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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Derbyshire => England => Derbyshire Resources & Offers => Topic started by: Derbysderek on Friday 17 September 10 23:27 BST (UK)
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I have a very large number of Derbyshire parish Records and other records, willing to do free lookups.
Derek
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Hi Derek,
I am trying to find Robert Mortin/Morten born about 1764 in the Edale area. He married Nancy Robinson at Glossop All Saints on the 2nd of March 1790.
Regards,
Barry Mortin
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Hello Barry..all I have at the moment is ROBERT MORTON b c.1764 Edale with no other details except his spouse is Mrs Nancy Morton...........but I am a frequent visitor to Matlock records Office, so if i don't find him before, i'll find him there.
Bear with me.
Derek
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Hi Derek
I am trying to find the birth and if possible the parents of James Whitworth in about 1780.
He married Alice Brailsford on December 5th 1805 in Chesterfield, at St Mary and All Saints Church.
I got the marriage from FreeReg, it says the grooms parish was North Wingfield.
Thank you,
cg.
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Hello,
Do you have any baptism and death records covering Derby (namely St Wenburgh's) between 1820 - 1840? I am looking for children of Richard and Elizabeth Gregory and any infant deaths of them. He was a knitter. Richard's baptism also if possible. He was born about 1790-1791 in Derby but I don't know wherein unfortunately :-\
Also, baptisms for Ashbourne for his wife Elizabeth Robinson, born 1800?
Apologies for so many questions, but many, many thanks!
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Hello Derek
I am searching for a christening of John Smith born abt 1827 in Barlborough, Derbyshire, and according to his marriage certificate his father was George Smith who was a spade maker.
By 1850 John was already in Sheffield.
thanks for your help
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Hi
William Parker married Annie Anderton at Wilne St Chadd Church in 1918. I am trying to find the names of William's parents. If you are able to provide any information then I would be most grateful.
Thank you
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Hello Derek.
I am trying to identify the bride of John Eyre, married in 1865 and registered in Chapel En Le Frith. John's Free BMD records shows that his birth was registered in Q2 1844 in Chapel En Le Frith. His census records suggest that he was born and, possibly, married in Castleton. In the records for after his marriage his wife's name is shown as Mary Eyre. In all but one of these records her place of birth is shown as Castleton. In the remaining record it is shown as Hayfield. So his marriage seems to have been to a Mary ? in either Castleton or Hayfield.
I would be most appreciative if you would do the appropriate lookups to resolve the issue.
Regards
Dissman
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Hello again Derek
Re: The bride of John Eyre
Would it be asking too much if I also requested the names of Mary's parents.
John
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Hi Derek
I wonder if you could lookup a Robert ASHMORE. In the 1851 census he lists his birthplace as Temple Normanton, Derbyshire and gives his age as 69. However he was buried on the 8 July 1852 in Oxton, Nottinghamshire. That record gives his age as 77. So I guess he was born somewhere between 1775 and 1782. In 1841 and 1851 he was living in Oxton with Hannah HICKMAN. I don't believe they got married as their children use the surname HICKMAN.
Thanks
Mark
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Hi Derek, do you have anything regarding Belper & Duffield, my interest is the Bacon family, the earliest i have is John Bacon, b. 1766, married 1791, Hannah Simpson b. 1766. they had 6 known children the first of them was Ann Hopkinson Bacon b. 1795, i am trying to find the Hopkinson connection ?
Thank You, bodger
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Do not know if you can help. I have Francis Redfern married Esther Baker Norbury & Roston 1786. I am trying to find the birth of Francis and his parents. They seemed to stay around Ashbourne for the following 50 years
Regards Perdia
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Hi Derek,
Just wondered if you had any records for an Albert Harrop b. 1859, d. 1860 in the Whitfield area of Glossop.
Many thanks.
Martin
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Hi Derek
If by chance you have the records for Willington Derbyshire, could you please look up my ancestor William Pegg, who is said to have been born there circa 1803.
Many thanks in advance.
Brian
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Hello Derek,
If your offer to do Derbyshire lookups still stands, would you please check the death records for these three relatives:
1. Elizabeth Eades Greensmith b. 1819 d. 8 Jun 1884 in Derbyshire. In the 1881 census her residence was Marston upon Dove, Derbyshire
2. Her husband Charles Greensmith b.1813 d. 31 Dec 1864 on Nothingham Rd., Derby, Derbyshire
3. Her father, Daniel Eades, d. Jul 1866 at 84 years of age in Derbyshire. I think he probably moved in with Elizabeth after his wife died.
Any information would be appreciated.
Kind regards, Nan
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Hi,
Please could you see whether there is a baptism record for John COOPER dob 3/11/1779,
St Peters, Derbyshire.
Thanks
Tab11
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Hi looking for information on a Alfreton family called Farnsworth. From the 1841 census I have two brothers William born c 1796 with family and a John born 5 years earlier with famliy.
I'm looking for their ancestors but would settle with a fathers name and mothers if known. can any one help point me where to go
regards
Alan Turner
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Alan..I am a bit skewed by communicating on this site..not knowing whether my messages are being received..I'll probably sort it eventually..have sent you a message about the farnsworths.
Derek
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Hi Derek
I wondered if your records would show where someone was buried? My Great Great Grandfather, John Hawkins died at 23 Lordsmill Street, Chesterfield on 23rd March 1889.
Thanks for your help
Bev
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Hello Derek
Is your offer still open?
Do you have access to Willington records?
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Bev......her death took place so close to St Mary's (Crooked Spire) that yu could almost have carried her there..I'd have to go to Matlock records office to prove it.......but I can't do it this week.
Have you tried NBI..National Burials Index?
Derek.
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Sunflower..not as such..but I do have a lot of irons in the fire. up to 1911...so try me......
Derek.
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Hi Derek
Thanks for that.
I did think about St Mary's but thought that I might be being too optimistic and the Spital Cemetery jumped out of the map at me.
I haven't tried the NBI, can I get that online or would I need to go to Matlock to see that? This is the first time I have tried to find where someone is buried.
Sorry for all the questions.
Bev
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Hi Derek
I've looked on Findmypast and found a record of his burial. This is what I found:
Forenames:John
Surname:Hawkins
Year:1889
Age:52
Place of Event:Chesterfield
Reg Office:Chesterfield
County:Derbyshire
Register Entry:CHD/69/432
Record source:Derbyshire Registrars Death Index Find out more
Data provider:Derbyshire Family History Society
I'm not sure what this tells me, can you shed any light on it for me?
Thanks
Bev
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Derek, i may have missed your reply, Bacons n Belper ? Duffield.
See post #10
bodger
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Hi Bev....it actually doesn't tell you any more than you found on the Deaths section of BMD.....what it does tell you is that there is a Rgistrar of Deaths..and i may find that at Matlock records Office.......and that the Derbyshire family History Society exists..they do look ups but charge for it.
Short of that the Chesterfield Parish Registers..but which one.....will tell us.......again..although i have many many Pr's St mary's ain't one of them........but a note of hope..the Church which performed the Burial Service is usually the one which performed the Burial........except of course for cremations.
Derek
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Hi Derek
John Hawkins died of Bronchitus, he was a coal miner. Do you think its a possibility that he was cremated? I didn't really consider that.
I have thought of cremation as being pretty modern but I suppose if someone died of a contagious disease, cremation would get rid of the germs.
Would the parish records of St Mary's be at Matlock?
Thanks
Bev
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Hello Derek
Thanks for your reply. I was looking for any extra information on this marriage.
James Hines & Elizabeth Tomlinson 7 June 1807 - Willington
I have looked at the Phillimore entry, but no clues. I am hoping there may be witnesses also did either of them come from Willington.
::)
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I'm not very aware of areas / parishes in Derby itself, and I'm going to have to try and find a Newbold family in Derby in the 1850/60s, possibly even to 1870s, but not sure how long - father is William Newbold, children will include Joseph and Ann. Is there any easily accessible way to find parishes / churches for tracing baptisms / marriages, as I've not done well with census returns?
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nkbauer..sorry..all I have are the same dates and names that you have........and BMD's back them up.
Derek.
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Thank you for checking for me, Derek. I appreciate your efforts on my behalf.
Kind regards, Nan
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Hello Derek
You couldn't look up a Sarah Gregory born 1788 Clowne Derbyshire, wondered if it gives details of her mother's maiden name?
:)
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Hi Jopeg.......way back then you ony got the father's name..which as you say id john.
But I've been at this for a long time, and the trick is to look for a marriage for John Gregory..before tyhe Birth.
In this case you're in luck becasue there is only one:
JOHN GREGORY married ELIZABETH TEMPLE at Clowne 04.04.1785.
They in fact had THREE children:
SARAH and JOHN..both baptised 12.10.1788..........doesn't mean they were twins, becasue multple christenings were very common..sometimes weeks months or even years after birth
and MARY baptised 15.07.1792
anything else i can do for you..just shout.
Derek.
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Hello Yorky.....you're not giving me a lot to go on..but here's my best shot from parish records...I'll look at censuses later.....
In Derby itself i can only find ANNE NEWBOLD baptised St. Peters29.08.1847 daughter of William and Maria..... in wider Derbyshire there are a couple of candidates for Joseph;-
At Ticknall born 21.03.1852 baptised 25.04.1852 son of William and Harriett
At Newhall baptised 03.0.1858 son of William and Emma...
there is another ANNE baptised Swarkestone derbys..01.05.1840..daughter of William and Elizabeth.
None of these are very far from derby.
I'll see if i can get any clues that you've missed on the censuses.
If you have any other information..please let me know.
Derek.
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Hello again Yorky...........if you look at the 1841 Census for JOSEPH NEWBOLD born 182 Etwall..you will find he is on of seven children of WILLIAM and ELIZABETH..including ANN born 1840.
I have re-checked my records and find that Joseph and Ann were both born at Etwall..JOHN 18.03.1832 and Anne 01.05.1840.
One sources says Swarkestone for Ann..but Swarkestone and etwall are virtually the same place..and they both have the same parents.
I have studied the censuses in depth and this is the only William Newbold family that includes both Joseph and Ann.
I believ that Joseph went on to marry a FANNY..............
Derek.
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Thank you again, I can see I'm going to have to get a map of old Derby area, and keep on hunting around. It's funny, I'd originally assumed the Newbolds had Yorkshire origin, then i was corrected, and directed to Derby, so I'm in a wholly different territory now I've got to hunt in Derby area - and it does make such a difference.( Mind you, I'm still worried about Ann's apparent age, as I said)
But I did want to thank you here for your efforts, time and interest. I do appreciate it.
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Good Afternoon Derek
I wonder if you sould mind doing an Ilkeston Burial look up for me please (if you have the registers)
I am searching for where my great great grandmother is buried. She isn't at St Marys Church or the 2 cemeteries in Ilkeston - do you have records for Cotmanhay Church?
