RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Seamiuse on Saturday 04 September 10 18:32 BST (UK)
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Having a heck of a time locating immigration information and birth specifics on Anna. b. 26 Sept 1866. Immigrated (per 1920 census) in 1889, naturalized 1893. "She traveled to the US at age 16 alone". Father- Patrick, Mother- Mary
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Where was she living in 1920? Where did you get her birth date from?
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in 1920 She, her husband John Broderick and several children were living in the City of Willoughby, Ohio, Lake county. The date of birth was ascertained from her death cert.
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Hello Seamiuse,
Welcome To Rootschat
According to the 1920 Census Anna was 40 years old making her birth 1880 Ireland.
Anna Morris married John (Name probably mis-transcribed as John Birdenek) 29 th April 1896 Cuyahoga, Ohio.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09pn/
Is this the correct person ? ???
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I see a Ohio death certificate for Anna M. Broderick, born 26 Sep 1874 in Roscommon, daughter of Patrick and Mary Morris Roe.
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Good find Shelly. So it is the same family as the 1920 Census, the names appear in the Cleveland Necrology File - just the age thats up the creek ???
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09pp/
and John Broderick 1936
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09pq/
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I see a Ohio death certificate for Anna M. Broderick, born 26 Sep 1874 in Roscommon, daughter of Patrick and Mary Morris Roe.
Yes, this is the correct Anna and John, my GGGrandparents. Before moving from that area I visited the home in Willoughby, Ohio (just outside Cleveland) and ascertained just about everything about their lives once they got there and the children; John F, Renaldo, Katherine, Edwin, Danny, Margaret, Helen etc.
The problem I have is finding when Anna came into the USA and going back from there. Also what makes it a bit hard is that although the death cert lists her birthplace as Roscommon, the area we THINK she was from was at the time of her birth in MAYO! lol That birth cert has alluded me for years.
It is said she had one brother, unknown to us at this time.
NO WAY did Anna and John marry in Ohio. They had numerous children by the time they got to ohio and had only been in Ohio about 40yrs at the time of her death. Two children (at least) had been born in NY.
Appreciate the help folks.
Slainte!
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I have'nt managed locate a passenger list entry, the trouble is that they gave very little details at that time. Have you tried the Ireland boards to see if anyone can come up with info on Anna or her parents, sibling ???
Sláinte mhaith ;)
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I haven't Sandra. I am FAR from being very educated on this, and sources. I did however get a response from a fella in Ireland from the "Irish Ancestry Research" who indicates he located ; "the birth and baptism record of Anna. These documents tells us the full name of Anna's mother. Using this info, I was then able to search for her siblings. I can only detect one brother, and his name was not Patrick."
How/where he located this information is unknown and I'm not prepared to submit $175.00.
BTW, I am ASTOUNDED at the wealth of information now available on the internet. I started this project some 10yrs ago and everything I learned was earned by way of "shoe leather" lol. My My how things have changed.
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Just give the Ireland board a "whirl" (they have some great researchers and its free) - no-one would pay that amount surely. ??? We did have a guy a few weeks ago who had paid someone and he could hardly make contact with them after the money was handed over - so he learnt - nothing. ???
I checked the site below which has some New York City BMD records but did'nt find John F or Daniel
http://www.italiangen.org/VRECLIST.stm
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John P Was the head of the household and married to Anna.
John F (son) was born in Ohio per 1920 census and family info. Daniel, Edwin and Frances were born in NY
What "Irish board" are you referring to?
As for the cost and my hesitation; I had posted a query on the ancestry.com site and he had replied. His credentials seemed appropriate but... this IS the internet and "things happen".
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Hi Seamiuse, You are currently posting on the "USA" board, click the Forum tab at the top of the page and go down the list to the "Ireland" board and post your questions there, you may want to mention that you have already posted on USA board so they don't duplicate any searches.
