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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Dumfriesshire => Topic started by: GeePee on Sunday 08 August 10 10:31 BST (UK)

Title: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Sunday 08 August 10 10:31 BST (UK)
I have just been given a link to this website and on initial reading it seems to be a vast resource with lots of knowledgeable people  :)

So here goes. My family originated in Scotland and the links go back to a dead end (at the moment) in Ecclefechan.  I cannot find that village as a parish in Dumfriesshire, but suspect it could be under Hoddam.  Could anyone confirm that, please. My family name is Graham - so not much chance of finding someone with the names John, James or Graham!  >:(

GeePee
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 08 August 10 10:39 BST (UK)
Hi

welcome to Rootschat.

You are correct. Some info here:

https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hoddam,_Dumfries-shire,_Scotland


Gadget
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Sunday 08 August 10 11:49 BST (UK)
Hi

welcome to Rootschat.

You are correct. Some info here:

https://wiki.familysearch.org/en/Hoddam,_Dumfries-shire,_Scotland

Gadget

Thank you  :)  That was quick. FYI my family roots come from Ecclefechan and the family bible says they lived in a dwelling 'next door' to Thomas Carlisle, but that may just have been a bit of family exaggeration - a bit too common, I'm afraid and totally confusing for research.
GeePee
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: Gadget on Sunday 08 August 10 11:51 BST (UK)
Hi

If you need some help, can you put up details such as age/date of  birth, family group etc. and we can see if we can assist  :)


Gadget
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Sunday 08 August 10 14:47 BST (UK)
Hi
If you need some help, can you put up details such as age/date of  birth, family group etc. and we can see if we can assist  :)
Gadget

Many thanks for the offer.  I will collate the information, and post a query....but not today as I am supposed to be working on an urgent Beta test.
GeePee
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Sunday 08 August 10 17:37 BST (UK)
Finished my work, so herewith the detail of the family
GEORGE GRAHAM B 1811
was my Great-Great Grandfather & born in 1811 (possibly in Ecclefechan) but  lived there for sometime until he moved to a district near Sunderland. No date of death,

He had five children: Barbara b 1837, John (my Great Grandfather) b 1839, d 1928, and Catherine Johnstone Graham b 1834 all in Ecclefechan. The other two children, William b 1841 and Katherine 1842, both born in Sunderland district.

So from the birth date and location of the first three children, we can assume he was there until 1839.

George, from the details in a family bible, not in my possession was said to have been a coachman for a family called Jordan. He courted the daughter, Jean and they ran away to get wed at Gretna. The angry father chased them and stopped the wedding but because the daughter was compromised a wedding took place in the family home. The family later moved to the USA. How much of this can be believed, I do not know but it makes an interesting story.
Some years ago, I went to Ecclefechan and searched some church records and records in the local library but found nothing.  Graham is a very common name of course. I would be very interested  in anything that can be gleaned about the family. 

