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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: McGreevy on Saturday 28 August 10 13:15 BST (UK)
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I am having difficulty tracking down my Chinese Great Grandfather Georg Ah Hoy, or as he was buried simply George Hoy. He cam from NSW and married Anne Christina Newlands
They settled in Charters Towers Queensland . He died in 1922 aged 80.
Can find no record of his marriage. Nor can I find Miss Newlands.
Any assistance would be appreciated.
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www.bdm.nsw.gov.au
Birth
NEWLANDS Ann C
Father: William Mother: Catharine
Reg V1846695 31A/1846
Denomination - Presbyterian
Parish/Circuit/District - Sydney, Scots Church
There is also this marriage in NSW ::)
NEWLANDS Ann C
HOOD George F
598/1867 Sydney
Raylen
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there is this birth which may fit:
V18473356 35/1847
HOOD George F
Father George
Mother Hannah
Leanne
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Hi all,
I've been trying to help McGreevy on couple of other current threads, :D searching for George's wife's details and her forebears.
QLD online BDM search George Hoy's date of death is recorded as 23 Sept 1922, ref 1922/C2845, and as that index notes ** born New South Wales aged 80 years I confirm that I have not found any index on NSWBDM's Early Church Records (ie pre civil registration) to help with that birthdate/place . By his surname it may be unlikely a church baptism was undertaken. (Sept 1922 - 80 giving cira 1841 -1842). There are parts of the 1841 NSW Census extant, and I think the NSW State Archives have digitised them. Perhaps a physical search at the Kingswood Archives Reading Rooms (near Penrith NSW) may find George or his immediate family on that Census. I don't live in Sydney, sorry.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=480307.new;topicseen#new
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,480225.msg3393261.html#msg3393261
Cheers, JM
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On line INDEX at NSW SR there is 20 Oct 1883 naturalisation for HOY Ah, native place of Canton, China. There is a facility to order a copy of the full record.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx I entered "Ah Hoy" in their keyword search.
Also I noticed that in April 1855 on the ship Constitution there was a family with surname HOY migrating to Australia from UK. Among that family were twin boys aged 12, one was named George (born 1842-3). The passenger list is digitised and freely available online at http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/nrs-lists/nrs-5316 None in the family could read. The family had been living in Cams, England before migrating, I haven't followed that up, but perhaps others may, to determine if that family and their forebears were Anglo Saxon.
Cheers, JM
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Thanks
I have had a look at the shipping records and it could be him. Still does not explain his Chinese heritage. I found a record of George Ah Hoy in Charters Towers in one of Eric Rolls books but I have lost the record.
Thanks again for all the help. You have been wonderful helping me piece my family together. :)
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Just doing my bit ;)
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Hi,
Maybe this is your George Hoy
1903 PO Directory George Hoy Pedley St Charters Towers
1913 Electoral Roll George Hoy Miner Natal Downs Rd Division of Kennedy Sub-Division of Charters Towers.
Qld Gazette 1st Mar 1873 Unclaimed Letters George Hoy of Charters Towers also 1st Nov 1873 George Hoy of Rockhampton.
What is interesting is that there was a George Ah Hoy on the 1874 PO Directory under the listings of Carrier/Carter/Drayman of William St Rockhampton.
Regards
Gerry
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Well found Gerry !
I think this may be of interest too
George Ah Hoy, a BAKER at Croydon Qld in 1888 Brisbane Post Office Directory and Country Guide - Croydon thats a goldfields town in the then police district of Burke .... probably around 150 miles south-east of Karumba on the Gulf of Carpentaria ... long way from Sydney to there especially in the 19thC...
Perhaps Queensland Family History Society may have more info for McGreevy, fingers crossed.
http://www.qfhs.org.au/
Cheers, JM
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Browsing the Qld Indexs
I find a birth and death for a LILY HOOD father George Hood mother Ann Christina Newlands after that the surname becomes HOY with George the father and mother Ann/e Christina Newlands
I will not at this point put all the kids names up as McGreevey may very well have them.