Good luck ;)
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It up to you Seamiuse but I would post on Roscommon which is what you have seen written, then mention your Mayo theory when you see what response you get ??? ;)
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The family appears to be in Willoughby in the 1930 Census also. The age at first marriage given by John & Anna is consistent with a marriage 30 years prior and their oldest son is 31, so there is a chance that they married after they had a child. However, they appear to be in Buffalo, New York in the 1900 Census and they say they had been married for 5 years. In the 1900 Census, Anna's birth date is given as March 1878, and her immigration date is given as 1882. John's immigration date in the 1900 census is given as 1884 and he says he was naturalized.
The 1930 Census gives John's immigration date as 1878 and Anna's immigration date as 1890, and it says they are both naturalized. If John was already naturalized when they were married, Anna may have gotten citizenship through marriage.
Unless we have different families here, I think these people had no clue when they were born, married, or immigrated. ??? The Roscommon/Mayo thing might be explained by a townland on the border of the two counties, but the rest of this is all over the place (even compared to other confusing Irish people I've searched for.) Perhaps there was some lying to cover up a young age and/or out of wedlock births, and then the lies got confused with the facts?
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The Ohio death certificate for son John Francis Broderick lists mother Anna Morris as born in Mayo, Ireland. Considering that Anna would have been alive when that info was given, it may be more accurate than what's on her death certificate.
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The family appears to be in Willoughby in the 1930 Census also. The age at first marriage given by John & Anna is consistent with a marriage 30 years prior and their oldest son is 31, so there is a chance that they married after they had a child. However, they appear to be in Buffalo, New York in the 1900 Census and they say they had been married for 5 years. In the 1900 Census, Anna's birth date is given as March 1878, and her immigration date is given as 1882. John's immigration date in the 1900 census is given as 1884 and he says he was naturalized.
The 1930 Census gives John's immigration date as 1878 and Anna's immigration date as 1890, and it says they are both naturalized. If John was already naturalized when they were married, Anna may have gotten citizenship through marriage.
Unless we have different families here, I think these people had no clue when they were born, married, or immigrated. ??? The Roscommon/Mayo thing might be explained by a townland on the border of the two counties, but the rest of this is all over the place (even compared to other confusing Irish people I've searched for.) Perhaps there was some lying to cover up a young age and/or out of wedlock births, and then the lies got confused with the facts?
- When John F died 7-21-38 his mother Anna was the informant on the death cert and listed her place of birth as Mayo.
The copy of the 1920 census I have shows John immigrating in 1884. Anna is shown to have immigrated in 1889. Both show naturalized in 1889.
hmmm I don't have a copy of the 1930 census. I'll TRY and sort that out.
As for being exact, and word of mouth history, yes, I understand how things can be muddled. :(
below is part of John F's death cert.
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Would this help Seaimuse
1930 Census Willoughby, Lake, Ohio
John Broderick 64 Born Irish Free State. Married at age 34 years. Immigrated 1878. NA. Signalman. Steam Railway.
Anna Broderick 50 Born Irish Free State. Married at age 20 years. Immigrated 1890. NA
John F Broderick 31 Born Ohio. Labourer. Building Construction. Veteran - later
Daniel P Broderick 29 Born NY. Pressman. Rubber works
Thomas E Broderick 26 Born NY Reporter. Newspaper
Francis J Broderick 24 Born NY Emplyment Clerk.Department Store.
Helen A Broderick 22 Born Ohio Sales Lady. 5 and 10 Store
Katherine L Broderick 20 Born Ohio
Margaret M Broderick 15 Born Ohio
Ronaldo J Broderick 12 Born Ohio
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Ahhhhh I beat y'too it lol. I did some digging in m'archives and pulled out the 1930 census (what else is there t'do at 3am right?), to add it to the permanent binders I have.
Much of the information I have I ascertained while I lived in Cleveland as Willoughby is just outside th'city and was easily attainable. For th'most part all the children went to school locally so there was a large amount of historical records, all the way down to original grade cards! lol.