The first born child, Catherine Johnstone is also intriguing and I wonder is she was not his daughter ? Sincerely Gee Pee
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: csc on Sunday 08 August 10 22:11 BST (UK)
marriage 28/01/1831 george graham/jean jardine lochmaben      barbara bryson graham 1837  middlebie catherinne johnstone 1834  mothers name jane on birth  csc
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: csc on Monday 09 August 10 06:41 BST (UK)
these children are born eaglesfield csc
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Monday 09 August 10 07:47 BST (UK)
Why did I not find this forum ages ago?  Thanks a lot for those two snippets csc
GeePee
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: bruros on Monday 16 August 10 00:01 BST (UK)
Greetings GeePee and Gadget ! I just read you exchange of info. which is v.interesting . For what it mat be worth to you in your research, my Gr.Gr.Gr.Gr.Grandfather was William Graham ( b.1740 ) his wife was Jean Johnston ( b.1744) . They had, three sons ( to the best of my knowledge ! ) :- Thomas (b. 1783), Richard ( b.1765), and John (b.1786). I am descended from Thomas and his wife Jane Johnston's son George ,( b.1823) who had a brother , William (b.1821) and two sisters, Hellen and Isabella ( b. 1816 and 1817 respectively.) I believe "all of the above " were born in Middlebie. They then emigrated to Manchester ( Chorlton upon Medlock to be precise ) , and two generations later they were scattered to the four winds ( and I don'mean maybe !)....South of England, California and recently ( 1966 ! ! ) New Zealand. I guess this info. will be interesting, but I hope it might be useful ! ....by the way, to get Maps in GREAT detail, do a Google Search on :- bt.com,residential ( = the Brit.Phone Book ! ) and on their first page do an advanced search for ( for example ) "Graham . G. Canonbie "( or Ecclefechan ). Keep on entering Grahams , of various initials, until you come up with a list, and then click on "maps "on the same page. Once a map comes up , you can adjust the Zoom substantially ! Good luck ! That particular method has given me a much better understanding of Dumfriesshire, than any Atlas I've seen ! Cheers the noo and a'that , Bruce Graham
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Monday 16 August 10 08:14 BST (UK)
Greeting to you too, Bruce. Subsequent to the exchanges, above, I have had some wonderful comprehensive information from another forum member who lives in the district where my family originated. (just shows how many very helpful people are about :) )
Also the information I had and have received could be a red herring, because there were so many Grahams in that area with common names that, unless you check them out carefully, you could be on the wrong track.
We do have common names in the Ecclefechan area (Eaglesfield etc)...
I have George b 1811 (Birth registered Lochmaben) who married Jean Jardine b 1816
They had five children, Catherine Johnstone b 1837 Reg. Eaglesfield; Barbara Bryson b 1837, Reg. Eaglesfield; John, b 1839 reg Eaglesfield; then William b 1841 and Katherine b 1842 both in West Bolden, Sunderland.
George and Jean moved south with the first three children to the Sunderland area - he as a road laborer following the construction of the Gt North Road and settled in W Bolden initially.  No records of the Manchester area :(

So, there are common names and other commonalities, such as Catherine's second name of 'Johnstone' etc.

Keep in touch and I will see how the family could be connected.
Graham
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: bruros on Monday 16 August 10 09:09 BST (UK)
Good evening GeePee , from New Zealand !! ! Hey , thanks a bunch for your swift reply ! I often shove in  a few remarks , and ask a couple of questions, when I crack into a site that looks as though the "occupant "and myself have "common ground ", it very often happens that no-body EVER comes back to me ! ! YOU HAVE DONE ! I am MOST grateful for that .!  As I look through the History of the various Graham Families, particularly in "The Debateable Lands ", it certainly is a wonder that ANY records survive to the present day. I am most definately very pleased that I was born in 1940 , NOT 1640 , or some date between then and well after the Rebellion of 1745 ! ! ! When I am pursuing Grahams, on Ancestry .com., I am frankly AMAZED at the vast number who re-located to the early Colonies , like Virginia . Being a bit of a Banjo and Guitar player, ( not to mention the Violin ! ! )I am always VERY keen to hear re-makes of the traditional "Scots/ Irish "music, still played in such parts as The Appalacians etc.... Thanks again for the reply, look forward to keeping in touch. Cheers the noo and' a'that, Bruce Graham
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: janeli_1 on Monday 11 October 10 19:25 BST (UK)
My gg grandparents John Kerr and Mary Gowanlock were both born in Scotland somewhere about 1800.  They are in the 1851 census living in Hoddam, Dumfriesshire.    They moved to Wigton, Cumberland 1863.  Upon his death in 1877, John's body was taken to the Ecclefechan Station from there to be buried at St Mungo Church. 

I am unable to find any record of their births or marriage.  I read it a message posted (somewhere??) that John was the son of John Kerr and his second wife Jane Moffat and that he was born Sept 1 1799.  That doesn't seem to fit with census records which place him born bet 1801-1804.  My family record show him son of William Kerr and Phillis   which fits with d daughters named Phillis.   I have no dates whatsoever for William and Phillis although children are:  Andrew, George, (1810-1826) Jane, John (abt 1804-1877) and Thomas (1817-1881).  Also an unnamed female child.  John and Mary had at least 3 children who emigrated to Canada:  William, Jannet and Mary.   I have lots of information for Canada and some  for northern England all after 1800.  I would love help for the generations born before 1800. 

If you wish to contact me personally (*)

Looking forward to hearing from "long lost relatives"!!

Jan

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Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Tuesday 12 October 10 16:56 BST (UK)
My gg grandparents John Kerr and Mary Gowanlock were both born in Scotland somewhere about 1800.  They are in the 1851 census living in Hoddam, Dumfriesshire.    They moved to Wigton, Cumberland 1863.  Upon his death in 1877, John's body was taken to the Ecclefechan Station from there to be buried at St Mungo Church. 

