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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Northumberland => Topic started by: Carol20 on Tuesday 17 August 10 16:37 BST (UK)
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I am looking for information/location on a buriel in All Saints Church, Newcastle upon Tyne either a memorial inscription/photograph of a headstone or if nothing, where I can get burial details maps and plans etc to locate William Hay buried 4 March 1849 aged 50, occupation baker in Pilgrim St. I found some great photos of the church on the web which shows the graveyard does still exist.
needs some suggestions
thanks from carol
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Hi Carol
The burial record for William Hay on that date gives his age as 59, address Vine Street. Unfortunately there are no grave references.
Monumental inscriptions, according to genuki, are held at Newcastle Central Library.
Christine
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Thanks for the quick reply, good info on the age as my only referance was the 1941 census that had him as 46 from Northumberland, however it might be a while before I can get to Newcastle, its another 'when I retire' jobs to do. Would you know if his wife Margery is buried in All Saints as well? She was Margery Lunn Hay born 1800 . She went to live with her daughter and died in Stockton, however I cannot find any burial record for her in the Stockton area and wondered if they managed to reunite her with William in Newcastle.
thanks again for the info
carol
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Hi Carol,
The Durham Bishop's transcripts are online and you can search for Newcastle records here -
http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=waypoint&s=waypointsOnly&c=fs%3A1309819&w=0
They are not indexed and need to be searched by image - very useful though.
As for visiting Newcastle library - there are people on here who go there regularly - perhaps you'll get a volunteer!
Christine
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Hi we have some People in common Margery and William where my 3rd grt Grand parents
Margery was Burried at St John The Baptist, Egglescliffe, Durham in Oct 1878
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Hi Nigel
Margery and William are also my 3rd Great grandparents through my female line eg my mothers mothers mother etc,starting with their daughter Mary Lunn Hay, which has been my focus of interest over the past couple of years. Things have moved on a bit since I made that post last year, a daughter chose Newcastle University for her degree so I have actually visited the area that they lived in. I am currently going systematically through the family search image documents that are on line and have found some interesting related documents including Margery's mothers X as a signature on a marriage license.
If I can be of any help please ask
Carol
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Hi Carol
It would be great to find out any more info you might have.Henry and Mary are my 2nd and then Job Robson Savage and Violet fawcet .There is a tread on here about Henry's brother Job Savage
regards Nigel
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Hi Folks,
Marjery Lunn was my gggg grand aunt as her brother Frederick was my gggg grandfather. It would be great to exchange reports as we will have plenty to share.
Regards,
Anne Marie.
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Hi Anne Marie I would love to hear any info you have on the Lunns ect .If i can help in anyway let me know Cheers Nigel
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Hi Nigel,
Thanks for your message. We should have a lot of different info. to exchange i.e. I will PM you with my email.
A quick run through though from my 1st Lunn relative.
My ggrandmother Jane Ann Donohoe (several variants) was daughter of Elizabeth Lunn & James Donohoe.
I will give you the direct Lunn's without the wives for now just to give you the picture.
Elizabeth 1853 (gg g/mother)
Frederick 1830 (ggg g/father)
Frederick c1794(gggg g/father)
John c1764 (ggggg g/father)
Regards,
Anne Marie.
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Hi all with an interest in the Lunn family of Newcastle c1812 onwards or backwards and Edward Savage and his wife Ann.
My main focus of interest is my maternal line where it crosses with yours with, Margery Lunn who married William Hay and Mary Lunn nee Robson who was married to John Lunn, tailor of Harbottle. I have become quiet interested in how and why the family, once their father John Lunn died, all seemed to move to Newcastle. I am currently putting together all the bits of information I have from different sources and you may be interested in a thread about Ridley Villas which I posted and have had a lot of useful and helpful information. Both John and James Lunn lived in this row of houses which No 1/2 is still in Newcastle, Mary Lunn their mother died there. Frederick Lunn was running a pub called the Phoenix inn in Spicer Lane, opening on to the Quayside in 1827, which his brother John was ran in 1822, I believe the pub changed its name later to the Burns Tavern, and unfortunately is part of the foundations of the law courts now. I will have the opportunity to visit Newcastle within the 2/3 weeks and do some research in the library. I have recently received some documentation from the Northumberland archive's at Woodhorn about property that was owned by James Lunn in Harbottle and it helped me identify their mother’s maiden name as definitely Robson and gave a name to their mothers sister as well. I have lots of little bits of information about the Lunn family once they all got to Newcastle which may be of interest if you have not already got them. I am interested to find out where Frederick and John Lunn were buried, its on my 'to find list' when I visit Newcastle. Is there any thing specific you are stuck with that I might be able to help?
