RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => West Lothian (Linlithgowshire) => Topic started by: Seoras on Wednesday 06 October 10 00:08 BST (UK)
-
Could anyone tell me where Taylor's Buildings and Mill Cottages were in Avonbridge and if they still exist.I know they were there in 1917.Also looking for anyone who knew or was related to Elizabeth Stein(maiden name Wardlaw)of Avonbridge who died in 1978.
-
Lin Mill Cottage is still there I think, not sure about Taylor Buildings, but I can find out for you next time I take a Bike ride down there. I was born just outside Avonbridge at Crossroads.
James.
PS. Avonbridge is in Stirlingshire so you might want to post in that board.
-
Ah,Stirlingshire,that would make sense as my great great grandfather was a shoemaker in Stirling.Thank you very much James.My granparents marriage certificate says that the wedding took place in Taylor's Buildings Avonbridge.Also could you tell me if there is a churchyard or cemetery in Avonbridge as I think both my grandparents must be buried there.Both were living in Avonbridge when they died.Thank you again for your help.
Seoras.
-
Yes indeed there is a Churchyard there, not too big and easy to walk round, if you give me their names I will have a look.
James.
-
James Stein died 1952 and Elizabeth Stein died 1978.My Grandfather died before I was born but I vaguely remember my grandmother.I would love to find where they are.Thank you again James.
Seoras.
-
George,
Have a look at this other post: http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,319151.15.html
This is the address for Falkirk Council Cemeteries Dept., who also care for Slamannan Cemetery & Churchyard.
James/Mosstrooper - is it Slamannan you're talking about or is there a cemetery in Avonbridge too?
Anne
-
Hi Anne,I will take a look.I'm not sure really.I know they were living in Avonbridge but as it's such a small place I guess they could be buried in the nearest large cemetery.I do know that births in Avonbridge were registered in Slammanan.
-
Went to Avonbridge today and spoke to several people who knew Jimmy Stein & family very well, told me where they lived, first at Taylor Buildings then MainStreet, then at Mill Cottage.
I thought at first Avonbridge had a buirial ground but its just the Church there, burials took place either
in Slamannan or Muiravonside. I chose Slamannan, there was not one stone belonging to Stein so I guess
this family are buried in Muiravonside. For me that will have to wait another day but you can post in the
Stirlingshire board for anyone with the MIs for this ground.
The road to Avonbridge.
Lin Mill Cottage.
-
The open space where Taylor Buildings stood
And Avonbridge Church.
One old man I spoke to said he would have a photo of Taylors Buildings, but not to ask him to find it, he can never find anything he is asked for, another old Lady had a photo collection too, she was in a hurry so I did not detain her.
-
Mosstrooper,how can I ever thank you enough.What a fantastically kind thing to do.I have a lump in my throat just looking at these.Thank you so much for taking the time to go and do this.I have someone else who has offered to finf if my Aunt Grace,Jimmy's daughter is buried at Denny.I have to say I have been overwhelmed by the help and kindness shown by those on this site.Bless you all.
ps.Mosstrooper,do you think these old folks you met will make it through the winter so I can perhaps meet them in Spring lol.I would love to meet and talk to anyone that knew my grandparents.
Seoras.
-
Seoras,
I will take you to their door, they were very friendly and helpful, they mentioned Grace and I think Margaret
Jimmy, The old Lady has a Village photo collection which she said she had just got back after lending it out to a man.
I was born just outside the village at Crossroads, a mile up the Slamannan road and they know all my family too.
The door of Lin Mill Cottage
And The Linn Mill itself.
-
Wow thanks again Mossman,I have these saved now.I don't remember Margaret but feel sure they must have had more children as they married in 1917 and Grace and my mother didn't come along till much later in the 1930's.
-
Mossman,I have just been to Avonbridge on Google Earth.Is that patch of wasteground where Taylor's Buildings stood by the river and across the road from the pub?
Seoras.
-
That is it exactly as shown to me today.
James.
-
Hi there,
My father in law has just informed me that there was a Willie Stein who lived in Gateside Cottage at Standburn, not sure if this is any relation to you?
