RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Northumberland Lookup Requests => Northumberland => England => Northumberland Completed Look up Requests => Topic started by: Mr. Tibbs on Tuesday 14 September 10 15:45 BST (UK)
-
My Grandmother's niece, Sarah HOAD, was born in 1860 supposedly in Wallsend. She married Robert WEIGHTMAN circa 1879 at St. Mary's, Harton and both stated their address as Cowpen Quay. Can anyone explain to me where Harton and Cowpen Quay are, please? :)
-
Hello,
was it not Horton? Or Hartley?
pckl
-
Cowpen Quay, definitately here in Blyth Northumberland.
Harton was probably Horton, as pronounced so by us Geordies
Dolly
-
Hello...
Also adding on from my comment, a quick search in google "st mary horton" comes up with a few results.
pckl
-
Yes Pckl,
That is here in Blyth too, Dolly
-
You can see Cowpen Quay on the maps at http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/Blyth_C14.htm
Stan
-
There is St Marys in Blyth but not sure about Horton.
-
Definitely Horton parish church is St. Mary's
http://www.genuki.bpears.org.uk/NBL/Horton/ChurchRecords.html
Christine
-
If you go to http://gis.durham.gov.uk/website/interMAP/viewer.htm and put the coordinates 427510, 579690 in to 'search' it will center the map on St. Mary's Horton on the 1980-1994 map.
Stan
-
Emmadog,
St Marys Horton is in the tiny village on the near outskirts of Blyth
Only a few minutes drive from where I live. Dolly
-
Although not adjacent to each other, the Parish of Horton was born out of the Parish of Woodhorn, circa mid 1700s.. Both churches dedicated to St Mary the Virgin.
Half of modern-day Blyth lay within the territory of the parish of Horton.
As population of Blyth soared, Horton mother parish established a "chapel of ease" , in 1864, dedicated to St Mary, to save the shoe leather of Blyth folk.
In 1896 St Mary's Blyth, got it's independence from Horton.
(In the meantime, Earsdon Parish had established a similar "chapel of ease", , in 1859, in the other half of what is modern-day Blyth, dedicated to St Cuthbert. St Cuthbert's, Blyth got it's independence from mother Earsdon in 1883.
So Anglicans living in Cowpen Quay, which was within the "Township" of Cowpen, up to 1864, would have walked to Horton Church for baptisms, marriages etc. After 1864 they would have had a shorter journey to St Mary's in Market Street ( in what is now Blyth, but was then called Waterloo)
~~~~~~~~------------------
Dolly Dimples, a few years ago, a Blyth History group was considering petitioning the TV "Time Team" to have them find the missing village of Horton.
Have you found the lost village of Horton ?
Michael
-
Michael, I never knew that the Village was ever lost!!
In all of my 74 years I have known the place where the church is as Horton,
My son was baptized there 44 years ago.
You are a book of knowlege Micheal!
Dolly.
-
This is a map of Horton Parish http://www.achurchnearyou.com/parish/250016/
Stan
-
:)Good morning pckl. Thank you for your replies. From the Chatters, it is clear that I meant Horton not Harton but it does look like Harton on the marriage certificate for Sarah and Robert. I don't know-whenever I need to search for a locality, my mind seems to go blank. It's so obvious that I should have googled St. Mary's and even with Harton, it would have brought it up and put me right.
Thank you :)
-
Dolly, thank you for the confirmation of Cowpen Quay and Horton. It brings the whole area so much nearer to communicate with someone from the locality and who knows St. Mary's so well. :) Most appreciated.
-
Many thanks, Stan. I tried Old Maps and although I had the correct position ('cos the Golf Club was there), the older map did not show the church just a Methodist chapel. This site is great. I also appreciate the site for Horton parish-a real find! ;D
-
I really do underuse Genuki; I'm so pleased that you have pointed me to it. It explains why I had so much trouble finding the marriage of Sarah and Robert: so many records in so many differents places. Thank you so much :)
-
Many thanks, Michael. You have come up trumps again for me. Your history of the locality has explained a lot about the addresses of several of my HOAD family: I thought that they were moving around a lot but they have only been moving short distances, no doubt for more rooms as the family grew rather than for work as I had assumed! :-[. I agree with Dolly: you are a book of knowledge. The biggest eye opener is that Horton is next to Woodhorn. How many times have I been to Woodhorn and never knew that I was so close to Horton ::) Wonderful!!
-
Dolly,
The parish church dedicated to St Mary the Virgin was within the "township" of Horton, within the Parish of Horton ( the other " townships" were Cowpen, which included Cowpen Quay,etc., East Hartford, West Hartford and Bebside)
The church was never lost, but where is the village ? In my 69 yrs (or most of them) I have seen the church in open land, with hardly any other buildings nearby. Even the vicarage was more than quarter of a mile away !