I am unable to find any record of their births or marriage.  I read it a message posted (somewhere??) that John was the son of John Kerr and his second wife Jane Moffat and that he was born Sept 1 1799.  That doesn't seem to fit with census records which place him born bet 1801-1804.  My family record show him son of William Kerr and Phillis   which fits with d daughters named Phillis.   I have no dates whatsoever for William and Phillis although children are:  Andrew, George, (1810-1826) Jane, John (abt 1804-1877) and Thomas (1817-1881).  Also an unnamed female child.  John and Mary had at least 3 children who emigrated to Canada:  William, Jannet and Mary.   I have lots of information for Canada and some  for northern England all after 1800.  I would love help for the generations born before 1800. 

If you wish to contact me personally (*)

Looking forward to hearing from "long lost relatives"!!

Jan

(*) Moderator Comment: e-mail removed in accordance with RootsChat policy,
to avoid
Hi Jan As you will see I started this thread way back in August. There does not seem to be any connection between my 'Graham' family and yours, so I would suggest you start a new threadf with your information.  I have found that there are some wonderful people on this web site and I have been given so much inofrmation that I am still strying to sort it into some sort of readable order.  Good luck with your searching.  Therre is a lot of good information out there....
Graham

Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: Wul on Tuesday 12 October 10 22:37 BST (UK)
Good evening GeePee , from New Zealand !! ! Hey , thanks a bunch for your swift reply ! I often shove in  a few remarks , and ask a couple of questions, when I crack into a site that looks as though the "occupant "and myself have "common ground ", it very often happens that no-body EVER comes back to me ! ! YOU HAVE DONE ! I am MOST grateful for that .!  As I look through the History of the various Graham Families, particularly in "The Debateable Lands ", it certainly is a wonder that ANY records survive to the present day. I am most definately very pleased that I was born in 1940 , NOT 1640 , or some date between then and well after the Rebellion of 1745 ! ! ! When I am pursuing Grahams, on Ancestry .com., I am frankly AMAZED at the vast number who re-located to the early Colonies , like Virginia . Being a bit of a Banjo and Guitar player, ( not to mention the Violin ! ! )I am always VERY keen to hear re-makes of the traditional "Scots/ Irish "music, still played in such parts as The Appalacians etc.... Thanks again for the reply, look forward to keeping in touch. Cheers the noo and' a'that, Bruce Graham

Hi Bruce and all

Bruce your Graham line may be impossible to trace from the wrong side of the border as records are not kept as well as in Scotland, but hey, I did what I could!

Regards,

William Graham
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Sunday 17 October 10 11:47 BST (UK)
May I give a public thank you to a valued member of this forum, who gave many hours of help in establishing my family tree (the Scottish part) records way back further than I could ever have done from my location in Essex.

Thanks a lot CSC, I am still sorting and recording all the information that you have sent me.

Graham 
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: Maggie1895 on Sunday 17 October 10 12:29 BST (UK)
My gg grandparents John Kerr and Mary Gowanlock were both born in Scotland somewhere about 1800.  I am unable to find any record of their births or marriage.   after 1800.  I would love help for the generations born before 1800. 

Looking forward to hearing from "long lost relatives"!!

Jan

Janeli 1, welcome to Rootschat.   Because my line is also Dumfriesshire I was reading GeePee's thread with interest, and realised your posting is 'buried' in the middle and hasn't been picked up.   Why not start a fresh thread on the same (Dumfriesshire) board with the full details you posted earlier in this thread so that people can help?

The one thing I can tell you is that I've found a OPR (Old Parish Record) for a marriage between a Mary Gowanlock and a Thomas Kerr (not John) on 20 June 1842 in Brydekirk, Dumfries.   You don't say when approx the marriage took place (often a year or two prior to the birth of the first child) so don't know if this is yours or not.    If it is, you may see more on the original entry, though OPRs do vary in the amount they record.
If you want to see it, go to Scotlands People, which is a pay per view site, but not expensive, especially considering the quality of what you often get to see.    The reference to search is 813/0B 0010 0025, or just search pre-1855 marriages for Mary Gowanlock in Dumfries and it will come up.