Strange thing is now that the house was converted into a two storey building and is owned by my older cousin.
If it is a connection I will try and get before and after pictures for you.
Gillian
-
Here is a photo of Crossroads dated 1928 with my Granda Paddy Reynolds and Granny Agnes. Aunt Rose in the doorway, notice the fresh water system on the right of the picture (Barrel under the ronepipe)
James.
-
Not sure Gillian.My great great grandmother was a Stein but seems to be a woman of mystery.I know she died at 2 Linmill Road,Avonbridge in 1944.And I am sure my grandfather must have had siblings and more children than the two I know.Looking back the four generations I have got so far we do seem to be a somewhat fertile family.I am going to have to get the heaps of scribbling out and have a look because I know Standburn is mentioned somewhere.I feel like Sherlock Holmes at the moment ha ha.Trying to piece all the bits together and it definately isn't elementary.
Seoras.
-
James,brilliant,I know now exactly where it is.And you my new found friend should get some of your fantastic music on CD.
George
-
Brilliant photo James.What wouldn't I give for a family photo like that.It gives me a great sense of what it looked like there at the time.You know your folks must have known mine at that time,it's not exactly overpopulated.
George.
-
I had two Aunts who lived in Avonbridge at that time and they would most certainly know each other. My aunt
Rose standing in the doorway of that photo was the Music Teacher in Avonbridge. (Piano and Accordian ) and
lived just off the main street.
James.
-
No way,apparently my mother was taught to play the piano.Could it be your aunt actually taught her.This site is amazing.
George.
-
If your mother was taught to play piano in Avonbridge between about 1925 & 1970 ish then she would be taught by my Aunt Rose.
James.
-
1940's/50's so I guess she most certainly was.It's a small world isn't it.
George.
-
I was born in that house in 1941 and my Aunt Rose played at all the local dances in the halls, plus the Organ in Church before, and after I was born.
James.
-
I was told that my grandfather James,was something to do with the church,warden perhaps? so he would definately have known your aunt Rose.
George.
-
Everyone I spoke to today knew your family, as soon as I said Stein, "Oh Aye Jimmy Stein" then they would tell me about them. It was just the same back then, even more so because times were so hard you had to rely on each other. You will learn all this when you get here.
James.
-
Can't wait.It's like a voyage of discovery.
George.
-
The Ladies will have you in for Tea and the men will take you to the Pidgeon Loft.
You better learn to dance too, that is a big feature in the village hall I understand.
James.
-
Ha ha,I can dance like Fred Astair James.Your mention of the Pigeon Loft brought back some long lost memories as I do remember as A child men keeping pigeons there.And tea with the ladies sounds fine ha ha.
George.
-
Last comment for tonight, its past my bedtime nanny says.
You mention Fred Astair, his partner Ginger Rogers was asked once what it was like to dance with the great man
she replied " I do all the same steps as mr. Astair.................in high heels..........going backwards.
James.
-
ha ha touche,thanks again for all you have done today James.Speak again soon.
George.
-
Gillian,further to my earlier message,forget the slabhead lol.I think Willie Stein is something to do with me.This however is the address where the other side of my family were living.I can't decipher it.The nearest I can get is Coalhead Cottage?
George.
-
It says "Snabhead Cottage".
-
Thank you very much Alan.Now does anyone have any Idea what the hell a snabhead is lol.
Seoras.
-
While I'm here could anyone tell me where this could be.It's from my great grandparents marriage certificate.The groom is living in South Street Armadale and the marriage took place in Armadale.The bride is listed as a domestic servant at these mills which I presume must be or have been in that area.But what is the name of the mills.
Now added a pic of Gorgie Mills with grateful thanks to Alan.
Seoras.
-
Snab n. - a steep, short slope e.g. Buckstone Snab NT2469, Coldwell Snab NY4897
from http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/freefun/didyouknow/placenames/scotsglossary-n-y.html (http://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/oswebsite/freefun/didyouknow/placenames/scotsglossary-n-y.html)
As for above, it looks like Gorgie Mills, Gorgie.
