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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Staffordshire => Topic started by: Boy Scout on Thursday 14 October 10 08:35 BST (UK)
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My wife and I are currently researching the Fynney family of Leek and thereabouts. I am in contact with a man in Canada who is a Finney and says that there is a disk in existence on the Subject of the Fynneys of Staffordshire.
Has anyone any knowledge of this please.
Thanks to all.
Boy Scout
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Hi Boy Scout,
This link takes you to information on the Fynney family in Leek - hope it helps.
http://members.tripod.com/finney_clan/id11.html
Cathy ;D ;D
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Thanks Cathymip nice one.
I've already seen this one quite interesting
Boy Scout
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Hi boy scout
my great great grandmother was Anne Dyson maiden name rigby born runcorn her father was thomas thelfall rigby and her mother was Elizabeth fynney her parents were Richard fynney form leek staffordshire and her mother was Priscilla fynney have you a Richard in the research you are doing on the fynneys
Wendy
PS Anne Dyson daughters put a tablet up in her memory
To the glory of god and to the beloved memory of Anne Dyson born may 1839 died march 19Th 1909 and grand daughter of Richard fynney Esq of leek staffordshire this tablet is erected by her loving daughters
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Hello Wendy,
I do not think that your Fynney's are in the lines we have been researching. It is possible that the are connected further back as it is fairly well established that the ancestors of the Leek Fynneys spelt with a Y and not i go back a long way in Staffordshire.
I may have a clue for you in that I see that on another Post you started reference is made to a Priscilla MOUNTFOTD Fynney.
We are aware that on 25th July 1846 a Mountford Fynney a silk manufacturer of Leek married a Ann Clee also of Leek his father John Fynney was a Butcher and her father William Clee was a Painter and Plumber. This took place at Leek Parish Church, the witnesses were Joseph and Jane Finn. I believe that they had a son Edmond born 1846 and a daughter Elizabeth born 1851 all can be seen on family search.
I'm not sure if this is relevant but may help. If you can trace your Fynneys back to a Samuel Fynney b 1693 then there is a connection.
Good Luck
Boy Scout
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Hi - I am a descendent of the "Fynney JOHNSON" family - the name appearing to become interlinked in the late 1700s.
Would be interested in sharing research, if any one else is interested.
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I have an Elizabeth Finney born abt 1801 Leek, she married my 3x grandfather Joseph bratt at St.Edwards Church Leek. The lived in Ladderedge/longsdon area,leek,staffordshire.
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i have a finney lineage from nearby Ellastone /alton/farley going back to Thomas Fynnye born c 1555. this line is probably related to those in Leek. but atm i have no direct , confirmed link. ill post it here if anyones interested?
recent dna test shows i have dna relatives in america and canada, maybe some finney dna is in that mix?
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Boy Scout:
Have you tried the Leek & District Historical Society for information on the disc
http://www.bednallarchive.info/misc/l&mhistsoc/leek_hist_soc.htm
I'm going to Lichfield Archives on Monday, I'll ask them if they have any knowledge, or can point me in the right direction.
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BumbleB,
Thank you for that. I have spoken to the Leek and District Historical Society who could not help with the disc but were helpful in other areas. I am aware of the Bednall achieve which is a fascinating record and has been helpful with Fynney and associated families.
Any information on the Fynney family would be interesting. I have checked The Litchfield online search but there is nothing obvious.
Thanks again
Boy Scout
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England 100
I have checked through my notes but I can't find anyone who fits in with Elizabeth Finney and Joseph Bratt. We have several named Elizabeth but her dates are wrong for the line we have been tracing.
Sorry
Boy Scout
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Hi Boy Scout
Have you seen this document at Derbyshire RO?
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/calmview/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D3580%2fZF%2f47&pos=41
It is a hand written account of the Fynney pedigree
"taken from Jacob's Peerage and the Gentleman's magazine" - no exact date on it - Derbys RO have estimated '19th Century"
It starts "The Fynney estate, near Leek, consisting of woodlands, was a gift of William the Conquerer.........", and goes through many, many generations.
There is also a hand drawn family tree of the Fynney's from William Fynney of Cheddleton, Leek, died 1584, at William Salt library in Stafford.
Ref Z/19/00p83
There is also a fantastic tome entitled "History of the Ancient Parish of Leek", (which I happened across on a second hand book stall in Leek market, but unfortunately couldn't buy!), written 1883 by John Sleigh of the Inner Temple, which has a whole chapter on the Fynneys. I'd say with pretty much the same information as the handwritten account at Derbyshire RO. There is a beautiful picture of the "Fynney Brass" - to Fielding Best Fynney.
