John Stephenson a Chemist. Married Jane Pearson Age 20, Spinster, Father William Pearson a Tanner.
So clearly is our Leonard as you thought.
Cheers
Ian
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Thanks for that confirmation Ian.
Your info also suggests that this baptism at St. Andrews which I've had in my notes for a while as a 'possible' for Jane can now be upgraded to 'probable':-
Jane Dau: of - William & Isabella - Pearson - Gallowgate - Leather Dresser - J. Ilderton [BT, Newcastle St. Andrew, 19 Apr 1835]
Jon
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Hi Jon,
Yes I think you are correct with William & Isabella as her parents. Jane is shown on her marriage cert as Age 20 but presumably just means over 20 as she was in fact aged 25. I have found further details as follows;
William Pearson married Isabella Arnold 10-3-1832 St Mary, Newington, Surrey,Southwark (London England, Church of England Marriages & Banns, 1754-1921).
Child Eliza born 19-12-1832, baptised 19-5-1833 St Mary Magdalene Bermondsey Southwark, same parents names and father's occupation Leather Finisher. (London England, Church of England Birth & Baptisms 1813-1906)
Family must have moved to Newcastle shortly after as Jane's baptism was 1835 as you have identified already--(Jane Dau: of - William & Isabella - Pearson - Gallowgate - Leather Dresser - J. Ilderton [BT, Newcastle St. Andrew, 19 Apr 1835])
Mary Ann born 28-2-1837, baptised 7-6-1837 St Mary Magdalene Bermondsey Southwark. Same parent names. Father Leather Dresser. (London England, Church of England Birth & Baptisms 1813-1906)
William born 1839 approx. Newcastle.
I couldn't find family in 1841 Census in Newcastle but they appear on the Census for Surrey, St George The Martry, Kent Rd.
William age 30 'Leather Dresser', Isabella age 30, Eliza 8, Jane 6, Mary Ann 4 & William 3
1851 Census family back in Newcastle this time in Westgate. William's occ 'Leather Draper (Dresser)'. All children the same except Mary Ann not shown. I believe I found her in the household of John & Rachel Walton in Westgate where she was living as a servant. A slight variance in age though at 16 rather than 14 but born London so appears in order.
1861 Census Westgate found William Pearson age 48 'Leather Draper' (Dresser) born Bermondsey Surrey but wife shown as Margaret age 37 born Newcastle. Isabella must have died and he has remarried.
Cheers
Ian
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Great research as usual Ian ... if you ever take this up professionally, put me down as a potential client!
Jon
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Thanks Jon I appreciate the comment. Truth is though I was just following up on your previous leads, which demonstrates the collective research benefits from participation in this 'Board'.
Cheers
Ian
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Well its been along time without a Post being made, but I hope all previous contributors are still following. I just noted that in a recent newsletter from Durham Records Online they included the following transcript;
Tynemouth Christ Church marriages 1837-1842
1,172 marriages at Christ Church Tynemouth in the Tynemouth district of Northumberland, from 1 July 1837 (when civil registration started) to the end of 1842. These have all the details you want, except that most of them say “full age” (meaning over 21, the age of consent) instead of giving the actual age.
19 Jan 1840 William Brumwell (bachelor, master mariner), full age, of this parish, son of John Brumwell (surgeon) married Mary Frances Moses (spinster), full age, of the parish of Cockfield, County of Durham, daughter of Thomas Moses (architect), by licence
Witnesses: Martha Moses, Thomas Oxley
Abodes listed other than this parish include many in County Durham, which lies just across the River Tyne. Primarily we see Bishopwearmouth, Earsdon, Gateshead, Gosforth, Heworth, Hexham, Newcastle, Wallsend, and quite a few from South Shields.
This ties in with the earlier posts on page 27 (240 & 241) where Jon surmised that the clerk had wrongly entered the fathers name as John rather than William.
Cheers Ian
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I have another Post to make this time about the benefits of DNA Testing for genealogical purposes and why those associated with the 'Stephenson' family should consider doing so.
Firstly it can help prove family connections and also prove or disprove those stories that have been passed down through family circles.