-
Gorgie Mills was adjacent to the cattle market/slaughterhouse at Chesser Avenue in Edinburgh and a big industrial centre for gluemaking at the turn of the century.
See http://www.edinphoto.org.uk/0_buildings_g/0_buildings_-_gorgie_mills_moe120.htm
-
Alan you diamond.I have spent hours on Google Earth looking for a place called Gorgie.I thought that is what it said but couldn't find a place with that name.And Snabhead,thanks again,given the area that makes sense.Right off to Edinburgh now.I have another ancestor to track down from there,a Margaret Dunlop,born in Prestonfield I think around 1813.I know she married a Walter Brown from Bo'ness in 1835.Thanks again Alan.
Further to above Alan.I found Chesser Avenue on Google Earth,just off the Gorgie Road which runs past Hearts football ground.Also followed your link and now have a photo of Gorgie Mills.Brilliant,thank you.
George.
-
George, Snab, in West Lothian at Least, is a shoemaker, I had a rellie named Clydesdale in Snab Pit, Bo'ness, they lived at Snab cottages. Snab Lane & Snab Brae, north of Kinneil house. Skoosh.
Try this site with the map & aerial pic' on the same page, type in Bo'ness top left and navigate with the map, the pic' follows.
http://wheresthepath.googlepages.com/wheresthepath.htm
-
Snabhead is an area to the north of Standburn, there is still standing a Snabhead Farm - unsure of cottage location at the moment. This area is next to the old Craigend works.
-
Skoosh,I have two shoemakers,father and son in the family it seems.I shall forever refer to shoes as Snabs,lol.My Bo'ness link is a Walter Brown,who was a blacksmith as was his son.Walter would appear to be my great great great grandfather.Two lines from my family seem to have married Browns so it's proving a bit confusing.
Gillian good luck with the Snabhead cottage/farm link.If it's any help my great grandmother,Elizabeth Stein is listed on her marriage certificate as a farm worker aged 18.Ps this is not James' wife who was also Elizabeth Stein,but his mother,help!!!
George.
-
Snabhead Cottage is still to be seen, though I think the original fabric may have been removed and rebuilt as you see it today.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=standburn&sll=53.800651,-4.064941&sspn=13.596707,39.506836&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Standburn,+Falkirk,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.958018,-3.728828&spn=0.012565,0.054932&t=h&z=15&layer=c&cbll=55.958028,-3.720628&panoid=mefkctqrjLRruSKDruWDDQ&cbp=12,286,,0,-2.66
-
Here's how Avonbridge used to look before the War. This view is looking Northwards along what is now called Main Street.
Here's how it looks today from the same viewpoint:
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=avonbridge&sll=55.958028,-3.720628&sspn=0.012661,0.054932&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=Avonbridge,+Falkirk,+United+Kingdom&ll=55.93198,-3.745402&spn=0.000792,0.003433&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=55.932115,-3.745361&panoid=xhUFSfgTZvy4I6EL4DzPjg&cbp=12,4.21,,0,6.83
-
The Forester,go straight to the top of my Cristamas card list.I have just got in from a very long and hard day to find this.I was born in this street,not I might add at the time of the horse and cart.However my grandparents would have known it like this.I was born in their house.I haven't seen it since I was three or four but mean to visit soon along with other places locally where I have found roots.Thank you so much,you have made my day.
George.
-
George, auld Scots saying, "Wan Broon's enough in a toon", I never made this up! Scoosh.
-
Laughing out loud Skoosh,especially as I seem to remember a cartoon comic called The Broons.I started off following my Wardlaw line but find I am awash with Broons.I have Broons popping up all over the place.In fact I seem to have Broons in every toon.Still made up with the photo from Forester above.I was baptised in the church on the right,and no that is not me being taken home after in the pony and trap.
George.
-
(http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=487385.0;id=199943;image)
I've got a bit more info about Snabhead for you, Seoras:
In the second half of the 20th century, and perhaps for some time previously, it was farmed and lived in by Jimmy Watson. He was still on the go as recently as the 1990s. His two sons later took over the farm and squeezed him out in less than pleasant circumstances.
I've confirmed my earlier guess that the original cottage was razed and the present structure was built on its footprint.
