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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Durham => England => Durham Lookup Requests => Topic started by: avidt on Wednesday 22 September 10 23:47 BST (UK)
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Hi
I am looking for the wedding on Jonathan Rowlands & Elizabeth Craggs @1791. I think that Elizabeth was born in Chester Le Street as their son Jonathan was born there in 1801. I do not know where the father was born.
Many thanks
David :D
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David,
I couldn't see a marriage for Jonathan and Elizabeth on the IGI, nor could I see any other children on the IGI.
However I found Jonathan's baptism record which gives some valuable information. It reads:
Jonn Rowlands b 17th July 1801 chr 18th Oct 2nd son of Jonathan Rowland of Chester Husbandman Native of Middleton ...(indecipherable word) Yorkshire by his wife Elizabeth Craggs Native of West Auckland.
http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#w=0&p=waypoint&s=waypointsOnly&c=fs%3A1309819
Not sure if this link will work but you need to look at the image on page 356
;D
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The word I was unable to decipher looks like 'Tiers'. I found this submitted record on the IGI:
Jonathan Rowlands chr 23 Apr 1775
Middleton Tyas
Yorkshire
father Jonathan
mother Jane
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I think it is Middleton Tyas which is in North Yorkshire near the border. I have family from there. Extracted record Middleton Tyas: John Rowlands was baptised 23 Aug 1767 son of Jonathan Rowlands and Jane [Moorey married 16 May 1764] if that is the one.
Janis
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Jonathan Rowland = Jane Moorey
16 May 1764
Middleton Tyas
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Janis,
Does it look like there are 2 Jonathan and Janes with sons Jonathan? The submitted record says a Jonathan was chr 23 Apr 1775? (it could be wrong of course ;))
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Hi
The 1841 Census gives his age as 68 born @1773 and his wife Elizabeth (nee Craggs) age 76 born 1765?
Kind Regards
David
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Hi
The 1841 Census gives his age as 68 born @1773 and his wife Elizabeth (nee Craggs) age 76 born 1765?
Kind Regards
David
So closer to the 1775 baptism .... :-\ There are a few Elizabeth Craggs on the IGI alone ...
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Hi Ruskie
But at least we know she was a native of west Auckland. Perhaps the wedding when I find it wll give some further clues.
Kind Regards
David :D
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Hi not sure if its any help found a baptism gainford st marys teesdale district
1st of august john rowlands of langton born 17 july 1804 3rd son of jonathan rowlands (labourer,son of jonathan rowlands native of middleton tyas yorkshire )by his wife elizabeth craggs (daughter of thomas craggs native of west auckland
there is also christopher rowlands 1806 same as above
lynnej
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Hi Lynne
That is very useful infomation, what year was john Rowlands born please. If Christopher was born in 1806 and Jonathan 2nd son in 1801, ther must be quite a family scattered around.
Kind Regards
David :D
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sorry forgot about year have ammended above year 1804 at least from the baptism you now know elizabeths father is thomas
and jonathans father is jonathan
lynne j
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Hi not sure if its any help found a baptism gainford st marys teesdale district
1st of august john rowlands of langton born 17 july 1804 3rd son of jonathan rowlands (labourer,son of jonathan rowlands native of middleton tyas yorkshire )by his wife elizabeth craggs (daughter of thomas craggs native of west auckland
there is also christopher rowlands 1806 same as above
lynnej
What a great find Lynne! ;D
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Hi Lynne
Many thanks for that great detective work. If there are more children they are likely to be in the area around Gainsford & Chester Le Street. Is there a County Baptismal Index from 1801 -1837 for Durham as there is in a lot of other Counties ?
Kind Regards
David
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thanks I did find more baptisms but under the name rowland not rowlands see what you think I could be wrong
teesdale district eggleston holy trinity
8th ofjuly 1810 william rowland of eggleston born 2 july twin son of jonathan rowland by his wife elizabeth
8th of july 1810 george rowland of eggleston born 2 july twin 6th son of jonathan rowland by his wife elizabeth
thomas rowland 1808 teesdale jonathan and elizabeth
so up till now all to jonathan rowlands (rowland) and elizabeth
jonathan rowlands 1801 chester le street (rowlands) 2nd son
john rowlands 1804 of langton teesdale gainford 3rd son
christopher rowlands 1806 of langton teesdale gainford 4th son
these are maybe
thomas rowland 1808 teesdale
william rowland twin 1810
george rowland twin 1810 eggleston
lynne j
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Hi Lynne
You are a star finding those baptisms. as there is a William Rowlands having a family in Haughton Le Skerne at the same time as my Jonathan was baptised as Jonathan Rowley !!!
