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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Lancashire => Topic started by: tillyann on Tuesday 24 August 10 14:02 BST (UK)
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Hi All,
I have searched far and wide on this one and could do with some help please. I am looking for information on Edmund Whit(t)aker and his wife? :-\Margaret Donough. edmund was born abt 1798 to James and Ann Whit(t)aker nee Lord in Newchurch -Bacup area. Edmund joined the military and it looks like he hooked up with Margaret in Dublin - most of their kids were born in Ireland. I can only find one birth record and the only evidence that Margaret's maiden name was Donough. A search for the only other child born in the UK has proved fruitless in spite of the best efforts of the guys in the lancashire records office. According to Edmund's military record he was quite ill when he left the army and I can trace he and Margaret until the 1851 census but after that I loose them. Because freebdm doesn't have ages at death for the records I can find for all Edmund Whit(t)akers who died in Haslingden or surrounds I'm still hunting around in the dark with this. It looks like Edmund & Margaret's son Edmund married in either Oldham in either 1854 or 1860 so they may have all moved there.
If anyone has come across this family or can give me some advice on where else I might look that would be great.
Cheers
Tilly Ann :)
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Hi
Is this Edmund junior
1861 RG09 3017/ 5/ 3
Hondurus st Oldham
Edmund Whittaker b 1835 journeyman tailor b Ireland
catherine Whittaker wife b 1838 Tailoress b Ireland
Edmund Whittaker=m= Catherine Murphy 4th qtr 1860 vol 8d page 1033
this is a good match for age and occupation
I know you are trying to find his father ? died or not but if all else fails you could get marriage certificate it may say father deseased you would know for sure that he has died between 1851 and 1860.
I also found James and John together
1861 census Rg09 3062/125/12
Not sure if this is of any help
cheers cardiff ???
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Tilly Ann - have you tried matching deaths of FreeBMD with those on LancashireBMD? I did a quick check on Edmund Whit(t)aker deaths in the 1850s & all had ages at death on the latter site. It isn't complete, but may enable you to eliminate some of the "possibles" thrown up by FreeBMD.
http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/
LancsOPC site is growing fast so worth re-checking regularly, even if you've drawn a blank before:
http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/
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Thankyou so much for the replies.
I have a copy of edmund & catherine's marriage certificate and it does have a line next to Edmund Senior's name so it appears he had died by 1860. His military record certainly indicates that he was very ill when he was discharged from the army about 8 years earlier.
I am confused about where Edmund senior died which does complicate things but I'm pretty confident that I am looking at an 8 year timeframe.
I was interested in knowing about John & James being on the 1861 census together. This I haven't seen. John Munn was very close to his brother Edmund and later census data reflects this. Either Margaret remarried and that is why i can't find her or she died too.
I will keep investigating the websites suggested and perhaps something will turn up.
My very best wishes
Tilly Ann ;)
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I also found James and John together
1861 census Rg09 3062/125/12
Not sure if this is of any help
cheers cardiff ???
Hi cardiff,
The only James and John that I can see at that reference are a father and son. :-\ Is that the right reference?
cheers
heywood
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Hi
mmm... I see what you mean maybe I got it wrong. I have not kept info already shredded.
Sorry guys :P
cheers cardiff ???
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Perhaps you just saw the two names in the index and thought :) as we do!
I am searching like mad for the other members of the family with little success.
Tilly Ann says that Edmund and John Munn are close to each other as later censuses show- can't find that either!
John Munn Whittaker joins up so perhaps he is already on his way in 1861 but young James should be somewhere.
I am looking for others to try to see if Margaret survives/remarries - but nothing very obvious.
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Were the family in Bacup in 1841?
and if so what was the occupation of Edmund at that time
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I have found a family in Bacup in 1841 with the children
James (16)
Margaret Ann (9)
Edmund (6)
Elizabeth (2)
All born Ireland except for Edmund Senior.
A Baptism took place at Tunstead in 1844 of John Munn Whittaker on the 22nd September child of Edmund Whittaker & Margaret. Edmunds Occupation was given as Tailor.
The place of abode was listed as Nunn Mills
On the 20th April 1847 a James Whitaker on Nunn Mills was buried at Newchurch Parish Church aged 21 - no relatives given.
In the Blackburn Standard Newspaper for October 1852 there is a death notice for Edmund Whitaker aged 53 but that states (Surgeon) afterwards.
The burials for Newchurch are not on line but I would check if there is a burial there at that date and see if that gives anymore information on address etc.