As I have mentioned previously my wife's Great Grandmother Annie Sheehan, the wife (2nd wife) of Henry Stephenson (Snr), was stated to have been an Anglo Indian, her father Irish and her mother Indian. Well my wife and two of her sisters have all done DNA tests and all three have had their ethnicity confirmed as 100% European. Clearly her GGMother was born in India but both her Parents were European and presumably Irish.
On Ancestry DNA my wife has had a High Match with a Peter Stephenson (100 centimorgans shared across 2 DNA segments) suggesting a 3rd or 4th Cousin. He has just uploaded a Family Tree to his DNA and his direct line is from JAS >Philip Charles John Stephenson >John Clement Stephenson. However of great interest is that he has identified John Stephenson (the Chemist) as being a John E Stephenson born 1791 Cooladerry Farm, Raphoe, Donegal, Ireland and who's parents were Robert M Stephenson 1753 - 1838, Margaret "Peggy" Lindsey 1756 - 1846. Robert's father is stated as a Andrew Stephenson b1720 in Ayrshire, Scotland who died 1798 Raphoe, Donegal, Ireland.
Because no one on this Board has been able to establish where John was born, other than circa 1795 presumed Yorkshire, Peter's Tree could be a great advance for us. Given the importance of this I have asked him if he could provide the documented proof of his findings. I await, as I am sure we all will, his confirmation.
If others can now do a DNA Test it would help in linking the family ties. It really is an easy and relatively cheap process with many benefits.
Cheers Ian
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Peter Stephenson has come back to me to say the link to John E Stephenson from Donegal has proven to be in error.
Cheers Ian
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I was sceptical for several reasons Ian, despite the apparent DNA support... but didn't want to say. Thanks for the update.
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Hi Jon good to see you at least are still following, the Others? Yes I also had my doubts given stated family names and Ireland and reason I asked for documentary evidence. At least another family member has been linked to JAS.
Cheers Ian
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John Stephenson's (Snr) 'Treatise on the Manufacture of Saltpetre' printed Calcutta 1835, is now available as a Google Ebook. Has 113 pages and original is sourced from the British Museum, with a reference to the writer as John William James Stephenson. However the Treatise only states by John Stephenson.
A couple of interesting points.
He states he was responsible for the Government Factories in Behar which included the Singhea Factory. Pages 69 to 86 detail his Experiments at Singhea over the period 1831 to 1834. Singhea was where Henry, Harriet (Indianna) & Catherine were born 1832,1833 and 1835 respectively.
Page 33 has the following statement;
'But in a climate like India, an Englishman would sink under the usual work that his fellow Indian labourer effects, especially over a steaming saltpetre boiler. From 1824 to 1828, I paid my workmen in London at the rate of 16 shillings a week, equal to £3-6s per month.'
We know he went to India in 1829, but the assumption was that he came from Newcastle. However given the above he might have actually been based in London.
The Ebook can be found here:
https://books.google.co.nz/books?id=a8Gw9YWu84cC&printsec=frontcover&dq=JOHN+STEPHENSON+SALTPETRE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjPvZCniv3cAhUW5LwKHWnOArkQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=JOHN%20STEPHENSON%20SALTPETRE&f=false
Cheers Ian
PS Re the name of John William James Stephenson I knew I had commented on this before and did so here on page 19 as follows;
Maggie,
I went to British Library for a few hours in 2009 to search for one of JS Snr's Journals, in the hope it may give educational titles or any other reference that could assist in researching him further.
THe 1835 Journal was part of a rare book and could not be copied or scanned, but I was able to review.
British Library had the author down as John William James Stephenson, so I was quite exicited by this as only seen references as just John Stephenson. However in reviewing book the cover page showed the following:
'Treatise on the manufacture of saltpetre, descriptive of the operations and proper plans to be used for the manufacture of culmee & cooteah'
'Dedicated by permission to the Chamber of Commerce of Calcutta by John Stephenson, Calcutta 1835 Late Superintendant of the Hon Company's saltpetre factories in Behare'.
Where the BL got the name JWJS from this was unclear. However they did have another reference to a Elementary Treatise on Mechanics by JWJS but this was dated1864. In the end I concluded the 1835 book indexed to JWJS was incorrect.