I wonder if the Hood was used to "anglicize" the name ???
There was at one point in time a large population of chinese in the Towers during the gold rush although this was around the 1880's and George may have felt more comfortable using his chinese name. just a theory.
death in Q;d
1892/C2145
Name Annie Christina Hoy
father William Newlands - ** born Sydney aged 45 years
Jenn
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I think that the George Ah Hoy at Rockhampton in 1874 is a different George Ah Hoy than our Charters Towers Ah Hoy because there is still an Ah Hoy, Hawker in Rockhampton in the 1900 PO Directory.
There are a number of miners rights issued to the Surname Ah Hoy between 1870 and 1880 but there is one to a Geo Ah Hoy on 20th Nov 1875 for Peak Downs. This ties up with George being a miner later on at Charters Towers.
Nice find on the Ah Hoy being a Baker at Croydon JM, it ties up further with mining.
Regards
Gerry
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Hi
Of course ordering a transcription of the marriage found in NSW
would go a long way towards answering the original query ;D
It would show the parents of both parties and ,as you know who ANN's parents were, you would have your answer as to whether he "anglisized" his name at the wedding, but later reverted to the original.
As there is no death for ANN HOOD with right parents, but clearly a correct death for ANN HOY, it appears a temporary change was the case.
There is also this marriage in NSW
NEWLANDS Ann C
HOOD George F
598/1867 Sydney RAYLEN
Sue
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Thanks Gerry
Yes that is my George Hoy in Pedley street in Charters Towers. His daughter Anne Christina's first child was named Lillian.
George Hoy had his own bakery in his back yard to provide for the family.
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McGreevey,
Pleased to help, I have 3 Great Grand Fathers and 2 Great Grand Mothers buried at Charters Towers plus other past family tree members all were part of the gold era from the 1880s.
From what JM found George also had his bakery at Croydon at some stage.
Gerry
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Hi Gerry
Most of my relatives are buried in the Charters Towers Cemetery. Still trying to get a hold on one elusive great grandfather.
Most of them were involved in gold mining, with one finding "The Prince of Wales "gold nugget.
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Many thanks to all for helping me track down my Great grandfather.
:)
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I have read the thread and may I be so bold as to be a party pooper on this one.
'majm' put forward the possibility the Charters Towers, George Hoy d1922 was from the one from the 1855 'Constitution' from Cambridge England, and I think he maybe. He was my GG Uncle. He has been missing from the records from 1867 (George Hood M date), where he was a baker from Mailtand, NSW (near me), with brothers Alfred and Thomas Hoy (matches his children's names). I stumbled across him in QLD records and tracked him back to the AKA George Hood marriage in Sydney. Then I got his D cert from QLD, which states he's from Maitland, NSW. His brother William was running bad debts and using George's name, so I suspect he used a pseudonym to escape court action. Another of his brother's changed his name too and hid in Sydney, dodging all record keeping - its a family thing:) Although not conclusive, the born in Maitland on his D cert is compelling. I think I'll get the M cert and some children's B certs for more info. getting expensive if I'm wrong.
Please prove me wrong or otherwise. Comments?
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Hi
The Thomas Hoy that married Isabella Coxon must be a relative.
My G G Grandfather is John Linsley brother of Isabella's mother Margaret.
Muss
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Hi Genboy
I cannot say for sure that he was born in Maitland but I have another family member who alludes to this but I will put that aside for now as I have no documentation proving it.
I would very interested in any information you have on the family of George Hoy.
McG
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Thomas Hoy is my GGGrandfather, so we are related: he was a carpenter of Maitland and Lambton.
John Linsley was an upstanding man, and with his brother Wm, were at the forefront with James Fletcher (mayor of Plattsburg) fighting for coal miners rights; which was the beginning of the union movement in Aust. Sister Margaret Coxon (nee Linsley) died while visiting the family at Plattsburg, from Lambton.
George Hoy b1842 Fulbourn, CAM, travelled to Aust 1855, last seen in Maitland 1867.