I can't find any other Edmund Whitaker (Surgeon) in the Bacup/Newchurch area at that time. I will also try and find out what dates the newspapers in the area started which are not on line and see if there are any obits in those.
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Hi Heywood, Cardiff and Hassy Girl,
Firstly, you are 100% correct about the family. Edmund Senior was a tailor who joined the military in 1813 aged 15. I have no idea of where he served his apprenticeship unfortunately.
James was the eldest son but he died (I have no idea what from) and then Edmund and Margaret's youngest child was also called James. I have John Munn's birth certifcate but the Lancs registry office have confirmed they cannot find a record of James's birth. I can't trace this James at all. Edmund and John Munn I have had great success except JM's burial place with but I haven't tried to trace the girls.
Love your work guys :) Don't you just love a good mystery ;D
Tilly Ann
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TAKEN FROM THE BRITISH ARMY SERVICE RECORDS
edmund whittaker corporal born in the parish of rossendale lancaster by trade a tailor attested for the 23rd regiment of the foot at manchester in the county of lancaster on the 5th sept 1813 at the age of 16.he was a private from 5th sept 1813 untill 31st july 1837 then he was a corporal until 12th june 1839.total service up till the 21st june 1839 23yrs 271 days of which 1yr 316 days were as a corporal ,served 1 yr in th enetherlands the remainder at home.looks like ur man was invalided out.says suffered from rhumatic fever for more than 13yrs for which he attributed to an attack of fever in dublin .under in what respect does it disqualify him from military sevice it has writen his inability to bear millitary appointments or fatigue from dypsheria.normal trade is listed as tailor.more or less what they are saying is his leaving the aarmy was medical and nothing to do with his conduct as that was good.
there are 11 pages of records for him on find my past
regards
alli
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john munn whittaker joined 24th april 1863 aged 19yrs joining the 106th foot his occupation is listed as clerk.promoted to corporal in 1866 for good conduct only to be demoted back to private in 1868.promoted back to corporal in 1870 and promoted again to seargent in 1871.promoted to colour sergant in 1873.promoted again to warrent officer and discharged in 93 .looks like he carried on the john munn name with son born 1886.married twice.cant find him in 61 shame
regards
alli
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Hi Alli,
Edmund Whittaker (John Munn's brother and my descendant) is the only member of the family I can find in 1861. He is married to Catharine Murphy and they are living in Hondoras St Oldham, Lancs at the time. I am confident Edmund Senior is deceased by now. If Maraget remarried and changed her name then that could explain why we can't find them.
John Munn as a name interests me greatly. The Whit(t)akers and the Munns were prevalent in the Rossendale area. JM does name is son John Munn but so does Edmund his brother and Edmund's son Edmund John also has a John Munn but I can't find a reliable connection to the Munn family. I have so far only been able to go as far back as James Whi(t)taker and Ann Lord.
Regards
Tilly Ann
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I had seen this entry for 1861 but discounted it but the news that John was a clerk could be a clue
It might be worth checking out the address he lived at when he signed up in 1863 to see if there is a match.
Living in Hulme
with the Cogan Family (May be Logan)
John Whitaker Visitor Clerk in Merchant Office and also Brother James aged 15 but states born Manchester.
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Hi again,
I do know that the family must have had some prior link with Manchester as James and Ann Whittaker had Edmund (John Munn, Edmund and James's dad) and Prudence who I know died in Manchester but cannot account for why they were there. Whilst James was christened in Tunstead like his brother John Munn I have not found evidence that he was born in the area.
John Munn was a clerk on entering the army and went back to this occupation for a time after finishing in the army. He eventually became a marine store dealer in S-O-T.
James was christened in 1848 but that does not necessarily mean it was his birth year so the age could be right.
It is possible that James was living with one of his sisters (Margaret Ann and Elizabeth).
Cheers
Tilly Ann
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who I know died in Manchester but cannot account for why they were there
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Lots of Whittakers in the Manchester area - including my husband's family - so maybe they had moved to be near their relatives.
Lizzie
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Hi, I am John Munn's great grandaughter. My grandmother and great uncle Edmund were both born in India, whilst John Munn was serving there from 1871 to 1876. My grandmother was Margaret Ann Whittaker and was training to be a nurse in the late 1880s in Ashton under Lyne, Lancashire. She then disappears for several years turning up on the 1901 census living in Preston with 3 children. The third child is Wilfred Kendrick but I cannot trace any details of a marriage to Kendrick. I believe that John Munn's mother was Mary Ann Pearson and that he remarried Mary Ann Caton after the death of his first wife. John Munn jnr was a result of this second marriage and emigrated to Australia? Can you help?