Her name is Jane Ann Elizabeth Rigley - died in Ilkeston 18 August 1891.
Any help would be greatly appreciated as I seem to have hit a brick wall.
Can I also ask if you are able to help with another problem I have still in ilkeston/Cotmanhay. As per the 1911 Census - my great great grandparents had 10 children - 7 still living in 1911 - 3 had died. I can only find 1 child that has died, would you be able to help me find the missing ones? Is this something you can do or is too big an ask? I have the same problem with my great grandparents too. They had 10 children 6 still living in 1911 - 4 had died I can only find 2 possibly 3.
I would be greatful for any help or advise as I am still new at this and learning as I go along.
Di
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Hello :)
Would you mind looking up a Thomas Rudkin/Rodkin for me please? :)
I think he'd have been born around 1780-1805 and possibly died in the 1840s and was a coal miner...
He baptised 2 of his children ( Thomas & Hannah ) in Belper in 1828 and I am hoping that the reason was because he has some sort of connection to Belper.
He has been my brick wall for years now so hopefully he'll be in one of your records!! :) :)
Thank you :)
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Hi Derek,
Your help would be greatly appreciated in locating any information on the parents of William Towle, Blacksmith of Sandiacre, died 1799. I believe his father was called William too.
I have looked as far as I can but have had no luck in locating the birth details for William junior, nor the marriage details for his parents. I know that William junior married Elizabeth Sheepey and have her parents details to hand.
Another pair of eyes may see the wood for the trees :D
Many thanks for your help with this one !
Soo
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Hello Soo.......your information is a bit sketchy..and gives me no clue as to when Willam might have been born..so all I can give you is a list of possibles in the sandiacre area, as follows:-
WILLIAM TOWLE batisms......
01.02.1791 at Sawley..son of Edward
26.12.1740 at sawley..son of William
22.07.1719 at Sandiacre..son of Thomas and Barbara
28.12.1713 at Wilne ..son of Mary
23.12. 1701 at Wilne ..son of William and Mary
23.02.1718 at Wilne ..son of Thomas and Mary..
I'll keep looking.
Derek.
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Derek, i have John Bacon & Hannah, in the 1841 census, a possible marriage is John and Hannah Simpson, Aug , 1791, Duffield, my possible 4 x g. grandparents
Going from the census calculated date of 1791, have you any record of a John Bacon born around that time in Duffield ?
Thank You bodger
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Hello Bodger........John Bacon, in that area at about that time is a morass!!
There are a lot of JOHN BACONs..several with parents John......and your request is not that clear..you give me a marriage 1791 between John and Hannah in Duffield..so is it the birth of a John Bacon around 1791..or the birth of the John who married Hannah?
Duffield is a Parish in which all Births deaths and marriages took place till about 1800..after which the sepaerate entities of Heanor Belper Alfreton Horsley heage etc//all had theor own parish records.........there are John bacons c1795 in all of these places.........you see the nightmare?
There is an 1841 entry for John Bacon born Duffield 1793..living in the household of JOB BACON..his son ...and there is also a John Bacon transported to Australia for his part in the Pentrich riots!!
any more hints you might have would be usefull in seeinng this through.
Derek.
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Derek, IGI,, film no 457489, John Bacon, b. about 1766, marriage 14th August 1791 Duffield, to Hannah Simpson, that really is all i know of his past.
To confuse the issue John, b.1766, his grand son John, b. 1833, in his will dated, 6th August 1890 , mentions a George Bacon, of Scarborough who has bequeathed him £2000.00. because of this bequest, i think there must be a family link.
This George was a lace merchant in Nottingham before he retired to Scarborough.
On tracing this George, i found he was born 1806 to Edward Bacon born 1775, Duffield, Edward married an Elizabeth Flint b.1777, the marriage was in Nottingham, 13 June 1804
My "gut" feeling is that John, b, 1766, and Edward, b. 1775 were brothers, but i cannot find the link, as you say theres a lot of Bacons in that area.
Tony aka, bodger
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Ok Tony..try this:-
JOHN BACON 24.03.1765..EDWARD BACON 09.12.1776..brothers...sons of Edward and Ann..at South Normanton......same general area as all the Duffield villages..........
Derek.
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Hi Derek - and Soo
Just found the marriage of William Towle and Elizabeth Sheepy in Sandiacre in 1755 on Philimore's Index and it says they used a licence. Elizabeth's age is given as 26 and William's as 21, so for a ball-park birth-year we have 1734.
The only one I've been able to find is Attenborough Notts 1733, parents William Towle of Stapleford Notts and Sarah Oldershaw of Chilwell p. Attenborough, who married in 1730 in St Nicholas Nottingham - also with a licence. Their children were baptised in Attenborough but the ones who died were buried in Stapleford. Still pondering this one ...
Best Regards
Ros
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Ok Tony..try this:-
JOHN BACON 24.03.1765..EDWARD BACON 09.12.1776..brothers...sons of Edward and Ann..at South Normanton......same general area as all the Duffield villages..........
Derek.
Derek, Hmm, that fits the bill my only wory is the South Normanton connection, but i guess they had to come from somewhere.
Thank You, Tony
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Hi Derek
Can I ask what records you have for Ilkeston and if you would be willing to do a couple of lookups for me please.
I am searching for the children of William and Jane Ann Elizabeth Rigley (nee Webster)
Accoring to the 1911 census they had 10 children 3 died but I can only find 1 - Ruth.
Jane Ann Elizabeth died in 1891 so it will be before then
I seem to have come up against a brick wall and unable to trace the missing 2.
I would be eternally grateful for any advice you can offer.
Regards Di
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Derek,
Could you help with this? I am looking for the birth of Thomas Newton, this is taken from the 1841 census.
Thos Newton 50
Julia Newton 45
Eliza Newton 15
Thos Newton 10
James Newton 10
Sarah Newton 11
This is him in Killamarsh in 1841, he is dead by 1851, down as born in the county and he is a
coal miner, other than that I don't know. His widow is living in Clowne in 1851
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Hi Derek,
Many thanks for the details that you came up with re William Towle.
Out of curiosity do you have any idea what information Matlock may hold on Derbyshire Workhouse records - ie (personal) details of admissions, any births and when/why they may have left the workhouse??
I have very little knowledge of the workhouses of this period and any tips would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks once again
Soo
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Matlock will have quite extensive Workhouse records......and i am definitely going in the nest week/ten days.
I do know that most 1881 Workhouse details are free on-line...not just Derbyshire.
Try Googling something like "Workhouse Records" and see how you get on.
Derek.
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Hi Jopeg.........on the basis that Killamarsh and Glossop are more or less the same place..and that Census Records, particularlu 1841/1851..rounded up or down their ages.........
Thomas newton son of Dinlesian (?)and Sarah..13.03.1792 Chesterfield............and more likely:-
Thomas Newton born Glossop 20.12.1795.baptised 25.12.1795..son of Joseph and Jane
There is another Thomas newton born 1794 Glossop..but by 1861 he is in Tintwistle Ashton under lyne.....
I'll keep looking for a bit.
Derek.
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Hello Di..........I'd like you to give me tha names of the surviving children of William and Jane Anne Elizabeth, please........I have a confusing cross-over between two families..........both of William Rigley (Miner Ilkeston)..and one researcher i have been in touch with has put them both together!!..on the basis that jane Anne might have been known as Elizabeth..
I have the ilkeston baptisms up to 1901..and none of them appear in them!!..plenty of Rigleys..but none with the right parents.........which is annoying, but not unlikely because there are a number of small parishes around Ilkeston........at the moment i'm looking at about 11 children!!..but don't want to pass on wrong information...
Have you considered that the two missing children were never baptised????..and if they were born and died between censuses..we'll never find them.
Derek.
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Good Evening Derek
The children of William & Jane Anne Elizabeth Rigley (nee Webster) My Great Great Grandparents I have found are below. (1911 census says 10 children born 3 children died.)
William Smith Rigley born 9 August 1863 (My Great Grandfather)
Mary Hannah Rigley born 1865
Martha Ann Rigley born 1867
Ruth Rigley born 1870 - died 1871
Elizabeth Ann Rigley born 1872
Walter Frederick Rigley born 1876
Thomas Rigley born 1879 (also I believe called John Thomas)
Joseph Rigley born 1883.
All with exception of Ruth are still alive in 1911 census
Their Mother Jane Ann Elizabeth Rigley Died 18 August 1891 - I have come up against a brick wall trying to fine where she is buried - can only be St Marys or Cotmanhay Church - I have searched Stanton Road Cemetery and Park Cemetery didn't open until 1892. ???
William Smith Rigley married Jane Elizabeth Lineker
1911 census says 10 children born, 4 children died - I can only find 3
Ann/Annie Rigley born 1885 trowell
William Smith Rigley born 1887 - died 1887
Ernest Rigley born 1888 - died 1894
Percy Rigley born 1890 - died 1895
Walter Frederick Rigley born 28 February 1893
Martha Ann Rigley born 9 May 1895
Robert Arthur Rigley born 28 October 1897 (My Grandfather)
Jane Ann Elizabeth Rigley born 1900
Fanny Rigley born 12 May 1902
I would appreciate any advice you are able to give as I seem to have hit a brick wall and don't know where to try next.
Kind Regards
Di
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Hi Derek
Did you mean to put that Killamarsh and Glossop were practically the same place, they seem to be thirty miles apart?
Perhaps his death record would give some clue to where he was born? He must have died between 1841 and 1851 probably Killamarsh or Clowne (more likely Clowne).
Also seems he married in 1809 but I have no records to children earlier than 1821, can't find any children on IGI but perhaps I am searching wrong.
??? ??? ???
I had seen the Dinlesion (multiple spelling variations) but am grasping for some sort of connection.
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Hello Di........thank you for your information.....i have now got the complete family..but it is still a matter of conjecture which of the deceased children are missing...........I have found some suggestion that they could possibly be MARY HANNAH 1865.and ELIZABETH ANN 1870..both of whom are "replaced" in 1866 and 1874...a common practice in those times........I'm not saying definitively that this is the answer but the alternative is to |trawl through the BMD's for child deaths between 1860 and 1880..then again 1880 ish to 1911.......I've had a go at it..and there are an enormouse number of Rigley registered deaths under the age of 10.....
I would point out that these are registered in Basford Nottinghamshire..which used to incllude Ilkeston....
Idid attempt to answer your query about the burial place of Jane Ann Elizabeth..probably on my Derbyshire Parish recorfs thread on GenesReunited...and suggested it HAD to be ST.Mary's...........but I won't know till i see the burial records at Matlock......
