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Ireland (Historical Counties) => Ireland => Tipperary => Topic started by: VDLstories on Thursday 26 August 10 17:02 BST (UK)
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Hello
I am currently in Ireland from Australia [Aug-Sept 2010] seeking places where ancestors came from, hoping to visit local spots. It would certainly be fantastic to meet any distant relatives also on this journey.
In Tipperary I come from a Jane Nicholson, b.1833. I am not sure if any of this Nicholson family remain today in Ireland, or who went with Jane to Scotland, where she married in 1852 aged 19.
Details below, many thanks for any advice/suggestion to assist me to find out more.
Julie
Jane Frances NICHOLSON BORN Tipperary, TIPPERARY C1833
I don’t know when she went to Scotland, but Jane married Robert Cuthbert HANSON on 4 Apr 1852 in Dunblane, Perthshire, Scotland. Jane married ROBERT CUTHBERT HANSON
B. 4/4/1832 PERTH SCOTLAND ]
They both then emigrated on the ship: Flora Mc Donald 1852 to Melbourne Australia.
Jane died on 29 Jan 1897 AGED 64 in Waratah Tasmania Australia.
The cause of death was peritonitis. She was buried in Latrobe, Tasmania, Australia.
Jane and Robert had nine children. Their second, Mary Hanson, is my gg grandmother.
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To start to trace families before the start of Full Civil Registration (in 1864) you need to know the family religion, and the location they lived in - i.e. townland, town or parish.
There some Nicholson entries listed on Griffith's valuation (a land tax survey showing heads of households) carried out a around the time your Nicholson family left - the locations of which might be worth following up if some family members remained behind.
Nicholson - Tipperary South Riding (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=48&Submit.y=15&Submit=Submit&familyname=NICHOLSON&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=TIPPERARY%2C+SOUTH+RIDING&unionname=&parishname=)
Nicholson - Tipperary North Riding (http://www.askaboutireland.ie/griffith-valuation/index.xml?action=doNameSearch&Submit.x=35&Submit.y=10&Submit=Submit&familyname=NICHOLSON&firstname=&baronyname=&countyname=TIPPERARY%2C+NORTH+RIDING&unionname=&parishname=)
Shane
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hi Shane
That was great - many thanks - I hadn't looked at the Griffiths valuation on that Ask About Ireland site before. I am learning the ropes.
These people could be family, hard to say.
I have downloaded the marriage in 1852 in Dunblane - full info is :
4 April 1852
Marriages
Old Parish Registers
348/0040 0258
Dunblane
Robert Hanson & Jane-Francis Nicholson, both of this Parish – two Sundays & married by [blank]
[Scotland’s people]
[not much].
Doesn't this O.P.R. marriage on Scotland's People indicate a protestant marriage?
On another matter - I see on your list of names: HODGES [Bristol]
I come from a Hodges from Bristol - and want to start researching that family line or where to look for more information.
It is gg grandfather James Hodges, born c1844, Bristol to this couple:
Charlotte HANNAY OR HANNIE born in 1818 in England?, died on 30 Oct 1906 in
Daylesford, Victoria, Australia at age 88, buried in Daylesford Cemetery.
Charlotte married James HODGES on 17 Jun 1839 in Trevethin, Wales.
James Hodges was born in 1817 in Bristol, England, died on 6 May 1895 in Daylesford Victoria at age 78, buried in May 1895 in Daylesford Cemetery, Victoria, Australia.
James Hodges Jnr [b. c.1844 Bristol] married Mary Ann Hanson [born 25 Sep 1854 Ashby, West Geelong, Victoria, Australia] she was a daughter of Jane-Frances [nee Nicholson of Tipperary] and Robert Hanson - from this Tipperary list query above !
Do you have any ideas on how to find these Hodges in Bristol, and Hannays? Are you on a Bristol list I should move this line of enquiry to?
Julie
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I'm not very familiar with older Scottish records, but I think you may be correct about the OPR being Church of Scotland. I think any RC records are separate.
I dont have much to follow up on my Hodges line in Bristol at the moment, other than my gtgtgt-grandfather Samuel Hodges was born there in 1804, and that his father John was a glassmaker. Samuel was a coastguard, and spent most of his adult life in Ireland. I have a post about him on somewhere on the Gloucestershire board.
I think Hodges is a quite common surname in Bristol and the surrounding counties.
Shane
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hi again Shane
AOK, will pursue Hodges / Bristol, along with the other ancestors, and see how I go, step by step! I wonder why ther are a lotin Bristol, maybe from a particular trade by name or something.
Scotland's people is so user friendly. I haven't started tackling English records.
Irish ancestry seems [at present to me to be] very difficult to trace from those leaving pre 1840s.
thanks for your advice, all the best
Julie
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might help getting you getting started with your search for details in Ireland : Introduction to Irish Records (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,442233.0.html)
Shane
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........