I did however as a child remember the odd cottage ruins along Horton Road, but they would never had made up a "village"
( In earlier times there was a community called Low Horton- now called New Delaval).
Referring to Stan's modern map, up to 1890s, the Horton Parish would have included land right up to the river side in Cowpen Quay/Blyth.
Michael
-
This map shows the boundary of Horton Parochial Chapelry in Woodhorn, before 1850. The Chapelry consists of sections (Townships) 478 to 482.
-
Wonderful map, Stan !
478= Cowpen, 479= Bebside, 480= East Hartford, 481= West Hartford, 482= Horton.
483=South Blyth, 484= Newsham, 485= Seaton Delaval ( three of the eight Townships that comprised Earsdon Parish)
I was born in Bebside colliery village, that lay within the Cowpen township
(478), not within the Bebside township (479) . The community of Bebside colliery got it's name from the name of the company owning the mine, not for geographic reasons..
Michael
-
How clear! Brilliant map. Thank you but...Cowpen is on the river, why Cowpen QUAY? Is it the same as Haugh or Haughs on the Tyne? Or is it like Newcastle Quayside?
-
You can see Cowpen Quay marked on the map at http://communities.northumberland.gov.uk/005986FS.htm
The Quay is on the river.
Stan
-
Absolutely spot on. Thank you. Now I understand: it's all to do with the shipyards! Robert was a tailor so I wasn't even thinking coal mining never mind ships. Great, much appreciated ;D
-
Have a look at this link to page 242/3 of a History of Northumberland which explains about the Village of Horton.
Malcolm.
http://www.archive.org/stream/historyofnorthum09nort#page/242/mode/2up/search/Horton+Castle
-
Hi all, I knew roughly where Horton was (sure where now since I looked at the mentioned map). I was not sure what the church at Horton was called. I was Born at North Blyth and then lived at Cowpen Quay for 11 years.
I knew that St Cuthberts church (where I was christened) was a chapel of ease but did not know abut St Marys which was the church where my grandparents were married.
I have learnt so much about my birthplace from Michael Dixon (and others) since joining Rootschat and it makes my research so more understandable!!!!
Barbara.
-
What a wonderful book, Malcolm. Although my roots are in the northeast and I have lived here almost all of my life, I am feeling that I have no knowledge or understanding of this particular area. All of the names mentioned on these pages, I have passed through at various times during my life and they come into conversation intermittently BUT this written description has done much more to make me realise how close all these townships are to each other.
I have learned so much that gives me a wider understanding of where my ancestors lived and what was familiar to them.
-
Barbara, I read your message after replying to Malcolm; you write exactly as I feel. I fully endorse all that you say. Rootschat is a marvellous site and everyone is so generous of their time and help. With grateful thanks.
Pat :)
-
An American acquaintance of mine raised the question of the term
" townships". Different from the modern term "township", and not necessarily related to "town"
Here according to the 1861 census are the population figures for the five townships that comprised the territory of Horton Parish.
Cowpen 6291
Bebside 53
East Hartford 13
West Harford 62
Horton 368 . A total of 6787 folk within the Parish.
With more pits opening and more industry within Cowpen Quay etc the figures from 1901 census were .....
Cowpen.17829 ( including Cowpen Village, Cowpen Quay, Waterloo, Bebside Col. etc)
Bebside 58 ( still just a few fields)
East Hartford 667 ( now includes the Colliery village)
West Hartford 79
Horton 2111 ( now includes New Delaval colliery). Total Parish pop.20744.
(Trivia Note. "Townships" in Ireland were smaller and termed "Townlands" . The Republic of Ireland which does not use Postcodes, still uses Townlands to facilitate mail delivery. Northern Ireland uses Postcodes)
Michael
-
A Township was a division of a Parish which formed a unit of local administration; it levied a separate Poor Rate and appointed a constable. An earlier term was 'Vill', a district or group of houses that bore a name.
See http://www.visionofbritain.org.uk/types/status_page.jsp?unit_status=Tn
Stan
-
Stan; Michael-you are absolute mines of information ;D Recently I was trying , yet again, to discover my maternal grandmother's family in Co Galway and I made the mistake of writing township when I meant townland. One of these days, I'll know what I'm talking about hopefully ... and it will be thanks to chatters like you two ;D ;D
-
Mr Tibbs,
I was in Northumberland County Records Office (Woodhorn) yesterday and to satisfy my curiosity, looked up the Hoad/Weightman marriage, in the marriage register of Horton Parish, church of St Mary the Virgin, c1879.
No Show !
