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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Cardiganshire => Topic started by: Dannemois on Sunday 12 September 10 15:40 BST (UK)
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On the 1861 census for Llanddewi Brefi Thomas Griffiths was head of the household, aged 42, grocer and draper, place of birth, Gwynfil. Wife Hannah [35] and daughter Elizabeth [9] both born Gorwydd were also listed. Sisters Catherine Lewis [15] and Jane Lewis [13] my great aunts, were employed as house servants.
Out of curiosity; can some one please do a look-up on the 1851 and possible the 1871 census for Thomas Griffiths and family.
Thanks in advance
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No luck finding Thomas/Hannah together in '51.
FreeBMD has the marriage of Thomas Griffiths, Sep 1851, Tregaron, 27 29. On the same page is a Hannah Lewis.
Might this be your Thomas & Hannah - or have you already established they were together at the time of the '51 Census?
Not sure about Jane and Catherine being Hannah's sisters ie
1851 Census
David Lewis, Head, 59, Weaver, St Peters Carm
Mary Anne Lewis, Wife, 36, Dressmaker, Llanddewibrefi
Mary Lewis, Dau, 13, App Dressmaker, "
Hannah Lewis, Dau, 10 , "
David Lewis, Son, 7, "
Catherine Lewis, Dau, 5 "
Jane Lewis, Dau, 3, "
Micah Lewis, Son, 11mths "
Charles James, Lodger, Widower, Chelsea Pensioner, Llandilo
1851 Census HO107 2487 274 14
Micah Lewis, head, 59, Shopman, Town, Carms
Elizabeth Lewis, Wife, 58, Town Carms
Hannah Lewis, Dau, 26, llanddewibrefi
Richard Joseph, Serv, 37, Llanfarddydegau
William Joseph, G/Son, 11, Llanddewibrefi
John Joseph, G/Son, 8, "
Margaret Jones, Serv, 28, "
Hannah, age 26, fits the Hannah married to Thomas in 1861. Hannah, aged 10, living with Jane and Catherine in 1851 would not appear to be the Hannah married to Thomas and living with Jane and Catherine in 1851..
Any thoughts?
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That is a very good possible for Hannah daughter of Micah & Elizabeth Lewis and I have to agree it is more like a very good probable. Catherine and Jane Lewis had a younger brother named Micah Lewis and their grandfather could possible be Micah Lewis. This would make Hannah a relative to the girlsWell done, no doubt I would have got to searching Hannah at some point, a result sooner than expected.
What chances of finding Thomas Griffiths on the 1851 census for Llanddewi Brefi ???
Many thanks
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Possibility?
1851 Census HO107 2487 282 28
Elinor Griffiths, Head, Widow, 60, Llanddewibrefi
Thomas Griffiths, Son, Unm, 30, Cattle Drover, Llanddewibrefi
Address Tanyrallt
In view of Thomas' occupation in '61 (grocer/draper) checked historical Directories 1850 - 1860. Couldn't find a Thomas Griffiths but there were several Lewis' - did he marry into a shop owning family?
Slater's Directory Glos...Wales 1859
Lewis, Anna Betha, grocer, draper and saddler, Llanddewi, Tregaron
Lewis, John, draper, ironmonger etc, Llanddewi, Tregaron
Slater's Directory Glos...Wales 1868
Lewis, Betha & Son, Grocers and drapers, Llanddewi, Tregaron
Lewis, John, grocers and drapers, Llanddewi, Tregaron
regards
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The occupation of the Lewis's in the line I'm researching were 'weavers' so I can't throw any light on whether Thomas Griffiths married into business. Its amazing really Llanddewi Brefi is pretty small when it comes to population and one would think tracing someone in that area would be simple enough....wrong, there are just so many with the family name of Lewis, and Edwards, I really pull my hair out on times.
Would the 1861 census details give any clues ???
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1861
Mary Anne Lewis, Head, Widow, 45 Dressmaker, Gorwydd
Micah Lewis, Son, 10, Gorwydd
Charles Lewis, son, 8, Gorwydd
Penuwch, Llanddewi Brefi, Gorwydd
1861 Rg09 4203 88 2
John Lewis, Head, 45, farmer 40 Acres, St Peters Carms
Margaret Lewis, wife, 46, Llanddewibrefi
Margaret Lewis, Dau, 17, "
David Evan Lewis, Son, 12, "
Thomas Lewis, Son, 9, "
John Lewis, Son, 4, "
Micah Lewis, Son 2, "
Beilimadeg (?), Garth and Ystrad
1841 HO107 1376 15/7 7
Micah Lewis, 45, Shopkeeper, NOT born County
Elizabeth Lewis, 45, NOT born County
John Lewis, 20, NOT born County
Hannah Lewis, 16, born Cardiganshire
Margaret Morgan, 25, H.S, born Cardiganshire.
Address Llanddewibrefi Gorwydd
Can't find David Lewis in 1841 (too many Davids!).
Both David Lewis (weaver) and Micah Lewis (shopkeeper) originally hail from Carmarthenshire. The 1851 Census has David from "St Peters" and Micah from "Town, Carms" - brothers possibly?
John Lewis above is also from St Peters and the 1841 Census has a John and Micah together.
Possibilities?
regards
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Gosh you have truly put some time into this and I can not thank you enough. Looking at the entry 1841 for Micah Lewis, shopkeeper with daughter Hannah. Could this be the answer to your earlier question "did Thomas Griffiths marry into business"
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Dannemois
Yes.
My initial post identified Micah, Shopman and daughter Hannah, age 26 on the '51 Census. Is this the Hannah that Thomas married - if he married a Lewis?
