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General => The Common Room => Topic started by: JosiahS on Monday 20 September 10 18:47 BST (UK)
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Hello there!
I have just come across the surname Agamber through the marriage of a Temperance Agamber to a James Harrosmith (Arrowsmith) on 27 November 1774 at Shoreditch St Leonard.
The surname seems really rare and I can find very few examples of it anywhere.
Does anyone have any knowledge of it? Does anyone know where it comes from?
Any assistance is very welcome
All the best
Ashley
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Hi,
A quick search of all records on FreeBMD shows a variety of registrations from 1845 - 1947; mainly in the London area.
Nanny Jan
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There's also 2 pages of records on http://www.pilot.familysearch.org ; earliest is a burial of Rachel in Stepney,1725, daughter of Abram Agamber.
Nanny Jan
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Hi Nanny
Yes I'd spotted that on the pilot site.
I've been getting a few more hits from the spelling AGOMBAR
Ashley
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According to this world surname profile site Agombar is mostly found in GB (but mostly is obviously a relative term!) http://worldnames.publicprofiler.org/Default.aspx whilst Agamber seems to be mostly found in India. Given that Spain appears on the Agombar list I wonder if the name could be Romany or Sephardi Jewish (tho' this latter group wouldn't account for India).
Ermy
Added: this previous thread seems to suggest that the name is Huguenot http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,433434.0.html
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After chasing this this evening I think they are French-ish as they are deffo appearing in the Huguenot church records.
I've seen spellings such as Agombard which looks more French too.
I'm doing this tree for a friend, and the amazing thing is that he links in with his best friend's tree via a marriage!!
Spooky!
Ashley
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Hello
This is Temperances line;
Temperance Agombar b.1756 Bethnal Green, London
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Jacques/James Agombar b.1731 Stepney, London +Katherine Butcher (Married 1750 Bethnal Green, London)
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Jacques/James Agombar b.1706 Stepney, London +Judith Flavan (Married 1730 Aldersgate, London)
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Pierre Agombar b.1675 St Quentin, Picardy, France +Marie Wishau (Married 1699 Stepney, London)
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Jacob Agombar b.1649 St Quentin, Picardy, France +Marie Brancourt Le Grand (Married 1669 St Quentin, Picardy, France)
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Jacques Salomon Agombar 1624 St Quentin, Picardy, France+ Anne Le Grand (Married 1648 St Quentin, Picardy, France)
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Nicolas Agombar 1590 circa. St Quentin, Picardy, France+Jehanne Peltier (Married 1610 St Quentin, Picardy, France)
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Jehan Agombar 1570 circa. St Quentin, Picardy, France + Francoise Maleziux
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Jehan Agombar 1540 circa. St Quentin, Picardy, France +Pasquette Massu
The family were originally from the village of Brancourt, just north of St Quentin. Her great grandfather Pierre came to England aged 10, with his mother and father, as refugees in November 1685. They were related by marriage to my Deverdun family also refugees from St Quentin at same time. They also, much later, married into my Bellengers in Bethnal Green. Hagombart or Agombart appears to have been the original spelling in France. Her two earliest ancestors it is not possible to know exactly when they married, as Protestant marriages had no legal status in France until 1598, so no records of these survive.
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As for it's origin, this is all I could find translated from a French website:
Hagombart:
Patronymic especially carried in Pas-de-Calais. It is probably from a person's name of germanic origin, Hildebod (hild = fights bod = messenger) according to M.T. Morlet, Agilbald (agil = blade of the sword bald = audacious) according to the Belgian author J. Lindemans. The name is found in Belgium under forms Ellebode, Elleboode, Elleboudt. Probable variants: Hellebois, Hellebosch, also Hellebaud.
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Richarde that is amazing information - many thanks indeed - the more I researched yesterday the more convinced I became that the family were Huguenot refugees.
I'd be grateful if you could give me some sources for the information that you have shared with me so that I can mark the sources on the gedcom file.
By the way te link between the families of the two friends is the marriage of Samuel Agombar b 1757 to Sarah Manchee born 1759 which took place in 1780.
All the best
Ashley
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Hello Ashely
As you can see from my tag a fair lot of my own were Huguenots in London, and I have researched around 60-80 other Huguenot families in London's East End besides, as it is a real interest of my own. Through my own link to the family, the Agombars were one of the earliest I researched, a good 4 years ago, as a contact who helped me starting out was on that line, and she had done a great deal of research. I later checked out and verified it myself as correct.