The couple were not married in the Parish church. They were married in St Mary's church, the "chapel of ease" born from St Mary the Virgin, Horton, in 1864. (Eventually becoming an independant parish in 1896)
At the time of their marriage in 1879, the new St Mary's lay within the community of Waterloo, in the Township of Cowpen. Later streets, Church St and Wanley St were built adjacent to the church.
So the "chapel of ease" did it's job in that the couple maybe walked a couple of 100 yards from Cowpen Quay to the new St Mary's, instead of hiking up(it was uphill) to the mother church at Horton, about 3 miles away.
( When the two neighbouring Urban Districts of Cowpen and Blyth amalgamated in 1907, the combined area was called Blyth, hence St Mary's Parish , Blyth, neighbouring St Mary the Virgin Parish, Horton)
Michael
-
Michael-you astound me: your knowledge is so wide-reaching! ;D Once again, I cannot thank you enough. Without your input, I would blithely have accepted the information on the marriage certificate as St. Mary's Church, Horton. When will I learn? >:(I like the idea of the two of them just tripping along the street to the chapel of ease-"Let's get it over, pet. It won't take long." Bless him, Robert was lame so that would make it much easier for him. Mnay, many thanks :)
Pat
-
Pat,
Then just after their marriage they moved from the Cowpen area, into the Blyth area,i.e. Wellington Street.
Cowpen also had a Wellington St, but when Cowpen and Blyth merged in 1907 as "Blyth" , the ex-Cowpen "Wellington St" (in Cowpen Quay) got a name change to Burt St. One of a few street name-changes, necessitated by the merger.
Most of my info on Horton/Cowpen/Blyth etc has come from books/papers etc in the dusty cubby-hole in Blyth Library, including the volumes of The History of Northumberland, mentioned by Malcommon.
Michael
-
Thank you, Michael
Dusty cubby hole or not, it seems to have a wealth of information! How soon after they were married did they move? :)
Pat
-
Pat,
So from their residences in Cowpen Quay, Cowpen, they married in 1879.
On the 1881 census, ( 5091-14-21) taken as at 3rd April, they are living in 3 Carlton St, Blyth not neighbouring Wellington St, as I mistakenly reported earlier.
Their one yr old dtr, is recorded as born Blyth.
So they moved to Blyth between their married and birth of first child.
Robert was living in Folly Road, Blyth on 1871 census ( 5132=52-5)
Coincidentally a 1900 photo of Folly Rd has just been posted on this board
-see topic Folly Rd.
I noticed the marginal annotation on this census recording 11 yr old Robert as " lamed"
His father James would probably have worked at the Blyth Ropery ( shown on Ordnance Survey maps on Northumberland Communities web site)
Sarah Hoad, grandaughter of a Customs Officer , lived in Whitley ( Bay) village on 1871 census ( 5122-40-7).
By 1891 census ( 4178-84-58) Sarah/Robert had moved to Gateshead
Michael
-
Haven't been able to thank you earlier - new arrival in the family and "grandma" has been a laundress and bottle washer for a week, back home now. Your information brings a shiver to the spine: on Sarah and Robert;'s marriage certificate, it states that James WEIGHTMAN is a roper-you're a detective :)! Sarah is indeed the grandaughter of a coastguard/customs officer, from East Sussex originally. All of this investigation began because I can find no birth register for Sarah but through her life it consistently states that she was born in Wallsend in 1860. Although this part of her life is still a mystery (because I can't discover who her mother was), I have followed her to Gateshead, Heworth, back to Tynemouth through all her many pregnancies and babies to Prospect House, Forest Hall in 1928 and from there, would you believe, she emigrated, a widow for over twenty years with defective vision, to Saskatchewan, Canada with two of her daughters and one son. An amazing life story!
-
What was Sarah's dad's name and occ. (Wallsend lay within the Tynemouth Registration District)
Michael
-
Good morning Michael
That's another new piece of information. I did not know that Wallsend was part of Tynemouth Registration District! :-[
Sarah's father, I've just found out from Sarah and Robert's marriage certificate, is Edward HOAD. Quite a surprise; I thought I knew who her mother was and would not find her father-so much for making educated guesses :-[ Edward HOAD was a mason-stone mason, I believe.
Pat
-
Pat, I am gobsmacked ! How can you do meaningful family research without being familiar with Registration Districts and what territory they cover.
Genuki has very useful info, centred on
www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/REG/nbl
Michael
-
MICHAEL :-[
Cringe, cringe ... I've attached the site to my local favourites and will use it faithfully!!
When Tynemouth is transferred what does TWR mean? :-[
Pat
-
Pat, there is also a place-name index, which shows registration districts here http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/places/regindex1-3.pdf
-
Thank you Jen B :)
I'll put this index in my national favourites! I WILL be an expert one of these days ;D-heaven knows when! ;D