Brothers William and Alfred were bakers also. Although Alfred later became a shopkeeper in Warialda near Tamworth, and later in life ran off with the maid and changed his name. Alfred was registered Alfred but they called him Stephen in honour of his dead older brother. Changing names seems to be a family trick. The family also doesn’t seem to be good with money and many of the brothers went bankrupt and dodged debts.
Brother William used George's name in bankrupt court cases and even on children B certs. He had many aliases in his court cases: George Wm Hoy, George Missen etc, he died in Maitland gaol.
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hi
I have most of the information on John Linsley, his speeches and newspaper reports. The Linsley family tree is on the net ( I think everyone is NSW is related)
My G Grandfather was Joseph Dobinson Linsley and My grandfather was Albert Ernest Linsley. ( William Dobinson brother of John Linsley's wife Ann also came to Australia)
Muss
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I hope this is the right place for this query?, as it started as a Charters Towers Question.
These people have on their D certs that they are buried CofE, at Charters Towers Cemetery.
- George Hoy (80yo) d1922, and his wife
- Ann Christine Hoy (45yo) d1892
I have checked the online CT Pioneer Cemetery records from various sources (which seems to be the right time period - esp 1892) and they arent listed?
Q: is there more than one cemetery, and thus more records?
can anyone shed light on this?
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You could contact the local council at Charters Towers to find out about how many cemeteries.
As it was a big place one time, quite likely more than one.
I am having difficulty tracking down my Chinese Great Grandfather Georg Ah Hoy, or as he was buried simply George Hoy. .
Many people don't realise that the Ah that appears in so many Chinese names is simply Mr.
But it gets listed more often than not as part of the surname.
This is why George was buried as George Hoy.
Dawn M
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Two cemeteries...scroll down the page. The visitors centre has the records.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0k3b/
Cando
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I thought I had asked these questions when this thread first started but I must have dreamt it ;D
McGreevey, why did you originally have the idea that George was Chinese?
Why do you think he ever used the name Ah Hoy?
Do you have a photo of him?
Debra :)
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Hi Debra
have always been told that his name was George Ah Hoy and this I have from the last link to George, his living granddaughter.
McG
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If he was 80 when he died in 1922, and he actually was Chinese, then it is unlikely that he was born in New South Wales ( in 1842 ).
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his wife was considerably younger than him, have you got t ir marriage certificate as this should detail where and when both parties were born.
The online cemetery records only show a few people buried there, it is a big cemetery. You would have to contact the Charters Towers History group for more information and I do beleive they charge for the servoce
Jenn
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If he was 80 when he died in 1922, and he actually was Chinese, then it is unlikely that he was born in New South Wales ( in 1842 ).
I am concerned about "unlikely that he was born in New South Wales (in 1842 ) "....
There are various online websites that show that there were Chinese in NSW from the beginning of the Colony. Afterall, several ships of the First Fleet sailed for Canton to obtain cargo there, rather than sailing directly back to England. Trade between Canton and UK ports had been well established by the 1780s. I think of the expression "shanghai'd" and its origins ... ships' crew ...
I understand that Mr Bigge's report/s of 1821 addressed concerns about this.
As I understand it, long before 1840s there were people either born in China or with Chinese parentage who were living in NSW.
I also understand that BEFORE the Gold Rushes, that after the ceasation of transportation to NSW (effectively from after 1840) that much larger numbers of Chinese arrived as indentured labourers. (Shepherds, irrigation experts etc). I also understand that more than 3000 indented Chinese arrived from 1848 to 1852 to Sydney from Fujian (via Amoy in many cases).
Cheers, JM
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Some of the ships of the First Fleet sailed to China, to get cargo there, to take back to England, rather than sail back empty, as there was nothing to export from Sydney in 1788.
Chinese were present in NSW in minuscule numbers before 1848, however much the hard-core political correctness dweebies would like to posit otherwise. There was an African and a Latvian on the first fleet too. There was the very well known John Shying, and three shepherds working for Macarthur, and ... undoubted some more but the records have been covered up, don't you know?
http://www.heritage.nsw.gov.au/docs/chinesehistory.pdf
My great-great gradfather Alfred Cluney was buried by an undertaker called Shying.