Just mentioning this so you don't repeat this search when you are at BL. BL Ref:
http://catalogue.bl.uk/F/Q45IBS2IDSB1C38T3MLVSM29X33BSAGLRAHMXABEJRBNK4K19N-16024?func=find-acc&acc_sequence=027669987
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Hi all! Sorry for being away for so long. I lost my login details, and because my email address has changed I couldn't retrieve them; OK now.
Just going back over previous posts to catch up.
All that I can add is that my great grandfather, John Smith Stephenson, won the Sunderland Quoits Championship in 1885! I have the cup.
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Hi Brian welcome back. Just a thought, but have you considered doing a Genealogy DNA test to help further research your Stephenson Genealogy. Many providers of DNA Testing now at very reasonable cost. Ancestry, FTDNA, MyHeritage, LivingDNA & 23andme etc.
Cheers Ian
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Hi Ian, I had been thinking about that actually.
I'll have a look at the service providers and set the ball rolling.
Do you know if anyone has tried the Literary and Philosophical Society in Newcastle upon Tyne? I'll go and see what I can find, just as another avenue to explore.
Brian
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Hi all
I'm another descendant of JAS and have just read these posts with great interest.
I beleive he's my GGGF. Someone mentioned Dennis and Elsie in this thread, and I've heard my parents talk about them alot before.
My Dad used to live in Jesmond with his parents as a child.
I'll see them at Xmas so will gather everyone around the PC and note down here all the lineage that they are aware of for you all.
:)
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Hi all, I stumbled into a chat room on site and some very helpful people were straight on the case for me.
I have a possible hit for the John Stephenson we can't get past in 1800.
1784-1844 John Stephenson born Triconopoly, India.
Died 04 December 1844. Oldham, Lancashire.
The information linked Elizabeth Gordon and the Brumwell name.
Has anyone come across this information already?
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Painting by JAS. Low Friar Street, Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Hi Brian,
I think that info can probably be classed as 'dubious': the death date is correct but Ian has already purchased John's death certificate which shows him to have died in Heworth on that date, not Oldham. The mention of Trichinopoly looks interesting given the family connection with India but the date is out - he was born c. 1790 according to his age at death. It's the same with a lot of potentially intriguing info online unfortunately: without a source, it doesn't help much and can often send people off in the wrong direction entirely.
I'm still flying a flag for my suggestion of John being born at Romaldkirk in North Yorkshire in 1790, son of William Stephenson and Mary nee Layton. I have some circumstantial evidence for that (Layton as a middle name given to daughter Katherine for example) but not enough to stand as genealogical 'proof'.
Cheers,
Jon
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Hi Jon,
That's disappointing, but I did wonder how the people I was chatting with came up with that so quickly.
I did notice that they made an incorrect link to George Stephenson, Railway Engineer; so I put them right on that.
What was interesting was one comment about Elizabeth Gordon; another Gordon thought the family were from Berwick upon Tweed; apparently this came from their own searches, but not sure that it helps.
Are you still researching the Romaldmirk link?
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Not actively, no, Brian ... in fact my own connection is via the Brumwells rather than the Stephensons so I really just followed up because John & Eliz Stephenson and their offspring seemed such an interesting family group and because Ian had done such a sterling job in laying out juicy tidbits of info and clues!
The other couple of bits of circumstantial evidence I found at the time were that the John Stephenson x at Romaldkirk in 1790 had a sister Harriet who possibly married a Jacob Wilson and had several children, a couple of which were x at Heworth. And that Leonard seems to have been a family name of the Stephensons clustered around Romaldkirk. Of course, both Harriet and Leonard were used as forenames by John & Elizabeth for their children.
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I know that I had a copy of the Stephenson family tree; not sure if it was from maggie360 or if it was posted on here at some point.
Just wondering if anyone can supply a copy, which I'll pay for of course?
