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Research in Other Countries => United States of America => Topic started by: Chris R D on Monday 20 September 10 20:53 BST (UK)
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hello,
i am looking for the grave/plot/cemetery for this chap.
He was killed in an aircraft collision in Otterburn England, I am researching the crash.
Can anyone help.
Chris
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Hello Chris,
Not quite the information that you have asked for but may help in locating the Cemetery Information - if the family had not moved ??? Although the aircrash was November 1987, the death was probably registered after an Inquest which could have taken a little time. I believe the young man may have married in Milwaukee. Wisconsin 7 Jun 1986.
The BMD Index for Northumberland shows:-
John Robert Carver. Birth Date: 5 Apr 1956
Death Registration Month/Year: Sep 1988 Northumberland. Aged 32 years
The SSDI Index shows:-
John Carver
Born: 5 Apr 1956
Last Benefit: 53217 Milwaukee, Milwaukee, Wisconsin.
Died: Nov 1987
SSN issued: Wisconsin (1967)
Regards
Sandra
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Hi Sandra,
That is definately my chap, however he was killed 2nd Nov 1987 along with
David Robert Sunderland.
GRO will have been registered after the inquest I presume.
All sites regarding their collision have it as 02/11/1987.
Chris
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Hi Chris
Found the following for you
2 November 1987
RAF Harrier GR3 XV790 3 Sqn Mid air collision during low level practice attack. Otterburn Training Area Lieutenant John CARVER
US Navy killed
If he wasnt taken home to the US for burial the nearest place to Otterburn is
Elsdon church, three miles from Otterburn
If you Google it you will generally find something thats been in the news!
regards Sandymc
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Hello Chris,
I read up what I could find and the date of the accident is as you say. Just hope that by having his birth date and place of birth - someone may be able to help you further.
Good Luck.
Regards
Sandra
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If you search on Google News Archives (http://news.google.com/archivesearch), there are a few articles mentioning this crash, including one with a picture of John. It says the funeral arrangements were being handled by Feerick Funeral Home, 2025 E. Capital Dr., Shorewood (presumably in Wisconsin).
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Shelly,
Thanks,
Could not locate the picture of John though!
Sandra,
thank you,
brought it to the front
Chris
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The page with the picture is here - http://www.rootschat.com/links/09u5/ You have the move the section that you're looking at over slightly to see the picture.
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Shelly,
Thank you,
Now how do I get a copy of the picture
Chris
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Chris
Have you been able to read the paper with his photo on it.
It took a while but after the main section of news about John you have to
trawl through the paper to page 8a and there it states that his wife of one
year (*), plans to fly home with his body from Gutersloh Germany.
Then as mentioned before the funeral director is being handled by
Feerick Funeral Home, 2025 E. Capitol Drive, Shorewood, and this is in
the Milwaukee Journal, so it looks to me as though he would have been
buried in the Milwaukee area and not in England.
Hope this helps
regards
Sandymc
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Hi sandy
we are getting closer
Chris
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Hi Chris: I searched the U.S. Veterans Administration's database of burials in American military cemeteries. No sign of Lt. Carver's burial.
The Feerick Funeral Home in Shorewood, Wisconsin has a website on which I found several e-mail addresses. Go here: http://feerickfuneralhome.com/contactus.php.
You may find out from the funeral home where Lt. Carver from buried. My understanding is that funeral home information is not generally confidential. You can contact either of the two owners, whose e-mail addresses are at the top of the Contact page.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
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John,
Thank you,
A note has been sent to them
Chris
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Hi Chris: I'm glad you were able to decipher the gibberish in my reply about John Carver's burial.
I generally have a better command of the language.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
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John, Shelly, Sandy,
An outstanding piece of work by your good selves,
Now I need to trace the other pilot involved in the collision
Lt David Robin Sunderland RAF
regards
Chris
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John, Shelly, Sandy,
Got a copy of Lt J Carvers picture today.
once again thank you
Chris
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Hi Chris
The only thing I can find out about Ft Lt David Robin Sunderland at the moment is about the crash.
Harrier GR3 XZ136 3rd Sqn, Mid air collision with XV790 during low level
practice attack, Otterburn Training area.
