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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: jj.carroll on Friday 03 September 10 19:07 BST (UK)
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I am looking for illusive materials on the AMOS sisters, ANNIE, ISABELLA and MARY, and anything on the life of JOHN AMOS GAFFIGAN, my great grandfather. This would include materials on MARGARET CRENNAN GAFFIGAN, my great grandmother, and AGNES BRIDGID CRENNAN GAFFIGAN CARROLL, as stated in her obituary and was my grandmother.
MARY AMOS GAFFIGAN (with her sisters, ANNIE AMOS [or possibly McKEE] and ISABELLA CAMPBELL) had left to go to Scotland with her husband PATRICK GAFFIGAN. We have not located their marriage, in either Ireland or Scotland. Patrick was also born in Ireland according to records we have found. They had two children, Thomas and John Amos, who were born in Scotland. After his death she took the children and went to California to live among the two other sisters had arrived in Northern California - before 1867.
In our search for my great grandfather, JOHN AMOS GAFFIGAN, we found that he arrived in the United States with his mother and brother THOMAS in July 1867, aboard the SS Iowa from Glasgow and Londonderry-Moville. We know that he was born in Paisley, Scotland, about 1859, but his parents, Mary AMOS and Patrick GAFFIGAN, were according to various census information from somewhere in Ireland but had left for Scotland probably for work. His father Patrick was born about 1822 and mother Mary was born about 1833, and in both cases ostensibly in Ireland – probably Ulster. Patrick apparently died in Scotland, but we have no details of that death and burial at all.
The family, without the father, arrived in New York and stayed in New Haven, Connecticut. to get bearings from their relatives or sponsors before they made the trip to California. But we have no idea who those people might have been.
We also do not know how they made their way and transited to the Isthmus. But they boarded the Moses Taylor in Nicaragua bound for San Francisco. There they were met by Mary’s sisters. But we have run into an identification problem. It seems as though they may have been sponsored by either one or both of her sisters, who were resident of San Francisco at that time.
The Gaffigans (or Goffigans as listed in the Manifest), and (who may have started out in Scotland as McGaffigan according to the 1851 Scottish census) were met in San Francisco by a Mrs. Charles (Isabella, nee AMOS) CAMPBELL, who then lived at #6 Thompson Avenue in South Park, San Francisco. (This was prior to the great earthquake and fire of 1906, which destroyed much of that area.) They were met also by a Miss Annie AMOS of #5 Thompson Avenue, another aunt that was then single, widowed or divorced.
Mr. Charles Campbell was evidently employed as a collar maker at the Kimball Company at 4th and Bryant. They lived on that block that had a Miss Kelly and daughter, the Crennan family (John married a Maggie Crennan), the Driscolls and the Goodenoughlys.
The Gaffigans temporarily stayed with Annie (or Anna) AMOS (who may have been a Mrs. McKee, but we do not know: SF Census, 1880, born about 1832). They had landed in San Francisco about August 1867. They then had to move to Alameda California in 1868 with Annie because of the earthquake that year. The two families resided with a Dr. Lambert for the rest of the year and returned to San Francisco in 1869. They then resided with a Mr. James O’CONNELL who had a stationary and book store at 310 5th street. But we do not know just where Annie lived at that time, nor do we know where the Campbells were residing.
We would like to confirm that Isabella CAMPBELL (CAMPPELL in SF 1880 census, born about 1834) and Annie AMOS (possibly Anna McKEE) were the sisters of Mary AMOS GAFFIGAN.
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Duplicate post on Renfrewshire board (I'll lock that one to prevent duplication of searching and replies)-
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,480355.msg3391885.html#msg3391885
Previous threads on Amos sisters here:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,246933.msg1919993.html#msg1919993
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,247268.msg1573140.html#msg1573140
Earlier thread on Mary Amos here:
www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,323729.msg2043428.html#msg2043428
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1880 Census San Francisco, California
John Gaffigan 23 Born Scotland. Printer
Maggie Gaffigan 21 Born California.
Arthur Gaffigan 1m Born California
1900 Census San Francisco, California
All children born California
John Gaffigan 43 Born Scotland. Married 1878. Immigrated 1867. Naturalized. printer.
Margaret Gaffigan 41 Had 7 Children and 7 survive.
Arthur Gaffigan 20 Singer
Albert Gaffigan 17 Peddler Of fruits
John Gaffigan 15 Can-Maker
Mary Gaffigan 13
Aggie Gaffigan 11
Lillie Gaffigan 8
Clara Gaffigan 9 months
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09p1/
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1910 Census San Francisco Assembly District 34, San Francisco, California
John Gaffigan 52 Married for 32 years. Painter. House. Immigrated 1870
Margaret Gaffigan 32 Had 8 children and 7 survive
Arthur A Gaffigan 30 Labourer. All Kinds
Albert A Gaffigan 28 Printer
Agnus A Gaffigan 21 Stenographer. Painter. House.
Lilly A Gaffigan 18 Cashier. Theatre.
Clara Gaffigan 10
Albert Gaffigan 11/2
Mary A Gaffigan 23
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1870 Census San Francisco Ward 9, San Francisco, California
Chas Campell 43 Born New Jersey. Engineer.