I do have the St.Mary's Ilkeston PR's from 1588-1841..and the Baptisms all the way through to 1901..and the very curious thing is that none of this Rigley or lineker (linacre) family, are anywhere to be seen. Which means there is another Ilkeston Parish somewhere that I haven't yet found........or they were all non-conformists or Catholics............which on the face of it seems unlikely since there are a massive number of RIGLEYS that ARE in the St.Mary's Registers............
I'll keep in touch..
Derek.
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Hello Derek
Thank you so much for your advice - it sometimes helps just to bounce ideas off other people.
I have managed to trace marriages for all children of William & Jane Ann Elizabeth (webster) and have traced them all on 1911 census with their spouse's so I don't think they have been replaced.
I am now attempting to find brothers and sisters of Jane Ann Elizabeth Webster as they seem to have a pattern where they have named after brothers and sisters. William had only 2 sisters Mary and Hannah but to put the cat amongst the pigeons his mother Martha remarried and went on to have more children ???
So far I have come up with a possible Arthur Rigley buried St Marys 18 September 1888 and another clutching at straws this time - Charles William Rigley buried St Marys 26 September 1886.
The family have lived in Ilkeston/Cotmanhay all their life and it is so frustrating that the Basford Regisration District covers such a wide area so we are unable to define BMD's in Ilkeston ???
I have found (on familysearch website)a baptism of Thomas Rigley baptised Cotmanhay 12 October 1879 and Martha Ann Rigley baptised Primitive Methodist Ilkeston Circuit 2 October 1867.
(Thomas was also called John Thomas and was killed in action in WW1)
Thanks again for all your help and advice.
Regards
Di
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Hello Di..your Martha Ann is interesting..if its the same girl..she lived until 1946..and supports my suggestion that we should be looking in Non-conformist registers.....and confirmation that Thomas born 1879 died in 1915...
Derek.
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Hi Derek
Martha Ann married William Shaw in June 1886 - at St Marys Church, ilkeston
I think her death is Ilkeston - June 1/4 1947 age 79.
So many Martha's, William's & Jane's it makes your head spin doesn't it.
Regards
Di
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Thank Derek. I'll have a look on google and see what comes up for Derby workhouse admission records.
Soo
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I have a very large number of Derbyshire parish Records and other records, willing to do free lookups.
Do you have the Melbourne Derbyshire church records. I am wanting the marriage between John Waldram and Hannah Johnston. They married on 9 August 1818 in Melbourne. This appears on the IGI family search What I want to find out is who his father is.
They have two children in Wilson, one, Thomas ch Breedon on the hill 25 oct 1818. I am hoping these are the parents. Thomas's records show John and Hannah.
If you have this record could you please help.
I am new to this and would appreciate any help.
Otherwise can you direct me where to apply for the license.
Thanks
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Hi Indi0...........I have the melbourne PR's..but they are not very helpful in answering your question..Melbourne is in Derbyshire..Breedon on the Hill a few miles away in leicestershire......with Wilson in between.....
I can confirm the marriage of John Waldram to Hannah Johnson 09.08.1818........witnesses Sarah Waldram her \mark..and Joseph calladine.........his father is not mentioned..but i suspect he came from leicesteshire rather than Derbyshire......
Thomas was born October 1818 in breedon..and sarah 09.12.1821 in Breedon.......if this is the right sarah.she married Mordecai Cook in 1848..????????????
There is a Sarah Ann johnson born at Melbourne 21.10.1823 but not baptised until 30.07.1837..daughter of John Waldram and Ann..rather than Hannah........this particular John Waldram was a Potter by trade..
If any of this fits, let me know and i'll follow it up.
Derek.
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Hi Derek
I really appreciate your help in my search.
It looks like you found the right John and Hannah Waldram.
The children are in my tree but I had not heard of Sarah Ann.
In the Breedon records I traced a Hannah Johnston born in Wilson 1803 and also an Ann born 1793 also Wilson, father not shown but could be related? The names were all shown within the period Hannah's parents were having children.
I wonder if Hannah died, and perhaps Ann was her sister.
I am interested in John Waldram the potter.
But I would be interested in your comments.
Thanks Christine
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Please could you possibly check Heath and Temple Normanton churches for a burial for Rose Dannatt aged 18, she died on 12th April 1936. Her death certificate states "of 2 Heath Road Temple Normaton" but I don't know if that is where she lived or where she worked, she died of shock after her clothes caught fire.
Thank you so much
Liz
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Derek
I wonder if you have the baptisms for All Saints Derby.
I'm looking for more info than there is on FamilySearch for
Margaret Sarah Meredith, bpt 5 Nov1830, dau of James & Sarah Ann. Occupatiob, abode, and mother's maiden name would be a great help.
Thanks
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Craven..I have spent a long time on this since i saw the enquiry on your own thread.............There are a number of problems, and possibly one or two clues...........Margaret Sarah Meredith appears nowhere after her baptism at All saints derby......You would expect her to be on the 1841 census..she is not....nor is she on any other Census.
James Meredith certainly did not come from Derbyshire..have checked all the marriages pre 1830 in the County.
Margaret Sarah..must have been known as either Margaret or Sarah..but that doesn't find her either..have you got any later history for her??? a marriage or a death or even siblings.......
So how do we find James Meredith???? with difficulty............so I searched every possible records for a James Meredith born say 1810-1814.....married to a Sarah Ann........several possibles..and then married simply to a Sarah..more possibles.........but only possibles.
Meredith is a Welsh name..we have a James and Sarah Ann from Staffs/Welsh border area..........and several in Wales...........you see its too big an area.........
I think he might have been in the ARMY......don't ask me why but there is a sort of thread from Stepney in London..Bethnal Green and a couple of Army establishments........and there is a very real possibility that Margaret Sarah was the last of the children..the others being born earlier in Stepney...........this is all speculation.....and the baptism in Derby was a one off flying visit.perhaps because he was only in the area
on Army duty??????
Is it possible tha Margaret S
arah died before 1841???? there is no sign at all of a Margaret or a Sarah born Derby 1830 anywhere that me very long tentacles can reach..........
As for the All Saints Derby entry......its too early for anything other than parents names..........
Do you have any other information?????
Derek.
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Derek
Thanks for your reply.
The family can be found on the 1841 census for Bradford, Yorkshire, where Margaret can be found aged 10 born not in Yorkshire. By 1851 they are in Little Bolton, Lancashirebut Margaret not there.
Her older brother Thomas was born 1828 Stepney, and her younger sister Mary born 1833 Horsforth Yorkshire.
The only baptism of a Margaret Icould find was the Derby one. Father James Meredith was an Excise Officer which might explain his wanderings. From other censuses James wasborn in Southark, Surrey c1799 and Sarah Ann in Whitechapel c1795. I too am unable to find a marriage which is why I was hooping the Derby baptism might show Sarah Ann's maiden name as it doesn't appear on any of the otherbaptisms in either Stepney or Horsforth.
Unfortunatley the last born child Eliza was baptised Horsforth 25 Jun 1837 so no birth certificate!
Regards
Ken
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I am trying to find anything pre-1910 on Mary Ann Bamford. When was she born? Who were her parents? etc.
Mary Ann married George Jackson in Bolsover, St. Marys, in early 1910. The two then immigrated to Canada where I interviewed her daughter before her death two decades ago. She knew all about George Jackson. But the daughter knew precious little about her mother, Mary Ann. Recently, Find My Past gave me only the above marriage information. It is from the Bolsover parish record.
Could you see if that parish record cited any names of parents or any particulars?
I live 5,000 miles away and can't do it myself. Thanks.
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I have a very large number of Derbyshire parish Records and other records, willing to do free lookups.
Derek
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I have a four times grandfather Thomas Ferneley who married Emma Preston on 11th April 1842 with witnesses of Lucy Ferneley and George Preston. The marriage was at Manchester Cathedral and Thomas's father was quoted as Aaron Ferneley. I cannot trace an accurate birth record fo either Thomas Ferneley believed to be born circa 1814 or his father Aaron.
I have found a Thomas Fearneley (Different spelling) on family search. org christened on 4sep 1814 in Mellor Derb,England with a mothers name of just Lucy! The family search reference is microfilm 428926,498104.
Any help you can provide checking the parish record spelling of Fearneley and identifying birth, records for Thomas, Aaron or Lucy would be appreciated.
Many thanks
Dickymint- 01260 226535
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Thank you. I've just finished writing my genealogy and am in the process of corrections. So I'll keep you in mind with appreciation.
I live 5,000 miles away from Derbyshire near San Francisco and searched parish records in the mid-1980s when seeing all English records was allowed without charges and restrictions. The problem with my mother's Derbyshire heritage is that they were Methodists and hard to find. During my writing I have wondered, "hmm, not a direct blooded person; where did that one come from?" Mary Ann Banford, for example, married a man who influenced my grandparent's emigration. Computer search show a couple the same name. Computers have no ability in questioning or imagination.
So, I'll start looking thru the manuscript with many thanks. And, if you ever find or know of someone like yourself with Hampshire records, please notify me. There are 2 ancestors there that are complete mysteries. JIM
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Hi Derek
I am trying to find details of birth of Samuel Stevens about 1809 in Dale Abbey Derbyshire.
Any pointers in right direction would be gratefully received.
Thanks Brian
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Perhaps I missed it, Derek. I see no answer from a weeks ago question asking any details of the marriage of:
George Jackson to Mary Ann Bamford
probably Bolsover, early 1910.
Do your parish records have it?
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Hello Boscoe...sorry..yes i did miss it.......and i don't actually have the parish records for it.......but I can tell you, it wasn't Belper which is a registration district in itself covering a wide area..it was Chesterfield registration District JFM 1910...........again covering a wide area!!...you'll need the marriage certificate I'm afraid.
If this is the mary Ann Bamford that you're all looking for from Brampton..then they are in 1911 at Springfield farm Holymoorside..she is shown as Mary Ann Elizabeth Jackson........he is a coalminer from Cutthorpe..and they have been married one year.......
Derek.
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Thanks for your interest. No, you have the wrong one. But, you are right about Chesterfield.
Separately, they immigrated to Canada. The Passenger list has her in April 1910 as married, but he is no where to be found. His daughter told me years ago that "he came first to get things ready."
Its not that important. He is only a distant relative. However, he is critical in the motivation of my grandparents to immigrate the next year.
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Hello Derek
Can you look up a baptism of a James CALLADINE living at New House, Eaton & Alsop DERBS on the 1861 census age 3 but born at Parwich DERBS in Mar Quarter 1858
Possible earlier address Holestonemoor, Ashover......
Thank you
Gen in NBL England
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Derek,
I would appreciate any information/leads on Arthur Asling and Jane Maskrey before they married in 1860 in Ashborne district of Derbyshire. I believe marriage was at St Michael's, Shirley.Keen to find their birth information and details of their respective parents/grandparents (birth/marriage/occupations etc) as I seem to have hit a brick wall on various free resources and limited access to FindMyPast.