I have images if you'd be interested
I have a lot of information about the branch of Fynneys who then went to Ashford in the Water Derbyshire. I have not come across the CD you mention anywhere! ;)
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May as well jump on the bandwagon! I have Finney ancestry, Sarah Finney b.1745 to William Finney and Anne Salt. She married James Brunt. They were from Ellastone.
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May as well jump on the bandwagon! I have Finney ancestry, Sarah Finney b.1745 to William Finney and Anne Salt. She married James Brunt. They were from Ellastone.
hello distant relation! *waves*
sarah 1745 was elder sister to john 1753 (parents william/ann salt) my greatx4 granddad on my mothers side.
how far back have you got? i have
william (m ann salt) 1718
johnathan 1678
william 1636
raphe 1612
john 1578
thomas c 1555 - all from Ellastone. (couldnt find any gravestones for these - went yesterday.
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Ah hello!! I'll pm you in a bit :)
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Hi Boy Scout
Have you seen this document at Derbyshire RO?
http://calmview.derbyshire.gov.uk/calmview/Record.aspx?src=CalmView.Catalog&id=D3580%2fZF%2f47&pos=41
It is a hand written account of the Fynney pedigree
"taken from Jacob's Peerage and the Gentleman's magazine" - no exact date on it - Derbys RO have estimated '19th Century"
It starts "The Fynney estate, near Leek, consisting of woodlands, was a gift of William the Conquerer.........", and goes through many, many generations.
There is also a hand drawn family tree of the Fynney's from William Fynney of Cheddleton, Leek, died 1584, at William Salt library in Stafford.
Ref Z/19/00p83
There is also a fantastic tome entitled "History of the Ancient Parish of Leek", (which I happened across on a second hand book stall in Leek market, but unfortunately couldn't buy!), written 1883 by John Sleigh of the Inner Temple, which has a whole chapter on the Fynneys. I'd say with pretty much the same information as the handwritten account at Derbyshire RO. There is a beautiful picture of the "Fynney Brass" - to Fielding Best Fynney.
I have images if you'd be interested
I have a lot of information about the branch of Fynneys who then went to Ashford in the Water Derbyshire. I have not come across the CD you mention anywhere! ;)
WOW.... this has quite interesting ramifications as 'finneys' are supposed to be of irish descent but that article points to them being french .
very interesting, thanks for sharing :)
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Goldie61,
Thanks for that information. We have a copy of the Sleigh's history in the family but not in my personal possession and I have copies of the relevant pages. This history, although in Sleigh's book, was provided by Doctor Fielding Best Fynney 1743-1806. This same man was responsible for the Fynney Brass at Cheddleton. This brass is now difficult to see as it is high up the church wall at the rear having been moved from the chancery in the 1970's. This history is challenged in the gentleman's magazine of the time where also, as you say, it was published.
I was not aware of the handwritten tree and I will try to obtain a copy no doubt they will have an online system or post. We live in South Devon so calling in is not an option.
I will send you a pm with my details and would be interested to see what you have regarding Ashford, which I have no knowledge of.
Thanks for this it all sounds fascinating.
Boy Scout
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Hi Boy Scout
I'm glad to get confirmation of the decision I finally came to about the Fynney brass. :P
There are lots of references to it on-line - and the wonderful picture of it in Sleigh's book. However, I spent a very frustrating afternoon at Cheddleton church looking for it in the summer! Made even more frustrating as I had come some 12,000 miles to see it! (Well, not just that of course, but it was 'on my list') The vicar and church warden were also in the church that afternoon - and neither of them knew anything about it - they both thought I was mad! There are several memorials in the church, most of them on the wall as you say - and the biggest is way, way up high so that you can't see it, or read anything on it. It now looks like it is made of slate of some sort and not brass, presumably as it hasn't been cleaned for many, many years. You would need a very long ladder to get anywhere near it. So I had to come to the conclusion that this must be the missing Fynney one.
I have also read that there is a Fynney tomb 'in the chancel' at Cheddleton, but there was no sign of it, and as I said, the vicar and church warden knew nothing about any Fynneys in the church. She, the vicar, did say there were still Fynneys living locally.
Thanks for the pm.
cheers 8)
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Goldie61,
I have photographs of the "Brass" if you would like a copy I am happy to share it. My mail address is on the pm which I sent to you.
There is a Fynney vault in the chancel at St. Edwards, Cheddleton frustratingly the church do not seem to have details of who is in it. I have contacted them on several occasions without success. As you point out the "Brass" is very high up and written in Latin. It bears the name of Fielding Best Fynney and his son Alfred Augustus Fynney 1782-1819, both of these men and others are in the tomb.