Isabella Campell 38 Born Ireland.
1880 Census San Francisco, California
C. Camppell 54 Born New Jersey. Commission Mt
Isabella Camppell 46 Born ireland
Anna Mckee 48 Born ireland. Boarder
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Sandra, thank you very much ;D
This last transmission is very new information and it starts to fill a hole that I have been wondering about.
So I can go back to New Jersey to locate the Campbells (sic) to see when they married. It is now evident that they - the sisters - came to San Francisco from that area. I had heard that Anna might have been married, but we had her as Annie Amos for so long we did not know. This boarder is the oldest sister, and it confirms that she must have gotten married somewhere along the line. I wonder just where.
Mary, John's mother, was in Scotland but what of the sisters? That is a trail I am attempting to unravel.
Maggie Gaffigan, John's wife, was a Crennan (nee Murphy) and they lived next door in South Park, San Francisco.
That 1870 census material was new as it relates to the Campell (sic). I wonder if I have been barking up the wrong tree by looking for Campbell when their name may have been Campell or Camppell. It gives me something more to go on. Again, thank you very much!!! 8) I have just had my eyes opened.
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Living next door to Charles Campell in 1870 was Thomas Campbell, age 30, machinist. He was born in Scotland. Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but could he possibly have been a relative?
Could your Gaffigans have moved to Alameda County in 1868? If they did live in the City of Alameda, and you are interested, I could tell you a bit about their neigbourhood, if you have their address. (I know Alameda [city] quite well.)
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Hi Lisa,
Just to update on the searches I've done so far.
I did see Thomas Campbell above Charles on the 1870 - wife and children all born New York but can't locate marriage for that. See an entry for a Thomas Campbell born Ireland with his Mother in 1860 New York but no Scotland entries.
New Jersey Marriages 1768 - 1985 shows nothing for Chas/Charles Campell/Camppell/Campbell that I can see.
A few Charles Campell/Campbell born around 1826/27 nothing that sticks out in earlier Census for New Jersey or California.
Nothing in the California San Francisco Area Funeral Home Records 1835 - 1931 that I can see for any Gaffigan/Campell/McKee etc.,
Castlegarden or the "A" site don't have any appropriate immigration entries for Isabella or Annie/Anna Amos. Tried them under McKee and Campell/Camppell/Campbell to see if either went to the USA married - drawn a blank there as well.
Nearest I came was an entry for an Isabella Ames aged 22 years Londonderry to Philadelphia on SS Rockaway 23 Aug 1853 ???
Regards
Sandra :(
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::) Lisa, as a result of the earthquake in 1868 (and except for the fire of 1906, it was a doozy!) both Mary and her kids went to Alameda. Annie went also.
They lived for that short time, according to John's Journal (and you must sift through that because it took a lot of imagination for him to compile), "in a large rustic holding as a hostelry." It was owned by a Doctor Lambert. According to an 1880 census record a Bernard Lambert lived on High Street in Alameda and he was a retired physician.
:-\ Sandra, I had been in correspondence with a person that indicated she was a daughter-in-law of John Amos Gaffigan for a while, and then it ended when the bubble was busted up, and she had to attend to her children. It seems that she had a "Journal" and you had to read it with quite a bit of salt because it was after the fact and did not relate to a lot of real world. But, it contained enough to look around San Francisco and I have used it as a starting point in many of my searches. Aggie B, my grandmother, evidently did not get along with John her father and was very closed mouth about the early years. Actually, very little in that family could have been civil discourse for John went a little batty in his mid-life and later.
I never heard about the Thomas Campbell, but then I actually heard little about that part of the family. His journal did not mention those children and he did mention the Crennan girl, who he married in later life.
I have Charles Campell/Camppell working as a collar maker, not an engineer or commission(?), and as it was transcribed to me it was a Campbell. His Journal stated about 1867, "We are sent to a childrens scholll at No 1 Thompson Ave. More to lose our brogue than anything. There was six houses on this little street. No 1 by Mrs Kelly and her daughter who kept the little school #2 by the Crenan (sic) family - 3 by the Driscoll family 4 - by Mr Goodenough and wife - 5 by Miss Annie Amos and 6 by Mr. and Mrs Campbell..." There was no Thomas Campbell on that street at the time Mary came to live with the two sisters.
But, I do think that you may have found an entry that could lead to some place. That was the "Ames" one. The age does track a bit for Isabella as she was 2 years younger than her sister Anna. Given that she had listed her age as 22 in 1853 she would have been born about 1831 or 1832. Because there may have been something (???) going on between the McCarrolls and the Amos girls, and she left for Philadelphia from Londonderry (Moville?) that is a port in Ulster and closely associated with those of Tyrone. We have never been able to track those girls, only Mary and Patrick and the fact that they were both born in Ireland.
??? Could there have been something about Connecticut? Mary and the kids stayed there, according to the Journal, before they left for California. Or, alternatively, because this person came through Philadelphia (and a lot of Irish did), she may have gotten married around there. Could Anna have been married to someone there, or over in Ulster - we may never find out.