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John Brumell would be a cousin of William's (Wm's mother was Isabella nee Brumell). I'm sure there is another family connection at some point between the Brumwells and the Brumells as you surmise. I suspect John Brumell, gent., may be a son of the marriage of Hawdon Brumell, Wm's 1st cousin, and Dorothy Peareth since this branch were close to the Brumwells (e.g. "Brumwell, William son of Brumwell, John, barber surgeon with chandler is aged 20 years & upwards. Deposition of Brumell, Hawdon, grocer of Newcastle, sworn before Blackett, John 7 Apr 1777.")
John Clayton is a Tyneside Great - he was the town clerk who oversaw the redevelopment of Newcastle in the 1830s and 40s under Dobson and Grainger and which left the town, now city, with the beautiful centre it has to this day.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Clayton_(town_clerk)
Regards,
Jon
I noticed that you mention a Hawdon Brumell. Hawdon is an unusual first name - and it is my family line's last name. This got my interest, because I see the name Brumell come up in my research.
In 1828, a George Brumell and a Henry Brumell signed as witnesses on the last will and testament of my 4x g-grandfather, William Hawdon. If I remember correctly, I have also seen Brumell signatures on other documents related to my family. William Hawdon was born in Hull, Yorkshire, England and died in Morpeth, England.
Does that line up for you to believe that our ancestors might have been close friends? I can't help but think that there must have been a Hawdon daughter that married a Brumell and bore a son that they named Hawdon Brumell.
I'm trying to find anything I can on William Hawdon now, so if there might be a connection, I would be interested to see if we have any info that might be helpful to each other.
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Hi Shawd,
The Brumells are connected to the Brumwells in some way but some distance from my own lines so excuse my information being somewhat sketchy. Also this thread is primarily about the Stephenson connection into the Brumwells so I don't want to drift too far 'off topic'.
The only notes I have which might be of some help to you are that the Isabella BRUMELL who married John BRUMWELL in 1752 was the daughter of William Brumell and Mary nee HAWDON who married at St. Nicholas, Newcastle-on-Tyne on 6th June 1725 (listed as William Brumwell in the marriage entry - I'm sure the spelling of the name was pretty much interchangeable the further you go back). According to my note, a William Hawdon, mariner, was a witness but please validate that for yourself. He may be the elder brother of Mary, born 1692. Also, as mentioned earlier, Isabella's younger brother Hawdon Brumell married a Dororthy Peareth in 1769.
On the Hawdon side, you mention William Hawdon of Morpeth, surgeon. He looks to be the Wm Hawdon who married Ann Crosier at Felton in 1798 and I don't see any obvious connection to the Hawdons above so it might be just a coincidence that his will was signed by 2 Brumells - they were, after all, solicitors in the town. The most likely parents of Mary Hawdon who m. William Brumell are Cuthbert Hawdon and Margaret nee Wardhaugh who married on 4 Apr 1677 at St. Nicholas.
Jon
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Thanks for the helpful reply Jon! It does sound like a coincidence then, and it makes sense if they were the solicitors in town.
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Maggie,
I found this post and chat room searching for info on my Stephenson family.
My direct maternal ggggg great grandmother was Margaret Peggy Lindsey Stephenson (1757-1842), wife of Robert Stephenson (1753-1837). I have done autosomal and mtdna tests.
The tree I was given about my Stephenson family, has a reference to John Atlantic as being the son of John Stephenson, son of Robert and Peggy. In reading this chat, I now know this is incorrect.
There is much talk about THE George Stephenson, and how everyone is related. There is a book "Recollections of a long life, 1829-1915" written by Isaac Stephenson, grandson of Margaret and Robert whom was a Senator in the US where I am from. I live in the city he basically founded and is buried with many other Stephenson family members. I just spend the day at the cemetery yesterday doing more research. In this book, he states that Andrew Stephenson (his great grandfather and father of the above mentioned Robert Stephenson) and George Stephenson, the engineer, came from the same stock. The footnote reads:
1. George Stephenson, who built the first passenger railroad from Liverpool to Manchester, and the first locomotive, the Rocket, used on the line, was born in the village of Wylam, eight miles west of Newcastle-on Tyne. "A tradition is, indeed, preserved in the family that old Robert Stephenson's father (George Stephenson's great-grandfather) and mother came across the border from Scotland on the loss of considerable property there." Smiles' Life of George Stephenson; John Murray: London 1857.
