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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: Indigogirl on Friday 24 September 10 01:20 BST (UK)
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I am trying to establish the parents for Mary Ann Mariner b c1791 who married Elisha Holland in 1811 in Southwark. He was a mariner by trade and they had a son Elisha Magnus Holland. One of the witnesses to the marriage was Henry Holland
There are 2 possible parents. There are several IGI bapt recordings for a Mary ann with parents Magnus and Theodosia Mariner-with 1 bapt 1791 at Old Gravel Meeting House Stepney (indep) and a later bapt 1794 at St Katherine by the Tower (is this due to the first bapt being independent? Would there be a financial/legal benefit in a CofE bapt?)
Magnus and Theodosia had a son William too and "other children" in Highgate, Islington
The other possible parents are Richard and Grace Mariner of Bromley who had a son Henry and a daughter Mary Ann ( IGI)
Is anyone able to help eliminate one of the parents or add any other info that might help please?
Thanks
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hi
i,ve just looked at the bpt in the book for st katherines by the tower the record says mary ann mariner of magnus &theodosia bpt 2 may 1794 , born in aldgate parish 10 sep 1791 , also looked at the non conformist record you,d found and i personally think they are one and the same as it says on the non conf record parish of abode botolph algate which is the same as the st k record , it may just be that the parents were converted to the c of e and if so would have had any children bpt as well as themselves as the ch was a bit hot on that sort of thing back then they would allow you to become a part of the ch as long as you went along with the due procedure for bpt confirmations and communion , here endeth my first lesson ;D
trevor
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Thanks for the sermon Father Trev.
When you say "one and the same" do you think its a transcription error and they should both be 1791? Or do you just mean they are both the same person (which is what I thought too) or do you mean that the church building at Kaths by the Tower is the same place as Old gravel Meeting house?
I wonder if you might be able to see if there are any other bapts for the children of Magnus and Theodosia please?
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bless you my child ;)
i think they are the same person , and the reason why is in the text of my sermon earlier , it would be good if you could get another pair of eyes to view this
trevor
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Hi there,
Looking to find more information on William Mariner, son of Magnus Mariner and Theodosia Jones. Books have pinned him to being born 10 September 1791 but now that I have read this thread and have seen a possible baptism for Mary Ann in the same year as William was born, I'm wondering if his birth date is correct. Any help in this matter would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you very much :)
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Re: William Mariner 1791-1853 the Oxford Dictionary of National Biography gives his birth date as 10 September 1791 son of Magnus born at Highbury Place, Highbury, Middlesex.
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What I have attached here is from the Upminster records regarding the birth of a Charles Mariner. The birth date matches William Mariner's but the year is two years earlier to what has been generally believed throughout our families (10 September 1789). I also have the record of Mary Ann Mariner's baptism that lists her as being born 8 September 1971, which means my records now need updating :( but yes just thought it was of interest for anyone who is actively pursuing information regarding this branch of our family.
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Hi
I thought that William Mariner and Mary Ann might have been twins ?
I didn't know about Charles previously
I found this marriage record to a Thomas Jones (Theodosia is wid on marriage to Magnus)
Residence
1785 • Holborn, Middlesex, England
Marital Status: Single Theodosia Palmer Gender: Female Marital Status: Single Marriage Date: 1 Sep 1785 Marriage Place: St. Andrew'S, Holborn, Middlesex, England Spouse: Thomas Jones FHL Film Number: 374369 Reference ID:
And this bapt for a Theodosia Palmer
Baptism
03 Sep 1764 • Saint Anne Soho,Westminster,London,England
Theodosia Palmer Gender: Female Birth Date: 2 Sep 1764 Baptism Date: 3 Sep 1764 Baptism Place: Saint Anne Soho,Westminster,London,England Father: Charles Palmer Mother: Theodosia FHL Film Number: 918606
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All those births and bapts on the 10 September....
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Hello, I'm trying to connect James Mariner who came to Australia about the 1850's to Magnus Mariner. Family verbal stories say James was his son, along with William who lived on Tonga and at least another son who went to New Zealand. James and his son Edward came to Victoria, Australia and at some point changed the spelling of their surname to Marriner, perhaps to create a separation between their name and occupation. Edward was running a shipping business between Portarlington and Williamstown until his untimely death in 1875. My great aunt corresponded with the Queen of Tonga for many years and that fits with our connection to Magnus Mariner.