Just remember, in Latin the term for Irish was Scotus. And it is just across the lake, and a lot of Irish had gone over there, and a lot of Scots had come over to Ireland and Ulster over the years.
Thank you, thank you! Jim
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Hello Jim,
The Pennsylvania - Philadelphia Marriage Index runs 1885 - 1951 so drew a blank there on Isabella Ames.
Tried to locate James OConnell in 1880 - daft thought being could Mary have re-married ???
Where is Thomas Gaffigan ??? I can see a possible in 1900, 1910 and 1920. With Thomas on the 1910 is a mother Mary aged 78 years born in Ireland 1832 but Thomas appears to have been born in Massachusetts in 1859 ??? His wife was Emma Hart married 1893 but Thomas was widowed by 1910.
Tried to come forward in the hope of finding something in the lines of John Gaffigan's children that might link Campell - McKee - John Amos Gaffigan born 31 Aug 1884 in San Francisco, CA. Died 23 Aug 1946 in San Mateo, CA. Owner of Gaffigan Sheet Metal Works. I see there still is a Gaffigan Company in San Mateo. He married Marguerite Mary McCarthy b: 04 March 1892 in Santa Clara Co, CA. So far I can see nothing -
Still searching ???
Regards
Sandra ;)
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Hello Jim,
Where is Thomas Gaffigan ??? I can see a possible in 1900, 1910 and 1920. With Thomas on the 1910 is a mother Mary aged 78 years born in Ireland 1832 but Thomas appears to have been born in Massachusetts in 1859 ??? His wife was Emma Hart married 1893 but Thomas was widowed by 1910.
Regards
Sandra ;)
Just blown this possibility out of the water - marriage record for Thomas Gaffigan shows fathers name as John and Mother as Mary Conners. :(
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Have you been in touch with this contact on the link below - they seems to be saying John Amos Gaffigan was married previously ??? Last worked on the site in June 2010. But they are no further back than John ???
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09pm/
ADDED:- Same person on this link
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hhickman/pd3.htm
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Sandra, thank you for your illusive hunt. I had read the first posting and thought, "How did she ever go there... with Thomas?" Then I saw the next one, and was relieved.
I really think that it was a scriviner's error and that Izzy was the Ames because Amos is so little known in Northern Ireland. I think in all of my searches around there we only came up with a handful and none of them proved out. I will now go back over it and try again. That there were three girls, or sisters, that all indicate that they were from Ireland is an indication that there is something there. And, the fact that Patrick took Mary to Scotland so he could find work and is shown in two census records but there is no record of his death complicates the whole darned thing.
Also, when I said that John was a bit imaginative that was an understatement. He held out that he was a highlander and good Queen Victoria had given him the Highland Outfit that he wore to America - and he never was near the highlands being more familiar with Paisley and the Glasgow area. He denied he was Irish and held out he was a Scot, born in Scotland, and this was in an Irish comunity (in the late 1800s San Francisco was over 30 percent Irish!). But, we don't have a record of his father's death.
That is why I had turned to attempting to find something on those two sisters.
Oh well, for an old man it is much more than a game. Actually, it is now easier to keyboard than it is to talk due to a stroke that does keep me from blathering too much. But, I guess I make it up with all of this posting.
Again, thank you very much. Jim ::)
Whhhooops, something more just came in.
No, I don't have information on his marriage previously. Could it have been his son?
But I will look it over and let you know, after I shave and shower. It is 8:15 in the morning now, in the High Desert of Utah. Jim
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Hello Jim,
It is surprising that no-one is connecting these 3 sisters in Ireland ???
Funnily enough when I looked through 1860 Census entries for an Isabella Ames/Amos, I find one in Utah ??? Spooky ??? Just for information purposes I will type it below - this one born 1835 Scotland. ??? Everyone else listed has got various birthplaces. How do you make any sense of that one ???
1860 Cache, Utah Territory
Ira Ames 55 Born Utah
Catherine Ames 48 Born Utah
Sarah Ames 46 Born Ohio
Isabella Ames 25 Born Scotland
Saml Ames 18 Born illinois
Merredith Ames 15 Born Pennsylvania
Henry Ames 8 Born Utah
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Hello Jim,
Just to make you aware, there is a family tree on the "A" site which says Patrick Gaffigan born 1822 Ireland and Mary GIBSON born 1833 Ireland ??? No further details other than they have attached the 1861 Scotland Census and then followed the line of John, giving him a wife called Margaret Jackson ???