I believe that the Arthur/Jane I am researching lived at 22 Depot Street, Litchurch Derbyshire at time of 1861 Census (confirmation that this is correct couple appreciated). Census indicates Arthur born1839 and Jane 1839 in Derbyshire but I cannot find either birth in BMD records.
From 1841 Census information I believe Arthur was the son of William and Elizabeth Asling (maiden name not known), both born c1811.
Cannot find Jane Maskrey in pre 1861 FreeCen but believe that her father may have been John.
Information/leads/links to useful sources would be greatly appreciated. Fingers crossed that your Derbyshire records can provide some answers.
Many thanks in advance.
Haff
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Hello....
While you are waiting to see what Derek comes up with.... :)
Jane is with her parents and siblings in 1851 in Shirley, Derbyshire.
1851 - HO107/Piece2146/Folio94/Page 16,
John Maskrey aged 44 - Ag Lab - born Shirley
Mary Maskrey 39
William Maskrey 15 - pupil teacher National School
Jane Maskrey 12
John Maskrey 8
Louisa Maskrey 5
George Maskrey 3
Beresford Maskrey 4 Months - All born Shirley
There are a lot of Maskrey's with name variations who were born and baptised at Shirley.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vm8/
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Dizzyfish,
many thanks for 1851 Census info showing Jane's parents John (b1807) & Mary (b 1812).
Fingers crossed that Derek can come up with some info including her parents marriage (early 1830's?) and their births/parents.
thanks again
Haff
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Hello everybody..so sorry..have had some time in hospital so have slipped behind a bit....I can tell you that..ARTHUR ASLING..a joiner from Litchurch, son of William Asling also a Joiner...married JANE MASKERY at Shirley by Banns 06.10.1860....witnesses were William and Mary Maskery.......who mat be her parents.....I have the Shirley PR's. and Arthur was not born at Shirley..............will get back to you ASAP...Derek.
modified 22.03........1841 William Asling a Joiner is in St.Werbergh Derby........with his wife Elizabeth..both born (allegedly) 1811..........
Tons of Maskery's born at Shirley..but no Jane of any of the spellings!!.......so in summary..at the moment it looks like we might have William and Elizabeth as Arthur's parents..and John and Mary as Jane's parents............Derek.
JANE MASKERY baptised (Maskerry!!) at Shirley 02.09.1838 daughter of John and mary.
ARTHUR ASLING..born 17.01.1839..baptised St. Werbergh Derby 24.02.1839..son of William and Elizabeth.............
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Hello Derek....
It is strange that you said you can't find Jane in your records as she appears on the IGI = http://www.rootschat.com/links/0vm8/
Jane Maskerry - 2 Sept 1838, Shirley, Derbyshire - parents John & Mary
Sheila.
You must have since found her whilst I was typing! :D
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Hi Dizzi..happens all the time.......
I now knoow that both William and Elizabeth Asling were "Not of County" in 1841.........in 1851 Elizabeth is a widow..living in Nottingham with son Arthur aged 12..........we're getting there!!......possible wedding for William and Elizabeth..St Mary Nottingham 20.12.1825......William Asling and Elizabeth Barnes............it's the only one I can find..which doesn't make it right!!!
Derek.
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Derek,
many thanks for swift reply.
Regarding witnesses at the wedding, i wonder if William was Janes brother (born c 1836?); would the Mary have been Janes mother or possibly relative as lots of Maskreys in the area?
Re Elizabeth Asling, sad that she was widow in 1841 with Arthur. Was he really 12 in 1841 as I thought he was born c 1839. I beleive Elizabeth may have been from Nottingham so maybe she moved abck"home" after Williams death?
Any further info re Williams death etc greatly appreciated.
Thanks again
Haff
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Sorry..typo..........all three on 1841..Elizabeth a widow in 1851..with Arthur 12...............mea culpa!!
I think your other suggestions are entirely accurate.
WILLIAM ASLING..death registered at Derby last quarter 1849
Derek
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Derek,
Thanks for info on Williams death and all earlier info.
Greatly appreciated.
Haff
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Dear Derek
Please if you have a chance can you look at my enquiry to you of the 25th November 2012. In particular I am trying to find Aaron Ferneley (Fearneley). I have info on his son Thomas Ferneley and the rest of the family but not Aaron or his wife Lucy Ferneley. I know he became bankrupt after running a grocers shop in Manchester on 13.10.1817 and he was dead by 1843. He had a son Thomas Ferneley my 2 times greatgrandfather and a daughter Lucy Ferneley who married a George Davis at Manchester Cathedral 26.01.1843.My family tree is on Ancestry under James Richards 18 and it can be easily accessed.Any help on Aaron Ferneley who may have come from Derbyshire would be appreciated. Regards James David Richards
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I'm afraid i have very little to offer about Aaron Ferneley..........whatmakes you think he may have come from Derbyshire????.........The only two Derbyshire possibilities are as follows:
on the basis that he married Lucy Lovelock 13.08.1810..and she may have been born 1787..we can assume he was of a similar age....there is a Non0conformist baptism for Aaron Ferneley 06.11.1785 at Marple Independent Baptist.....son of John......
The other depends on the practice of adult Baptism (if he married in 1810)..and is basically flying a kite!!
Aaron Ferneley BAPTISED(not born) at Mellor 06.09.1807 son of James and Mary...........grabbing at straws!!
The problem is that he was dead by 1841,so we're going to get nothing from the Census..and he could have been born anywhere......more likely London than Derbyshire methinks.
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Derek,
just wondered if there was any information on the marriage/births/baptisms of John Maskrey (born c 1807) and Mary (born c 1812); parents of Jane Maskrey born 1838.
thanks
Haff
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well.we're getting into very rarified atmosphere here..............but my best bet..........and I always stress that if I am not sure.......is as follows...........
JOHN MASKERY baptised 28.04.1807
ALICE MASKERY baptised 29.06.1809........both at Derby...children of CHARLES MASKERY and MARTHA nee HARRISON..who were married 13.04.1802 at Wirksworth............Charles Maskery baptised Wirksworth 14.03.1784 son of John and Hannah nee Greatorex..............is a very reasonable line...........but I wouldn't put my mortgage on it.........offered to you strictly on the basis of possibility..not even probability........unless something clicks with your own information.......
Derek.
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Derek,
thanks for the info; I appreciate caveats and will see if it links in with other info.
Based upon 1851 census, there were 6 children living with John and Mary including Mary and her older brother, born c1836.
My guess is that John and Mary married in early 1830's - is there any info on their marriage that indicates Mary's maiden name?
thanks again
Haff
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Hi, Haff & Derek... :)
Re Haff's request for information on post 86 for birth and marriage information for John Maskrey born c 1807....
I was interested in Derek's answer "JOHN MASKERY baptised 28.04.1807
ALICE MASKERY baptised 29.06.1809........both at Derby...children of CHARLES MASKERY and MARTHA nee HARRISON..who were married 13.04.1802 at Wirksworth".
I thought that's interesting and wondered if we might have a distant connection as our Gt-Grandfather's half sister married a Maskrey who's line is from Wirksworth.....
Not sure why Derek thinks John Maskrey who was in Shirley was baptised at Wirksworth..... as on the 1851 census John says he is from Shirley.
Baptism at Shirley
John MASCREY - born & baptised same day? 11th Jan 1807 - parents William & Mary
Marriage at Shirley - 21st May 1832
John MASKREY & Mary ADAMS
I think that John's parents were William Maskrey & Mary Slater - 1st May 1805,St. Werburghs, Derby...... but that needs a bit more work to prove that.
I think Mary Adams is a bit more straight forward....
Baptism at Shirley - 30th June 1811
Mary ADAMS - parents = Berresford & Jane ADAMS
There was also a son Berresford Adams - 3rd July 1808
Pallot's Marriage index & Boyds index have Beresford Adams marrying Jane Hurt at Longford, Derbyshire in 1805.... but I can't see it on the IGI.
1841 = Piece182 /Book/Folio: 3/7 Page 8 - Shirley, Derbyshire
ADAMS, Berisford, aged 60
ADAMS, Jane, aged 55
ADAMS, Jane, aged 24
ADAMS, Elizabeth, aged 20 - - - all born in county
~ ~ ~
1851 = Piece 2146/ Folio 90/ Page 9 - Derby Lane, Shirley, Derbyshire.
Berresford ADAMS, Head, Widower, aged 73 - Labourer born Thorpe, Derbyshire
Samuel NORMANSHAW, Son, Married - aged 23 - Ag Labourer - born Middleton, Derbyshire
Jane NORMANSHAW, Daughter - Married, aged 23 - born Shirley, Derbyshire
Elizabeth NORMANSHAW - Grand Daughter, 0 (2 MOS),born Shirley, Derbyshire
~ ~ ~ ~
JANE ADAMS & Samuel NORMANSHAW - 16 May 1850 - Shirley, Derbyshire, England
Jane Adams died 1846
Beresford Adams died 1859
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Dizzifish,
many thanks for latest update which seems promising and consistent with other online information that I have come across:
John Maskrey born Shirley, Derbyshire 1807 to William Maskrey (1779-1852) and Mary Slater (1785-?). John married Mary Adams (1811-1881) and had 8 children -
William Maskrey (1835-?), Jane Maskrey (1838-?), John Maskrey (1841-1841), Louisa Maskrey (1845-1865), George Maskrey (1848-?), Berrisford James Maskrey (1850-1852), Thomas Maskrey (1852-?), Joseph Maskrey (1856-1936).
This information seems to be consistent with 1851 Census (your post 76) which relates to family i am interested in. The main inconsistency is there being a John Maskrey aged 8 listed in 1851 census with the family extract above showing a John Maskrey being born and dying in 1841. Maybe they had subsequent child called John and a total of 9 children, or incorrect John shown......
The net seems to be closing in....
thanks for your continuing assistance
Haff
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Just to embellish Sheila's report on the 1841 Census......baptisms direct from Shirley PR's
William aged 15 does not appear in the PR's under any spelling (but Sheila will find him !!)
JOHN baptised 03.05.1841 died as infant beuried 11.05.1841
replacement JOHN baptised 01.01.1843''
Louisa baptised 04.10.1846
George baptised 25.06.1848
Beresford baptised 06.04.1851
Thomas 11.11.1852
Joseph 09.03.1856
The burial which looks like John senior took place 26.05.1856..aged 64....
and my previous post was stated as ifs and buts Sheila!!
Derek.
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Dizzi....you say that the marriage of John Maskrey to Mary Adams is more straight forward..one slight problem with that is that it doesn't appear in the Shirley PR's.........which doesn't disbar it, but based only on IGI needs confirmation.
