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Beginners => Family History Beginners Board => Topic started by: TKEJ on Saturday 11 September 10 20:28 BST (UK)
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I've found Stephen FRIER (b. 1790) married to Antoinette (b.1802 in Paris) in the censuses, but I can't find any record of their marriage. He was born in Barrow-on-Soar in Leics, and lived most of his life in Grimston, Leics, but I cannot trace Antoinette. Any one help?
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Hi,
There is also a Stephen Frier & Antoinette who baptised 3 children at Tipton Staffordshire between 1825 & 1828 but could not find a marriage there.
Sharon
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Yes - these are the same ones I'm looking for and it's my Gx3 Great grandfather - Henry Frier - who was one of those christened in Tipton. I wonder whether they married in Paris?
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Hello! Any idea what his occupation was? Pat
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Unfortunately no.
I could not find their marriage anywhere.
Sharon
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The 1841 census has him as an ag lab, the 51 census as a pensioner and fishmonger, & the 61 census as a chelsea pensioner and haberdasher.
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There is a baptism on the new pilot site (pilot.familysearch.org) for Thomas, son of Stephen and Anoinette Friar in Lutterworth, Leicestershire on 03 April 1822. Doesn't mean it is your couple, but possible? Names were often spelled differently according to who was doing the writing - they just wrote it as they heard it, and assumed it was correct. Have you searched alternative spellings?
The other thing I'm wondering, and I don't want to quibble, is that I thought Chelsea Pensioners had to have had a career in the Army or Navy? Are you sure your entry in 1861 is the same man?
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This was during the reign of George 3rd ...I`m sure he had soldiers fighting all over the world...so Stephen Frier could quite easily have been a soldier from 16 to 30...and possibly met Antoinette in France or even Belgium....battle of Waterloo was in 1815 in Belgium...and English soldiers must have taken over France a little later and stayed for a few years...she could have been a 14/15 yr old - it was an acceptable age for marriage then....he could have came out of the army and went to work on a farm with his new `child bride` ...allan :)
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Thanks allan, good to have the background correct. I'd seen the occupations in the '41 and '51 without registering that Stephen would have had quite a working life prior to that.
Added: Based on your comment, I just looked at the Waterloo medal list, and there is a listing for a Stephn Freer
The listing says:
Private.
2nd Battalion 95th Regiment of Foot.
Captain G. Miller's Company.
Does anyone know how one could search the records of the Royal Hospital at Chelsea to see if TKEJ's Stephen Frier could be the same gentleman?
That's the first time I've looked at the Waterloo Medal rolls, because I've never had any ancestors who might have taken part. If it is him, what an ancestor to have, with the possibility of service in the Peninsular War, or even America.
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That`s good info Maggie....Penninsular war was the lead up to Waterloo so that is a huge possibility.1802 1814 in Portugal and Spain
..America was late 1700`s so it`s a possible but Stephen would have been very young...in fact...just googled it and it finished in 1783...he would have been 13 if born 1790 as stated.
..and for the record...on igi it has Stephen b 1796 married to Antionette b 1802...so if he was born 1796 he wouldn`t have been in American war of Independence...allan ;)
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Allan, I was thinking of the small force that was sent out at the end of the Peninsular War. War of 1812 - Washington, New Orleans etc..
Many of those just made it back to Belgium in time to take part in Waterloo. Absolutely no reason to presume that Stephen Freer / Friar / Frier was one but it's a fascinating part of history.
The story of Harry Smith (who ended up a General, having married a Spanish lady during the Peninsular War) or Johnny Kincaid (both Rifle Brigade) give a huge amount of background and so (please don't discount her) does Georgette Heyer.
General Sir Brian Horrocks always said that her novel The Infamous Army gave a clearer picture of the Battle of Waterloo that most military tomes
Added: in case anyone is interested, the books I was referring to are: The Autobiography of Lieutenant-General Sir Harry Smith, Baronet of Aliwal on the Sutlej, and Tales of the Rifle Brigade: "Adventures in the Rifle Brigade" AND "Random Shots from a Rifleman" by Sir John Kincaid
Sorry TKEJ, I'm digressing, I do hope the Stephn Freer on the Waterloo Medal list turns out to be yours. I've no idea how to search the Royal Hospital records to see if he would match up, but if nobody turns up here with the knowledge, it might be worth asking for that expertise on the Armed Forces Board - there are a lot of very knowledgeable people there. If you do, refer back to this post so nobody is duplicating.
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hi there,i too am researching stephen and antoinette frier,they r my 5th great grandparents and im desperate to find out more about antoinette,i cant even find out her surname!!!!i would love to know about her famliy and the french heritage.
i noted that tkej said that henry frier is their 3x great grandparents well im descended from henry too only he is my 4th great grandfather.
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Tracietyson79, welcome to rootschat.
This thread was started by TKEJ and just in case they don't see the new comment, I'll send a PM (personal message) letting them know you have posted. You need to make 3 normal postings on the site before you can send any PMs so that may save you some time.
Good luck with all your research, I hope the two of you are able to share notes and fill in some of the gaps
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Hi Tracey,
Sounds like we're related somehow. My line comes via Henry's son Ezra, to his son Herbert Henry, to his son Peter, to me!