I've also noticed 2 entries in San Francisco Directories which you may or may not have already:-
John A. Gaffigan - Year: 1889 City: San Francisco - Location 2: 16 1/2 Sumner - Occupation: Pressman
and
John A. Gaffigan - Year: 1890 - City: San Francisco - State: CA
Location 2: r. 1131 Twenty-second - Occupation: Musician and Pressman
Sandra
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Entries for Thomas Gaffigan - US City Directories
1879 -1881
Mary Gaffigan - widow - r 2 Lewis
Mary A Gaffigan - widow - r 1025 Harrison
Thomas A Gaffigan - labourer - r 1025 Harrison
Thomas Gaffigan - Year: 1889 City: San Francisco State: CA - Location 2: 33 Lafayette - Business Name: S. F. Box Co. Occupation: Sawyer
Thomas A. Gaffigan - Year: 1890 City: San Francisco State: CA - Location 2: r. 33 Lafayette Business Name: S. F. Box Co. Occupation: Sawyer
Name: Thomas E. Gaffigan Year: 1890 City: San Francisco State: CA - Location 2: r. 618 Jones Business Name: W. H. Dwyer & Co. Occupation: Clerk
Sandra
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San Francisco Morning Call Newspaper - Vital Records for 1869-1900
http://www.jwfgenresearch.com/SFCall/6900-57.htm
Gaffigan, Thomas A married in 1880 to Riley, Letitia Could this be Thomas ???
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Now here is food for thought:-
1900 Census Redwood City, San Mateo, California
John C Conlon 43 Born England. Clergyman
Mary E Conlon 32 Born England. Sister
Rachael Kearns 50 Born England. Male. Clergyman
Letitia Gafigan 38 Born Sept 1862 Missouri. Father Ireland Mother England. Had 4 children and 2 survive. Widowed.
Mable Gafigan 18 Born August 1882. Father St Louis ??? Mother Scotland
Milton Gafigan 11 Born Jan 1889. Father St Louis. ??? Mother Scotland
1910 Census Oakland Ward 1, Alameda, California
Letitia Gaffigan 45 Born Missouri. Parents Ireland.
Milton Gaffigan 21 Father Born SCOTLAND. Mother Missouri.
Mabel Gaffigan 23 Father Born SCOTLAND. Mopther Missouri.
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Following through just to check the next 2 Census
1920 Census San Francisco Assembly District 27, San Francisco, California
Letitia Goffigan 58
Mable G Goffigan 25 Mother Missouri Father Ireland
Milton J Goffigan 6 Born 1914 Grandson. Father california Mothher Germany
1930 Census San Francisco, San Francisco, California
Milton J Gaffigan 39 Widowed. Born California. Father Scotland. Mother Missouri
Letitia Gaffigan 70 Born Missouri
Mabel G Gaffigan 36 Father Born Scotland. Mother Missouri
Milton J Gaffigan 16 Grandson Born California
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What is the A site? I think I should go to that "family tree" and let them know that while they have a Patrick and a Mary there is little that can be said of that line. The Amos is correct, and both John and John Junior have that as a middle name. And, further, Annie Amos was the older sister that Mary went to when Patrick evidently passed away. There are a few entries somewhere on these pages I think that do show Patrick and Mary in Refrenshaw (whatever that spelling is, and I will look it up later). I recall a number of years back when I attempted to find out his occupation.
My grandmother and aunt had passed on the story that Patrick was a Royal Horse Trader. Everyone believed it, and John had it in his Journal. It was surprising to us when we located him in Paisley and found that he was working with horses, but not as a trader. He was a teamster (but they did not call it then). And Mary was a seamstress. There were other problems with that Journal, but you can tell it was rather disappointing to the daughter or grand daughter in law to have that story dashed. One of the reasons, I believe, that she cut off the correspondence on John Amos Gaffigan. But, she did know that he was a little batty in the belfry. And, he was my great grandfather and I wonder if there isn't some of that passed on.
Let us face it, we really don't know who the author of those stories was. It could have been his Mother Mary for all that we know.
I have attempted to connect the three sisters and there actually is very little that can be said of them. They, the Amos line, is not a very popular line. And, they were Roman Catholic and registration for marriages and deaths did not occur until the 1860s for those people. That is why I keep posting every couple of years with the little updates that I have gotten.
You got the Thomas son right. He did hook up with a Letitia. I note that Thomas was a sawyer and that may be the reason why some of their line went up to Eureka, California. And it shows he was a Thomas A for Amos.
John Amos Gaffigan was a pressman that also dabbled with painting. He was a union leader, or at least was a charter member of the union. They went on to live in the Eureka Valley (above the Castro) and the girls evidently attended school at Notre Dame, a school attached to Mission Delores. Somebody else came up with Agnes's Mission Delores's confirmation.
Now to feed Beamer in that we have done our walking this morning.
Thanks Sandra, Jim 8)
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:) Hi Sandra, yes on the face of it the 1900 census data is very confusing. But, it can possibly be explained in that not everything was listed by the person reporting the things to the census collector. If Reverand Conlon, the other rev or Conlon's wife, did the reporting he/she just estimated the things for the Gaffigans to make sure that they were counted.
Letitia was evidently the wife of Thomas Amos Gaffigan, and she would be a Riley from Saint Louis Missouri, born of parents who were Irish. She was evidently widowed sometime after the 1890 census and possibly went to live with that reverand and his wife, with another reverand also there. It could be that the death had occurred very soon before the census was taken and that was why Letitia was living there, but that is pure speculation.
We have young Milton, and his son Milton - but there is no wife that was from Germany.
Oh well, never was that interested in my cousins from that apple tree, or could it have been a lemon tree?
I am just trying to make heads out of the tails that we have.