If he did marry this Hannah Lewis, and there are other Lewis' living with him in 1861, is this a coincidence or are they family eg cousins to Hannah?
Something to ponder
regards
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Sorry for the delay in coming back, I have been trying to locate the population figures for the area during the time. From my knowledge the whole area is made up of farming communities and each area had a small population. I would presume many inhabitants lived their whole lives in the locality other than those who moved during the industrial period. My grandfather David Edwards was one who moved and in later years, half the household, recorded on the census returns were listed as being born in Llanddewi Brefi while the other half in Lancaster.
I believe your thoughts of cousins etc living in the same household on the 1861 census is a valid one; and in my experience, not unusual for those difficult times.
Could I ask for your help in locating Thomas Griffiths & Hannah on the 1871?
Best Regards
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Not having any success finding either in 1871.
FreeBMD has the deaths of a
Hannah Griffiths, Mar 1864, Tregaron, 11b 69
Thomas Griffiths, Mar 1871, Tregaron, 11b 59, age 58 (d.o.b 1813)
This Thomas' age at death, 58, doesn't quite tie in with his 1861 Census age/d.o.b of 42/1819
regards
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If these are the persons we have been tracking then a good reason why I can not find them on the 1881.
My sincere thanks for all your help
Best regards, Roy
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Hi,
I believe we are related through the Micah and Elizabeth Lewis. Their grand-daughter Elizabeth Griffiths (daughter to Thomas and Hannah Griffiths) is my great great great grandmother. There are gravestones to Micah & Elizabeth Lewis, Thomas and Elinor Griffiths and Hannah in the graveyard of St Davids in Llandewi-Brefi.
Thomas Griffiths looks as though he moved to Lampeter, an unemployed labourer in 1871 one with second wife Ann a dressmaker. It is possible that Elizabeth was a servant/nurse in the household of James Jones, currier, High Street, Lampeter in the 1871 census. She later moved to Yorkshire on 18 January 1875 she married William Goldthorpe in Rothwell, a nailmaker.
I have written down the script of the gravestones if you are interested (some in welsh). Be pleased to hear from you of any other details you have gathered since this thread.
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Hi
Yes please, I would appreciate a copy of the script off the gravestone.
I am more than happy to share information but first I should explain; I am not related, I have carried out the research of the Edward/Lewis family history for a dear friend of 40 years and more, namely Robert Edwards, who is a direct link of Micha & Elizabeth. There are several rootchatters with direct family links and if you wish I can pass on their details also.
Look forward to further correspondence.
Regards, Roy
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hi
I hope I haven't frightened you off; I really am interested in the gravestone details and would welcome sharing info on the family.
Regards, Roy
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Hi
I have just made contact via a PM [personal message] with regards to Micha Lewis.
Hope to hear from you
Roy
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Hi Roy, sorry not to have replied to your messages. Thanks for sending another mail to remind me ! I have had computer trouble so haven't been so easily able to access all the info.
Hannah Griffiths (nee Lewis) "The time is short
sacred
to the memory of
Hannah daughter of
Micah and Elizabeth Lewis
Shopkeeper in this village who
died February 19 1864
aged 39 years
Farewell how affecting the word
How painful the thought we must part
But still has she sleeps in the Lord
It gives some relief to the heart."
Micah & Elizabeth Gravestone
"To the memory of Elizabeth Lewis
wife of Micah Lewis shopkeeper
in this village who died May 7 1852 aged 60 years
here rests in dust.....
......................................
also the aforesaid Micah Lewis who died on the
31 of December 1858
aged 66 years."
Thomas & Elinor Griffiths (parents of Thomas Griffiths who married Hannah)
"Coffad Luriaeth AM THOMAS GRIFFITHS Glandyffryn yn y Plwyf
hwn yr hwn a fu faw Ion.wr 6 ed 1845 : yn 60 oed.
HEFYD
RODERICK GRIFFITHS
ei fab
a fu farw Mai 9ed 1830 : yn 2 flwydd oed.
Yr i.m ni yma yn gorwedd
Yn rhwym gan angan du.
On mae .r allweddau y.nghadw
Gan Dywysog nefoedd fry.
Hefyd ELINOR GRIFFITHS
ei weddw yr hon a fu farw
clwef 20 1875 yn 85 oed."
Unfortunately the photos we took didn't survive, but the gravestones really were in good condition so they should be there for many years.
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Ditto.....I've had trouble with my service provider for the past two days.
Thanks for getting back to me with the gravestone details; will be in touch later
Regards, Roy
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I’ve attempted to translate the Welsh stone and here is the result.
In Remembrance of Thomas Griffiths in the parish of Glandyffryn who hath died January 6th 1845, 60 years old. Also Roderick Griffiths his son who died May 9th 1830, 2 years old bound by the Black Death; not sure what the next phrase is exactly but it reads something like [keeps the keys of the prince of heaven on high]. Also Elinor Griffiths, his widow, who died clwef 20 1875, 85 years old. I can’t find the meaning of “clwef” possibly it could be Feb
Roy
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Hi
There is another rootschatter who is researching the Lewis line. She is a direct descendent of Catherine Lewis and she has shared details and helped me a lot in the past and I know she would be very interested. Would you mind if I send her the details.
Roy
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Hi
I wonder if you would like to share your family descent from Micha & Elizabeth so I can add it to the Edwards/Lewis tree. If you would like a copy of the tree I am more than happy to send you one for your records.
Regards, Roy
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Hi I've been doing a research on my family and traced them back to llandewibrifei do you have any info on this family.
It's the Morgan family and I believe they had a shop in the village Caroline the daughter married a John Edwards and ended up living in llanelli late 1800