Furthermore, a second-generation Chinese person born in Australia is not all that likely to have gone by the chinese-form honorific Ah Hoy which as several people have pointed out, is not actually a name.
A death certifcate assertion about place of birth is only a reliable as the knowledge of the person providing the information, which is highly variable.
By 1855, there were 100,000 Chinese in Australia, compared to maybe 1000 ten years earlier ( and all invisible in any documentation ) . In the absence of any other evidence, a supposedly 80 year old man dying in 1922 is far more likely to be a member of the first category, rather than the second.
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Hi there eregli_gene,
I trust you are not considering that I am a hard-core political correctness dweebie....
I am not seeking to disagree with you, nor with your own research, nor am I seeking to confuse "correct" statements with "politically correct" statements.
You will kindly note that in early Sept 2010 I posted on this thread and I offered a likely candidate with the surname HOY migrating from England, as well as a likely candidate from Canton seeking naturalisation.
As I understand it, there were far more than 1000 people in NSW with Chinese heritage in 1840. One of my forebears did a great deal of research during the 1920s-1950s. I have those private papers, the figure varies from around 5000 to 12000.
Cheers, JM
Some of the ships of the First Fleet sailed to China, to get cargo there, to take back to England, rather than sail back empty, as there was nothing to export from Sydney in 1788.
Chinese were present in NSW in minuscule numbers before 1848, however much the hard-core political correctness dweebies would like to posit otherwise. There was an African and a Latvian on the first fleet too. There was the very well known John Shying, and three shepherds working for Macarthur, and ... undoubted some more but the records have been covered up, don't you know?
http://www.heritage.nsw.gov.au/docs/chinesehistory.pdf
My great-great gradfather Alfred Cluney was buried by an undertaker called Shying.
Furthermore, a second-generation Chinese person born in Australia is not all that likely to have gone by the chinese-form honorific Ah Hoy which as several people have pointed out, is not actually a name.
A death certifcate assertion about place of birth is only a reliable as the knowledge of the person providing the information, which is highly variable.
By 1855, there were 100,000 Chinese in Australia, compared to maybe 1000 ten years earlier ( and all invisible in any documentation ) . In the absence of any other evidence, a supposedly 80 year old man dying in 1922 is far more likely to be a member of the first category, rather than the second.
On line INDEX at NSW SR there is 20 Oct 1883 naturalisation for HOY Ah, native place of Canton, China. There is a facility to order a copy of the full record.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx I entered "Ah Hoy" in their keyword search.
Also I noticed that in April 1855 on the ship Constitution there was a family with surname HOY migrating to Australia from UK. Among that family were twin boys aged 12, one was named George (born 1842-3). The passenger list is digitised and freely available online at http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/nrs-lists/nrs-5316 None in the family could read. The family had been living in Cams, England before migrating, I haven't followed that up, but perhaps others may, to determine if that family and their forebears were Anglo Saxon.
Cheers, JM
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Well I did notice that you raised the possibility that the folks from Cambridge were the ones being sought. Yes indeed. In 1855 ? Are you suggesting that 12 year old George on that ship, was a NSW-born person returning to NSW after a soujourn in England ?
And you did also mention the naturalisation of Ah Hoy, native of Canton China, too.
It is certainly not beyond the bounds of possibility that he was born in NSW in 1842, but, in my opinion, statistically highly unlikely and certainly to be taken with a grain of salt.
If you really do have "private papers" about the substantial chinese population of NSW in the mid 1840's, I suggest you publish them. You'd earn yourself a PhD and probably a gong from the Governor-General.
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If you really do have "private papers" about the substantial chinese population of NSW in the mid 1840's, I suggest you publish them. You'd earn yourself a PhD and probably a gong from the Governor-General.