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There is a marriage in Preston in 1901 between Margaret Whittaker and Thomas Kendrick. (September quarter)
And a death for a thomas kendrick aged 44 in 1907 in Preston
but the birth for Wilfred Kendrick was not registered until 1910.
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Many thanks for this -looks promising. :)
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Hi,
This is very exciting news. When I started this thread I had come to a real road block so I have left it for a good few months to try and see it with fresh eyes.
I am from Edmund's lineage - John Munn Senior's brother.
My line goes Edmund Whitaker and Margaret - Edmund ( & John Munn and the other siblings) -Edmund has a son Edmund John - who has a daughter Katherine (Kitty) and a huge family - Katherine has a daughter (and has another big family) including my grandmother Mary Agnes - Mary Agnes has my mother Elsie and her sister Hilda and then there is me and my siblings.
I traced my family tree through John Munn and I think I have a photocopy of a photo of him and Mary Ann P but have never been able to confirm it.
To the best of my knowledge and research John Munn never had any children to Mary Ann Caton and he adored his first wife Mary Ann Pearson. I believe Edmund and John Munn were very close.
If you haven't been to visit this grave go to Dukinfield Cemetery C3(ASH)11. The inscription reads:
Mary Ann the beloved wife of Seagt. Major JM Whittaker who died July 13 1889 aged 30 years ALSO Ada their daughter who died May 25 1884 aged 2 years and 4 months ALSO Edmund Whittaker passed away 27th Dec 1892 aged 60 years ALSO is son Edmund John Whittaker passed away 3rd Nov 1947 Aged 84 years R.I.P ALSO Louisa dearly loved wife of the above who died March 2nd 1952 aged 79 years.
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In answer to your questions - John Munn Jnr he went to New Zealand not Australia.
I have Mary Ann Whittaker on the 1891 census but haven't really followed her further.
Remember that John Munn Snr was 50 when he married Mary Ann Mark II and she was 47 so any issue was unlikely.
Maude was a majolica paintress by profession and I would love to know how long she lived? Very high lead exposure in that job.
If you can answer this where is John Munn Senior buried. I have traced his life from birth to where he died but I don't know his resting place. Can you help?
Did you know Minnie Fletcher and/or her son Harold?
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I started this thread a number of years ago. I was never able to discover what happened to Edmund and Margaret after the 1851 Census. I know Edmund was in the 25th Regiment of Foot. Kings Own Guard Scottish Borders and was a career soldier until 1839. He was also a Chelsea Pensioner. I have located his CP record on Ancestry which leads me to Fold3. Is anyone able to look this up for me please as I use the library subscription.
He is listed under Edmd Whittakers Roscadale, Lancaster. Age 41 born 1798.
I can't find his death or what happened to Margaret and her 2 girls and youngest son James.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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Hello,
Just in case you didn’t find James’ birth, GRO now has births with mother’s name.
James Whittaker 1848 June quarter, Haslingden vol 21 pg 542 mmn Donohoe.
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I started this thread a number of years ago. I was never able to discover what happened to Edmund and Margaret after the 1851 Census. I know Edmund was in the 25th Regiment of Foot. Kings Own Guard Scottish Borders and was a career soldier until 1839. He was also a Chelsea Pensioner. I have located his CP record on Ancestry which leads me to Fold3. Is anyone able to look this up for me please as I use the library subscription.
He is listed under Edmd Whittakers Roscadale, Lancaster. Age 41 born 1798.
I can't find his death or what happened to Margaret and her 2 girls and youngest son James.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Allibaker’s reply #10 gives information from his Military record. What are you hoping to find?
It is available, as explained in that post that it is on FindMyPast.
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Hi. I'm hoping to find any reference to his death and last place of residence. His Military Record gave me some leads but not enough to track him down to his final details.
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I started this thread a number of years ago. I was never able to discover what happened to Edmund and Margaret after the 1851 Census. I know Edmund was in the 25th Regiment of Foot. Kings Own Guard Scottish Borders and was a career soldier until 1839. He was also a Chelsea Pensioner. I have located his CP record on Ancestry which leads me to Fold3. Is anyone able to look this up for me please as I use the library subscription.
He is listed under Edmd Whittakers Roscadale, Lancaster. Age 41 born 1798.
I can't find his death or what happened to Margaret and her 2 girls and youngest son James.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
I have access to Fold3 but I think his is one of the records not transcribed yet as whatever spelling I use I can't find it
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Things have moved on - see the other thread https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=810753