Carol
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Hi - your:
Frederick c1794(gggg g/father)
Is my ggg g/father!
Frederick c1794 (ggg g/father)
John Ramsey Lunn c1818/19 (gg g/father)
James Lunn 1859 (g g/father)
GO Lunn 1923 (g/father)
...
Dave.
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Hi Dave,
It will be interesting to exchange info as I don't think I have any ifnfo. on that branch at all ?
This will make you my 4th cousin with 1 remove.
It's always exciting when you get a new contact whether from a line you have info. on or not.
I think you need 3 posts before we can PM
A M
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I will have to post some more detail later then ! :)
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So a bit more detail - we have:
Frederick Lunn 4/5/1794 = Elizabeth Harrison (m. 5/2/1816 St. Andrew's, Newcastle)
- John Ramsey 14/5/1820
- Elizabeth 3/4/1822
- Margaret Robson 19/9/1825
- Frederick 23/5/1830
- Ann 22/5/1837
(all christening dates)
John Ramsey Lunn = Jane Hindmarch (m. 23/6/1844 Heworth Parish Church, Gateshead)
- 12 children including:
- John Thomas 6/12/1857 (Shipowner)
- James Lunn 3/10/1859 (Builder and contractor)
- Sir George Lunn 26/11/1861 (Shipowner and merchant)
James Lunn = Mary Ann Oliver (m. 15/11/1880 St Mary's, Heworth, Gateshead)
- Ada (1881)
- Barbara Annie (1883)
- James Percy (1889)
- Nora (1891)
- George Oliver (1893)
- Thomas Oliver (1896)
- Elsie (1898)
- Margaret (1901)
George Oliver is my grandfather.
John Ramsey's family was quite interesting and did quite well in the Newcastle area - one of them was involved in the early stages of Newcastle United football club!
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http://i3.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article6162511.ece/alternates/s615/great-fire-2.jpg
Hi found a pic of Hays Bakers after the 1854 fire you can see a loaf of bread shop sign hanging outside and this from pigots and co http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=hdMHAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA599&lpg=PA599&dq=HAYS+BAKERS+pilgrim+st+newcastle&source=bl&ots=J46FE_YyOj&sig=-hRp21JHcnb_7AqkrY-JY5tHmLM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=xiiHU_mNCM7M0AXN3YCICg&ved=0CEEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=HAYS%20BAKERS%20pilgrim%20st%20newcastle&f=false
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welcome dlunn
I am finally going to have a day at the Northumberland Archives at Woodhorn, to see if I can get more information on the Lunn family in Harbottle. If I can be of help in your research just ask, Frederick Lunn interests me as he seems to be the first to work at the pub in Spicer lane, Newcastle, but how did he get to that stage... the family all seem to have left Harbottle after the death of their father John in 1803. Also do you know where Frederick is buried and his brother John? I'll be staying in Newcastle so might be able to find find and photo the grave.
Carol
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Hi Carol - well it would be interesting to see a transcript of the 1762 militia list for Harbottle. There were 9 able bodied men listed there I believe - was a Lunn one of them? Since John was born in Harbottle 2 years later, that might give us a father.
According to the information I have received from Mike Bertram, John and Mary's son John was the first listed in the Phoenix in Pigot and Co. directory 1822, unless you have something earlier? John was buried 7/11/1852 in Newcastle General Cemetery (again from Mike's information, provided to him by John Lochen I believe.) I don't have anything on Frederick's burial at the moment...
Dave.