Excuse me, but .... I have those private papers... they were bequeathed to me with conditions attached. They will be lodged with The Mitchell Library in due course, in accordance with the express wishes of the person who carried out that research.... ie they will be lodged no earlier than April 2020, one hundred years after the research was commenced. I am not into seeking a gong from anyone, nor was the original researcher. A number those holding Uni qualification in NSW History are aware of the contents of those papers and have been given access to them, and have followed up with their own research, much of which has validated the info in those private papers.
You need to consider that in the 1830s and 1840s NSW encompassed a much larger territory than today.
Cheers, JM
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his wife was considerably younger than him, have you got t ir marriage certificate as this should detail where and when both parties were born. JENN
You know Jenn, in my reply page 2 Reply #11, I proposed the same line of action and to date have not had any comment upon the idea!
Sue
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"You need to consider that in the 1830s and 1840s NSW encompassed a much larger territory than today. "
Not sure what point you are trying to make here, but well yeah, but it didn't include China.
Are you suggesting that the Port Phillip District or the Moreton Bay District had a large population of Chinese in 1842 ? They didn't have a large population of anything, in 1842. Not even rabbits.
And I don't think many octogenarians dying in Queensland or Victoria in the 1920's, who were born in those places in the 1840's, would have put down "New South Wales" on the form, either.
And if they were actually born in New South Wales, they probably would have put "Parramatta NSW", or "Maitland NSW", or "Bathurst NSW" on the form.
I suggest that rather than continue this rather pointless discussion, we should help the OP find the record of marriage or children's birth which may shed more light on his birthplace.
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Hi eregli_gene and others following this thread,
I suggest that rather than continue this rather pointless discussion, we should help the OP find the record of marriage or children's birth which may shed more light on his birthplace.
eregli_gene,
:) Have you followed up for the OP on the suggestions I offered back in 2010?
:) Perhaps you could look for the family in say 1851 in Cams?
OR
:) if you have easy and ready access to naturalisation papers you could follow that up,
OR
:) :) you could perhaps follow up both suggestions.
Currently I am not able to.
I agree with Sue re that marriage cert, which as it was for 1867 may well have some elusive blanks. I do note that there was a baptism for a George F Hood 1847. The ref no. at NSW BDM would be Vol 35, line 3356. The parents given names are indexes as George and Hannah. I am fairly confident that Vol 35 contains C of E baptisms INCLUDING MANY for Bathurst, NSW.
If, as I suspect, there are blanks on that 1867 mc, then perhaps our OP could use some of the techniques I offered in the following thread
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,546609.0.html
Cheers, JM, PS, I note that I did not commence the "conversation" to which you are eregli_gene is referring.
On line INDEX at NSW SR there is 20 Oct 1883 naturalisation for HOY Ah, native place of Canton, China. There is a facility to order a copy of the full record.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx I entered "Ah Hoy" in their keyword search.
Also I noticed that in April 1855 on the ship Constitution there was a family with surname HOY migrating to Australia from UK. Among that family were twin boys aged 12, one was named George (born 1842-3). The passenger list is digitised and freely available online at http://www.records.nsw.gov.au/state-archives/guides-and-finding-aids/nrs-lists/nrs-5316 None in the family could read. The family had been living in Cams, England before migrating, I haven't followed that up, but perhaps others may, to determine if that family and their forebears were Anglo Saxon.
Cheers, JM
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And I don't think many octogenarians dying in Queensland or Victoria in the 1920's, who were born in those places in the 1840's, would have put down "New South Wales" on the form, either.
And if they were actually born in New South Wales, they probably would have put "Parramatta NSW", or "Maitland NSW", or "Bathurst NSW" on the form.
Eregli_gene it would be hard for anyone who has died to put down anything on their death certificate form.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
And even in 1842, you would need only one male and one female of Chinese origin to produce one child, also of Chinese origin.
:D :D :D :D :D :D
Dawn M
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Hi
Maybe McGreevy has her information from Genboy
Muss
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Hello all
Sue sorry for not replying to your suggestion re marriage cert for George and Ann. I did research it and found the the information was unavailable as they had been married by the Rev. Bailey and some of his records for the year of their marriage are missing. They were married in the Free Church of England and the records are sketchy.