The later English info comes from a mix of the English parish registers and the transcribed registers of the Huguenot churches made by the Society of GB and Ireland. (The info that Pierre and his parents came in November 1685, relates to them joining the Threadneedle Street Huguenot Church in London at that time, with a paper testimony from their pastor in St Quentin). A few of their family were also inmates of the French Hospital London, and confirm the line back to Broncourt, St Quentin, Picardy, so it is well established and researched.
The earlier French info comes from the existent protestant records for St Quentin. This covers roughly the period from the Edit of Nantes in 1598 which gave Protestants a civil status in France, to the Edit of Fontenbleau, which then revoked it again, in October 1685. This also explains why they fled at exactly that time. Other members of their family are in the Catholic Register, the same month, in their village Brancourt, being forced to 'abjure their heresy' and become nouveaux convertis. Jacob and his wife obviously chose to flee instead of this. Those who stayed, including Jacobs sister, later fled too about 5 years on (perhaps they inititially thought the persecution might blow over). They went to Holland, settling in Haarlem. Jacobs sister and her husband Daniel Le Beau, later moved on again from there, in 1702, to London, with my ancestors the Deverduns. Daniel and Magdelaine were godparents to many of their children here in London.
I've not personally researched the Manchee family but I do know it is also a very well researched family, and I think several decendants of that family have been high up and well involved in the Huguenot Society over past 100 years. If you are researching them too might be well worth getting in contact with them.
Regards
Richard
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http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~manchee/manchee/295.htm
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~manchee/exodus.htm
Couple of pages on Sarah Manchee, and the wider Manchee family there. The reverend William Henry Manchee is the man I was thinking of, very active in the Huguenot Society in the early 20th century, and his son and grandson after him were members on the council I believe.
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Just to add, looking through the French Hospital records, one of Temperence's grand daughters applied:
Elizabeth Bennett (wife of William Randall) born Oct 4 1806 37 Hare Street, Bethnal Green, daughter of Thomas Bennet and Temperence Arrowsmith. Temperence Arrowsmith, daughter of Temperence Agombar. Applied to French Hospital London June 1 1877. Was not admitted being in reciept of other charity, and 'stone deaf'.
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Hi Richarde
Thanks again for all of the information - it is remarkable stuff.
The chap who has Manchee heritage also has Lefever heritage - I am sure you are aware of them.
I've found the Pierre Agombar marriage at Stepney St Dunstan but I can't find the Jacques / Judith marriage at that church at all - do you know where it took place?
Many thanks
Ashley
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Hi, I have just discovered this page and have found out more in ten mins than i have in months and months about my ancestors. James Arrowsmith and Temparance Agombar are my 6 x great grandparents. Their son William married Sarah Trenell they had a son William who married Susan Sargeant, they had a son William who married Grace Wales and they had a daughter on some records she is shown as Lydia Grace and on others Grace Lydia. At the young and tender age of 17 she fell pregnant and then married my great great grandfather Charles Pickett. She gave birth to a little boy named Charles but it had been a long and difficult birth and later that day she had fits and later died. Her husband did continue to bring up their child and later had a relationship with a woman called Catherine.( she is down as his wife 10 years later but i can find no records of a marriage) Young Vharles married Nellie Hurcum and they had a son called John Henry. John Henry married Florence Barnes and they had a son John Edward Pickett..... my dad.... Most of my direct descendants did not make old bones and finding out any history has been really hard. So thank you everyone. Thank you very much and if anyone has anyother info I would be more than grateful.
Good luck
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No records found on the Office of National Statistics website in 2002 for any of the quoted spellings. This means either that the surname was absent in England and Wales , or there are less than 5 people with it.
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Actually the proper spelling Agombar is still quite common in the East End and Essex. I think 'Agambar', as a spelling variant, was short lived. The Agombars were one of the more prolific East End Huguenot families, and I have often bumped into their decendants!
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"I can't find the Jacques / Judith marriage at that church at all - do you know where it took place?"
Just realised I overlooked Ashley's question above on this thread...The marriage took place St Botolphs, Aldersgate, London City. Actual entry reads " James Agombar and Judah (Judith?) Flovan, Both of this Parish, Married by Banns, By Mr William Freeman, Curate, June 19th 1730"
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Hi Richarde
Many thanks for the additional information. I;ve been working on Judith's line and she was the daughter of Jacob Flavans and Susanne Wilbeau. Jacques was baptised in Amderdam the son of Antoine Flavan and Rachel Muteaux. Antoine and Rachel moved to London in time for the birth of their last child, Jeanne, in 1682.