As Jonathan was baptised as the second son in 1801, there is probably another birth shortly prior to that which narrows down the time date for the wedding.
Now I know that Elizabeth was the dr of Thomas, that narrows it down to 2 Elizabeth's born in 1768 and 1769 to a Thomas and I suspect that I will find the 1st Elizabeth died.
Kind Regards
David
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David, are Jonathan and Elizabeth still alive for the 1851 census?
I've just been looking at dates and ages and notice that Elizabeth is quite a lot older than Jonathan. I realise that the ages estimated from the 1841 are not exact, but if Elizabeth's approximate year of birth is 1768/9 ish then she was 33 in 1801 when 2nd son Jonathan was born, and 42 when the twins (if they belong to the same family) were born ... so a little on the old side to be having babies at 2 year intervals ... :-\
Of course the ages on the 1841 census may be wrong.
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Hi Ruskie
I could nor see them on the 1851 Census, however if Jonathan is the second son born in 1810, she obviously married late in life, for those times and she was living in the sames viagge as the son William so that seems to sell the deal.
Kind Regards
David :D
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Hi David
1851 census jonathan rowland is living in blackwell durham ancestry has him down as jonothon rowland as a visitor age 76 ag lab born middleton tyas york living with ann branston age 52
he died at easington jonathan rowlands born abt 1774 died 1859 easington
elizabeth rowland was buried haughton feb 25th 1842 aged 76 making that 1766 born
by the way my gg grandma was still having children at the age of 46
ps jonathan sorry 2nd not 1st son was born 1801
john 3rd son 1804
lynne
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Hi Lynne
An earlier reply from Ruskie stated that the baptism of Jonatham was the 2nd don of Jonathan & Elizabeth? The baptism for Jonathan in Middlton Tyas in 1768 now seems wrong and the possible baptism in 1775 seem to be the right one which I have to find the church record.
The IGI shows only 2 births in that time frame for Elizabeth and only one in Auckland and that is 1769 so maybe she got the birth year wrong which seems to be quite common in that era
Kind Regards
David
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sorry
ruskie was right jonathan was 2nd son of jonathan and elizabeth
also looked at the baptism at st helens auckland
march 13th 1769 elizabeth daughter of thos crags of west auckland
lynne
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Nothing to do with this thread but it might be of interest. From the North Eastern Daily Gazette Saturday 20th January 1894;
Rowlands Jan 20th at Yarm, suddenly, Jonathan Rowlands, plumber, age 61. Internment on Tuesday,cortege leaving at 2.30. Friends please accept this intimation. No cards.
I think this is the Jonathan that was baptised at Haughton le Skerne
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Hi david guess what found the marriage
27th august 1798 cheshire
jonathan rowlands
brides name elizabeth craggs
has both there ages as 21
lynnej
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Hi david guess what found the marriage
27th august 1798 cheshire
jonathan rowlands
brides name elizabeth craggs
lynnej
I've just popped back to see how this thread is progressing. Well done Lynne! ;D Great find!
Can I ask where you found this marriage?
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Hi ,Ive been trying out the newsearch on family search called beta.familysearch.org
i put jonathan rowlands birth 1777 middleston tyas
It did not tell me the parish or church just date of marriage
but it came up with most of the baptisms for his children fantastic site I have even found burials for my bates in st andrews bishop auckland up till 1890 s
when i put my anthony curry in and date of birth it came up with marriages for his children in bishopwearmouth naming him as the father of the bride and the groom so i have found who the rest of the family married
worth giving it a try
lynne
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Hi ,Ive been trying out the newsearch on family search called beta.familysearch.org
i put jonathan rowlands birth 1777 middleston tyas
It did not tell me the parish or church just date of marriage
but it came up with most of the baptisms for his children fantastic site I have even found burials for my bates in st andrews bishop auckland up till 1890 s
when i put my anthony curry in and date of birth it came up with marriages for his children in bishopwearmouth naming him as the father of the bride and the groom so i have found who the rest of the family married
worth giving it a try
lynne
Ah, I use that site, but not in the same way. I must try it. In theory you can also check the original BT's on that site. So they married in Cheshire? That seems strange. I wonder if it was Chester (as in Chester Le Street) and someone interpreted it as the Chester in Cheshire?