Do make that separate posting though - when you post in the midst of another thread it's too easy to be overlooked.   Good luck
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: janeli_1 on Monday 18 October 10 15:32 BST (UK)
Hi, Thanks.  As yet I can't figure out how to post to a new thread but will keep trying.  I believe they married around 1826.  I have tried scotlandspeople but not found them.   
I will keep trying.  Thanks again.
Jan
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: csc on Monday 18 October 10 16:13 BST (UK)
in st mungos   in memory of george kerr son of william kerr of banksidegate who died 26th june 1826 age 16 years also said william kerr who died 29th february 1844 age 64 years also phillis bell his spouse who died 10th nov 1842 age 65 years also phillis kerr daughter of john kerr grahamshall who died 15th august 1836 age 6 years also said john kerr who died at red hall in cumberland 25th nov 1877 aged 76 years also mary gowanlock his spouse who died there 4th june 1879 age 77 years   csc
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: csc on Monday 18 October 10 16:24 BST (UK)
john kerr is born 1801 lochmaben some of the family are lochmaben some st mungo   csc
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: janeli_1 on Monday 18 October 10 16:53 BST (UK)
THANK YOU!  I had most of the information but I am always grateful for any confirmation.  I didn't know the date in 1836 for death of Phillis Kerr but now have it recorded.    Also I have confusing birth dates for John Ker but have now recorded 1801 which fits with info I received many years ago.   I get excited by every new bit!!

Jan
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: csc on Monday 18 October 10 17:01 BST (UK)
john /mary have several children born hoddom the ones in brydekirk are not married till 1842 john/marys children are before that  csc
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: csc on Monday 18 October 10 17:15 BST (UK)
mary gowanlock was the daughter of james gowanlock born 1801 st mungo  csc
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: csc on Monday 18 October 10 17:25 BST (UK)
john kerr/mary gowanlock married 1827 st mungo  csc
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Monday 18 October 10 17:44 BST (UK)
Hi, Thanks.  As yet I can't figure out how to post to a new thread but will keep trying.  I believe they married around 1826.  I have tried scotlandspeople but not found them.   
I will keep trying.  Thanks again.
Jan

Hi Jan.
I presume you wish to start a new topic in "Scotland" - "Scotland General" - "Dumfries-shire"
If so, I have gone to where you need to start the new thread/topic, so just click on the link below and it will take you there.  ;) When you get to there, enter a subject at the top of the dialog box and then start your new topic.
Good luck.
Graham

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=post;board=94.0
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: janeli_1 on Monday 18 October 10 20:01 BST (UK)
I am utterly amazed at how helpful everyone is!  Thanks!!
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: GeePee on Monday 18 October 10 20:11 BST (UK)
I am utterly amazed at how helpful everyone is!  Thanks!!

I'm just a newbie but it's catching!  :)
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: Grahamo76 on Monday 13 August 18 22:39 BST (UK)
Hi , I’m new to this I am trying to find out who my John graham’s Parents were , he was born roughly in 1793 kirklinton  he married Jane carruthers 23rd April 1821 in arthuret her father was Richard graham
They had 3 children John, Richard and Jane , they moved to Castleton (newcastleton) , I am still trying to find out when both died as I think they moved back to kirklinton when they were older.. I have info on Richard carruthers janes father but I can’t find which graham line my John graham is from , can anyone help ( I know it’s a common name but I am hoping someone will know my John graham ) thank you 
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: MonicaL on Monday 13 August 18 22:45 BST (UK)
Welcome to RootsChat  :)

One possible death for Jane:

Jane Carruthers/Graham died in 1858 in Castleton, aged 61. Mother's maiden name of Dickson.

Fits well with Jane's christening details:

Name    Jane Carruthers
Residence Place    Kirk-Linton, Cumberland, England
Gender    Female
Christening Date    08 Apr 1798
Christening Date (Original)    8 Apr 1798
Christening Place    Kirk-Linton, Cumberland, England
Father's Name    Richard Carruthers
Mother's Name    Mary Dixon
www.familysearch.org/search

Monica
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: Grahamo76 on Monday 13 August 18 23:05 BST (UK)
Thank you , yes I think it’s the same jane carruthers ( my 4th great grandmother) , have you got anymore information on her family , her mother was Mary Dixon born 1769 but I don’t know anymore , I have Richard carruthers father John carruthers born 1731
Thank you again
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: robbiesmum on Tuesday 14 August 18 11:57 BST (UK)
Possible gravestone at Kirklinton?