Regards, Jim ::)
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Sorry to say, I lost the plot a long time ago. ::)
But, adding a bit of history...
Jim, in case you haven't found exactly where Dr. Lambert was living...
It appears to me that the 1880 census shows Monroe Street as his address. As you start at the top of the census page and work your way down, the streets run
Court Street
High Street
Monroe Street (now Encinal Avenue)
Fountain Street
Jackson Street
On a goo..le map, with the exception of Court - High, Monroe/Encinal, Fountain and Jackson covers a full block. So, he most likely was living on Monroe, between High and Fountain.
If you are interested in finding out more about Dr. Lambert and/or the hostelry, I could ask a few people. I cannot guarantee any results and it may take a couple of weeks.
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Hi Lisa,
Think I have been through every combination I can think of to find any immigration records for Isabella and Annie under the various names but as you see "diddle squat" after 5 hours.
I was still hoping to turn something up on Mary Amos/Gaffigan if that was her listed in the 1879 - 1881 Directory ???
Judging by all the postings I have seen on google and various sites - Jim has been trying for years and never cracked the "proverbial brick-wall"
Regards
Sandra ;)
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Hi Jim,
The WW1 Draft for Milton Joseph Gaffigan (under Goffigan) born 9th Jan 1889. Previous Military experience was - Private in Infantry for 3 years.
Occupation was a Conductor for United Railroad. San Francisco. Married and had a child dependant on him but does not mention his wife's name. Infact it was written as wife and crossed through. But on the California Birth Index for the son Milton J Gaffigan it gave her maiden name.
The Grandson of Thomas Gaffigan - Milton J Gaffigan 19 May 1913 San Francisco
Mother's Maiden Name: Muigraw
Milton Joseph Gaffigan
Birth Date: 9 Jan 1889 California
Death Date: 15 Feb 1952 San Francisco
Mother's Maiden Name: Riley
Father's Surname: Gaffigan
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hello jim and sandra and lisa and all on this amos/gaffigan thread,
letitia gaffigan nee riley was theresa josephine riley's younger sisiter ( theresa being the eldest of the riley children) and may, kate, john, joseph, gertrude and thomas were also her siblings. thomas died at the age of 18 on 1 july 1893. sf call has an article about that.
theresa "tessie" married john anton ehrmann in 1889. they moved to deming new mexico.
kate was a teacher at haight primary, married to senator john j cassidy.
may married mr devers in sf.
gertrude married edward r brady.
elizabeth riley was their mom, thomas riley, a brick layer, was their dad. elizabeth and thomas were from county cavan. he is registered in the great sf registry as a voer in 1866.
1880 sf census has elisa as a widow. he was in the sf directory in 1868, so he must've passed on in those years before the census. sf directories list elisa as widow of thomas, living at 905 ellis st, sf.
theresa's daughter, gertrude elizabeth, born in san francisco 3 may 1888, from a marriage prior to mr ehrmann, and i am looking to find who he was, her first husband and the father of gertrude elizabeth.
gertrude elizabeth married a mr taylor in kansas city, mo. date unknown.
she had a daughter, gertrude marie purcell 2 oct 1917.
cheers,
tracey
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hi jim et al,
i was so excited to find these posts, that when i replied it was 2.30 am, and i gushed so much that in the quick edit, i moved around the great-great grandmother part:
theresa josephine riley was my gr-gr grandmother. gertrude elizabeth was her daughter, my grgrandmother, and gertrude marie purcell, my grandmother.
gertrude marie purcell's name on her birth certificate is : gertrude inez purcell
mother: gertrude ehrmann
father: fuller arthur purcell
born in kansas city mo
gertrude ehrmann uses her mom's second husband's name. john anton ehrmann.
it says on the birth certificate that this is the only child that gertrude has had, and that the parties are married.
but i can find no marriage record of gertrude ehrmann and fuller arthur purcell.
she was mrs gertude taylor in 1940 census. her daughter, gertrude, and her son ,gregory, my dad, are living in kansas city. i can find no record of gertrude ehrmann marrying a mr taylor.
her daughter, gertrude, is listed as gertrude m shamrell.
i did find a record for that short-lived marriage in platte co mo, to patrick m shamrell 0n 8 november, 1939. he is listed in the kansas city directory as living with mrs gertrude taylor, and her daughter, gertude.
he is in the 1940 census as an intern at st luke's nurse's hospital in kansas city.
he later can be found with another wife, kathryn, in santa clara county, california in 1942, i believe.
there was some court case about his selling narcotics, and aboandoning his wife and children in santa clara in 1942 or 3. but then he vanishes. truly.
this was her second marriage -- ? the first being to a mr hughes. i can find no record of the divorces from either men.
now, the rileys from missouri.
should i post another for this?
my great grandmother moved to missouri. she was born in sf, moved to deming with her family?
i have wondered why on earth she moved to kansas city. some notes from another family genealogist on the ehrmann side, say that gertrude moved to the east (from sf) to find out who her father was,
yet she went to her grave w/o knowing. her mother, theresa "tessie", held on to that secret tightly.
i look at the ages of her younger sisters and wonder if tessie, being the eldest, took on the child of one of theses young women? this does happen so often.
there are so many twists and turns in this saga.....
i have been searching for years!
such secrets and mysteries. we are all connected here somehow. there are some missing pieces.....
cheers much,
tracey
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Hi Tracey,
A Warm Welcome to Rootschat
Unfortunately jj.carroll or Jim has not been online since last August, I have sent him a pm to let him know you are trying to get in touch and really hope he does respond. Perhaps he has his notifications turned off at the moment, my fingers are crossed he will soon sign on again.