Jacques and Susanne married at Stepney Dec 1702, and had their first child in Bethnal Green, They then seem to have gone to Amsterdam as Abraham (1708), Jean Philippe (1710), Jacques (1714), and Marie (1716) were all born there before Ester (1718) was born back in Bethnal Green.
Have you any idea why there was all this toing and froing from Amsterdam??
Cheers
Ashley
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Hi Ashely
I do have a fair idea why.
Basically when the Huguenots fled, the main place of choice was the Dutch Netherlands, twice as many went there as here. Part of this was no doubt it was easier to escape on foot by land, then risk the perilous sea journey to England. My ancestor for example lived in Pay de Caux Normandy, so you would have thought escape to England by boat would have been first option. Instead they treked near 100 miles to the Dutch border, and were arrested trying to cross the river there at the last moment. They were then marched back to Normandy and imprisoned for two years before Louis expelled them..to England!
The main reason though was probably the fact when the revocation came into force Oct 1685, William of Orange was on the throne in the Netherlands, the champion of the Protestant people. Our King was James II, a pretty open Catholic, and the first cousin of the tyrant Louis XIV they were fleeing. (In fact he'd spent his formative years at his Catholic cousins court in Paris, after being forced out in the English civil war, and was more French in habit then English). William of course then ousted James, and with his wife Mary, James's daughter, united the British and Dutch throne in 1688. However for that first few years 1685-88 obviously the majority who could headed for Holland rather than Britian.
Families were frequently split, some going to Holland, some England, as they could not escape together. This is same for my family. Therefore after 1688, until Williams death in 1702, when the two countries were briefly united, they tended to cross back and foward Amsterdam to London freely, and many families were established in both places. To a lesser extent it continued after 1702, though a great many in the Netherlands, made the move permanently to England at that time once William their protector had died, including my own ancestors.
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Thanks again for the great explanation Richarde!
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Richarde, I have an ancestor by the surname Moule, 3XGGM who lived in the Cambridge area. I believe she was Hugenot by origin, Do you have any further information on theis surname please?
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Hi Redroger
My Molle's were spelt variously in the rcords as Mole, Molle, Moule, Mollet, so it may be the same name. Mine were originally from Bolbec in Normandy, so it may be the same of the Cambridge branch. I know Huguenots went out that way as they were very involved in the draining of the fens.
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That looks very promising Richarde, Thanks or should I say merci?
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Either...all greatfully recieved ;)
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I am also related to Temperance and the rest of the gang!
Temperance married James Arrowsmith and had a son William who married Sarah Trenell.
Sarah and William had a son Thomas Arrowsmith, who had a daughter called Ellenor etc etc until my great grandfather and grandfather - by then with the surname Chesterman.
I've traced the Agombar name backwards as follows:
Jaques 1731
Jaques 1706
Pierre 1675 (He's the one who moved to England - I have him as from Amiens)
Jacob 1649 (He's the first of the St Quentin group and the spelling is Hagombart)
Jaques 1624
Jacob 1600 (although I don't trust the date)
Jehan 1564
Jacob 1540
Jehan 1519
And that's where it runs out.
Fascinating stuff. I found out the other day that one of my relatives used to live next door to my local after work pub in Holborn! Small world as they say.
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Hello,
Lots of helpful stuff here but you must have noticed that there are different versions of the line before Jaques Solamon Hagombart, b.1624 in the responses to this question;
Jacob - Jehan - Jacob - Jehan
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Nicolas - Jehan - Jehan
Elsewhere I have seen a tree giving Jacob - Jacob
Who is most confident they are right?
Nearer to the present day, everyone seems agreed that Jaques Solamon Hagombart's son Jacob married Marie Brancourt Le Grand but Familysearch has children baptised at around the same time as their son Pierr[e] in St Quentin but with parents Salomon Hagombart and Marie Le Grand, sans the Brancourt . For example, Jacob on March 29, 1671. Were they a different couple or were they like Jewish ancestors I've tried to trace who seem to change their names every year? I suppose I should just plough through the registers on line. Isn't it amazing that we can read 350 year old French records in the comfort of our own homes!
Cheers.