Again, It must be in the newspapers somewhere so hope someone might
find it. Busy at the mo but will try and have a look for you
regards
Sandymc
p.s. I remember when it happened so thats why I decided to see if
I could find anything for you. Memory is getting blurred now lol.
take care.
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Sandy,
he was cremated in his home town Bangor, Gwynedd, Wales,
6th November 1987.
He was aged 27.
Now I need a photo!!!
Chris
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Are you still looking?
John and David were personal friends of mine and I was looking for details of the crash I came across this thread.
John's wife Charmaine went back to the USA where they were both were from. I understand she remarried. Dave Sunderland was not cremated as I stood at his graveside after his funeral. He was buried at the main cemetary at Bangor North Wales. An RAF VC10 was laid on for his friends from RAF Gutersloh.
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For some reason your message was not accompanied by a reply button so I am sending this my the original thread.
Please email me at
(*)
Graeme
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to avoid spamming and other abuses.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hello Chris and Sandy and others,
I came across this conversation about my brother, Lt. John Carver and I'm curious about it. Did you know him? Did you find the information you are looking for?
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Hello Chris and Sandy and others,
I came across this conversation about my brother, Lt. John Carver and I'm curious about it. Did you know him? Did you find the information you are looking for?
Hello MAC58.
I Research Aviation Accidents in Northumberland, England.
Your brothers accident was one of the ones I was researching. The story of my search for the exact site using official documents and eyewitness accounts, is covered in my book ALMOST FORGOTTEN (Chapter 12).
Send me your e-mail address and I will send you a copy of the chapter.
kind regards
Chris
Chris R Davies
ALMOST FORGOTTEN
The Search For Aviation Accidents In Northumberland
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Thanks, Chris. I'm looking forward to reading it and see what you discovered.
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Hi MAC58: Welcome to Rootschat. Per Rootschat policy about keeping spam opportunities down, your e-mail address may be removed from the site.
If you make one more post--say in reply to my reply--you will be able to send Chris R D a personal message by clicking on the icon below his name that looks like a sheet of paper.
And to Chris R D: Would you be able to send me a copy of the chapter? Though I'm not related, I like to read about the people searches I've been in on. Send me a PM and I'll reply with my e-mail address.
Regards,
John :o :o :o
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Thanks for the Rootschat advice, John!
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Hi there,
So pleased to see that everyone has met each other on the Rootschat and the net.
Isn't it great bearing in mind this information and connection probably could not
happen years ago without the net.
Feel glad that it might be settled now and I am sure that John and Dave are pleased too
about this event. I wondered why I found a birds feather outside my door the last
few days.
Take care everyone involved and RIP the two brave men.
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Well, I didn't think much of it at the time, but yesterday I picked up 2 flight feathers from a Raven right there in my path while hiking the high country here in Colorado. By the way, the reason no one could find John's burial information is because we spread his ashes high in the Colorado mountains, in our own special place. There is a marker there and a diary for visitors to write in, but no offical record of it, except our memories.
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Hello MAC58,
I am Bill Stephens, brother of Michael, one of John's best friends. I am sorry to let you know that we lost Michael to brain cancer last April, altho' you may be aware from (*) (his wife). If you're aware, OK. If need/want more details drop me a line. This was all prompted by (*)giving me Michael's "stuff" that she had no interest in, and me finding a few pics of John & Mike. Hope all is well with you. Bill
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi Meg,
Thanks for responding! This is a neat web site, but they sure make it difficult to correspond - no personal e-mail addresses allowed. . .
Anyway, I'm not sure exactly how or when Mike and John connected. Mike was a sailplane pilot primarily out of West Bend for many years. I remember meeting John and it may have been there. I flew "real" airplanes out of there as well.
I know Mike went on a "guest" carrier cruise with John, I think out of CA to Hawaii; can't remember what year that might have been, but it was before John went to the UK.
Mike would have been married to Rachael when they met I think. He subsequently married (*), but don't know that they ever met up with John and his wife (name?).
No kids from either marriage.