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Hi
I do have a baptism for James Mariner
P00144-2 374461 James Mariner Baptism Date: 2 May 1794 Parish: Collegiate Church of St Katherine By The Tower County: London Borough: City of London Parent(s): Magnus, Theodosia Record Type: Christening Register Type: Parish Register
I don't have any other information on him though. He has another brother Henry Magnus as well as William and sister Mary Ann. The other 2 siblings didn't survive to adult hood
Does that help?
Di
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Hello, I'm a little late on the scene as I commenced my dedicated family research just a few months ago. Nevertheless I have collated and recorded quite extensively. I can confirm from my information that James MARINER was the father of Edward MARINER who was the skipper of a ship and he came to Melbourne, Australia in about 1850. I don't have any information to suggest James came to Australia. Edward departed from Liverpool where I believe James had moved to from London. James was the brother of William MARINER who was a captive on the Tonga Islands for about four years from 1806 until 1810 when he escaped and returned to England - his story is much written about in books. It was his son, William, who returned to Tonga years later and has descendants in New Zealand and the Pacific islands. James and William were sons of Magnus and Theodosia MARINER
Returning to Edward: he married, had a family and lived in Williamstown, Victoria. He did run a shipping ferry between there and Point Lonsdale and Port Arlington. He changed his surname to MARRINER as suggested, not sure exactly when. His wife and children all bore the name of MARRINER. However he is buried under the name of MARINER as his grave plot was registered under his original surname. Does anyone know the circumstances of his death? He died aged 47 on 26 March, 1875. I'm also keen to find out the details of any siblings of Edward (who was born 1828 in Liverpool).
James MARINER married Maria BROMLEY on 16 July 1816 at St Pauls, Liverpool.
Looking forward to hearing and sharing more.
Allan
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Hi Allan
I haven't found any other siblings between James in 1817 and Edward 1828 - which is a little unusual given the time between their births.
My connection is through Mary Ann b 1791. Daughter on Magnus and Theodosia
Diane
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My reply to Allan yesterday disappeared ... Edward MARINER/MARRINER who came to Australia is my great-great grandfather. Our simple family tree attached and so compressed to be attached, will be difficult to read. My Dad, Stuart MARRINER said James came to Australia but that's not the story I recall from years ago, it was always that Edward came to Australia - why? The family story from Dad: Edward was killed trying to stop a fight in Williamstown. It was assumed that he had been a party to the fight until a man, on his deathbed, confessed that he had punched Edward and killed him when he was trying to break up the fight.
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Should have added that great-grandfather Edward MARRINER, who was born in Portarlington, married Elizabeth MARRINER from Colac. I'm talking about Edward, the son of Edward who came to Australia. Edward's sister Elizabeth married William MARRINER from Colac. Brother and sister married sister and brother. There should be a connect back to England between the two families however there were originally two spellings MARRINER and MARINER. Dad always said you had to know whick side of the family you were talking to when they said 'Auntie Lizzie' - was it Gran or aunt. Too many Edwards and here's me christened Elizabeth Marriner ...
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As well as being christened Elizabeth MARRINER, I live in Portarlington.
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Nice to become acquainted with cousins both near and far. Thanks Elizabeth for confirming the circumstances of the death of Edward (1). I had a memory of hearing that he die as a result of an altercation and wrote that in the narrative of my MARRINER family history I have been compiling. I can update that part now. I'm surprised I haven't been able to find any mention of it in the digitised newspapers of that time which I have trawled through. Your dad, Stuart, sent me a little information back in 2002 which I recently referenced. The dates of birth of the children of Magnus and Theodosia are indeed a little uncertain and it seems sometimes confused with baptism dates. Stuart had James & Maryann's d.o.b. (both) as 2/5/1794 however that appears now to be their baptism dates. I'm fairly certain that William MARINER's d.o.b. is 10/9/1791 which is also the date referred to in his story written by John Martin.
We keep discovering more as we investigate. Look forward to further sharing.
Allan (Cyril - Earl - Edward - Edward - James - Magnus) :)