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the batch number was 107248-2 source film 1736543 cheshire ,it does seem cheshire could be right could not find a marriage anywhere in durham or york maybe david could check on the cheshire look up board
there are a lot of rowlands in cheshire
unless anyone can find it in chester
lynne
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I couldn't see the marriage on the BT's for Chester Le Street. So yes, it would be worth checking in Cheshire. It does seem a long way from home to be marrying - maybe Jonathan had work or family there. :-\
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just checked on the joinermarriage index for cheshire and the marriage has not come up wondering if mistranscribed as you say or could they have married by licence or bond funnily enough it gives there ages which this does on a bond so they could of applied for a license in cheshire and married elsewhere maybe his family moved there ,totally confused now have emailed joiner marriage index to see if they have any info
it def said cheshire
lynne
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Hi
Lynne, Ruskie & Angelfish, thanks for all your wonderful help, but I am little confused as I have had an answer on another forum from somebody who looked at the Family Search beta site under Fmil Recorsd Collections and came up with a wedding for Jonathan Rowlands & Elizabeth Craggs at Cheslter Le Street in 1805,, I an now totally confused as this wedding would have taken place after the first 3 children were born.
Kin Regards
David :D
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Hi Lynne & Ruske
This was th info I was given earlier
Groom: Jonathan Rowlands
Bride: Elizabeth Craggs
Date: 18 Oct 1805
Place: Chester-le-Street
Batch No.
P00058-1
Source Film No. 91090
If you go to Family Search Collections you can view the Bishops Transcripts for Chester-le-Street. For the years 1765-1821 there are 1,083 original images. You can't search these by name unfortunately as they are browse only images so it's a case of clicking the next image until you get where you want, but they will hopefully also show the baptisms for their children and any burials for the family
Kind Regards
David
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I take it you have checked the BT's to see if the marriage is there? I believe some years are missing. I wonder why this marriage doesn't show up on Joiner or Durham Records Online? It is still very possible that they married after the births of some of their children.
It's not in George Bell's index either, nor could I find it on the BT's for Chester Le Street.
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The batch number you were given appears to be for a birth/christening:
Chester Le Street
Births/Christenings:
P000581 1582-1812
E000581 (sorry i don't know what this E number is but it is in the Marriages column - there are no dates given)
The marriages begin with an "M" :
M000581 1582-1827
M000582 1827-1831
M000583 1832-1837
Who gave you this information (do they have any more?) and where did they get it from? :-\
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what a puzzle ,I looked E00581 by page and there is only one page
henry bregwell 1614
johanis clibburn 1595
lancelot jackson 1625
johanis raw 1606and a couple of other names
I am going to the durham records office next week so I will have a look
I did have an email back off joiner marriageindex and they have no marriage in durham or cheshire but they do not have all the indexs yet
lynnej
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Well I've had a look at the BT's for Chester le Street Oct 1805 (images 544-546/1083) and nothing is showing for Jonathan & Elizabeth :(
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Hi Lynne, Ruskie, Angelfish
Just back from the SOG, no info on Chester- le-Street, but I could have stayed at home because on the Ancestry Site is the CHESHIRE family tree and although this does not have the wedding of Jonathan & Elizabeth, it does have their 1st son James born 1800 in Croft.
It also gives the date of Jonathan;s birth in 1775, the names of his parents Jonathan Rowlands & Jane Morey, but also memntions the older Jonatham's birth in 1739 in Croft and his death in Middleton Tyas in 1820.I still have to find the wedding thich was not in Chester Le Street, but as the 1st son Jmes was born in Croft, I wonder if that was where the wedding took place.
Kind REgards
David
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So David, is all this information coming from someone else's tree/s? There's a bit of confliciting information. ;)
It's worth looking in Croft for the marriage if that is where it is claimed their first son was born.
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Croft on Tees isn't far from Middleton Tyas so it's not impossible. It might be worth giving North Yorks Record Office a ring as from memory they have a transcript of the Croft records so might be able to do a quick look-up for you.
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Hi Lynne, Ruskie, Angelfish
Just back from the SOG, no info on Chester- le-Street, but I could have stayed at home because on the Ancestry Site is the CHESHIRE family tree and although this does not have the wedding of Jonathan & Elizabeth, it does have their 1st son James born 1800 in Croft.
It also gives the date of Jonathan;s birth in 1775, the names of his parents Jonathan Rowlands & Jane Morey, but also memntions the older Jonatham's birth in 1739 in Croft and his death in Middleton Tyas in 1820.I still have to find the wedding thich was not in Chester Le Street, but as the 1st son Jmes was born in Croft, I wonder if that was where the wedding took place.
Kind REgards
David
I may have misunderstood David. You are saying that the family's surname is Cheshire rather than saying that the family came from Cheshire the County?
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HI I have just looked at the tree on ancestry ,the family tree is cheshire but the surname they are researching is rowlands ,they do have jonathan rowlands born 1775 middleston tyas but they do not have elizabeths surname (craggs) so the baptism of james rowlands 1800 must only have father jonathan rowlands mam elizabeth they have not found a marriage as yet
lynnej
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Hi
I am looking for the wedding on Jonathan Rowlands & Elizabeth Craggs @1791. I think that Elizabeth was born in Chester Le Street as their son Jonathan was born there in 1801. I do not know where the father was born.
