RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: sivam01 on Friday 03 September 10 06:10 BST (UK)
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I'm researching a John Cross in Marylebone, Westminster(supposedly 40 in the 1841 census) but his death certificate shows him 7 years older than that,(1849 55years). There are other Crosses two doors away(Robert) would they be related? Also he was a victualler but was he also in another job? Some more experienced researchers could maybe help me. Thankyou. ::) ::) ::)
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Hi and welcome to rootschat.
The 1841 census does not give exact ages... ages were rounded down.
However, ages can be wrong on death certs as what is there is what the informant said.
The other Crosses may well have been related and further research may reveal if that is so.
As a matter of personal interest, does it give an exact address in Marylebone? I used to live there :)
Sorry not to be more help
charlotte
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Thanks for the reply to my enquiry regarding John Cross(publican-Caledonian Arms) address on death certificate was 23 Princess Street, Marylebone in 1849, although I have found him at 5,20,53 all so confusing. Also in the archives having property stolen from his hotel, but with a wife I can't trace. I have found his second marriage in 1835, not to my gggrandmother though! Thanks once again for posting. :D :D :D
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hi sivam
have you any info on j c,s first wife or any idea where it took place
trevor
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If the John Cross you're seeing had a father who came from a large family, then the other John Crosses that you're seeing could well be cousins, born in the same area. Families also had the habit of using favourite names within the family, so if 'your' John Cross's father had brothers who settled in the area, they could have sons of about the same age (called John) living close by.
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Thanks T mo and Nick29. The 1841 census says not born in county. His second marriage was to a widow Elizabeth Seymour (formerly Farrer) but don't know who his first wife was but could have been Sarah Gowing? (an Old Bailey Court case said Susan Cross wife John Cross of "Caledonian Arms" involved in reporting a theft from the premises-that was in 1830) Maybe Sarah written looks a bit like Susan?
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There certainly could be a transcription error over Sarah and Susan.
Can you try to get a look at the original hadwritten entry? This may help solve the matter.
charlotte :)
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Thanks CharlotteCH will try to get a copy of transcript.
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Thanks T mo and Nick29. The 1841 census says not born in county.
The 1841 census was notoriously innaccurate :)
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If you can get a scan of the transcript and post it for us to look at, maybe we can help decipher it.
charlotte
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Thanks Nick29 and CharlotteCH have checked on the Old Bailey website but unfortunately the transcript reference is only typed and doesn't seem to be available in handwritten form. It was an offence in july 1830 and seems fairly comprehensive. Perhaps you have an idea if it would be available somehow. ::)
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Unfortunately a transcript is what it means - handwriting transcribed into printed text. You would need to get in touch with the keeper of the Old Bailey archive to ask if it's possible to access the original documents.
I'm afraid your problem is an all-too-common one. You have someone with a fairly common name living in a very large city. Not so much a case of finding who is your ancestor, more one of finding out who isn't. I have the same problem.
If the Old Bailey originals are not available, your only other hope is to track down baptism records, and try to establish relationships between the various CROSS family members. You have to bear in mind that dates and ages were not as important to people in those days as they are to us, and many people did not reliably know how old they were.
Good luck ! :)
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Thanks Nick29 that helps. I can see I'll have to look outside the square. ;D ;D ;D
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I'm researching a John Cross in Marylebone, Westminster(supposedly 40 in the 1841 census) but his death certificate shows him 7 years older than that,(1849 55years). There are other Crosses two doors away(Robert) would they be related? Also he was a victualler but was he also in another job? Some more experienced researchers could maybe help me. Thankyou. ::) ::) ::)
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Another general enquiry hope this is in the right area. If a person died in London but was born in, for example Yorkshire. Where would his will be found. i.e. would it be in London? Thankyou. ???
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hi sivam
as there is no legal reason to lodge a will with anyone it would be where ever a person wanted to leave it or keep it with them amongst there own affects
trevor
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Thanks t mo maybe there was no will. Back to the drawing board.
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hi sivam
you asked about wills if you think there may have been one for john cross say then it,s worth checking the probate records and the like if you google probate records there,s connections to several sites , also the national archives have records of wills proven .
trevor
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Thanks t mo. I have an ancestry.com sub-no luck there, burial record though. Checked archives ditto. but will try googling probate records. I know of one daughter (Ann) said she was born in Leicestershire 1825 but any others from that marriage appear to have been born in Marylebone.
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Thanks t mo maybe there was no will. Back to the drawing board.
I have about 3000 people in my tree, and out of that number, I've only found a handful that made wills (even the weathier ones who I thought would have done so). The sad truth is that the majority of people had very little to leave - many of mine were so poor, they couldn't even afford grave stones ! Even today, when we're all wealthy (compared to 100 years ago), only about 40% of us actually make a will.
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Thanks t mo for taking the time to reply to my post (no joy from googled probates). Have decided to order some other certificates (I know these people are related) and see if they shed any light on other relations!
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hi sivam
my pleasure hope you have luck with the certs
take care trevor ;)