The other slight niggle is John 1807.....could easily be baptised at Wirksworth and sayhe was from Shirley...if you look at the excellent Wirksworth sit, you'll see that all sorts of places appear as the origins of people baptised or married at Wirksworth..and don't forget that PR's often have an entry OTP..."of this Parish".........which means at the time of the marriage, not necessarily the place of Birth....I have an impenetrable brick wall in my own family..my GGGGrandfather.married at Ashford in the Water......both parties OTP..but neither were born or baptised their....end of story.
Derek.
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Hi Derek...
The John Maskery & Mary Adams is showing has having taken place 21st May 1832 at Shirley - M058941
Another piece of information which adds weight to that is....
The Derby Mercury - Wednesday, May 30,1832
Marriage - On the 21st inst, at Shirley in this county, by the Rec. A.W. Shirley - Mr John Maskery, to Miss Mary Adams, all of that place.
~ ~ ~
In response to your comment " and my previous post was stated as ifs and buts Sheila!!" .......which is fair enough in the lack of any other candidates.... but you said you have the Shirley P/R's.
I notice you have made an addition to your last post and I don't understand your comment "The other slight niggle is John 1807". The fact of the matter is.... he says on the 1851 he was born there, his baptism indicates he was born there. I do know people stated OTP on their marriages when they were not actually born there.
Sheila.
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Thanks Sheila........I tend to rely on my Pr's too much..and of course they are not perfect....must admit your Newspaper evidence is compelling............keep up the good work...certainly keeps me on my toes!
Derek
However....lol....are we or are we not..agreed that John Maskrey/Maskery/Maskerry/Mascary.....was actually NOT baptised at Shirley 1807????...so why not Wirksworth??
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That's OK Derek.... all I am concerned with, is we are giving Haff the full story.
But sorry to say I can't agree about John Maskrey and name variants and his 1807 baptism.... :D
I say he was baptised at Shirley = John Mascrey - 11th January 1807 at Shirley - parents William & Mary = IGI C058942
Is it the spelling of Mascrey why he is elusive? is there any way you could search using just the date of 11th January 1807?
Sheila.
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Hi Derek.... :)
Another spelling variant for you with the William you couldn't find.
Baptism at Shirley
IGI C058941 = William Mascary - 8th Oct 1837 - parents William & Mary
Sheila.
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Hi again Sheila.........I'm sure you're right about John 1807..but over the years i have become paranoid about relying on FamilySearch without confirmation..and in this case even the MASCERY entry is not in the PR's..............just as a matter of interest the full list of (phonetically similar) Mascary's is as follows:-
Baptisms:
Mascary 4..including Jane daughter of John and Mary 02.09.1838...1 marriage
Mascery 1 only..........1 burial
Mascree 1 only..1 burial
Mascrey 5...1 burial
Maskerry 4.....5 burials
Maskery 39...9 marriages..28 burials
Maskre 4....all 18th Century...1 marriage
Maskrey 5......6 marriages...9 burials
Maskry 1 only...1 burial
on the bright side...I think you've nailed the marriage of John maskery to Mary Adams...who was baptised 30.06.1811..one of six children of Beresford and Jane.......largely on the basis that one of their children was called Beresford...........not a very common first name!!
..........AND.......William Mascary 08.10.1837.......as you say..is entered as son of William and Mary.....but surely he's supposed to be the son of JOHN and Mary...to go with Jane baptised a year later........nightmare!!!!!!!
.and you're dead right..the main thing is to give Haff as much potentially correct info as possible....we might hit something that turns out to be cast iron cert...........in the meantime I'll have another Scotch!
Derek.
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Sheila/Derek,
wow....Just catching up on things and amazed at amount of info that you have come up with.
Seems that Derek still has concerns re John's baptism and, like me, surprised that Williams parents shown as William and Mary rather than John and Mary.
I am not really familiar with IGI records - just wondered how reliable they are/how you can form view on their reliablilty etc.
thanks again.
Haff
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Hi Haff.... :)
Re your comment: " I am not really familiar with IGI records - just wondered how reliable they are/how you can form view on their reliability etc."
My view on that is: The IGI is only a finding aid and the original record should be consulted to determine the entry as fact.It is a great tool to help find baptisms and marriages and help with ideas of other parishes as to where to look next etc, but you can't beat viewing the actual entry... and very often the original has extra info which is not in the index.
The IGI is a database of genealogical records by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latterly Saints and created to help track the temple ordinances for the deceased. Information comes from various sources, such as; records extracted from microfilmed birth & marriage records but also comes from "community contributed", which is personal family information which was submitted to the LDS. The community contributed stuff is known to have some dubious content!
I have revisited my previous posts and realise the William 8Th Oct 1837 - parents William & Mary.... is not the correct William.... his parents should of course be John & Mary and their William was born about 1836 and his baptism is not showing as taken place at Shirley....... :'(
Just out of interest the other William is with his parents here in 1851 = HO107/Piece2146/ Folio 89/Page 7 - Shirley, Derby's.
But.... the good news is, Derbyshire Record Office are in the process of digitising the parish records plus other things, such as workhouse records and the last I heard was, it's hoped they will be online, maybe in 2014 on a pay to view basis. I can't wait, then we can all be Derbyshire specialists!
Regards
Sheila.
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Sheila,
many thanks for the insight on IGI records. Sounds like a good site if used carefully.
Good news re Derbyshire records being digitised.
Haff
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I have the parish records for Shirley and quite a few baptisms and marriages are missing.
There is some banns and how many times they were read in there.Many of my relations are from
Shirley and I sent for a marriage that didn't appear in the parish records and they were married at Shirley Church so somehow missed out on the parish records. :-[
Meercat.
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Hi Meercat.... :)
Thanks for sharing that about Shirley registers.... someone else has told me that the marriage I found on the IGI and in the newspaper article was for the reading of banns and for some reason doesn't appear in the actual registers.
One Nottinghamshire parish register I frequent quite often,is known to have many omissions, between 1836 & 1847 the registers had been badly kept, with the vicar just copying stuff onto loose papers! No wonder we can't find those elusive baptisms.
Sheila.
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Hi Meercat..as usual.an invaluable contribution..
Derek..(GenesReunited)
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Hi Haff,
I don't know if you have managed to get any further with the Maskrey family, but I did manage a very quick look at Shirley records.
The banns do appear and it does seem some marriages are missing for some reason; just not recorded at the time by the vicar....... just as Meercat said.. ;)
The banns were read : May the 6th;13th & 20th by W.A. Shirley. and both John Maskrey & Mary Adams were of the parish.
Sheila.
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Hi Derek,
I am trying to find out more information on William Finney who married Mary Fox [FullwoodHall]
at Bradfield 13 July 1718.
Do you have these parish records and is there any further information about him?
I have lots on his descendants and lots on Mary Fox, but can't get any further back with him.
Cheers.
B.
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Is there a Bradfield in Derbyshire as well as in Yorkshire? Or are they the same place? :D
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I think it's one of those places that could never make up its mind which County it belonged to. Certainly it straddles the border..but Batch Numbers have it in Yorkshire with a whole series of Parish records, whilst there aare none in Derbyshire
But it appears, by Google, that both counties lay claim to it..........either way..the above marriage does not appear......
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Ah, I'm an ejit. I've been so busy following the Mary Fox line in Derbyshire, I forgot that Bradfield comes under the Yorkshire parish records, under Fenney.
The name chops and changes. I have been trying to see if there is a link to known Derbyshire Finney/Fynney/Fenney.
Mary Fox's mother was Mary Pole from Park Hall, so quite a bit of information on both Fox/Pole side but the Fenney side....?
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In that case Derek, can you find a Joseph Shaw born 1771 in Chapelry of Bradfield, place is taken from his marriage certificate, age from death cert and 1841 census, may have brother or father called William.
Or tell me where I should look.
Please.
:)
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Hi Jopeg............it appears that the Chapelry of Bradfield is in the Parish of ECCLESFIELD, six miles from Sheffield. Yet elsewhere there is a statement that Bradfield id the largest PARISH in the country.......which is very confusing......
However I have looked at the Ecclesfield Parish records and the nearest I can get to an answer for you is:
JOSEPH SHAW baptised 09.06.1771....William Shaw baptised 20.04.1777...........both sons of John Shaw.
There is also a William son of William 05.06.1763
Derek.
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Brokentypewriter.....................I refer you in part to the message above i sent to Jopeg.....
Your marriage of William Fenney to Mary Fox does appear........but only as a submitted entry on IGI...as having taken place at Bradfield.
There are some records of events at Bradfield rather than at Ecclesfield..Bradfield does have its own church..even thought the Parish is Ecclesfield...........There is no marriage at Ecclesfield either...
However......these may interest you, being so close after 1718:-
Anne Fenney baptised 07.05.1721.......Mary Fenney baptised 29.07.1719.............both at Bradfield..both daughters of one WILLIAM FENNEY............co-incidence?????? I think not.
Derek
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Thanks Derek
Will see if William gives any clues.
A lot of Shaws....
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Thank you Derek, good to know of the Ecclesfield link. Appreciate your efforts.
Regards
B.
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Hi Derek,
I was hoping to take up your offer of lookups in Derbyshire.
I am seeking details of any children born to John & Sarah Bowden in Glossop.
I know of a Jane Maria Bowden who was born in Glossop in 1838, but there may be others.
My main aim is to discover Sarah's maiden name, which is proving very illusive.
Anything you can do for me is appreciated.
Regards,
Chris.
Adelaide, Australia.
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Hello Chris..we have a number of problems here......There are a number of John and Sarah Bowdens in the area, and its very difficult to determine which is which.
One problem is that we have a place called Tintwistle..which is just north of Glossop...and is generally regarded as being in Derbyshire.........BUT is historically in Cheshire......So this gives us more difficluties when we look for Bowdens in Cheshire who moved to Glossop.
Another difficulty is that John Bowden didn't stick around too long after 1841............
The 1851 Census gives SARAH BOWDEN 1806 widow..washerwoman BORN IRELAND!!..with two children Thomas 1834 and Jane 1838..Thomas born Tintwistle Cheshire.and Jane (Naria) 16.09.1838 Glossop.
Sarah appears on the 1861 but she is alone.......
On the other hand there is an 1841 entry for JOHN and SARAH BOWDEN..both born 1806 in Glossop..with three children.......Esther 1835 Samuel 1837 and John 1840.............it is interesting that these three children do not conflict with the other two.......it is possible that there were five children..except that Sarah in 1841c is shown born Glossop, not Ireland............which is not in itself totally fatal..because there could be a number of reasons for it......I have a John Bowden baptised Glossop 10.11.1839 son of John and Sarah......
If sarah was born in Ireland we are unlikely to find her..having married before 1837..and probably in Derbyshire rather than in Ireland anyway............
I have two possible marriages:
John Bowden to SARAH GARSIDE 04.08.1823............and more likely...John Bowden to SARAH HOWARD 01.09.1833..........but being before 1837 any copy of a marriage will only have the grooms father on it.........will not tell you the parents of the bride.