It astounds me that my mothers natural family was within 30 minutes of her and she never knew it, well not until I began my "discussions" with the Ohio adoption board, and won, to get her sealed adoption records opened about 15+ yrs ago. Not long into the search my mother (Born Loretta Ann) Jane passed on to a better life. To see her face whenever I discovered a new bit of information about her natural family is still etched in my mind.
In the file was I call "the original 6", which were the adoption records, two pages of notes by the caseworker AND her original birth certificate (which I was told should have been destroyed).
The "Thomas" in the 1930 census is actually "Edwin Thomas" (as seen in other census') was always referred to in life as ET. He went from a reporter in 1930 to the owner and publisher of that city's newspaper. ;D
The problem I have is going backward from willoughby and attaining;
John and Anna's marriage record, immigration records for both (still not sure where they came into the US), and naturalization info and then back to Ireland.
Ahhhh one day.... Onnnnne day it'll all fall into place.
Hence why I started a few years ago writing a bit of a manuscript/book (probably die before I ever do anything with it lol) "In my travels - A Genealogical search for our true roots". Can't finish a book without the few remaining chapters though..... (shakes head) onnnnne day... or, perhaps one of MY descendants will figure it out lol.
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Hi Seamiuse.
Co-incidentally there appears to be a thread which has been revived on Morrisroe on the Roscommon Board - probably not your line but maybe worth asking. Other researchers may have come across your Patrick and Mary Morrisroe. May even be able to look up info for you. Nothing ventured, nothing gained as they say.
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,252782.0.html
And interestingly on another older thread re Morrisroe:-
There seems to be very few people with that exact surname in Ireland - e.g. on Griffiths Valuation (1847 to 1864 ) there are a total of 12 households in all of Ireland.
Roscommon 8
Sligo 3
Mayo 1
from Slaters directories :
1870 : Patrick Morrisroe , Ballinafad, Boyle Co. Roscommon - Grocer
1881 : Morrisroe Patrick, Ballinafad, Boyle Co. Roscommon - Publican
1894 : John Morrisroe, Charlestown, Co. Mayo - Baker
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,346255.0.html
Regards
Sandra
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Thank You! Thank You!
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Hi Seamiuse,
Its a pleasure. Could be interesting. best of luck - let us know how you get on please ?
Regards
Sandra 8)
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You bet I will Sandra! I plan to be a regular user, and contributor!
I have about 400yrs of information on the Newkirk/Neikirk/Nikirk family. back in the 70's a relative of mine (on the adopted side) compiled an extensive record of that line. His name was George Ginader R.I.P., a "Who's Who in the World". George was a Master Librarian and not only traveled the world setting up/re-organizing libraries he worked on parts of the library of congress. His travels enabled him access to incredible records. I only wish he would be around now to help me in this quest! :-\ In the 70's after my adopted GF (William Adair Newkirk, son of Cornelius) passed on, my mother donated back to Schenectady the ORIGINAL Schenectady Patent that had hung in his study for years.
Ahhhh the history we all hold........
Onward I go!
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Hi Seamiuse,
Brilliant. Luv the ears !! Yes, I guessed you had spent numerous years researching. Do you think that your Patrick Morrisroe was a cousin to Bishop Patrick Morrisroe 19 Feb 1867 ?
Not sure Seamiuse is your name - so if it isn't would yours have 5 letters in it ?
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Hi Seamiuse,
Brilliant. Yes, I guessed you had spent numerous years researching. Do you think that your Patrick Morrisroe was a cousin to Bishop Patrick Morrisroe 19 Feb 1867 ?
Not sure Seamiuse is your name - so if it isn't would yours have 5 letters in it ?
Ah Sandra, y'do your research well. I believe strongly that Bishop Patrick was a close cousin, or brother to Anna's father as Anna had only one brother and we are told (by a fella on ancestry.com who supposedly found her family records but wants $200 for it. He say's the brothers name is not Patrick. Grrrr what I would do (aside from shell out several hundred $) t'get hold of her birth cert, or family info.
We have a letter from Anna to Bishop Patrick dated early 1900's telling him of her safe travel to the US. A later note (barely readable from age) by another relative who mentions Bishop Patrick as "a close relation" he will be visiting shortly while he travels to Ireland at the time of a family gathering.
