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Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: laceytreigh on Saturday 25 September 10 05:26 BST (UK)
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Hi,
I have my husband's g.g.grandfather's death certificate and I am trying to find out if there is anything in Melbourne like the Sand's Directory that Sydney has. Or are the electoral rolls available to search?
His name was Joseph Dobson and he died 15th Dec 1898, "Spring Street, Albert Ward, East Melbourne, County of Bourke, Melbourne". If he died at home, I'm wondering how I can find out what number Spring St he lived at. We're going to Melbourne in a couple of weeks, and would like to check it out if I can find it.
Any tips would be appreciated. Thanks.
Tracey.
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Sands & McDougall directories would possibly help you locate your man however I found the following
Victorian Post office Directory 1888
DOBSON Joseph 23 Surrey Road, South Yarra.
What was Joseph's occupation? He may be listed in the trade section. No everyone was listed in these directories and many were listed with the initial of their given name. There is this entry but no way of knowing if it is your man.
S & M 1898
DOBSON Joseph 38 Albert Street, East Melbourne.
In 1898 there were private hospitals at 13 and 49 Spring Street, Melbourne
Are the initials UR [usual residence] or NR [normal residence] in the first column of the death certificate? You have written he died at Spring Street, Albert Ward, East Melbourne, County of Bourke, Melbourne. Is is possible that Melbourne is his usual residence? Usually Colony of Victoria is the only description that follows County of Bourke.
Cheers
Cando
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http://www.prov.vic.gov.au/indexes/index_search.asp?searchid=54
Will & Probate for Joseph Dobson who died 15th Dec 1898,
his residence is stated as Bontherambo, (that would be in Kelly country, Nth Victoria)
Joseph DOBSON, died 1898, Melbourne East, father Joseph DOBSON, mother Annie UNKNOWN. (reg no. 17375) age 68 years.
Born circa 1830.
There was a Joseph Dobson, carpenter and builder, off 9 Little Collins street east (Butler and Brooke's National Directory of Victoria 1866-7)
and
J. Dobson., Builder, Darby alley, (Little Collins Street)
(Bailiere's Post Office Directory of Vic 1869).
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1862 Melbourne Directory (Sands)
Trades &C
p336
Dobson Joseph 20 Little Collins St East, and 103 Queensbury-Street West Hot
West Hot is probably West Hotham
Gerry
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1875 Melbourne Directory (Sands)
Dob ALPHABETICAL Dom p451
Dobson Joseph, 9 Lit Collins-st east; p.r. 103 Queensbury-st Hot
there are 22 persons with the Dobson surnames in this diectory.
Gerry
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Will & Probate for Joseph Dobson who died 15th Dec 1898,
his residence is stated as Bontherambo, (that would be in Kelly country, Nth Victoria) LOGAN
Bontharambo was not really a mapped location in Victoria, but an estate.
Note --There are spelling variations :)
It was owned and built by Joseph Docker who later bought a large tract of Richmond (suburb of Melbourne) which he subdivided and sold thus further building his personal wealth. He was well respected in his time for his cordial relationships with the Aboriginal people.
Not far from where I live ,in Richmond, is Bontherambo Street which he named after his country estate
Rather than giving links for you to explore, I suggest you search using the obvious keywords. You will see good images of the wonderful home and its history in Wangaratta, Victoria.
Sue
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Thanks everyone for your help and suggestions.
Joseph was listed as a labourer on his death certificate, he was the son of Joseph Dobson who was a landowner in Westmorland, England. On the 1851 UK census he is listed as a 20 year old 'farm son'. The younger Joseph brought his family to Victoria in 1862.
His death certificate is hard to read, as many of them are, part of the problem is a large amount of information squeezed into the alloted area. I don't know how much of it I'm allowed to post here to show you. There is some sort of notation in the first column, looks like 2 letters and the 2nd one could be 'R'.
His first wife died in Docker's Plains which is apparently near Wangaratta. The informants were not family members for either of them. The 4 other entries on the page were all deaths in hospital, so I guess it's possible he died in hospital, although 'hospital' is not written on the certificate.
I might just go for a walk up Spring St anyway.......
Thanks again,
Tracey.
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Just looked at the Probate and he was listed as 'gent'.
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Hi,
His first wife died in Docker's Plains which is apparently near Wangaratta. LACEYTREIGH
http://www.whereis.com/vic/dockers-plains#session=MTA=
As you will see if you explore the regions I have suggested in reply #5, DOCKERS PLAINS near Wangaratta ,was also a place named after Joseph DOCKER.
It suggests the Will and Probate document is for Joseph Dobson (d .15/12/1898) who lived in this area and had a residential address on the Estate.
Perhaps he relocated to Spring Street when he became ill
There is some sort of notation in the first column, looks like 2 letters and the 2nd one could be 'R'. laceyreigh
Could this be UR =Usual Residence? (Per Cando reply #1
Sue
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Thanks Sue,
I did as you suggested and searched for Bontherambo and references to the Docker family. It's quite an impressive estate, and Frederick George Docker was the executor of Joseph's will. I'd love to know what the connection was. Might resume the search tomorrow.
Tracey.
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Tracey I would suggest that the initials in the first column are either UR [usual residence] or NR [normal residence] and it would appear his address was simply Melbourne. Do the other deaths in hospitals registrations have the initials and a suburb under County of Bourke? If he died in a privately owned hospital it may not be noted. There were a couple of boarding houses in the Spring Street in the 1898 directory as well.
Where was Joseph buried? I searched for death notice in the Argus but couldn't see one.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi Cando,
All the entries on the page have what looks like a 2 letter notation in the registration number column and they all look similar. The other 4 all say 'Hospital Gibbs Ward City of Melbourne County of Bourke' then one looks like 'Fitzroy', the others have another word which I can't read.