-
Mosstrooper's picture of Crossroads intrigues me.
(http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=487385.0;id=199911;image)
What is the name of the Cottage, as displayed over the doorway?
Was this building on the South side of the Crossroads? Or was it where the dog boarding kennels now are?
Family tradition used to say that "we had relatives at Crossroads", but I've got little more to go on other than a single entry in the marriage register of GG-Grandmother Janet in 1855. She is shown as normally living at Greenhill, but presently living at Crossroads. I presume this was a temporary arrangement as both bride and groom lived at Greenhill and there's a tradition that groom should not see bride on the evening before or the morning of the wedding until she walks down the aisle, though it may be that her parents lived there.
Relevant surnames are Johnston; Fleming and Binnie.
-
Hi Forester,thanks again for the photo.I have had some lovely colouring jobs done on it by the kind folk on here,you should take a look on the restore and colouring site(it's under 'my Scottish village').Mosstrooper tells me that this cottage is no longer there but it was on the south side I think across from where the kennels are.I should send him a personal message,he is very helpful and went out of his way to get me some photographs and information.The girl in the doorway is his aunt and in an amazing coincidence we reckon that she probably taught my mother to play piano.
ps.just seen the info about Snabhead.Thanks for that.It seems a lot of these original buldings are no more but at least I now know where it was.
George.
-
Forrester,
This building was on the South side of the road at Crossroads, today it is just a fenced off clump of trees the deeds to which still remain in the family. The cottage which stood where the Kennels are now was occupied by Mrs. Peddie I believe who ran a wee sweetie shop out of her kitchen door.
The name above my Aunt Rose pictured in 1928 is Sorn Cottage, see photo. I was born in this building. Next to the cottage is a two story building, My Grandfather and Granny moved in there with Aunt Rose and her husband Arthur Brannan in the top flat and Granny below on ground level, both levels were connected at one time because I remember a closed off staircase inside. The Sorn Cottage was then occupied by Johnny and Jenny Scally who emigrated to Portland Oregon in 1951. Next to these buildings on the same plot of land was a cottage (derelict) called Unionside and further down the road toward Avonbridge was a cottage called Badour, Jock McGlyn from Limerigg has just bought and cleared this plot hoping to build a house there again.
The names , Johnston, Fleming and Binnie are familiar to me, especially Fleming who I believe lived in the Castellated type house up the hill from the Kennels, this I believe was the Gatehouse to a Mansion in the trees called either Parkneuk or Avonhill. This house still stands and I spoke to the present resident about a year ago, he too is interested in the area.
James.
-
Good morning James,I hope all is well with you.Some very good information there once again.
George.
-
Good morning George, its a lovely day I will probably go out on my Scooter with a camera, who know what I might see.
James.
-
James and Forester here is one of the colour restorations that a very talented Roots Chat member did for me of the photo kindly sent by Forester.
-
And another one.Thanks to Bill and David for the super job they have done.Feel free to copy them.
-
The village is still much the same apart from Council houses on both sides of the road where the Horse & Cart are.
If anyone wants a present day photo I can do that from the same vantage point.
James.
-
Yes please James.
George.
-
Here is Avonbridge today, from the same vantage point, and and a bit closer so you can see the Church.
James.
-
Here is a view of the house at Crossroads where I believe the Fleming family lived. This was a Gatehouse to
a large Mansion House.
James.
-
Wow thank you very much indeed James.Is this Main Street?
George.
-
Yes, this is the Main Street through the village, there are one or two side streets on the right but apart from that
the village is strung out along the main street and Slamannan road.
James.
-
I was born in this street.Looking at the early photo,in one of those fields ha ha.Thank you so much for going to the trouble of taking those James,.I can't wait to come up there and see for myself.Looks like you had a lovely day with the weather there today.
George.
-
I've been following this thread with great interest and have thoroughly enjoyed all the findings for George!
Before you visit, or just to have a walk round Avonbridge, why not go to Google Maps, pull the 'wee man' onto the map and you'll be able to have a really good look around.
http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?hl=en&tab=wl&q=avonbridge
Anne
-
Anne,
Thank you for being with us on this wee voyage round Avonbridge and its surrounds, like you I try to help where I can and when George comes north as he plans, I will meet him and introduce him to locals who remember his family and where they were.