As for the "5 letters" you are right, although the given name I haven't been called that for many many many years.
"In my travels" I have had much help and been provided pictures, manuscripts etc from Bishop Patrick's home Diocese of Achonry, Bishop Flynn and his archivists.
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Hi Seamiuse,
Hokey dokey. Thought I'd made the right connection - saves me alot of typing. Quite enjoyed reading through it all this morning. Seems to quite a few who have a cousin connection - no doubt you have those well documented as well.
Sandra 8)
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documented cousins? Nope, I fling em aside at present in search of the only ones I need lol. I'm as bad as m'dwarf pinscher diggin dirt! lol
Morrisroe is pretty distinct to the area of Ballaghadereen, Roscommon and Charlestown, Mayo ... we're all related SOMEhow! lol Sometimes the difficulty becomes WHEN you're looking for someone as the county line changed mid 1800's >:(
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Thats a shame - you must determine the specific parish or townland from which your ancestor came - obviously made difficult, primarily due to the destruction of the Record Tower in Dublin Castle in the early 18th century and the disastrous 1922 fire in the Ireland Public Record Office, which nearly obliterated civil records. However, you have a few clues about that which is more than most people seem to have. According to the Griffith Valuation 1847 - 1864 there were'nt that many Morrisroe families in Roscommon and Mayo
We all have different ways of working but for me, if you can't make progress one way then you need to find an alternative, casting a wider net and looking for siblings, cousins, friends, and neighbors. Like most communities at that time families stuck together in groups. The goal is to get down to the specific townland in Ireland, including parishes, baronies, poor law unions, dioceses, probate districts, and counties. May even end up as a One Name Study to accomplish your aims and even then it may still be a "proverbial brick wall".
Wishing you all the best with your continuing research.
Regards
Sandra
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Thats a shame - you must determine the specific parish or townland from which your ancestor came - obviously made difficult, primarily due ...... disastrous 1922 fire in the Ireland Public Record Office, which nearly obliterated civil records.
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not true, but a common enough mis-understanding...
no civil BMD records were damaged in any way during the events of the civil war and they are fully intact. The records destroyed included census records, and Church of Ireland parish records. Catholic records were unharmed as these were not considered state records (Church of Ireland was..) so had not been sent to Dublin for safe keeping.
Shane
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Only quote from research material I may have read. Hence:-
http://genealogy.about.com/cs/ireland/a/irish_genealogy_2.htm
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Index to Irish Civil BMD records is available on familysearch - see : link (http://search.labs.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#p=collectionDetails&c=fs%3A1408347)
This covers BMDs from the start of civil registration - 1864 for births and deaths, from 1845 for non-Catholic marriages (e.g. Church of Ireland, registry office etc), and 1864 on for all marriages. Certs can be ordered from the GRO using the index references.
Knowing the district or county can be a great help in narrowing down the search for civil records, especially with common names. For earlier details parish records are required, and to research these the essential details are the family religion, and as detailed a location as you can establish - ideally parish or townland.
Shane
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Hi Shane,
I am sure Seamiuse will look at the links if he has'nt already. This has been an ongoing project for him for some considerable time and he had many pieces on forums etc.,
This thread will perhaps explain the information Seamuise would currently like - which at the moment is "live"
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=481045.0
Regards
Sandra
http://www.mayo-ireland.ie/MyoAlive/Mag0696/ABishop.htm
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there's actually another thread on the same family which I posted a response to a little earlier.
Anna Morrisroe & John Broderick (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,481042.msg3405850.html#msg3405850)
Summary of details located on Anne I posted in the other thread :
Name: Anne Morrisroe
Birth Date: 26 Sep 1874
Birthplace: Ballaghadereen, Mayo
Father's Name: Patrick Morrisroe
Mother's Name: Mary Morrisroe
Reference Number: 149
src: familysearch extracted civil record
Shane
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there's actually another thread on the same family which I posted a response to a little earlier.