I have received no further information from Genboy and would welcome his input. Thank you all for your input.
McG
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Hi Everyone,
Muss, I believe we are also related as Joseph Dobinson Linsley (Son of John Linsley and Ann Dobinson) is my G G Grandfather. You mentioned earlier that you have copies of John's speeches, newspaper articles etc. Are you able to guide me to where I might find copies of these? Sorry I would PM but don't seem to be able to yet.
Many thanks.
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Hi
All newspaper items are in the Newcastle Morning Herald , maybe soon it will be on Trove.
Muss
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Hi everyone,
I live in Charters Towers so if anyone wants headstone photos just let me know. The Charters Towers Pioneer cemetery is about a 5 minute walk from my place and the Charters Towers Cemetery Lynd Highway is only a few minutes drive so its not a problem if anyone wishes for photos. [Tho there isnt many headstones left standing in the Pioneer Cemetery todate]
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Hi giblet,
I have been researching Charters Towers for a couple of years now I have a number of past family members buried there from the 1890s onwards.
Thanks for the photo offer, I do have some photos from my visit but it is likely that I'll need a couple more for the ones I missed.
Regards
Gerry
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Hi Gerry,
Just PM me any details when your ready :)
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Hi
There are two cemeteries in Charters Towers. Ann Christina Hoy died of a cerebral vascular accident (stroke). All of her sons became miners, one of whom became a watchmaker in his early years. After his brother discovered the Prince of Wales nugget in Charters Towers, he went mining with his father and brothers. All of the females in the family received a ring with a chunk of the nugget on them and the males all received tie clips with a chunk of gold on them from the nugget. Ann Christina Hoy is actually buried as Annie Christina Hoy.
One of the daughters was also called Ann Christina who married Ioan Price (Pronounced Yawn). On their marriage certificate, Ioan has been documented as "Joan" Price. My grandmother was Ioan and Ann Christina's "Tina" daughter. She has passed a lot of stories and information about her family.
I hope this helps Val G.
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George (Ah) Hoy married Ann Christina Newlands. Her family came from the Stanthorpe area in Southern Queensland (South of Toowoomba).
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Hello again
As you can tell I am researching my family and the Hoy family is one of great interest. I can tell you that if you have a great great and or grandfather with the names George, Robert, Alfred or Thomas Hoy (unless the father of these boys), you are not related. Not one of these boys ever married and remained single until they died. The gold was their mistress and mining it was their life. They did not have time to marry. My grandmother was the boys' niece.
You will find Ann Christina Hoy (formerly Newlands), is actually buried as Annie Christina Hoy. Ann Christina Hoy and George Hoy (Hood) had, Agnes Jane, Ada Florence, Ann Christina, Alice (did not live past one year old), Then the boys, Robert, Alfred, George and Thomas. Ann Christina (Jnr) married Ioan Price (pronounced Yawn).
I hope this clears up some misconception I have been reading about.
Val G
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Out of curiosity, were they Chinese? A lot of discussion this thread about it.
regards
jennaya
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This discussion has been going on for a years about 'George Hoy', of Charters Towers, QLD - was he of Chinese 'AH HOY' or Cambridge England 'HOY' ? My recent DNA test has cleared it up I hope.
I mentioned earlier that I'm descendant from 2 of the Fulbourn Cambridge HOYS from the 1855 ship 'Constitution', and I proposed the George Hoy of Charters Towers QLD, was a long lost brother of these Hoys of Maitland, NSW. I was put down proposing such a notion, so I sighed and put the BMD certificates away in the drawer as duds.
But the DNA test is in and YES I am closely linked to those QLD Hoys (ref Ancestry.com trees +DNA). So I think I'm safe to assume he wasn't Chinese, but he was a baker. Check Trove for articles in "Toowoomba Chronicle".
But for some unknown reason c.1867-71 he was obfuscating his name to 'Hood' to make it hard to track him down; maybe like his brother William he had legal troubles?