Jane Frances NICHOLSON BORN Tipperary, TIPPERARY C1833
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The Irish Family History Foundation pay-website at www.rootsireland.ie has some parish records for Co. Tipperary, but they only seem to to have Church of Ireland records available for the North Riding section of the County, so there's no way to check the other section of the county online at the moment. (see parishes included: http://www.irish-roots.ie/tipperary-north.asp)
I had a quick look at the index and there is a Jane Nicholson baptism listed in 1834.. but you would need to pay for the record to see if the details fit. As far as I can see the baptism is recorded in the Church of Ireland Parish of Roscrea.
Most Church of Ireland records include date of baptism, place of residence, father's full name, mother's first name, and possibly father's occupation.
p.s. does Jane's death cert include any details on her parents ?
Shane
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Thanks Shane
That could well be her - the 1834 Roscrea baptism. Thanks very much. If it is not very pricey I might risk getting this baptism certificate anyhow. Not sure how to get it as yet.
I have now emailed the person in Australia with the most on the Nicholson/Hanson lineage, and hope that Jane's death certificate shed's more light re: parent's names. I don't have a copy of it.
I am thinking that Jane and Robert's children's naming likely reflects their grandparents and great grandparents names - below this.
thanks again, this is heading somewhere - to information - I feel certain!
Julie
Robert Cuthbert Hanson and Jane Frances Hanson (Nicholson) had the following children:
F i Elizabeth HANSON was born in 1853 in Portland,Victoria. She died in 1854 in Victoria.
F ii Mary Ann HANSON b 25/9/1854 Geelong m. 4/6/1870 Geelong d.15?/5/1910 Coburg
M iii Robert Francis HANSON was born in 1857 in Colac,Victoria. He died in 1906 in Gordon,Victoria. He was buried in Daylesford,Victoria. He married Agnes Jane GRAHAM in 1876 in Victoria.
M iv William Nicholson HANSON born in 1858 in Mt Gellibrand,Victoria. He married Alice Jane RADFORD-STONE on 9 Nov 1883 in Burnie,Tasmania
M v Thomas HANSON in 1860 in Steiglitz,Victoria. He died after 1905. He married Ellen RICHARDS on 21 Dec 1881 in Waratah Tasmania Australia.
F vi Annie HANSON was born in 1862 in Steiglitz,Victoria. She married George Alfred ALEXANDER on 27 Apr 1880 in Waratah Tasmania Australia.
M vii Samuel HANSON was born in 1865 in Morrisons,Nr Ballarat,Victoria. He died in 1865 in Victoria
M viii George HANSON born in 1866 in Durham Lead,Nr Ballarat,Victoria. He died in 1953 in Footscray,Victoria. He married Elizabeth HOLLAND in 1886 in Geelong,Victoria.
M ix Edwin Murray HANSON was born in 1868 in Durham Lead,Nr Ballarat,Victoria. He died in Lidcombe,New South Wales. He married Sarah ALFORD in Waratah Tasmania
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I re-tried the baptism search using the various names you mentioned as father - for the
Roscrea 1834 baptism is Thomas.
Shane
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not sure what's going on with the search... the baptism is now showing up in the CofI parish of Aglishcloghane. Not sure where that's located yet..
EDIT one of the North Tipp. Griffith's entries is for the same parish - so this would seem to tie in with that.
Shane
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Hi - thanks
'Thomas' could be a clue - one of their children IS named Thomas, but it is also the name of Robert Hanson's father....
How does one get a copy of a Church of Ireland baptism certificate? I need to read that Irish genie info website.
Julie
re: NAMES
I do have the HANSON family back a little in Scotland:
HANSON names:
James Mcintosh + unknown had Elizabeth Mcintosh
Elizabeth + Alexander Cuthbert had Mary Cuthbert
Mary Cuthbert + Thomas Hanson had Robert Hanson
Robert Hanson+Jane Frances Nicholson had…
Thomas kind of fits - re: order of naming I think:
Elizabeth [child 1] - name of Robert's grandmother [perhaps name of Jane's ??]
Mary Ann [child 2] - name of Robert's mother [perhaps name of Jane's ??]
Robert Francis [child 3] - Robert's name [perhaps name of Jane's ?? ]
William Nicholson [child 4] - ?? perhaps name of Robert's mother's father?/ perhaps name of Jane's ??
Thomas [child 5] - name of Robert's father [perhaps name of Jane's father??]
Annie [child 6] ??
Samuel [child 7] ??
George [child 8] ??
Edwin Murray [child 9] ?? - is 'MURRAY' in the Nicholson's lineage?
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'Thomas' could be a clue - one of their children IS named Thomas, but it is also the name of Robert Hanson's father....
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How does one get a copy of a Church of Ireland baptism certificate? I need to read that Irish genie info website.