I'll keep looking.....
Derek
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Hi Derek,
Wow! Thank you so much for all the information.
It has given me lots to re-consider.
I had thought I had found Sarah Bowden in 1841 living in Tintwistle (HO 107/100/18, page 6).
Sarah Bowden-45-N.
Sarah Bowden-23-Y.
Martha Bowden-21-Y.
Mary Bowden-18-Y.
Thomas Bowden-21-N.
John Bowden-17-Y.
Josiah Bowden-14-Y.
Thomas Bowden-7-Y.
James Bowden-3-Y.
Obviously this is more than one family group as there are 2 Thomas'.
I was also assuming that 3 yr old James was actually Jane, and entered incorrectly.
But now I am not so sure about this.
My known ancestor is Mary Bowden who was born in Stockport in 1824. She married Thomas Sidebottom in 1842. So she seems to fit with the family above.
I also found a possible first child (Sarah Ann) to a John & Sarah born in Stockport in 1818.
She seems to fit the census above also, but then I found a good marriage fit for her in 1840 to a Thomas Oldham in Stockport. So now I'm very confused.
Then followed 3 others in Stockport, and then 3 in Mottram.
Do you have any access to the birth certificate of Jane Maria who was born 16-9-1838 in Glossop?
I assume it would have Sarah's maiden name recorded. And that could be very helpful.
I might look into the possibility that I am joining family groups here.
Please feel free to pass on anything else you can find.
Regards,
Chris.
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Hi Chris...the Birth Certificate does indeed include the Mother's maiden name...but this is nowhere recorded except on that very Certificate..which needs to be purchased..the cheapest way of doing which.will cost £10.00 ish......do NOT purchase it through Ancestry of FindMyPast..it is vastly over-priced..get it from the appropriate Registration District direct.
The Parish record for the birth of Jane Maria.which I have seen at Matlock...gives simply Jane and Sarah Bowden as parents.....but freebies don't include Certificates.
Derek
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Hi,
I've hit a wall with my research into my Farrand Family Tree. The farthest I can trace back on my paternal line is to Francis Farrand b 1880. Census records indicate that he was born/ from Glapwell and I have a record from familysearch.org of a christening in the Bolsover parish records on 21st October 1780. There's no other information there, other than his Father's name (also Francis) and a Mothers first name of Anne. I can find a marriage in 1764 for Francis, marrying a Mary Hodgkinson on the 2nd March in 1764 also in Bolsover.
Would it be possible to do a look up on these records, and alternatively, do you happen to know if it's possible to get original images for these registers to see if I can do some transcribing, as there are very limited resources for this and the Scarsdale hundred online.
Many thanks in advance.
Sarah Farrand
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Hello Derek
I have just discovered this forum and am hoping your kind offer about look-ups in Derbyshire PRs is still 'on', as I am interested in knowing what the original registers may say about certain spellings.
I am researching the COWLEY family who lived in Ashover in the 16th & 17thC. The early PRs were destroyed in the Civil War but I have been able to piece things together using wills & other docs back to Robert who died in 1584.
I am now on a mission to try to discover whether there is a link between the many early Cowleys in Gloucestershire & those in Derbyshire. Searching recently for Cowleys in Gloucestershire took me to several intriguing entries from the ECKINGTON entries at Family Search.
I don't know if my questions are due to abbreviations with which I'm not familiar or errors/difficulties in transcription from the original handwritten register entries.
I am particularly interested in the names:
- Mary COWLEY AB DARY, &
- Robert COWLEY AB SARDUS
Both came up in a search (in FamilySearch) for Cowleys in Gloucestershire, but actually relate to a christening in Eckington, Derbyshire, as follows:
Name: Mary Cowley Ab Dary
Christening Date: 06 Apr 1666 Eckington, Derbyshire
Father's Name: Robert Cowley Ab Sardus
What could Ab Dary & Ab Sardus mean? Is it really ‘Ab’ or perhaps a misreading of ‘Al’ for ‘Alias’?
I'm also interested in
- Robte COWLEY OR DARBY
- Easter COWLEY ABS DAEY, &
- Robert COWLEY OR DAVY
as follows:
Name: Cowley Or Darby
Christening: 05 Oct 1662 Eckington, Derbyshire
Father's Name: Robte Cowley Or Darby
Name: Easter Cowley Abs Daey
Gender: Female
Death Place: Eckington, Derbyshire
Burial Date: 12 Jul 1677
What could Abs Daey mean?
Name: Robert Cowley Or Davy
Christening: 04 Sep 1653 Eckington, Derbyshire
Father's Name: Robte Cowley Or Davy
Could Davy just be a misreading of the handwritten Dary?
If you have anything in your records or could offer any suggestions that could answer my questions, I should be most grateful to hear from you.
Best wishes for 2015!
:)
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Hello Kitty..and a very Happy New Year........
I am..like everybody else, working from other people's interpretations of what they have read on any originals.......I have spent many a long hour on original records ,with varying degrees of legibility or the opposite, and often you have to rely on gut feelings, or likelihoods based on commonsense.
This is legitimate for us researchers, as long as what we pass on is clearly stated as "best guesss"....
Depending as i am on other peoples transcriptions, i would suggest you work along the following guidelines..........the two names are Cowley..and Darby.......there are no other variations in the Eckington records............"Abs" is simply a misreading, or a mis-spelling of "Alias"
For instance the Burial of EASTER COWLEY 12.07.1677 is followed by..."al.....ias Darby"
I'm sure your information is correct, though i can only go back to 1664...from whence the records are more or less complete through to 1813..........with a continuous and lengthy set of COWLEYS.
There only appear three DARBYS between 1669 and 1683..all Burials and all Elizabeth Darby....so i have no idea at this stage where the darby connection lies...........but I'll keep looking for a bit.
I would also suggest that "Robert Ab Sardus"..may be Robert Alias Darby
All the best
Derek.
Addition Friday........I'm currently reading about Jasper Tudor.the uncle of Henry VII..........and am having to plough through his Welsh genealogy...........much of which is "ap Meredudd...or ap Gynedd"........."ap" being very definitely."son of"............but every now and again it is written "ab"...which apparently is a regional variation with the same meaning...........was just thinking that your Gloucestershire links could at some point have Welsh origins........."ab" could easily be "son of".
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Hi Derek
Hope you are still doing these lookups.
Looking for the marriage of Edwin crossley and ann ball. They married in belper in the 1st quarter of 1853 (freebmd). I’m looking for their fathers names in particular, I have edwins dad as Thomas and anns dad as William, although I’m not sure about anns dad. Any help would be much appreciated, many thanks, Glyn.
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Hello Glyn..yep I'm still at it..but mainly by EMail or on Genes Reunited........Your enquiry is slightly complicated by the fact that EDWIN CROSSLEY was non-conformist...
He was born 14.01.1829 and baptised 01.03.1829 at Wesleyan Chapel Cromford Circuit..son of Thomas Crossley and Harriet (Harriott) nee Cathness who were married 09.03.1825...
ANN BALL was born 12.07.1828 and baptised 10.08.1828 daughter of William and Sarah.
The Crossley side of the equation are from Tansley/Crich according to successive Censuses..but do not appear in either of the two appropriate parish records...simply because of the Wesleyan connection.
However, two daughters of Thomas and Harriet..i.e. brothers of Edwin WERE married at Tansley:-
Eliza Crossley 25.12.1846 to Henry Bartlett
Emma Crossley 07.05.1868 to Joseph BALL (!)..
I have pretty well all there is to know about the Crossleys..have yet to really study the Balls..
Alwayshere if you need anymore............or send me your EMail by pM.
Derek.
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thanks for that derek
thats a bit to keep me going. looks like i'll have to order marriage cert to be sure of anns father,
cheers, Glyn
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Glyn..there won't be a Birth Certificate in 1828..the Marriage Certificate for 1853 will give her father's name and his Occupation. We know his name is William.his occupation will hep tie down WHICH William....I'll see if i can find him on the 1851/1861 Census......with his Occupation....
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Derek
i cant find him (william) on any 1841 or 1851 censuses, which leads me to believe he either died before 1841 or he seperated from his wife for some reason. i have william married to a sarah hibbert on 12 aug 1824 in tansley critch. i think sarah was born in dronfield, christened 5 nov 1800, parents are abraham hibbert and sarah raisen. in the 1841 census for tansley theres a ann ball age 11 living with sarah sellors and charles sellors. sarahs age is given as 35, charles is 25. in the 1851 census, anns still with charles and sarah, but now theres an ellen ball with them. sarah is 50, ann is 22 and ellen is 18. what i cant understand is why ellen isnt on the 1841 census if shes 18 in 1851.
Glyn
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I'm still looking.........
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http://www.crichparish.co.uk/webpages/baptistregister1839.html on page 2 of this register it shows a sarah sellors as being excluded in 1839. dont know if this is the same person, although i suspect it is.
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Hello Derek, I am hoping you are still willing and able to do a parish register look-up. I am looking for Joseph Creswell and Mary Hawly who married 15 Apr 1771 at Horsley. Apparently both were residents of Woodhouse at the time of marriage (Phillimore parish registers).
Have you information regarding baptismal dates for Joseph and Mary? My information is Joseph was born around 1742 and Mary around 1750 but neither of these are verified. I have done searches in the usual places.
I have information on their children. Their eldest child Francis Cresswell is my direct ancestor.
Thanks, marp
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Hi Derek!
I am looking for some information on the marriage of James Minton who married Martha Sutton by license on 23 Sept 1802 at St Peters Church Derby. Was he a widower.
Also the burial of Mary Minton 20 July 1801 at Aston upon Trent.
Thank you Liz
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Hi Liz
The image of the burial is on this site, but no other information is given.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11778-20148-70?cc=1911752&wc=34JF-JW1:1581159903,1581163401,1581163403
On the Phillimore marriage entry for James Minton it just states he was from Shardlow and married by licence
Carol
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Carol
Thanks for your interest.
Liz
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Please do you have any records for Clay Cross? The person I am looking for is Stephen BIRKUMSHAW. He was born Q3 1872 and died Q2 1944. Would love a bit more detail if there is any. Thanks. Di
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In your own time.
Any birth , marriage or buriel of a John short. Son Lawrence born dronfield Derbyshire 1769.
Johns father was also a John short. The grandfather married Caroline Emma hay. The father married Anne slate
Many thanks.
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Hi Yasmina4
There is this marriage
John Short, yeoman & Ann Slate both of Dronfield married by licence 16 Feb 1768
Carol
Edit - I've had a quick look at the licence and not a lot more information is given. They were both aged 21 and upwards and she was a spinster. James Rossington of Dronfield was also mentioned
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Briefly..Stephen Birkumshaw born Clay Cross July 1872..son of Joyhn henry Birkumshaw (Whitwick Leics 1848) and Ann...he married Sarah J Lee Chesterfield District 1896..and had at elasr two children..James Henry B..and Stephen eric B..