I've contacted the Leicester & Rutland Family History Society to see if they'd got any records from the Wesleyan Methodist Chapel in Grimstone of Stephen & Antoinette's marriage, but they tell me there wouldn't have been any registers around that time as Hardwicke's Marriage Act made marriages in Methodist chapels illegal until 1937, so our only chance of finding Antoinette's surname is via their marriage certificate. My suspicion is he married her in France on the way back from fighting in the Battle of Waterloo, but I've no basis for this.
Would love to know how we're related!
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hi there,so good to hear from u,ive been doing my tree a while,its growing nicely on ancestry so i have ezra,herbert henry who i have a photo of and peter on my tree,peter is my 2nd cousin 3x removed,so would that make us 3rd cousins or 2nd cousins 4x removed???will have to check that out as i havent done past peter and do not know who he married etc.i only happened to come across this website when i typed stephen and antoinette into google out of desperation and who knew i would find a relative!!:) i am descended from ezras brother thomas william frier who moved to nottingham,there are still friers living in nottingham today.i hope somewhere between us we can find some information about antoinette as its really very frustrating!!
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My tree ("Frier family tree" owned by tkej - don't look at the tkej1 one, it's out of date) is also on Ancestry. I wonder - did you pick up the photo of Herbert Henry from my tree - it's the one of him holding his grandson (my cousin) in a red babygrow? I've just let my subscription to Ancestry expire so I don't think I'll be able to view your tree. I'd picked up the photo of Thomas William Frier which I think you submitted (but I got it from J Freeman's tree). Let me know if you get any further with Antoinette - I'll do likewise.
regards,
Tony
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i think i got the photo from ur tree or jan freeman sent me it,yes i supplied jan with some of the frier photos esp the ones from my end.i will have a look at ur newer tree if its public.yes i will keep u updated if i find anything,i have access to the foreign records but cant find anything for love or money!!!
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Hi All
I’m currently working on a project involving the Churchyard in Grimston and have turned up some quite detailed information on Corporal Stephen Frier’s life in the village (it is where I live), military service (lots - fascinating!) plus a few other family bits and pieces which you might find useful. I also have documents relating to his wife’s will. If anyone who has posted in this thread is still interested, please let me know.
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Would be hugely interested to learn more about what you've found Vita P. visited Grimstone a while ago and thought I'd thoroughly covered the graveyard and not found any Friers.
Regards. Tony Frier
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How nice to hear from someone who has ancestors and an interest in my village!
I'll pick through the mysteries and get back to you properly when I've discovered more detailed answers but in the meantime here are some of the definite facts I have regarding Stephen Frier.
According to documentary evidence of his own recollections, Stephen served at the Battle of Waterloo and was there struck in the face by a bayonet. He also sustained an injury to his leg.
He then went on to serve under Colonel Dugald Little Gilmour in Brussels. He was wounded in the head during the Battle of Salamanca and formed part of the storming party at the Siege of St Sebastian.
After these (and other) engagements and subsequent to his discharge, Stephen Frier went to serve in the household of Colonel Norcot in Paris.
As for graves in Grimston with no stone or marker and non-conformists - just don't get me started! grrrr! >:(
I hope that you find the foregoing useful and interesting; I have thoroughly enjoyed finding it.
Best regards,
Vita
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Many thanks Vita. I must admit I'd hit a brick wall with Stephen Frier, but fascinating to learn what you've found. What format do his recollections take - letters, diary? And how have you come by them? I can definitely see another visit up to Grimston coming up soon! I wonder if it is when he is in Norcot's service that he got to meet Antoinette?
Regards, Tony
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Well what a small world TKEJ - I've just put the phone down to Jonathon's Mum who I now know to be your aunt Audrey!
I need to do a bit more poking around to confirm but suspect strongly that Stephen and Antoinette met in Paris when he was serving as a butler in the household of Colonel Norcot.
Regards,
Vita
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I note there are a number of trees for Stephen and Antoinette and a few of them state that Antoinette was Antoinette Pierson b.23/7/1802 Paris, dau. of a Jean Baptiste Pierson and Marie Marguerite Percheron - 3 siblings being Louise Pierette b.23/5/1801 Paris, Suzanne b.27/7/1812 Paris and Victor Marie b.6/10/1820 Paris. I cannot see any real sources so have no idea how a connection has been made or even if it is accurate.
Annette
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Yes. I've seen that as well but there's nothing to back up her being Pierson. We need ( obviously) to find Stephen and Antoinette' marriage record, but I'm struggling with that.
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Small world indeed Vita. How extraordinary you know Audrey. She is my dad's cousin but always called her Aunty. I know Jonathan is also into family trees and we share a lot of info.
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Yes. I've seen that as well but there's nothing to back up her being Pierson. We need ( obviously) to find Stephen and Antoinette' marriage record, but I'm struggling with that.
Since it seems almost certain that this took place in Paris, and marriages for that time/place are not available online, I don't know how you can find this out.
Annette
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Hi Vita
Hope you're doing ok. Just wondering if you managed to uncover anything more about Stephen and Antoinette Frier. I got really excited when you emailed out of the blue last year and was really hopeful I could trace Antoinette's family. Regards Tony