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Hi Dave
The Militia list is second on my list of documents to see at the archives, I am very interested in the records kept by the Harbottle Presbyterian Church at the time. It was not just like a parish record but my research suggests it has family names, social conditions, occupations etc included for those families not adhering to the Church of England faith. I will be looking for Lunn references but also Robson as John Lunn married a Mary Robson who's father was a William Robson, I have the evidence for this from documents from the Archive. Newcastle General Cemetery is now called Jesmond Old Cemetery and appears convenient for the hotel I will be staying in on my visit.
Will let you now if I find anything or not
Carol
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Hi Dave
Just to let you know what I found out at the Northumberland Archives, disappointingly nothing in the documents I had time to go through but at least that means there is no more references in these available sources to research. The 1762 militia list for Harbottle had no mention of a Lunn the whole list was on a PDF file accessible on one of their computers so was quick and easy to go through. I checked for the whole of West Coquetdale and found no reference to a Lunn. There was a reference to a William Robson of Allonton later Alwinton, merchant who is possible John Lunn's wife, Mary Robson's father. When I inquired if there was anything later it appears there are two more sources, not digitized a 1797 - 1823 muster roll and a 1798 Coquetdale volunteers, both are lengthy reads so I was unable to look at them this visit. The document I hoped to read through was very difficult and the pages I had time to look at had no references to either the Lunns or Robsons, however I only managed earlier records so it is another document to go back to, the writing was difficult and many pages had been written on in one direction then turned sideways and written on again to save paper!
if you are interested in John Lunn's wife Mary Robson I checked her and her siblings birth registration for any clues and only got that they had lived at Alwinton before Harbottle and lived at a place called Whitton in the area but William Robson was originally from Elsdon Parish - no reference to the name of a mother.
With reference to John Lunn he was buried in 1854 in Jesmond Old Cemetery, Ward 17 Section 62 Grave 45, Newcastle upon Tyne, the cemetery is very large and closed in the evening so I cold not go wandering to find the grave.
I did have better luck with another brick wall ancestor not on your line, so my visit was not all disappointing. I do not live in the northeast so it might be a while before I have chance to do anymore research but it was a lovely place to visit and the nearby coast meant I finished my day with a paddle in the sea.
bye for now
Carol
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Thanks for checking Carol - shame it didn't turn anything up.
I'm interested to hear about William Robson. The Robson name comes up a lot in the next generation or two and it's particularly interesting that at all three marriages in St Andrew's in 1815/16 of James, Frederick and Mary Lunn, the register shows 'in the presence of' William Robson. Perhaps when they all went down to Newcastle, her father went as well?
Can you tell me what record from the archives you found to show that Mary's surname is Robson and her father is named William?
Dave.
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Hi Dave
The evidence I have for Mary Lunn nee Robson is as follows, (apart from a succession of middle names in the next two generations being Robson) I did a search of all Lunn / Harbottle related documents on the Northumberland Archives online. It had three relating to a property in Harbottle owned by the late James Lunn which I sent for copies. One is a very detailed description of the property and where it was in Harbottle, it seems to be a document dealing with the winding up of James Lunns affairs in 1850 after his death in 1949.The second was a description of the cottage with a sketch of the floor plan its ash privy and coal house. The third was the bonus, again a description of the house of the late former tenant James Lunn and its value £10.00, the cottage by 1850 was in a poor condition, towards the end of the document it relates previous occupants, "Robert Davison deceased, afterwards enjoyed by Marjory his widow, and now or late occupied by Mary Lunn, sister of the said Marjory to hold from AD 1827 at will. A Marjory Robson married Robert |Davison in Alwinton in 1779, hence Mary being Marjory's sister must also be Robson. Marjory Davison died in 1826 so her sister moved into her cottage but looks like Mary Lunn son James was paying the rent. Using the two sisters dates of birth there was a candidate family in the next village of Alwinton, father William Robson with a son also called William, who I suspect is the family witness to the three marriages as William senior died in 1808 and two other sons James and Edward,not the most direct evidence but going that far back it might be all there is available.
If you want Mary Lunn's signature or mark ' X' you can find a marriage licence for her daughter Mary Lunn to Adam Sheills on line in the FamilySearch site.