His grandparents were Stephen(1821 Heanor) and Georgiana.............there is a whole lot more, that I personally have had cause to research..depends what you're looking for.
Derek
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Oh my. Thats a turn up for the boks.
Thank you so much.
This man John Short was described as John Short, formerly of Madras, of Dronfield, Dronfield. His son Lawrence became the Rector of Ashover and married gentry. Lawrence married Eleanor Holwell who came from very grand lineage. Relatives have traced them back. Lawrence son william married welsh gentry. and other sons did well. we had thought that this Jhn short was gentry too.
Any sign of John short senior and caroline Hay please.
Very grateful.
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What year did he marry Eleanor? It looks like he was married before?
12 Aug 1794 Dronfield
Laurence Short 25, Rev'd Clerk, bac & Sarah Staneforth 26, spinster by licence
Carol
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Hi Derek
Re Stephen Birkumshaw - what I would like to know if possible is where he died and was he buried in Clay Cross. I understand the gravestones have been lifted at St Bartholmews so don't know if he should be there.
If you need any more info about this family I may be able to help.
Di
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It looks like more Sarah may have died in childbirth
23.6.1795 Sarah wife of Laurence Short, Reverend, Ashover
1.7. 1795 Jane da of Laurence Short, Reverend, Ashover.
Carol
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yes he was married twice.
i see baby died within two weeks so sad.
think he retired to scarborough.
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Hello Derek,
I am just wondering if I could trouble you any information whatsoever about Ellen Wolter (m. William Henry E Wolter), born around 1864 and died in the last quarter of 1899 in Buxton. Ellen's maiden name was Cantrell. Anything at all would be a great help!
Thank you kindly in advance, and I look forward to your response!
Erin
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Hello Erin..this may take some time.....Ellen Cantrell married William Henry E Wolter in Chorlton Lancashire first Qtr 1898............so they apparently did not have long together....and would not have appeared on any Census together........
At this stage there is no evidence that Ellen belonged in Buxton..and I am about to look for all possible births............you will know that there will be loads of them.......and I suggest that a marriage Certificate might be the only way to find out where she was born...
I'll get back to you.
Derek.
EDIT later........It looks as if Ellen may have been born in Staffs..mayber Stoke on trent..possible parents George and Hannah........one or two possible conflicts in thsi...she appears on 1871..1881 and 1891...first at Sheen Satffs..or Stoke..then as a servant in Devon..and also as a srvant in Hartington in Derbys........
William Henry E Wolter.....was of course a German subject..who appears only on the 1901 (poss 1911 also i haven't looked yet)..as a Widower..and a Hairdresser in Stockport Cheshire..no children.
It looks like he arrived from Germany too late to appear on the 1891 Census..married Ellen 1898..who died 1899.....
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Hello Derek
I have a 1991 GRO copy of an 1864 Derbyshire marriage and I've begun to wonder if some of the details, especially concerning the bride, have been copied correctly. Would it be possible for you to check?
My copy details are as follows:
1864 Marriage at the Parish Church in the Parish of St. Peter Derby in the County of Derby.
No 218 - 26 December 1864
William Stone - Full - Bachelor - Labourer - Barrow's Walk - William Stone - Labourer
Mary Ann Blower - 18 - Spinster - Barrow's Walk - George Blower - Coachman
William Stone signs X
Mary Ann Blower signs her name
Witnesses:
George Horsley signs his name
Elizabeth Brookes signs her name
Thank you in advance and look forward to hearing if it is possible for you to check this.
sami
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Hello again Derek!
Thank you so much for looking for Ellen for me! I do appreciate it quite a bit. I am currently in the process of trying to find someone to help me locate Ellen and Wilhelm's marriage certificate in Manchester. I do know the church at which they were married and the date, but have had no luck with the parish record for 1898 being online so far. Nevertheless, given how quickly after their marriage Ellen died, I am very curious as to what happened!
I have looked through the censuses that you have mentioned and I do agree that the Ellen who appears as a servant in Devon seems most likely. I must confess that much of my interest in her situation is in fact due to her husband Wilhelm. To provide a brief background: presently I am an archaeology student in Canada, and am working on research into the personal histories of German civilians who were placed in Internment Camps under the War Measures Act during WWI. Wilhelm was unfortunately interned due to his German origins in May 1915, and died in May 1918 in a camp in British Columbia. I have located him in the 1911 census in Sheffield, living with his second (as far as I know...) wife, Stella Lizzie Cooper, and her daughter, Adela. They were married only a few days after the 1901 census in Stockport.
Again, thank you for your time and I appreciate the information. If you do happen to come across anything else about Ellen in the future that you can pass along, I would be very grateful!
Best regards,
Erin
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hello Sami........yes.there does appear to be some problem with MARY ANN BLOWER..who looks to have been born 1846 in NORTHWICH Cheshire.........the marriage certificate entries i can confirm only insofar as they are so published. but the northwich birth is OND..so she would not have been 18 on marriage in 1864.......another possibility seems to be Wolverhampton
But the census entries are a puzzle........there are TWO William Stones married to Mary Ann.....but the one who looks favourite was married in 1850 to MARY ANN GELL.this family being aroun in Belper at the appropriate time......
One way in might be if you are aware of any children of the Marriage for which you have the certificate..becasue it would help to pin down the correct William Stone..other anomalies can be sorted out later...........for instance I should be able to find parents for Mary Ann Blower, knowing that the father was George Blower.
Both William Stones appear to have fathers called William...........
I'll get back to you.
Derek.
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...........for instance I should be able to find parents for Mary Ann Blower, knowing that the father was George Blower.
Hello Derek......Thank you for looking into this for me :)
But before you get too far tracing William Stone.....I know that this is the correct marriage entry:
26 Dec 1864 - William Stone and Mary Ann Blower. They have 2 children (Samuel b. 1865 and Mary Ann b. 1868). William Stone dies in 1869 and Mary Ann Stone marries again in 1871.
01 Nov 1871 - Thomas Archer and Mary Ann Stone. They have 10 children with Samuel and Mary Ann Stone being part of the family. My direct ancestor is one of the Archer children not one of the Stone children.
My problem has always been that I've never been able to find Mary Ann's birth or parents based on the information given in that 1864 marriage to William Stone. So I wondered if the information on Mary Ann Blower's father (George) and her age (18) had been copied incorrectly from the original parish record.
I do think Mary Ann was born with a different surname (possibly Sedgwick) as I know most of the Mary Ann Blower registered births have not been for my Mary Ann.
It sounds like the information on the marriage certificate was copied correctly from the original parish register. So I'm back to thinking Mary Ann's fathers name - George - and her age - 18 - were fictitious. I was hoping that her father's name would have been Joseph rather than George.
Thank you again for taking the time to do some looking. Your help is much appreciated :)
sami
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Hi Derek,
I hope you're still very kindly offering look-ups! Could you please help me with some people - Peter Turner & Martha Swindells. They married in 1796 in Hope. I haven't seen the original so I'm not entirely sure what town they came from. From the 1841 census they both came from Derbyshire. Martha was born around 1774 and Peter Turner in around 1766 (according to their death records). Any help you can provide would be fantastic, I've been a bit stuck on these two for a little while!
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Peter Turner was NOT baptised at hope....but MARTHA SWINDELL was....baptised 30.03.1767..one of three daughters of John and Jane Swndell...Ellen was baptised 16.10.1761..and Jane 01.11.1759....the record is confusing but John Swindell appears to have married 16.04.1759 at Hope.
Peter and Martha lived in Chapel en le Frith..and were married at Hope 26.09.1796.
Their only appearance on the Census is, as you say, in 1841..and Peter died the following year..buried just over the road in Taxal Cheshire........
Peter was baptised n Chapel en le Frith 15.05.1768..son of Peter (from Tideswell)..which does not mean he wasn't born 1766..just means he may not have been baptised till 1768......Martha's birth date of 1774 appears not to exist anywhere.......and I suggest 1767 is probably right.
Derek.
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Hi Derek:
You have helped me with a previous question - for which I thank you again :)
I wonder if you can help with the following birth:
Tilly Nevill Nixon - birth registered 4rth qu 1860 - Derby Derbyshire.
I am curious about her because of the combination of names as it may relate to my family. But I can not locate her other than this birth registration. I can't find any census entries, a marriage or a death. The GRO birth reg does not show her mother's maiden name.
I'm wondering if it is possible for you to locate a baptism for her? If I could find out her mother's name at least it may give me a start.
Thank you in advance,
sami
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Peter Turner was NOT baptised at hope....but MARTHA SWINDELL was....baptised 30.03.1767..one of three daughters of John and Jane Swndell...Ellen was baptised 16.10.1761..and Jane 01.11.1759....the record is confusing but John Swindell appears to have married 16.04.1759 at Hope.
Peter and Martha lived in Chapel en le Frith..and were married at Hope 26.09.1796.
Their only appearance on the Census is, as you say, in 1841..and Peter died the following year..buried just over the road in Taxal Cheshire........
Peter was baptised n Chapel en le Frith 15.05.1768..son of Peter (from Tideswell)..which does not mean he wasn't born 1766..just means he may not have been baptised till 1768......Martha's birth date of 1774 appears not to exist anywhere.......and I suggest 1767 is probably right.
Derek.
Thank you so much! It probably is right. She may have lowered her age a bit, heh.
I see what you mean by confusing, since John married a Margaret. I looked for John and Jane & found a marriage in Macclesfield Forrest for John Swindell and Jane Ford in 1755 along with a child William... but his wife Jane dies in 1758 in Rainow.
There are some baptisms of children of a John & Jane Swindell in Wormhill (Anne in 1756 and Mary in 1763). They might be from my family?
EDIT: Found John Swindell marrying Jane Hodgkinson in Tideswell, John from Wormhill. I'd say they're the right family. Thank you once again for this stepping stone to work from :)
EDIT 2. According to a one name Swindell study I just found (fivenine.co.uk) that has registers of Tideswell, Martha died not long after she was born. Buried in Tideswell in April 1767 :-\
Thanks for the info on Peter as well! Nice to finally break down this brick wall :)
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Hello again Sami..I have searched high and low, as you have..including MATILDA..which of course is the full name of Tilly,,,several possible options, but nowhere in Derbyshire.
I suggest you get the Birth Certificate......don't get it through any websites such as Ancestry, which charge the earth..go to GRO..and it will cost you £9.25. Good luck
Derek
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Hello Deryk
Do you happen to have records for Glossop Wesleyan?