All the best
Sandra ;)
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hi sandra,
thank you so much for your reply! i was surprised to see it - i was trying to navigate the site and found your response.
i hope that jim is okay. i am so happy to find you all.
i wonder if isabella and inez somehow connect? the name inez on my grandmother's birth certificate comes out of the blue.
on the trail,
best wishes,
tracey
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Hi Tracey,
Looks like you are doing fine navigating the site. ;D Didn't want you thinking we were ignoring you ;D Will have to sit down in a quiet moment and have a reread of this thread since it was a little while ago I have forgotten much of the info.
Have a great day.
Sandra
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thank you , sandra!
best wishes,
tracey
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hi all,
in searching the riley family, specifically letitia's husband thomas gaffigan, i found this death notice of margaret gaffigan in san francisco, wife of milton gaffigan:
http://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn85066387/1913-05-20/ed-1/seq-4/
i hope that this helps someone.
tracey
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hi again,
there are many amos listings at this site:
and lots of gaffigans
http://sortedbyname.com/index.html
the more i search the riley/gaffigan line the more intrigued i am.
and the missouri/ california/ ireland/ scotland connection.
sometimes someone shines a light on things, coming out of nowhere.
hope this helps,
tracey
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That was fine research; however, it is not one of my past relatives. The mystery still lingers on all of these years.
But thank you ;D
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hi mr carroll,
i just found this:
http://www.sfgenealogy.com/sf/orphans/497.jpg
it may be something. who knows?
i continue the search for my riley ancestors.
best wishes,
tracey
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8) tracy,
Although it did not have anything on my father's side the fact that I found the Lick yearbooks was a partial success. You see, my mother was a graduate of Lux - the women's school - around 1932 or 33. While there was a pause after the 1931 year "books" it gave me a gratuitous feeling that the Gallaghers could be found somewhere in the archives. As you know, they spelt it Gallagher but pronounced it as Galla-her, from Counties Donegal and Fermanagh. To allow them a little latitude would be to go with the Leonards, my grandmother on my mother's side who was born Hazel Leonard and married a Jim Gallagher.
These Gaffigans were my grandmother's people from my father's side, which makes me a Son of the Golden West. Actually, she went to Ireland to marry my grandfather, Michael McCarroll (who had gone to San Francisco but returned to Ireland's County Tyrone.
Yes, it whets the appetite and one wonders how much could be found in these searches.
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Hello Sandra -
I am back, not from the dead but just muttering around in my 80s. :-X
I have looked around but could not find most of my postings (which as you pointed out, stopped a long time ago - short for myself).
I tried to make heads or tails from the posting to date on the Amos sisters (who had left Ireland and gone to Scotland, for work), who one of turned up as the married companion of a Gaffigan that went on to San Francisco. In any event, it did turn me on to a little more research into my past.
This Gaffigan had a distict past, and for the life of himself stated for all to know he was a Scot - not an Irishman. Actually, he was a San Franciscan even though he wasn't born there. There were scads of northern Irish that gravitated to San Francisco, even as youngsters that had lost their fathers in Scotland.
But that is just a bit of digression. :P
I am still wondering just what happened to my posting of the MacCarroll connection to Eskra, by way of a few stops in San Francisco. But we shall make it due for a while and maybe I will return to these boards.
Jim Carroll
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;D Hello, I have been off of these boards for a considerable amount of time - but now, hopefully, I am returning to see if there is anything that might ??? shed some light on my ancestry.
For those in the past that helped me understand I want to thank them profusely.
Regarding my Agnes Gaffigan, one thing that I would point out is that the census material from The City (which we from there call it) show Agnes with an A. That would be indicative of the Amos background, and not her actual name. It should be Agnes Bridget Gaffigan.
There was some mystery regarding her marriage to Michael Joseph McCarroll (who sometimes dropped the "Mc") which took place in Dundalk, County Louth, Northern Ireland (which at the time you could drop the "northern"). This took place in July 1912.
Michael (or Mickey, as he was sometimes called) had been a resident of San Francisco since 1899; he had up to the time of his marriage been a merchant with his brother Thomas in his grocer's store . The question has been asked, and no one has an answer to it - why had the two of them gotten married in Dundalk at the Cathedral.
I do not have an answer, but a possible explanation.
Patrick, called the Yank, was another brother that traveled extensively between the area of Eskragh to visit his mother and siblings. In addition to that, Mickey had also traveled back to the homeland and there is some evidence that he had landed in Liverpool in 1908. There may have been a transcriber error in that his age at that time was 39,while his age then was only 29. His occupation was saloon keeper.