Mike was involved in the hobby industry in a number of different positions through the years, as was our Dad. He was working for one of the largest manufacturers/distributors in Milwaukee when he died.
I will pass on your thoughts and good wishes to (*), and ask her what here remembrances might be.
You're right, I hadn't really connected on the fact that John's passing was so many years ago!
How long have you been in CO? Status of your parents?
Also glad I found you! Let me know what other info might help with the connection.
More soon,
Bill
(*) Moderator Comment:
Edited in accordance with RootsChat policy of not publishing details of living people here, or details of people who may still be living. This is to protect all concerned from spam, identity abuse, internet abuse, etc, etc.
Please use the Personal Message (PM) system for exchanging personal data.
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Hi Bill,
Just to let you know about e mails etc.
You will be able to do a private mail on this site when you get to 3 or more
replies. I notice you have only 2 at the moment. You can then give
your e mail address on the private mail They don't allow mail addresses
due to spam and troll behaviour, as this site is seen all over the World.
Its for your own safety.
Do another reply to someone and you will get your 3 posts and be able to
reply.
Take care
regards Sandymc
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Hello all!
I met John in 1978 in France, during the World Gliding Championships held in Châteauroux.
I'm a flyer too and I really got the chance to fly with him.
Our last phone call was probably just a day before he went to UK for his last training mission. His wife told me he was asleep but he eventually woke up and wished to talk to me.
He said he would go back to US and I wasn't surprised when I got no news for a while...
I then wrote to his parents (they always knew where he and his wife moved) and his Mum sent me a sad letter and an excerpt of the 'Military Aircraft Accident Summary'.
Chris R D has got the good information regarding the arrangements of the funerals.
John was from Whitefish Bay, Wisconsin
There is also a place in Germany: Monument to Fallen Flyers, Wasserkuppe
I have some photographs of him but I don't know if I'll be allowed to share.
If I can help, just let me know!
Jean-Marc
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Welcome, Jean-Marc. You can post pictures here as long as the people in them are no longer living. If you would prefer to send them privately, you can use our Personal Messaging system if you post here two more times.
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Hi Jean-Marc,
I am John's sister. So nice to hear from you. John started his love of flying with sailplanes, went on to fly many different aircraft and yet, gliding always remained his favorite. I'm so glad you got to share that with him.
My family and I would love to see any photos you have.
Thanks-
Meg Carver
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To shellyesq: Thank you for the advice.
To Meg: I will post the few photos I have. Be patient!
I'm so glad we still remember my friend. I have so many things to tell you.
Love from Jean-Marc
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Hello Meg!
Here is an official U.S. NAVY Photograph taken at N.A.S. CORPUS CHRISTI, TX
John being the "Student of the Month" in March 1980.
Also find a copy of the U.S.S. KITTY HAWK CV-63 postcard, where John was proud to say he was the only "glider pilot" among the 16 pilots of his squadron: the VA-147.
Then, you certainly know the other I was given by your Mum in 1990, the sad one!
I've got a few more I'll send you privately when I've posted enough!!!
Take care,
Jean-Marc
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Sorry Meg,
the file was too big!
I have to work on it ASAP!
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# 1
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# 2
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U.S.S. Kitty Hawk
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Hello Meg,
according to my last PM, I'm back with some photos.
Regards,
Jean-Marc
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Meeting a WWII legend pilot: "Hanna Reitsch"
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and the last one when flying in Pennsylvania.
Take all care,
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Whoa !!
The internet wins again !! ( all be it under the most tragic of circumstances )
Hi all & especially Meg & Mac58, my name is Simon & I was an engineer on 3(f) Squadron working with John & Dave.
Their loss was felt deeply by all the groundcrew at the time of the accident and I can assure you that they are not forgotten today.
2 weeks ago I joined with a motorcycle ride out to the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire, Dave's name is on the wall and it always makes me sad that John's wasn't (The Armed Forces Memorial is for UK forces only )
Some years ago I had names added to my bike jacket, people and crews that were lost that I had a connection with. I am honoured to have Johns name there and have often wished I could convey my respects to Johns family - I guess that is now done & I hope you are happy with the sentiment expressed.
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This patch was worn by those who served on the Harrier Force