Anna Morrisroe & John Broderick (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,481042.msg3398075.html#msg3398075)
Shane
That thread now locked and any replies can be posted here to avoid duplication.
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The closest possibility I see for John Broderick's baptism is this one :
Baptism of John Broder of Knockanassig - 20 May 1866 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/46b4c91808363) (from www.irishgenealogy.ie)
It could be a mistranscribed surname.. or a variation of Broderick.
Father's name is Daniel and the baptism is about a week after the date of birth you have. The parish is Listowel / RC (Kerry)
Shane
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On the same website there's also a marriage of the parents for that John Broder :
Marriage of Daniel Broder and Ellen Buckley - 28 February 1865 (http://churchrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/details/96fa9c2007607)
The records for that parish at the time are very basic, and there's no parents, and just the date, witnesses and a single residence/townland included.
Shane
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Just for the record... this is driving me bonkers. So many dates, discrepancies and people I'm losin it. Can't keep it all straight lol.
There is such an age difference in between the
information provided by anna ( his wife)on the death cert. when her husband dies in 1936 .... and that of the census information. What, whoever was giving the info for the census was bonkers? in 1920, 30 and (I found the 1900 but only one child is listed (john) the information for him matches correctly but John and anna's are like 7 yrs off?
What would YOU go by, death cert information of whats on the census?
Notice the years of immigration are very different on every census.... ouch, who's got a tylenol? lol
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Hello Seamiuse,
You do get discrepancies but I must admit I have'nt seen anything like the amount this family has thrown up through the Census. Even so it does look as if you have the right family all the way through. You are missing the marriage details - but I still wonder if the Ohio marriage could be them and they have gone from Ohio to New York and back to Ohio ???
Was quite surprised the Ireland thread was locked and directed here when you have most of the US information and it is the Roscommon and Mayo links you need.
Plod on - never say never !!
Regards
Sandra ;)
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Hello Seamiuse,
You do get discrepancies but I must admit I have'nt seen anything like the amount this family has thrown up through the Census. Even so it does look as if you have the right family all the way through. You are missing the marriage details - but I still wonder if the Ohio marriage could be them and they have gone from Ohio to New York and back to Ohio ???
Was quite surprised the Ireland thread was locked and directed here when you have most of the US information and it is the Roscommon and Mayo links you need.
Plod on - never say never !!
Regards
Sandra ;)
ahhhhhh no worries Sandra, "fervent in my pursuits" as the Bishop Patrick would say is firmly implanted in m'bones lol.
you hit th'nail on the head with the moving.
in this order of birth they were;
John F (the son) 1898 was born in ohio
Daniel 1900 in NY
Edwin T 1902 Ohio
Francis J 1905 NY on several ref's but known to be Gerard, Pa)
Helen 1907 Ohio
Katherine 1909 Ohio
Margaret 1915 Ohio
wait, did I miss something? marriage details? I musta missed that. Do tell (or better yet, SHOW! lol)
I was a bit surprised by the lock as well as depending on the time, what was Mayo, became Roscommon lol
still haven't found them coming in to the US yet, but I'll get em lol
onward I go!
Woooooooooooooosh
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I was a bit surprised by the lock as well as depending on the time, what was Mayo, became Roscommon lol
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I mentioned on the other thread on the Roscommon board about the detail on the registration district listed on the birth for Anna -
Castlereagh is the registration district and this covers areas in both counties Mayo and Roscommon. Ballaghderreen town is in Co. Mayo but quite close (c 5km) to the border with Co. Mayo. The location given on the extracted record above may the a sub-registration district, rather than the town of the same name.
If you order the birth cert this would include a more detailed place of birth and residence for the family, which would pinpoint the location for you. An rural address would probably consist of a townland name.
Shane
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Reply 3 mentioned a marriage in Ohio of Anna Morris to John Birdenek 29 April 1896 ???
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09pn/
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Update - Ann and James' Civil Birth Records have been found. Now, t'go one more generation back.