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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Angus (Forfarshire) => Topic started by: Jokdy on Sunday 19 September 10 00:58 BST (UK)
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Struggling to find them on the 1851 census, can some one else please have a look? It's driving me up the wall ???
Parents are Alexander Penny and Jean Bogie/Bogue, married in 1842 Dundee.
Two sons - James (1848) and Alexander (1845) both born in Dundee.
I have not been able to confirm the age of Alexander Sr or where he was born.
Jean died in October 1851, according to the death entry she was 27 years old and born in Dysart, Fife.
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I can find Alexander in 1841 before he married.
He's residing at Kirkton, Parish of Mains and Strathmartine with a family (Hutton) - he's down as a flax dresser and it says born in Angus.
I can find sons James and Alexander, living with Alexander's second wife Janet in 1861, at Dalfield Terrace, Dundee.
I thought even if Alexander Snr can't be found I could at least find first wife Jean and two sons in 1851, but no :(
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Jokdy, I think the children's births are the other way round:
Alexander: 09 MAY 1845
James: 20 MAR 1848
ADDED: Too early in the morning - you have the right years :P
This might be them in 1851 (a bit of a messy transcription) - no Alexander though :-\
David Penry 28, han (hair?) dresser b. Forfarshire
Jean Penry 27
Jean Penry 11
Jess Penry 4
Grav Penry 3
Jeas Penry 26, visitor, farmer's wife b. Forfarshire
Alia Penry 5, visitor b. Forfarshire
Jas Penry 3, visitor, b. Forfarshire
Address: Buck ?? Wynd, Dundee
Monica :)
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Ooo that could be a likely one couldn't it? Well done Monica :-* I was beginning to go cross eyed looking for this mob!
Only trouble is she's down as a farmer's wife and on her death entry a few month's later Alexander is still involved in the flax industry because he's down as a heckler. Not that 'farmer's wife' may be correct, she could have just fibbed a little - maybe?
Will have to look into David further and try and find out who his parents are - possible brother to Alexander?
Thank you :)
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Just did a quick look up on David, and there's a birth entry to Alexander Penny and Catherine Butchart in 1822. Another son coming up is a James Whyte Penny born 1829 (no sign of an Alexander but that means diddly squat back then).
My Alexander and Jean had a daughter called Catherine, she died less than four years of age - possibley named after Alexander's mother?
I'm sure on Jean's death entry or Catherine's death entry there's a Butchart's Land mentioned...will have to go check again.
Closing the gap.... thanks Monica I owe you one ;)
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In 1841, there is an Alexander Penny, 20, flax dresser b. Angus at Kirkton, Mains and Strathmartine, Angus. Relationship within the household not showing as with 1841 census norms.
Potential parents' marriage showing on 10 MAR 1817 Dundee, Angus, so could well fit for your Alexander :)
Monica
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There is one child showing for Alexander Penny and Janet Maxwell, David born on 03 JUL 1855 Dundee. Have you looked at this? Given it is an 1855 cert, it may give you extra info on father Alexander.
Monica
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Yes, I found the 1841 census for him last night and guessed it may have been him (see previous post above - it's with a Hutton family yes?) - it was the flax dresser bit that made me think it could be him.
I download the birth entry for David Penny last night too, since I have Alexander down as marrying a Janet Maxwell after the death of his first wife, and David came up on IGI as their son.
I've attached a little bit of his birth extract - it shows Alexander's occupation - do you think it says seaman?
I never noticed this last night (it was late and I was tired)...wonder if he changed occupations and hence the reason he's difficult to track on the censuses? Or have I got the wrong Alexander?
???
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Certainly occupation shows as Seaman MS (merchant service normally). Might well explain why he is not showing in 1861. Don't know if you have checked the original for 1861 to see what it says about Janet's marital status.
Have you found the family in 1871 or later censuses? Is it the sons you are tracing? If so, their marriage entries might give you clues regarding their father and his occupation also.
Monica
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Like you Jodky, can't see any sign of Alexander. There is a possible death showing for a Janet Maxwell/Penny in 1896 somewhere in Angus (haven't viewed the entry) with a birth year of 1825 which might fit.
A couple of census entries for this Janet (I think!):
1871:
Mrs Penny 53, Jute Weaver b. Dundee
Thomas Peddie 56, boarder b. Perth
Address: No 30 Hilltown, Dundee
1881:
Jessie Penny 64, Mill Worker b. Dundee
Thomas Peddie 70, ,lodger b. Perth
Address: No 30 Hilltown, Dundee
Can't easily see a death for Alexander.....wonder if something happened at sea?
Monica
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Yup have all those census entries down for her and have the sons and their marriages etc. Alexander showed up as deceased on both marriage extracts for James and Alex Jr (both married around 1870).
Just checked the original 1861 census as you suggested and she's down as widow - the thought hadn't even occurred to me to check it, so cheers :D
I had originally searched for a death and the only one that was a potential was 1868 - but it had no details regarding parents/wife etc. So he died sometime between 1855 and 1861...as you say, nothing's coming up on SP so he could well have died at sea.
I'm gonna go for the the 1851 census entry you found when Janet, James and Alex are down as visitors to David Penny...seems like that could be the one. As for Alex Snr - who knows - at sea perhaps.
Thanks for your help Monica. :)