James.
-
I look forward to that James,and Anne thank you for the link.I am settled with a cuppa and about to have a stroll.
George.
-
Mosstrooper,Hi James,I have now traced much more info on my great grandmother Elizabeth Stein,Jimmy's mother(not to be confused with his wife also Elizabeth Stein)He was not as I thought an only child.He had by her first husband two brothers,Hugh and John and two sisters,Elizabeth and Robina who was born 19 days after her husband died from pneumonia.He also had a younger sister Jane from her second marriage.This Jane married a Crawford Allingham from Torpichen in 1918.James had at least 7 children,Thomas,George,Elizabeth,Rachel,Grace,James and finally my mother Jane.I am wondering if this James is the Jimmy people remember or is it my grandfather.
George.
-
George, came across this when searching for something else, a marriage, John Stein, Uphall, West Lothian, to Barbara Chapman, 1st July, 1853.
skoosh.
-
Ooh,I will check that out Skoosh,my great grandmother had an elder brother called John.According to my sister,I am related to the former footballer Colin Stein and possibly former Scotland manager Jock Stein.However she may be having delusions or halucinations as she also reckons our Wardlaw line are decended from nobility whereas I can only find them digging coal ;D ;D ;D
George.
-
Goldstein, Rubenstein, oy vey!
skoosh.
-
Nope,can't be my John Skoosh,he wasn.t born till 1861.I will have a look anyway could be a link.Where is Uphall? Ooh and it seems I could have been a bit hasty about the Wardlaws just digging coal...................some were digging ironstone. ;D
George.
-
Skoosh or Mosstrooper,do either of you know what the mill at Avonbridge was producing and when it closed,well and opened if possible.
George.
-
That area is countryside, no industry of any kind apart from Coal Mining, the mills would be
Corn Grinding Mills I think. Some Lint was grown in the area and used for weaving.
http://www.falkirklocalhistorysociety.co.uk/home/index.php?id=60
James.
-
Good evening James,I hope you are well.Thank you for the link,I will spend some time on there I think.
addition. James thanks for that link,very interesting,especially the photo of the brickworks at the end.I am pretty sure my father worked there for a while.
George.
-
as you have years of deaths phone folkirk cemetry services on 01324 503650 they hold the records for all burials in the area and will be able to give cemetry buried and lair number
jim
-
Thanks for that Jim.I do now have some definate dates so will see what I can find out.I would particularly like to find where my great grandmother is.She seems to have been a remarkable woman and has become a particular favourite of mine in my search.Do you know how far back their records go?
George.
-
George, was Avonbridge not a paper mill, there were two in Linlithgow further downstream! Skoosh.
-
I think you are correct Skoosh,I seem to remember something about that.Now if only I can remember where I remember it from ;D.I will contact the West Lothian history site,see if they know for sure.I am wondering if the Taylor's Buidings that were by the bridge,where the mill would have been were something to do with it.My gran was a millworker and living there before she was married.Thanks for that jog Skoosh.
George.
-
Let's disambiguate the mills.
The paper mill was a couple of miles downriver at Westfield.
The grain mill was on the left bank of the river, immediately downstream from the bridge. No trace of it remains and the site is now a little bit of parkland.
The Taylor Hall was made from the buildings(s) which had previously been a woollen mill. The site later became a garage and some of the older locals still refer to it as the 'petrol station'.
-
Forester thank you very much for that information.Can you tell me,of these mills which is the one likely to have been operating in 1917.Also do any photos exist of the Taylor's Hall(Buildings).
Thanks for your help.
George.
-
The grain mill, downstream of the bridge and on the opposite bank, was still in use in 1917.
Taylor Hall was already a Hall by then. It is annotated as such on the 1917 Ordnance Survey map whereas it was shown as still being a woollen mill on the 1897 map.
Lint mills are a different matter altogether. There were several in the vicinity, mostly very small affairs. They didn't need much motive power as they just beat already soaked fibres for conversion from flax to linen yarn. That takes a lot less energy than turning great big grinding stones or racks and racks of spinning/weaving machines.