We move a bit to the marriage of Mickey and Agnes Bridget Gaffigan. It seems that Patrick passed away (we know not how) in 1912. What was significant was his stone at the Eskragh cemetery was in close proximity to the family stone (last seen in 1982, personally), but not with it.
Mickey, who we have not found a record of his arrival back in Ireland, might have been there at that time and seceded to take over what might have been Patricks. Or he may have just been a visitor and remained because of his mother. However, there is a rationale for the two dates being very much the same year. Michael probably sent for Agnes, because he planned to stay in Ireland rather than return to San Francisco.
We have found a record of Agnes arriving at Cobh in 1912, and it appears her occupation at that time was stenographer - which was what it was given in the 1911 census.
In any event, :-\ this may be just dreaming on my part, but there seems to be a certain logic to it.
jj.carroll
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Hi jjc,
I'm a late-comer but...
"MARY AMOS GAFFIGAN (with her sisters, ANNIE AMOS [or possibly McKEE] and ISABELLA CAMPBELL) had left to go to Scotland with her husband PATRICK GAFFIGAN. We have not located their marriage, in either Ireland or Scotland. Patrick was also born in Ireland according to records we have found. They had two children, Thomas and John Amos, who were born in Scotland. After his death she took the children and went to California to live among the two other sisters had arrived in Northern California - before 1867"
Can you tell me where in Scotland the 2 children were born & when?
What dates do you have for a window of death for Patrick & what was his c YoB please?
I have come across many variants for 'Irish' names on my travels which can make life very frustrating & costly ;)
Annie
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There was some mystery regarding her marriage to Michael Joseph McCarroll (who sometimes dropped the "Mc") which took place in Dundalk, County Louth, Northern Ireland (which at the time you could drop the "northern"). This took place in July 1912.
County Louth has never been in what is now Northern Ireland or what was/is the Province of Ulster.
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8) Annie - I have been off of these boards for at least ten years and have just returned. I am going to have a little time looking at what I have previously posted. But I recall that I had a lady that did some of the work that I cannot do, and her responses were quite good for Scotland.
The YOB (which I think is year of birth) for Patrick is not available at present, and one of the wonders we have come across in this search. Our problem is that they have been identified as Irish, but Old Man Gaffigan has always held out that they are Scots. But, having had the pleasure of meeting him, I found him to be a little strange (and that is a mouthful).
We really don't know just what the Gaffigan started out as, but even stranger is the Amos sisters. We know a lot about them in later life, but not their lineage.
;D So if you will bear with me for a while, let me see if I can find your answers.
Jim
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??? Thank you aghadowey; I guess we would not how to work these things without your input!
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:-\ Let's see now, I believe that around 1595 or 1596 Louth became part of Leinster. Prior to that time, while part of the British Pale, it was historically part of Ulster. But, even though I am a bit ancient, I wasn't around then so I really don't know if my history is correct and up to date.
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The YOB (which I think is year of birth) for Patrick is not available at present,
What census' is Patrick on in Scotland & what age is shown on each?
Annie
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:D You have gotten the juices flowing on this matter of research that you raised Rosinish.
The simple matter is to take the easy road, and say that John was born 24 May 1858 in Paisley Refrenshire (and leave it at that, because there is good background on that date). His bother Thomas was born 24 May 1856 in Coatbridge, Lankashire. Note that the dates have a similarity.
We have struggled with the Amos name, and while we have good feelings on it as far as San Francisco goes - it was not easy to find this Irishwoman in Scotland.
However, along comes JAP ::) a while back that came up with a clinker. No, it wasn't just that the dates duplicated each other but that there were other complicating factors.
To put it in a nutshell, he came up with evidence that seems to indicate that Mary Amos did in fact have two children: John and Thomas. They had birthdays that were similar to those previously reported, but a little different.
This is what JAP found:
At the ScotlandsPeople site, http://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, he found:
Statutory Births, Ref 573/01 0232; 1858, Births in the Parish of High Church in the Burgh of Paisley.
(Name) MCGEOCH, John
(Born) 1858, May seventeenth, 5h 0m am, 14 Broomland Street, Paisley
(Sex) M
(Father) John McGeoch, Dealer in Cattle
(Mother) Mary McGeoch, maiden name Amos
(Informant) Mary Torbett, Her X Mark, Aunt, Present (at birth); (signed) Louis Stream(?), Registrar, Witness (i.e. to Mary's Mark) (Registered) 1858 May 20th, At Paisley, Louis Stream(?), Registrar
Note that Aunt Mary Torbett signed with her mark. As JAP noted, "perhaps she could not read and so had no idea what name the Registrar had recorded; also, perhaps she had a strong Irish accent (and the Registrar might have had a strong Scots accent!)."
This is a very interesting development in that "McGeoch" was never known to have existed prior to this. It could very well be that she assumed the name McGaffigan or Gaffigan, never letting her children know of the true name. But we just don't know, at this point.
The problem is that I have lost track of JAP in my way from this board.
Good Luck, Rosinish
There may be some of the Gaffigan Clan that would like to bury this development in the darkest part of the closet, but there may be some that would wish to track it down - if possible.
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Who is Mary with on the census' you have?