Erected in memory of Mary daughter of John and Jane GRAHAM of Boltonfellend who died Novr 25th 1839 aged 10 years. Also of John GRAHAM their son who died at Newcastleton, Roxborough in Scotland Sept 16th 1849 aged 25 years. Also of the above Jane GRAHAM who died at Newcastleton Novr 24th 1858 aged 61 years. Also of the above John GRAHAM who died at Camp Cottage March 26th 1873 aged 79 years. Also of Jane their daughter who died at Camp Cottage June 15th 1904 aged 63 years. Also Mary ARMSTRONG daughter of the above “Jane” who died at Barclose Scaleby Jany 17th 1942 aged 72 years. Also Joseph the beloved husband of Jemima ARMSTRONG and son of the above Mary died at Barclose Scaleby Sept 21st 1952.

best wishes
robbiesmum
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 14 August 18 12:25 BST (UK)
That is a great find, robbiesmum  :)

Monica

PS: Where was Camp Cottage do you think? ADDED: Can see daughter Jane, mentioned on the MI, living at Camp Cottage, Longtown, Cumberland in 1881.
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: robbiesmum on Tuesday 14 August 18 12:54 BST (UK)
Camp Cottage was in the parish of Kirklinton, according to the parish registers, though I'm not sure exactly where
cheers
robbiesmum
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 14 August 18 12:58 BST (UK)
Thanks  :) Just added some more detail to my last post.

This may be John Snr's death reg, showing as aged 78 rather 79?

John Graham, 78, 1st QRT, 10b/302 Longtown.

Monica
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 14 August 18 13:14 BST (UK)
Found John Snr and daughter Jane in 1871 living at Camp Cottage:

John Graham 76 widower retired farmer b. Stapleton
Jane Graham 33 daughter b. Kirklinton
Jane Graham 11 grandchild b. Kirklinton
Mary Graham 1 grandchild b. Kirklinton

Monica
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: Grahamo76 on Tuesday 14 August 18 13:41 BST (UK)
I am not sure if this John and Jane graham are the ones I’m looking for they weren’t farmers
John and Jane only had 3 children as per the census states they never lost one but it could be wrong
John was born 30th nov 1823-hallfoot kirklinton
Richard was born 15th dec 1833-mossedge died 8th dec 1917 ( my 3rd grand father)
Jane  was born 24th sept 1837-joestown
Census lived in kirklinton in 1841
Census 1851 moved to Castleton lived 46 north hermitage street he was grocer and mealdealer and I am sure he was also a carrier when he first moved there

Is the grave stone for John and Jane the farmers in Castleton or my relations , can you tell me where abouts it is too or is it a transcript .  I have tried in the past to get info from newcastleton but never heard back from them
Kind regards x
Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 14 August 18 14:10 BST (UK)
If I can suggest, if you, I would start by looking at the death cert for Jane mentioned from 1858

Welcome to RootsChat  :)

One possible death for Jane:

Jane Carruthers/Graham died in 1858 in Castleton, aged 61. Mother's maiden name of Dickson.

Fits well with Jane's christening details:

Name    Jane Carruthers
Residence Place    Kirk-Linton, Cumberland, England
Gender    Female
Christening Date    08 Apr 1798
Christening Date (Original)    8 Apr 1798
Christening Place    Kirk-Linton, Cumberland, England
Father's Name    Richard Carruthers
Mother's Name    Mary Dixon
www.familysearch.org/search

Monica

The death reg may provide further details to help you with your searches now.

The details from the MI that robbiesmum has posted do seem to tie in to this Jane Carruthers. Also the age/approx birth year of the son John who died in 1849 aged 25.

Monica

Title: Re: Identifying district in Dumfriesshire - Ecclefechan
Post by: MonicaL on Tuesday 14 August 18 14:32 BST (UK)
There is an 1861 entry for a John Graham, aged 67 and a grocer with his own shop. Showing by himself. Marital status not included (pity!). He shows as born in Stapleton. This entry shows in Walton, Brampton. You could check to see if he shows earlier and then eliminate him as you have your John with wife Jane and family in 1841 and 1851.


Monica