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There are no certificates for record this early , they are only available for civil records. The IFHF website I mentioned earlier has transcripts for these CofI records for part of Co. Tipperary. Cross you fingers that there are no Jane Nicholsons born in south Tipperary or in a parish where records have not survived.
Naming system were sometimes followed, but not always strictly..
Shane
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Hi
Ah - ok, thanks.
Will look at IFHF again and to understand this baptism record and where it is and if it is actually 'the' Jane I need.
And I will check how the other family lines are looking. At least each strategy learnt working on one family line, assists in improving also the search techniques and outcomes for the others. So many ancestors, so few clues!
Julie
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The townland mentioned on the Griffith's record is Gortnagrann, Civil parish of Aglishcloghane (these are usually the same as Church of Ireland parishes).
The townland is located about 6km north of the town of Borrisokane on the road to Portumna (Co. Galway) - see google map (http://www.google.ie/maps?f=d&source=s_d&saddr=Borrisokane,+Co.+North+Tipperary&daddr=GORTNAGRANN&hl=en&geocode=FUWhKAMd3_qD_ykD29oOw4xcSDEVZ1SNZ6o03w%3BFYdjKQMdTtiD_yltV-mbSItcSDHS9iy7p8cAJg&mra=prev&sll=53.036259,-8.129539&sspn=0.100538,0.230713&ie=UTF8&z=12)
Shane
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hi Shane
I got the record, now I understand how IFHF works [I want shares in that company!]
I think it IS my Jane Frances Nicholson, because the mother's name is FRANCES.
what do you think?
here it is:
CHURCH BAPTISM RECORD
Jane Nicholson
Date of Baptism/Birth 26 Jan 1834
Address: Milford
Parish/District: AGLISHCLOGHANE
County: Co Tipperary
Denomination: Church of Ireland
Father: Thomas Nicholson
Mother: Frances not recorded
Occupation: Farmer
Sponsor one/informant one: not recorded
Sponsor two/informant two: not recorded
Notes: Rev. J. Exshaw [curate]
E ** THOS
*Birth date not recorded nr/nr/nr
phew.
So I think I will take a drive up to Milford, AGLISHCLOGHANE.
I wonder if there are any Nicholson's in the region nowadays, maybe unlikely, being Church of Ireland back in 1830s [?].
Thanks very much for your help with this Shane, it is much appreciated
Julie
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hi again
MILFORD the address on the baptism certificate is 2km SE of Gortnagrann
see:
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=+north+tipperary+ireland&sll=38.754083,-95.712891&sspn=29.404684,61.523437&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=County+North+Tipperary,+Ireland&ll=53.031717,-8.116322&spn=0.047074,0.120163&z=13
Julie
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....
I got the record, now I understand how IFHF works [I want shares in that company!]
I think it IS my Jane Frances Nicholson, because the mother's name is FRANCES.
what do you think?
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So I think I will take a drive up to Milford, AGLISHCLOGHANE.
....
certainly a good possible match, based on the clues you have.
hopefully the death cert will confirm one or both of the parents.
have a nice drive around Tipperary - and drive carefully !
Shane
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Hello everyone
Just incase anyone wants to contact me = VDLstories - I am now on
Juliegoughtasmania - gmail.com
I did return last year to where I think is the rubble of the Nicholson home ! - I will go back with more time and speak to more locals
and I recommend DNA tests - ancestry etc - for finding ancestors - very useful !
all the best
JULIE
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Not "hard & fast" but Nicholson in Scotland is a Skye name & Nicolson a Shetland name.
Skoosh.
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Thanks Skoosh
That's fascinating - and useful for the extra mile or generations you can travel back with DNA ancestral matches - I will keep an eye out for those places now
Julie
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Hi, I sent you an email earlier today ,not sure if you received it as I have just noted that your profile says that your email address is no longer valid so I'm posting here as a backup.
Did you ever find Jane's parents? Could this be the family on the 1841 census,living in Dunblane
William 55 born Perth Army Pensioner
Elizabeth 45 born England
Margaret 15 born Ireland
Jean 10 born Ireland
A Margaret Nicholson married a William Gardiner in Dunblane 1850.
Not sure if this will help or just muddy the waters.
Val
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HI everyone
I was on rootschat as VDLstories with a now redundant email - so I am now: TAStasmania.
My known surnames are (*with a lot of Irish and Scottish):
Briggs, Brooks, Burton, Cairns, Causer, Champ, Cooper, Cope, Cox, Cullen, Dobbie, Gough/McGeough, Gower, Hannay, Hanson, Hill, Hodges, Johnson, Keep, Kendle/Kendall, Laird, Lo You/Loyou, Lyons, May, McCallum, McFadyen, McKean, Morris, Mortimer, Nicholson, Reilly, Rennie, Risk, Rivers, Rosevear, Sheridan, Simmons, Storrie, Tobin, Vincent, White, Wise, Young
Julie