I need to correct my last post I said that William Robson was from Whotton, this is incorrect it is Whitlees in the Elsdon Parish.
As my interest is in the maternal line, my next step is to find a name for William Robsons wife, Mary Lunn's mother and the evidence to prove it, there was a Margaret Robson wife of a William Robson who died in Harbottle, buried in Alwinton in 1798 but I need more evidence..but that's the fun bit!
if i can be of any help just ask. Bye for now
Carol
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Your correspondence has inspired me to resuscitate my dormant work on the Lunn family. I have been trying for many years to extend the Lunn family back from John (1764 - 1803). There are plenty of Lunn records the other side of the border but John Locher and I could never find a connection.
The questions that have concerned me are: why did the family all move to Newcastle after John's death (mentioned in an earlier post)? Was there some family link in Newcastle? And: the occupation of tailor seems an unlikely one for a place like Harbottle. Were there really enough people around 1800 with the spare cash to employ a tailor in the area? Hearing that James Lunn (not the oldest brother) owned property in Harbottle just adds to my confusion about the family finances.
Another issue that David raised has concerned me for many years. That is the marriage of John Lunn and Mary Robson. I have the marriage as taking place in Harbottle on April 20th 1787 (note that their son John was born on April 11th!). I got this information from my father's genealogy records but without any reference. I have unsuccessfully looked through his notebooks to see if I could work out where he obtained the information.
Mike Bertram
PS my Lunn connection is that my grandmother was Ada Bertram (nee Lunn).
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Hi Mike
Harbottle and the next village Alwinton were much busier places around 1800, with the passing cattle trade. I am attaching a photo I took when I visited these two villages a couple of years ago which will explain the situation is 1800. The Lunn brothers seem to have made their money first with the public house trade, the Phoenix in Spicer Lane then as Shipping agents, I have access to the digitized Newcastle Newspapers where there are numerous mention of the Lunn family, their lives and work in Newcastle but why Newcastle and was anybody helping them I have not found out. As to the marriage of John Lunn and Mary Robson, it is a shame your father's records do not have a source, its likely they went over the boarder and when I once tried to cross reference possible parishes and where there records might be I realized there are a lot of border records that have not been indexed or digitized but are waiting for someone to wade through in Edinburgh record office.
Just found something of interest from my newspaper downloads, from the Newcastle Courant 1890, A piece on the Old Coquetdale Volunteers concerning the threat of french invasion:
'Many of the country squires had their servants told of each to certain posts in event of an invasion. For instance, Squire Clennell of Harbottle had men set apart to drive the wives and bairns of his dependents to the hills in carts; others to drive the cattle; whilst others were armed in a promiscus manner with guns, pistols and swords, to act as escort. Once a week these men were paraded on the lawn in front of Harbottle castle when the squire called over their names and each man had to detail his duty. The name of one man has been handed down to us, which shows how the drill was conducted. When the Squire called out "John Lunn", the answer was "Sword and Gunn" ' - it is a long piece in the paper but no date is given for this instance but some research on Squire Clennell might give a date.
Bye for now Carol
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Thanks, Carol. I certainly misunderstood how busy Harbottle was in the past. I have published the information I have collected on the Lunns on my web site at www.the2nomads.org. We leave in a couple of days on a holiday. When I return home I will update the family tree with the information that you and David have provided. Could you provide me with your surname? My email is the2nomads@centurylink.net.
Regards, Mike
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I have updated my family tree database with information that Carol and Dave Lunn have provided. The Lunn family tree is published on my web site the2nomads.org. - Mike
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Researching the Lunns on my wife side, found this to be of interest (but a few errors
http://the2nomads.org/Genealogy/Lunns.html
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Database updated today with rockpebblar's information
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Hi Folks,
Just wondering if an update on the family of Elizabeth Lunn 1853 - 1897 dau of Frederick Lunn 1830 - 1895 & Jane Kemp 1832 - 1918 is required?
Elizabeth Lunn 1853 - 1897 is my 2 x g g/mother
Annie
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Annie - what information do you think should be added? - Mike