Many thanks
David :D
Sorry if I am in the wrong place. This is my first ever post on such a web-site or any other for that matter.
Are you looking for Elizabeth Craggs with connections to Auckland Saint Helen? I have read the whole thread and am confused.
There are almost 40 members of the Craggs family in my records including 6 Elizabeth Craggs in and around the Parish of Auckland Saint Helen going back to William Craggs (bap. 1660) of Auckland Saint Helen parish from a Witton le Wear family. His wife was Ann but we do not have her maiden name. This count of 40 includes all males and females baptised as Craggs but not including wives acquiring the name.
ELIZABETH CRAGGS 2 Dec 1768.
The one that may fit is Elizabeth Craggs bap at Auckland Saint Helen on 2 Dec 1768. This Elizabeth's parents were William Craggs (bap 1740) of Witton le Wear and Elizabeth Adamson. As this Elizabeth was a younger sister of my ancestor William Craggs so I have no further details of her.
The next Elizabeth Craggs in my records does not appear until 1842 but her siblings were born in a narrow strip of the North Riding of Yorkshire, south of the River Tees, mainly in Shiney Row, Manfield but some in Hurworth, Neasham and lastly in Brotton.
Is any of this of use to you? I would be happy to send you a partial gedcom if it is.
My apologies if this is all irrelevant.
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Hi David,
I have just come across your post regards Jonathan Rowlands and Elizabeth Craggs.
I am the gt. gt. gt. grandson of Jonathan and Elizabeth Rowland (nee Craggs). I am descended via their first child James Rowland who was born/baptised at Croft on Tees in 1800.
At the age of 18 James joined the East India Company's Madras Native Infantry and sailed for Madras in 1818. At the time of his enlistment he was working as a Blacksmith. My family remained in India and Burma until my parents returned to England in 1949. The last of the Rowlands left India in 1971 and settled in Australia. James died in Madras aged 67 in 1867 as Sub Conductor of Ordnance, Fort St. George.
James' father Jonathan was born at Middleton Tyas in 1775 and died 1859 in Castle Eden.
Jonathan's father was also called Jonathan who married Jane Moorey in Middleton Tyas in 1764.
Jonathan's parents were a William and Elizabeth Rowlands. Elizabeth died at Middleton Tyas in 1795 and William died there in 1799. I have come to a halt with William as no age is given on his or Elizabeth's death record and they are not originally from Middleton Tyas as i've looked through the Church records. There is a William Rowlands born in Stokesley who may be him but I am not 100% certain.
I would love to hear from you and discover your connection with this Rowland/s family. I live in Sheffield and you can email me on * and I will let you have my phone number as it would be interesting to chat to you.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Paul Rowland.
*Moderator comment: personal e-mail address removed in accordance with RootsChat general practice, to avoid spamming. Please use the personal message system to exchange private e-mail addresses. New members have to make 2 or 3 posts before they can access this system. Please see here: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,123033.msg375038.html#msg375038
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Hi Lynne, I was thrilled to see your post on RootsChat.
I have seen similar posts on here regards Jonathan Rowland from Middleton Tyas and whilst I've replied and made contact with people making the posts, I've never received a reply. Fingers crossed this changes with my message to you.
I have just come across your post regards Jonathan Rowlands and Elizabeth Craggs.
I am the gt. gt. gt. grandson of Jonathan and Elizabeth Rowland (nee Craggs). I am descended via their first child James Rowland who was born/baptised at Croft on Tees in 1800.
At the age of 18 James joined the East India Company's Madras Native Infantry and sailed for Madras in 1818. At the time of his enlistment he was working as a Blacksmith. My family remained in India and Burma until my parents returned to England in 1949. The last of the Rowlands left India in 1971 and settled in Australia. James died in Madras aged 67 in 1867 as Sub Conductor of Ordnance, Fort St. George.
James' father Jonathan was born at Middleton Tyas in 1775 and died 1859 in Castle Eden.
Jonathan's father was also called Jonathan who married Jane Moorey in Middleton Tyas in 1764.
Jonathan's parents were a William and Elizabeth Rowlands. Elizabeth died at Middleton Tyas in 1795 and William died there in 1799. I have come to a halt with William as no age is given on his or Elizabeth's death record and they are not originally from Middleton Tyas as i've looked through the Church records. There is a William Rowlands born in Stokesley who may be him but I am not 100% certain.
I would love to hear from you and discover your connection with this Rowland/s family.
Hope to hear from you soon.
Paul Rowland.