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General => Armed Forces => World War Two => Topic started by: corkie37 on Monday 06 September 10 10:09 BST (UK)
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hi
I am trying to find out more about the camp my grandfather was held in for five years. The area was Blechhammer in poland. the camp was BAB21. have been told it was a forced labour camp. My gran never knew if he was alive or dead for about three years. Was that normal ? I have sent for his service records but until i get them I'll not know what they contain. I would be grateful for any information.
He was in the Highland light infantry 9th bt.
regards lesley :)
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Hi Lesley and Welcome to Rootschat !!!
You might find this link to Tracing PoW's (http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:oYN9LRh9nQcJ:www.iwm.org.uk/upload/pdf/famhist-pow2010-4.pdf+TNA+POW&hl=en&gl=uk&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgQu0xHM4UfGmoqx2NOpoJsDUuqMx-XIDN84QTGjnpA1haKiPMxvRX000jVwpGj8rBTv3i-KznDzoEWKU4pTv4I9KS42cB2zgaQgr4hWsOi9znOFFQ3XBckc6WLBSBMCZVpWoS1&sig=AHIEtbQ6rdAI2lafFLfr881iGYDxH6h0JQ) helpful !
Wendi :)
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Can you give us a name Lesley
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Hi My grandfather was George Hill
regards Lesley
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Lesley,
checked the 1944 lists and he was at BAB21 at that time also POW No. 5504
You could check at Kew to see if he made a Report when Liberated WO344/144/1 is the File. The majority of ex POW made a report but not all.
I also have a Report dated 15/3/45 that says; "The 1193 POW in BAB 21 had been ordered to Stalag 344 Lamsdorf and then were to proceed further. No final destination is given". St 344 was evacuated on the 22nd and 23rd of January on a Westward march.
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thanks for your info and pointers
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have been told it was a forced labour camp.
Just wanted to say that Bau und Arbeits Battalions were not forced labour, even though the work wasn't pleasent. Under the terms of the Geneva Convention on the Treatment of POWs, enlisted men could be made to work, as long as it was not directly in work that would aid the enemy's war production ( a rather arbitory term seeing as in a total war everything was, in some way, war production).
Many men chose to work because it was better than sitting in a camp, and also in some case it entitled them to a few perks. And also the possibility of meeting civilians, and even the possibility of escape.
NCOs and Officers were not required to work. Hardly any officers chose to but NCOs made decisions individually or on a camp by camp basis.
As for BAB 21, have you seen the photos on:
http://www.pegasusarchive.org/pow/pSt_BAB21.htm
There are a number of other sites that can be found via google that have mention of the camp and/or individuals held there
K
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thanks yes I've found many sites useful.
the more i dig the better informed i am becoming
only started looking into Grandfathers military history so i have still got to sort through heresay and family rumour, as grandfather died when i was very young and he never spoke much about his time as a pow. which i can understand.
regards Lesley
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Hi. My father in law was also at BAB21, I have extensive research on the camp along with many photos, I am in touch with two surviving inmates, I also have details on the march, which began on the 21st of Jan 1945, they had to return to camp, due to deep snow, they could not get through to the camp at Riegersfeldt, they left again the next day, they were liberated from Moosburg by Patton, 29th April 1945.
If I can help in any way, please let me know.
Regards. K
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hi all
im looking for any info regarding William j heckford who was in the navy he was a pow ww2 in bab21 im not to sure where to start looking
kind regards
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What was his rank in the Navy? Was he Merchant Navy or Royal Navy?
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hi
all I know he was ab p/ssx28765 royal navy
kind regards
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have been told it was a forced labour camp.
Just wanted to say that Bau und Arbeits Battalions were not forced labour, even though the work wasn't pleasent.
Prisoner of War working parties WERE forced labour at the point of a gun. They could be working anything from 8 to 18 hours a day on as little as 250 grams of bread - usually erstatz bread made from potato starch and extended with sawdust - and a litre of soup a day. Most of these pow would rather have had nothing to do than have been forced to work for the enemy as unpaid labour slaving for the Nazi regime. Many were forced to continue working even though they were sick or injured. At the end of the war many of these POW's returned home having lost half of their pre war body weight.
BAB 20 at Reigersfeld was one of several labour camps in the area of Blechhammer in Ober Silesia. The POW's in BAB 20 were worked in the area of Heydebreck, also known as Blechhammer South, where they were used as forced labour to build factories that were to produce the fuel of benzene. A POW at BAB 20 named Joseph Gribben was shot by a German guard, Gerfreiter Sontag, on 27th March 1942 for refusing to work as he was unable to lift and move a heavily laden wheelbarrow - National Archives WO30912240 (598478 )
The German government known as the Weimar Republic 1919 - 1933 was a signatory to the 1929 Geneva Convention. However the Nazi regime did not recognise the obligations of the Weimar Republic. Following the war SHAEFE - Supreme Headquarters Allied Expeditionary Force in Europe and the International Red Cross found little evidence of adherence to the convention by the Nazi regime towards POW's.
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Here are my father's memories of BAB21 written years later. It includes his capture in 1940 near Abbeville and escape in Dec 1944
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thank you all for your help
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thank you all for your help
A statement by a former prisoner of war in regard to BAB 21 that was used at the Nuremberg trials in relation to ill treatment of prisoners of war, and may be of interest around your research.
" Hauptman Spaht was the Commanding Officer, and he was in command of 2 Company Guards. The guards of the camp frequently beat up pow's for no reason at all. It was almost a daily occurrence - rifle butts, kicking, striking. Marine Tuck was badly beaten. If complaints were made to him (Hauptman Spaht) he always supported the guards. Prisoners from sick bay were forced to leave their beds and work."
There is also an article on 'Pegasus Archive ' on the air raid of 2nd December 1944 that hit POW camps BAB 21 & E3, and resulted in deaths and injuries to POW's.
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Hi drdl,
Very interesting account, along with the recurring theme of being short of food, and the lice, which are common features in most testaments.
This is actually the first account that I have seen about BAB 21 and the area of Blechhammer that does not mention the allied bombing of the area, which happened from 7th July 1944 through to the end of 1944.
This is not a criticism:
May he have been mistaken with the passage of time, when he says that they set off on the march away from BAB 21, and especially mentioning over 1000 pow's setting out, from the area in December 1944, as BAB 21 and the other camps at Blechhammer were evacuated at the end of January 1945, mostly on 21st and 22nd January. Blechhammer was taken by the Russians on 26th January.
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Yes, it is certainly possible that he got the dates wrong, as he wrote down his memories many years later. He mentions in one 1944 entry that the expected bombing had not begun. Regarding the Long March, he says the entire camp was marched out in Dec 1944 but then inexplicably marched back and then marched out again the next day. He and his friend stayed on in Dorf Lager and a Russian patrol arrived a few days later, which as you say was late January - so his dates don't fit.
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Hi drdl,
Ok. This may be of interest.
In some testaments by pow's who were at BAB 21, they mention that they set out on 21st January 1945, but due to the deep snow, they could not reach the camp at Reigersfeld (this camp being BAB 20 at Reigersfeld, which was approx 5 miles distant in a westerly direction) and had to return to BAB 21. They then set out again on 22nd January.
If you have not seen it, there is an interesting report on the 'Pegasus Archive' in relation to BAB 21 being hit in a bombing raid on Saturday 2nd December 1944, in which a number of pow's were killed and others injured.
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I have a blog on BAB21 with lots of information and photos. The blog address is. https://knewmanf.blogspot.com