It's hard to read where he was buried, but it could possibly be Wangaratta Cemetery? The first letter looks like a 'W' then something else, the a letter with a 'tail' and maybe an 'r' and a double 't' nearer the end.
Listed as a labourer on the death certificate, he left an estate of 677 pounds, including 2 mortgages listed as assets, so he had lent money out, and apparently the Salvation Army also owed him money. Why would that be I wonder? On the probate notice he was listed as 'gent'. Big difference.......
His debts were listed as 25 pound to a Dr, 4 pound to a nurse, and a bit over 1 pound for a chemist bill, so he was obviously unwell leading up to his death. His will was written at the end of October.
Thanks again everyone for your input.
Tracey.
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Hi Laceytreigh
The executor of the Will FREDERICK GEORGE DOCKER was the son of Rev JOSEPH DOCKER.
If you think the place of burial is Wangaratta Cemetery , here is link to request a search of the Cemetery's records. There may be a small charge.
I would expect a man of that wealth would have had a headstone and this may give valuable information.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/09v4/
Transport of his remains from Melbourne to Wangaratta may have been by rail as the trainline was well-established by the date of DOBSON's death.
Sue
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Tracey can you snip the sections of the death cert that you are having trouble deciphering? The complete cert must not be posted but small snippets are permitted to allow assistance with deciphering.
Cheers
Cando
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OK, I've never uploaded anything here, so I hope it works!
Sue, I had a look at the link to Wangaratta Cemetery and there is a charge for searching which is to be expected, I'll get on to that this afternoon.
I'll post the 1st bit of the death certificate and the 2nd bit in another post. I think I have his children's names sorted, especially the ones born in England, but I'm struggling with one. There is Eleanor, John, Jane, George, Isabella, ??Joseph, and Matthew. Isabella was the youngest when they arrived, so the last 2 were born here.
Thanks,
Tracey.
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Sorry if that's a bit big!!
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"The other 4 all say 'Hospital Gibbs Ward City of Melbourne County of Bourke' "
Hi Tracey,
could Gibbs be Gipps? I have a relation who died in Gipps ward, Melbourne Hospital which was in South Melbourne.
Regards Alison
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Hi Alison,
Yes, it could be Gipps, thinking how the old cursive 'p' looked. Very sad, 2 little boys, both died from diphtheria. But Joseph's definitely says 'Albert Ward'.
Thanks,
Tracey.
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Another thought Tracey
Could Albert Ward, not be a hospital ward at all? At the time Albert ward was one of the municipal wards of the City of Melbourne. ???
Regards, Alison
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I would say NR Melbourne and buried in Wangaratta Cemetery.
Gipps Ward is the north eastern ward of the City of Melbourne. The [Royal] Melbourne Hospital was never in South Melbourne. First established on the cnr Swanston and Latrobe before moving in to Grattan Street, Parkville.
Albert Ward was a ward of the City of Melbourne - one of it's boundaries was Spring Street.
Cheers
Cando
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Thanks Cando
Seems my info re Melbourne Hospital was wrong :-\
Regards, Alison
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Alison your relative may have died in a hospital however Gipps Ward does not cover South Melbourne. Try google for info. I have the boundaries of the four and later seven electoral wards of the Corporation of the City of Melbourne somewhere but am a bit rushed at the moment.
Cheers
Cando
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Hi TRacey,
I think you have read correctly the column about children.
Eleanor -dead
John- 49 years
Jane 40 years
George- dead
Isabella- ??
Joseph- dead
Matthew- 32 years
For youe interest, GIPPS STREET and ALBERT STREET are cose and parallel roads in East Melbourne.
Sue
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Hi Cando, thanks for the vote for Wangaratta Cemetery. I'll contact the Council and see what I can find out. At first I assumed Albert Ward was in hospital because I'm sure someone told me he died in hospital, but that's the danger of assumptions. Checking up I found that Albert Ward is a ward of the City.
Thanks Sue, Isabella would have been about 4 years younger than Jane, but it looks a bit like 37 to me.
Tracey.
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Thanks Cando,
I'd been told of the South Melb. reference. It just shows how word of mouth can lead to inaccuracies. :(
I've not long been given this death cert. amongst a large mound of paperwork and hadn't checked the fine detail yet. It does take the same format as Tracey's cert. ie Melb Hosp, Gipps Ward, City of Melb, County of Bourke.
So thank you, I would have gone on in blissful ignorance.
Regards, Alison :)
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Hi Tracey
Could I suggest that if you have a chance you visit the State Library of Victoria and check city maps for that timeframe. You might also check for photos of Spring Street from that period. Spring St today is basically the boundary between Melbourne and East Melbourne, if that was the same back in 1898 then the use of East Melbourne on the certificate suggests that we are looking for premises on the East side of Spring St, today there are only three, the Old Treasury Building, the State Houses of Parliament and the Royal Australasian College of Surgeons. The rest is parkland. Also they would be even numbers.
Andy
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Hi Andy,
That's a really good point about Spring St being the boundary between Melbourne and East Melbourne. I'll have to squeeze in a visit to the State Library. My husband is getting used to our travels turning into family research jaunts! Oh well, at least this is on his side of the family! Thanks.
Tracey.
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I have the death certificate of a relative who died in the Gipps Ward in Melbourne Hospital in 1899, a young mum in her 20s at the time. The certificate says she died of "phthisis", which is an archaic term for pulmonary tuberculosis or a similar progressive wasting disease. If she had TB and someone else has relatives with diphtheria who died there, I was wondering if the Gipps Ward was the hospital's infectious disease ward. Just a thought.