My branch is very large. I guess when your family member has 17 children of which 15 came to North America there is a lot to research.
I am glad to be a part of this huge Stephenson family and look forward to learning more about my ancestors and relatives who are on the side of the pond.
Hope all of you are well and safe with the whole COVID thing going on. It hasn't really hit us here yet in my area.
Cindy
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Hi Cindy, whereabouts in the US are you?
I have a possible 'cousin' in Springfield Illinois; It's a Pam Stephenson Lewis.
She spotted my name on a Facebook post and contacted me; I understand that a member of her family has been trying to find their roots.
It just made me wonder if you had any contact with her, or possible connection.
Brian
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Hello Brian,
I have not had contact with Pam, and am not quite certain which Stephenson she belongs to. But, I am more than willing to look into things. It's always nice to make new connections to fill in the blanks. I will see if I can find her on FB and send her a message.
Thank you. I hope everyone is safe and well.
Cindy
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Ian et al.,
Just noticed today that Henry Leonard Stephenson (b. 1859) appears on the front cover of this book published as long ago as 2006. He's top row middle photograph.
Jon
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Victorian-Villains-Prisoners-Newcastle-1871-1873/dp/1857951085/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=victorian+villains&qid=1600534565&sr=8-1
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I wanted to ask about mary Emily stephenson I found a grave at oamaru and wondered if she was family. I know alfreda Minnie and ivy were in Moraki area I have picture of grave but has little details looks like she died 1950 at about 74 years old.
andHi Fjhs,
Welcome. I am also in NZ but I have deferred responding as I knew Bryan was likely to make contact, which he has, being a direct descendant of William Layton Stephenson and he can update you on his family connections here. Williams parentage and wider family connections are well covered in this forum, so you will find this of interest I am sure.
I can tell you that Frances Newton's parents were William Newton (a Blacksmith) b Abt 1819 and Frances Plettes b Abt 1817. They were married 1838 in Durham.
In 1871 they were living at 28 Commercial St Crook Durham with children Frances age 14 & John Thomas Newton age 19.
In addition they also had a Mary J Newton b Abt 1844 & Sarah A Newton b Abt 1854.
Frances married William 13-5-1877 at St Ann's Church St Andrew Auckland Durham with her brother John being a witness.
In addition to their children you refer to as being born in NZ they also had a son Harry Newton Stephenson b Abt 1878 Newcastle England. He and his parents sailed from England on the 1-11-1878 and arrived NZ 18-1-1879 on the ship Waikato.
Regards
Ian
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There is a fanny Agnes Stephenson she was married to Robert William Stephenson and they lived in birdings flat and baptised a child robert William James Stephenson in 1889. I have sighted the records at the christchurch public library records and have a photo for anyone that would like it.in
What fabulous photos! Thank you so much for sharing. I do have a couple of questions though....
1. Where does Fanny Stephenson fit in?
2. Where does Katie Dickenson fit in?
Thanks again
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Hi all
I am encroaching here as I'm not related to any of the families but I have an interest in Capt William Brumwell 1813-1854.
I found the details of his death and image of the headstone many years ago and was wondering if anyone had ever acquired a copy of his death record and knew his cause of death?
I have read the account of the Voyage of the Ann Dashwood, the ship which he commanded in 1853, sailing from England to Australia via Cape Town and it shows him as a drunk, acting in what could be called an insane manner at times. I thought when I first read the account that perhaps he was mentally ill or affected by a disease such as syphilis? I am intrigued to know his cause of death and if that sheds any light on his behaviour.
If you haven't read the account, here it is. Would make a great movie. https://www.dashstory.com/EdwardJournal.pdf
My interest is due to the fact that my great great grandmother and 7 children, the eldest being my great grandfather, were on board the Ann Dashwood. They are referred to a few times in the diary being the woman and seven children who boarded the ship in Cape Town. The Captain only allowed her 1 berth for all of them (told her to sit up at night) and rations for 2 1/2 people, increased to 3 1/2 after Edward Dash remonstrated with the captain.
Mandy (I'm in South Australia)