My Wyatt great grandparents were married there and I am anticipating that other Wyatt events may be found there.
with thanks
Rex
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Hello again Sami..I have searched high and low, as you have..including MATILDA..which of course is the full name of Tilly,,,several possible options, but nowhere in Derbyshire.
I suggest you get the Birth Certificate......don't get it through any websites such as Ancestry, which charge the earth..go to GRO..and it will cost you £9.25. Good luck
Derek
Hi Derek,
Thank you very much for having a look. She is a mystery. I'll go through the GRO and order a PDF cert. which they send by email. It costs 6.00 so it's a good bit less than the usual cost of 9.25.
Thank you again for giving it a try - I really appreciate your help :)
sami
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Hi Rex.....Very few Glossop Wesleyan and no Wyatt baptisms..was looking at your Ancesty tree..Benjamin (Ben Wyatt) seems to be your earliest and he was married in Anglican Church???
I have Wyatts of various branches back ti Joseph 1789 and James 1767 at Glossop...before that they seem to have been at Appleby parva in leicestershire????
f you give me your Wyatt Grandparents I might be able to find something you don't already know!!
Derek.
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Thank you Derek
My Wyatts lived at Blackshaw Farm Glossop.
I think tenancy was left to them by John Wood ( not the mill owner).
Most of my data can be found Ancestry at Thomas Family Tree.( Also Rex's Tree)
My known lineage commences with James Wyatt 1767-1840 = Glossop 1789 , Hannah Wood 1765-1838.Parents not known.
My great grandparents:
Joseph Wyatt 1788-1873 = 1823 Glossop , Ellen Bartle 1799-1872
Their children ( up to 1830 bpt Glossop >> then no bpt found ) I have registrations.
Hannah 1818-1861
James 1823-1882
John 1826-1907 may have found recently migrated to Maryborough Queensland.
Dorothy 1838-1892
Cephas 1830-1905
------
Charles 1833- ??? not accounted for.
Mary Ann 1836-1897
Ellen 1838-1922
Joseph 1842-1911 = 1863 Wesleyan Chapel Glossop , Martha Garlick Hadfield 1838-1893 came to Australia.
Thomas 1844-1911 = 1874 Audenshaw , Sarah Jane Stone , then came to Australia.
Benjamin Wyatt related but a branch.
I will be most appreciative if you can help me.
Rex
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Hi Derek
I am looking for the names of the parents of Horace Wright born in the 3rd quarter 1917 and registered in Chesterfield. He died 1st August 1987, Chesterfield.
He married Martha Parkin in 1940, Chesterfield and married again to Florence Broadhead in 1964, Dronfield.
Thanking in advance
Steve
New Zealand
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deleted
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Steve,,you'll need to purchase the actual Certificates of at a cost of £9.25.
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Hi Derek,
Did you find any info regarding Robert Mortin at Matlock records office? , sorry been away from this for a while due to personal issues,
Thanks,
Barry Mortin
bmortin9@hotmail.com
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Hi Derek
Would you happen to have time to see if you have a record of a marriage at Normanton Road Congregational Chapel in Derby please? William Wardman married a widow Charlotte Ann Crook nee West in Q4 of 1902.
Thanks very much.
Val
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Hello Val....unfortunately i do not have those records; but they are, or would be in normal times, available at Derbyshire Records Office at Matlock.............which of course is shut due to certain current conditions. All is not lost..if and when the world returns to what some of us regard as normal..the records you are looking for are specifically Marriages 1899-1903 D4931/2/1.
If things do return to normal and you are unable to get to Matlock..give me a yell.
All the best Derek.
Later..I don't know where you are in you research into this family..but I've had a quick look around.and Charlotte didn't seem to have had a very happy time..born 1869..seems to have married George Crook and been left a widow with two children by 1901..then married William Wardman in 1902.......who incidentally I can't find!! and neither of them appear to be on the 1911.
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Hello Derek
Thanks for the info - would you know if the Matlock records would have actual chapel records or just an index, as I'm after info such as age of William Wardman, father's name, address, anything else, because as you've found, this man is elusive.
I am being a cheapskate by trying to avoid paying for the marriage cert! See the related thread here: https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=828775.0
Charlotte did indeed have a life of problems, and going back through the generations too, as her own mother Ann was not living with her family at quite a young age after Ann's mother died. I found Ann's father and siblings scattered about in different households. Charlotte's parents had 11 children, 7 of which died before 1 year old, so she is a survivor! Her mother was widowed twice, her husband died young, and then William Wardman is a mystery without any other clues. Charlotte is in the 1911 census at her married sister's address, shown as married, but no William Wardman there. She was mistranscribed as Hardman, and the word could also be misread as Hardiman, so there are lots of possibilities in the 1911 census.
Val
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Hello Val..I think Matlock is an excellent source and I believe the detail with which they describe the archive suggests they have the full Records..........but don't bank on it.
I am a regular visitor to Derbyshire Records Office..and now you have presented me with the sort of problem I love I'll follow through..but obviously Matlock is closed. I'll find him!!
Do we agree that Charlotte came from East Farndon in Northants..that she married George Crook in Derbyshire.and also William Wardman (1902) in Derby??
I haven't looked yet, but are you aware which side of the family was Non conformist???? we'll have to find out what Charlotte was doing in Derby......just as a throw away..have you looked at William Wardman in Yorkshire???
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Thanks for your interest.
Yes Charlotte Ann West from E Farndon, Northants (reg office Market Harborough, Leices) married George Crook (b. 1869) in Nottingham not Derbyshire. I only have the index info so don't know the church/chapel details. They had two daughters, he died young (1897 in Basford - I haven't verified this but the date/location fits), then she married William Wardman in 1902, Q4. I'm not sure whether the West family were non-conformists - I have one of Charlotte's siblings christened at a CofE church but not checked the other children.
The Crook family were CofE - the children were christened in the church at Calne, Wilts, where they were all born, but George Crook's widowed mother Ann Crook nee Warren remarried in at a Primitive Methodist Chapel in Matlock Bank to William C Matthews (1889 Q4 Bakewell vol 7b page 1357).
I have quite a lot on the Crook family but William Wardman is a dead end until I can see more info on his marriage cert. I have looked at a few William Wardmans in search results but the ones I have looked at have a different spouse - I think, but of course I don't do what I should do which is to note my negative searches.
I suspect there is a transcription error and he's hiding in plain sight somewhere in the 1911 census.
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Is this her first marriage?
21st December 1892
St Saviour, Nottingham
George Crook
Charlotte Ann West
Transcription only
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Yes it is, altho' I didn't have the exact date, only the quarter, or the church. Thanks for that.
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Also, as Mrs Wardman, in the 1911 census she was listed as married, not a widow, (but was this an error?) in her sister Rosa May Coulson nee West's household in Queen St, Derby.
Tom and Rosa May Coulson (who had no children) emigrated to Canada in July 1913 and became Canadian citizens. I found the Coulson family interesting as in 1901 and 1911, Tom's father Alfred (from Scarborough area) was living in their household, in Derby, and his occupation was master mariner, and retired master mariner, respectively. He was missing from various earlier censuses so presumably at sea, while his wife and children were with his wife's father in Derby. Hence the Derby connection there. Alfred did not go to Canada - he died in 1912 in Derby with an address of the Arborteum Hotel, Osmaston Rd, Derby - has anyone come across this place?
Someone mentioned on another thread that William Wardman may have been a mariner, to account for missing census entries. I looked him up in the masters and mates database on Ancestry and he wasn't there, but he could have just been crew. There is the possibility that Charlotte met WW via her sister's in-laws, I suppose.
As an aside, the masters and mates database is fascinating as it lists ships, time at sea, addresses when applying to for the exam, and a job title I had not heard of before of 'Only Mate'. Master and First Mate - yes. But Only Mate? Need to look that one up. Sounds lonely!
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Hi again DerbysDerek
I do have another Derbyshire puzzle to whet your appetite, if you're keen?
I'm struggling with the Kirk family, from Chesterfield. I cannot find anyone from this family in the 1911 census, nor the father in the 1901 census, so guess the problem is bad handwriting meaning the names have been mistranscribed. Plus there are two daughters who may have married in the ten years between.
Here is what I have so far for the family, working backwards.
Samuel Kirk died aged 25 on 1 May 1914 in Greenwich Union Infirmary of TB and buried in Kensington and Chelsea's Hanwell cemetery. I have the infirmary admission records, his address on admission, occupation hairdresser. He was married to Rosina Bannister in Chesterfield on 26 Dec 1911, where the marriage cert states that he was a hairdresser, and his father was Richard Kirk, deceased, a fettler. The address on the marriage cert for both of them was that of Rosina and family in Spital.
In the 1891 census, the Kirk family were at 48 Chatsworth Rd, Brampton, Chesterfield. Father/head Richard Kirk, 24, born Chesterfield, was a blacksmith. Wife Annie Elizabeth nee Salt, 26, born Chesterfield. Children all born in Chesterfield, Lily, 4, Samuel, 2, Eliza 4 months. Mother-in-law Sarah Salt, 66, born Matlock, married, pillbox maker.
In the 1901 census, the family are at a different address, 40 Bank St, Chesterfield, as boarders in the Steele household. But only Annie Elizabeth Kirk, Lily, Samuel, Eliza and Arthur, age 8. Annie is shown as married, not a widow, but I cannot find Richard Kirk born Chesterfield in any search results. Interestingly Rosina and her family were living at 29 Bank St in 1901, so Samuel did marry the girl next door, nearly.
For 1911, I cannot find Richard (but he may have already died), or his wife (unless she had remarried by then - but I have searched for her using first names only, age, place of birth, and not got anywhere), or the daughters (now 24 and 20) but they may have married. If working away from home they should have shown up somewhere. The only likely Arthur Kirk I've found is shown as brother-in-law to the head, George Henry Dunk, but looking at FreeBMD, he married Alice Kirk. I haven't found a sister Alice Kirk for 'my' family though.
The whole family seems to have evaporated! With Samuel making a brief re-appearance in the records to marry, and then die young.
Any ideas please?
Val
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Hi,
Is this your Richard Kirk in 1901
RG 13/3249
Folio 156
Page Number 29
3 Rookery, Baslow Road Chesterfield
Richard Kirk boarder, 33, Married, Iron Fitter, born Chesterfield
Spendlove
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Thanks Spendlove - age, marital status, occupation, place of birth all fit don't they? I cannot see how I missed this when searching before. I swear Ancestry produces a different set of search results for the same info each time I look!
Thanks very much.
Wonder what the story was, for the father to be boarding at one address and his wife and children at another?
Baslow Rd (well, the current one anyway) is quite a way from Bank St, although both are given as in Brampton parish so I wonder if what is now called Chatsworth Rd was once Baslow Rd. I need to look at an old map to see where the Rookery was.
Wonder where/when Richard Kirk died? By the end of 1911 is all I have based on Samuel's marriage cert.