I was asking about the dates of the children & the age of Patrick on the census' to look for a death but it seems that's irrelevant now possibly?
Do you have the actual cert. for the birth of Thomas 1856?
Is the father different or is there no father named?
Although the dates are similar it seems just a coincidence unless you have other info. on Thomas?
Annie
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I struck out with all varients that I could think of for Thomas. Then I ran John's Gaffigan father, then McGeoch. I got one hit. John McGeoch 1858 — John Paisley Renfrewshire
View transcript. The problem is that I can't remember the password, or even the address that I gave them - so I can't get to the "transcript."
For Thomas I can't tell you anything, having attempted to try it here.
I will try McGeoch and marriage.
Jim
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I tried it a number of ways, but without the transcript, I am unable to lock it down.
McGeogh John — — 1854 Scotland Roman Catholic Parish Marriages - Glasgow, Lanarkshire, Scotland
this was a marriage.
Another, this time the spelling is correct:
McGeoch John — — 1855 Scotland Marriages 1561-1910 Wigtownshire, Scotland
However, the event was blank, and we don't know if that is the birth we have been working with.
But, this is followed up with birth records of:
McGeoch John 1856 — 1856 Scotland Births & Baptisms 1564-1950 Wigtownshire, Scotland
However, this was strangly accompanied with the following:
McGeoch John 1856 — 1856 Scotland Births & Baptisms 1564-1950 Wigtownshire,
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I have finally located the document that laid out the Gaffigans, in an 1861 census. It is listed as 597/13/16, page 16 of 45, ScotlandsPeoples.
It is barely visable, but it shows that Patrick was the father of the family unit, and his occupation was given as a "carter." He was 39 years old and was living at that time in in Kilmarnock, Ayershire. His wife is listed as being 28 at that time, but her name is barely visible, and her name is nearly blanked out. The two boys are barely visible in this document, but they are given as 5 years old and from Larnakshire, and John is is two years old from Renfrewshire - Paisley. ::)
This might put to rest McGeoch, but we still need to complete this search. Patrick is a mystery; Mary does not look as though this notation is correct. The boys, while they are Gaffigans at this time nothing was found that is isted for the prior five years. We shall keep on looking. ;D
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Well, I have been chasing the goose and have come up empty. ???
This time I attempted to locate the two sisters, Anne and Isabella but have struck out in every iteration that I could think of. When using the Amos (maiden name) and looking at marriages from 1849 on (and neither of them could have been around during the 1841 census, but checked it off), I looked at the marriage documents and they did not tell me anything. :-\
So, I guess I will have to put this on a shelf and attempt some other way in the future. It is apparent that the Gaffigans had it wrong and the father was not a horse trader - but a carter. :-X
Any suggestions, anyone?
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My suggestion for now would be to look back at the index entries you posted on Reply #46 & check the actual docs on scotlandspeople as the indexes you quoted won't give any details which will be on the original doc & not accessible anywhere else other than SP.
Annie
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What I've found in particular with Irish names such as McGeogh the 'gh' is pronounced as 'ff' e.g. McGeoff then coupled with an Irish accent the 'geo' sounds like 'ga' so McGoff/McGaff.
I have also noted some Irish names had a suffix such as your McGaff(y)(igan).
My 2 x g g/mother was a Cullen (in Scotland) but I've seen a suffix Cullenin for her surname.
Another name I've seen in other variants is Torbett, Tarbut, Turbert
I was helping a friend who has Gafney/McGough & Turbert in their tree all from Ireland
Annie
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;D Thank you!
In the limited time left for me :-\ and getting back to these boards, it sure helps to have a "cheering" section. And one that will make some suggestions 8) that might help us all. Reply 46 was the product of JAP and although he/she may not be on the board now, it is with pleasure that I now have the wherewithall to check out his work for whatever possibilities there may be.
I really don't think that it will accomplish anything, but to leave it hanging with some of the suggestions that you have given us.
Again, thank you.
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Well I went into the different spellings (and with some substituting for Irish brogue) as was suggested, looked at the documentation, and I must say that the Gaffigans might have missed some census, or been very lightly documented, they are "certifiable" as such. On the marriages I looked for the Amos and came up empty as the spouses go. I even went for different Goffigans, and so with John and Patrick. So, unless someone has a better suggestion I will keep this as a job done as complete as possible. 8)
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Did you try G*ff* ??
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Yes ;D and what did I get? No Thomas, but the rest of the Gaffigan Clan. Patrick, Mary, and John showed up in the 1861 census registration. :'(
I ran it with the ages, rather than by name, as in John, eliminating everything but ages 1 through 3 on the census information. I did that for each group (still no Thomas) using your asterisk's.
Using your asterisk would cost a bundle, which I do not have, were I to track each and every one that came up. For example, for John there were 263 hits in 4 categories. For Thomas, 133 in 4 categories and Thomas became a hit this time. But it wasn't anything different for the family unit.
Although it was a wild goose chase - IN THIS INSTANCE - it is a way to cross reference and look at those things that are so far away, and ancient, it should be done if you are not confident that something else will pop-up. >:(
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Well if you win the Lottery you'll know which Certs to order! ;D