The Lennis Burn, as it is actually called locally, is misnamed on the OS maps as "Lin Mill Burn". I'm pretty sure that the mislabelling came about from a surveyor asking a local what the name of 'that' was, pointing to the river. The local seems to have misunderstood what was being pointed at and replied "lint mill". The glottle stop of the local dialect renders the 't' sound of 'lint' silent, so the surveyor seems to have transcribed the given answer as being the name of the river rather than the nature of the building beside it.
Once those errors go into print on the map the wrongness gradually becomes right as some people start to use the wrong name instead of the correct name. An example of that can be seen in the name of the late Aileen Scott's house as shown in the picture on message #10 of this thread. The house has never been a mill, but it is located next to the inaccurately 'named' Lin Mill Burn and has taken its name from that. Thus a name has been erroneously transferred from a real mill to a non-mill house.
-
Very interesting Forester and I look forward to seeing the places myself next year.I was a 5 year old last time I saw Avonbridge and my recollections are jumbled.My grandmother is down on her marriage certificate as millworker Avonbridge so no idea which one.I know she was married at the Taylor Hall,though it says Taylor's Buildings on the certificate.She also lived in Lin Mill Rd. for a while.My great grandmother died in the same house.Thank you for that information.
George.
-
Hi Mosstrooper
Next time you are in Avonbridge!!! I wonder if you could enquire about the Wilsons of Bridgend Farm - my Grandfather james Wilson (maybe Jimmy? and his 2nd wife) lived there and I cannot find out much about them. I know he worked in a paper mill in his latter years.
After my Grandfather's death I believe Granny Wilson moved to Taylor's Building (thats what rang bells with me when I read this posting)
I know the farm had a fire when it was empty and bought to build a new bungalow. It had been rented from a Mr Johnston but thats all I know. Local info would be very interesting.
Thanks - hope you will have time.
Hazelnuts
-
Hazelnuts,
I will certainly ask around for you, right now I'm just trying to locate Bridgend Farm on any maps.
The Papermill you refer to will be Westfield Mill (now demolished).
James.
-
Just looked on Google Map - from memory Bridgend Farm was behind number 10 and 12 Bridgend Road. Looks like a farm or business of some kind there now .
Before the houses were built there was an acre field in front of the cottage and a lane ran past which led down to the river.
-
Hazelnuts,do you know when this farm burned down.
-
I visited the cottage and saw it had had a fire (not sure of year - at a guess I would say around 1972) - I was told the cottage had been sold by Mr Johnston in 1961 - after the fire it was demolished
and a new bungalow built on the site. I spoke to a lady Mrs Morton who I think lived there.
She did tell me her husband remembered the Wilsons who had lived there.
-
Hazelnuts,
My aunts Rose & Sarah lived in those Avonbridge streets, my cousin Bert Hunter
still lives there. This next bit might be entirely unrelated, but I will tell it anyway.
Mid to late 1940s I lived in a small row of houses built by a Coal Company in the 1870s.
One room, one door, one window, no water, Gas or Electricity, the place was called
Heatherfield, just outside Limerigg, not far from Avonbridge. This place was condemned
before we moved in I think, a row of 4 houses. The County border ran right through the
middle, two houses in Lanarkshire, two in Stirlingshire, when the place was flattened we went
West to the Airdrie district. The family on the other end were called Wilson, to the best of my
recollection John Wilson and his wife, they had a daughter Cecilia, they were Christians who
possessed a pedal Organ, which blasted out Hymns on a nightly basis with the whole family
singing through walls made of paper.
They went East in the direction of Avonbridge, which makes me wonder.
James.
-
Hi Mosstrooper
Nice to hear from you and read your story = I love to hear these treasures but no Cecelia and no
Organ I am sorry to say. Its snippets like that, that open up the memories.
My Grandfather's and his family worked for the Oil Shale company (probably Young's) but beyond my Grandfather's marriage in 1894 I have been unable to go. There certainly was a LOT of Wilsons.
Thanks for sharing.