So case closed as far as I'm concerned. Any Qs on the lineage just ask. bye
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I have read the thread and may I be so bold as to be a party pooper on this one.
'majm' put forward the possibility the Charters Towers, George Hoy d1922 was from the one from the 1855 'Constitution' from Cambridge England, and I think he maybe. He was my GG Uncle. He has been missing from the records from 1867 (George Hood M date), where he was a baker from Mailtand, NSW (near me), with brothers Alfred and Thomas Hoy (matches his children's names). I stumbled across him in QLD records and tracked him back to the AKA George Hood marriage in Sydney. Then I got his D cert from QLD, which states he's from Maitland, NSW. His brother William was running bad debts and using George's name, so I suspect he used a pseudonym to escape court action. Another of his brother's changed his name too and hid in Sydney, dodging all record keeping - its a family thing:) Although not conclusive, the born in Maitland on his D cert is compelling. I think I'll get the M cert and some children's B certs for more info. getting expensive if I'm wrong.
Please prove me wrong or otherwise. Comments?
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The fella that went to Sydney, I think Alfred Hoy from Warialda... Any idea what he changed his name to?
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Ah brother Alfred, he was a successful shopkeeper in Warialda, NSW. His nickname was 'Stephen' as I suspect he was nicknamed after an an older brother Stephen who died in Fulbourn,Cambridge before he was born. His brother (my ancestor) Thomas went from Lambton in Newcastle to build Alfred's store in Warialda in the early 1890s. But in the mid 1890s Alfred fell in love with his housekeeper/nanny Margaret Greenwood and ran away to Pennant Hills, Sydney (near Fulbourne Ave - a giveaway).
He spent a lot of trouble 'not being seen', and it took years of research to track him down; but I found he changed/used the name as just 'ALFRED', and his sons from this relationship took that name as their surname. There are DNA matches to these children's families and mine. He's buried at Rookwood Anglican as Alfred HOY.
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Ah brother Alfred, he was a successful shopkeeper in Warialda, NSW. His nickname was 'Stephen' as I suspect he was nicknamed after an an older brother Stephen who died in Fulbourn,Cambridge before he was born. His brother (my ancestor) Thomas went from Lambton in Newcastle to build Alfred's store in Warialda in the early 1890s. But in the mid 1890s Alfred fell in love with his housekeeper/nanny Margaret Greenwood and ran away to Pennant Hills, Sydney (near Fulbourne Ave - a giveaway).
He spent a lot of trouble 'not being seen', and it took years of research to track him down; but I found he changed/used the name as just 'ALFRED', and his sons from this relationship took that name as their surname. There are DNA matches to these children's families and mine. He's buried at Rookwood Anglican as Alfred HOY.
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Thanks Genboy, that's great info. I've searched for Alfred Hoys formal death records to no avail.
I'd be keen on finding his grave details at Rookwood too, I've already found Margaret Greenwoods.
I'm GG son of these pair.
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Alfred HOY, aged 80, interred Rookwood Anglican 19 April 1926, Zone C, Section 7, Grave 4511
NOTICE also that it may have been indexed as Harold ALFRED aged 80, - same grave, and interred same date.
http://www.rookwoodcemetery.com.au/
NSW BDM online index has the 1926 death as Alfred HAY 80 years, of Pennant Hills Registered Ryde District. #10631.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2T4-WXQ3 probate file would be at NSW Archives, Kingswood. See the following thread : https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703011.0
JM edit to show year of death as 1926....
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Alfred HOY, aged 80, interred Rookwood Anglican 19 April 1926, Zone C, Section 7, Grave 4511
NOTICE also that it may have been indexed as Harold ALFRED aged 80, - same grave, and interred same date.
http://www.rookwoodcemetery.com.au/
NSW BDM online index has the 1926 death as Alfred HAY 80 years, of Pennant Hills Registered Ryde District. #10631.
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:Q2T4-WXQ3 probate file would be at NSW Archives, Kingswood. See the following thread : https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=703011.0
JM edit to show year of death as 1926....
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Thanks very much. Finally have it sorted.