Cheers
Boy Scout
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Hi Boy Scout
I have the photo of the Fynney Brass from the Sleigh book thanks.
Do you have one in situ in the church? I'm afraid mine is a poor effort as I was trying to zoom in to see what it said - to no avail.
Do you know who else is buried in the Fynney vault?
I have sent you an email.
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Hello,
My Last name is Phinney and the brass you are talking about i think i have an up close charcoal rub of it.
I can send a pic to you to verify if this is valid but it is all in latin and could be translated
I always wanted an actual picture of it to see the colours
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Attempting to Do research of my Phinney last name.... I am from Canada so attempting to follow the trail and the reasoning my grandfather had the picture of our "apparent" coat of arms and if it legit or not
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Hello Pantsdown,
First of all welcome to RootsChat I hope that you find this forum as helpful as I have.
As you will see from this topic the "Brass" is not easy to photograph as it has been moved from it's original position in the chancel to high on a wall at the rear of the church. One of the contributors to this thread has taken the best photograph which has been kindly passed to me. This photograph is together with the Latin. In short what the wording asserts that Doctor Fielding Best Fynney 1743-1806 is a descendent of a line of Fynney the first of who came over to England in 1066 with William the Conqueror. I have not researched this assumption which appears in a book also referred to here called Sleigh's History of The Ancient Parish of Leek.
The "Brass" is in fact better described as a plaque the centre of which contains the writing may well be brass and when in it's original position in the Chancery could have been subject to copy by rubbing.
I am happy to forward to you what I have on this.
I have researched the Fynney family line from Fielding Best Fynney and have never come across your family spelling of the surname but with Genealogy anything is possible.
My understanding of this forum is that to use the PM system individuals need three posts you have two if you make a reply to this you can then send a PM to me with your e-mail address and I will forward the photographs to you.
Much has been said about this "Brass" and I have to confess that I'm not clear on how to post a picture for others to see. I am under grand parenting pressure at the moment due to the school summer break. I will make an effort to post a picture I'm sure it will be simple but still better for you that I send one to you direct you can then zoom if needed.
Thank you for posting.
Boy Scout
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Thanks, Boy Scout for the run down...
I can also send you the rubbing of the Brass that we have in our family taken from that church apparently...
This is why I was asking questions to my family of how we got this brass charcoal rubbing when our name is Phinney etc...Some sites say Phinney originates from different spellings of it due to how the census people would hear it and write it down.
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Hi pantsdown and welcome to Rootschat
You don’t say who your ancestor was that went to America.
There is a famous Samuel Finney who went to America with William Penn in 1701, who by 1703 “had been appointed a member of Penn's Council in Pennsylvania. He built a house about 20 miles from Philadelphia and died there in 1711.”
See this short bio for a bit more information about him.
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/c270aedc-ffcc-4440-bf87-9f9db321a529
I see you are interested in the colours of the Finney crest.
I’m not sure the photo of the Fynney Brass is going to help you much!
There are no colours on the actual brass itself of course.
There are a couple of oval ‘shields’ on either side of the actual brass plaque on the monument, that have smaller crests on, (plus some writing which is now impossible to read). These crests look as if they were coloured, but now are very difficult to make out.
They are a little different to the crest on the actual brass.
They look as if they are a version of the “3 martlets with a chevron in the centre”. (A martlet was a bird like a swallow evidently, often used in heraldry). This shield is typically coloured red with a gold chevron and gold birds if you Google ‘Finney crest”. However, it is very difficult to say if these were the colours used on the Finney monument. Possibly the birds, (can’t even be sure they are the same birds), and chevron were gold, but the background now is just black.
As you know, the crest on the actual brass is split. The left hand side has the 3 birds and chevron, (look like different sort of birds - not martlets), and the right hand side has possibly two different motifs. Possibly the arms of his mother? or wife?
If you are really interested in this you could contact the College of Arms - they hold all the information about coats of arms, heraldry etc.
www.college-of-arms.gov.uk/
As to the Phinney/Fynney/Finney debate, you’re quite right in saying diferent clerks would have spelt the name differently.
This is from a search at The National Archives Discovery site.
The clerk has written ‘Phinney’ and ‘Finney’ even just within the same document.
Hope this has been of some interest.
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Just checking you have seen my post of a week ago with all the Finney information which I hope you found interesting. :)
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Yes, that information is awesome, thank you... also did you want a close-up copy of the brass from that tomb of Fielding Best-Fynney?
Cheers
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For those with Ellastone/Wootton Finney connections there is a book "Owd Ross Hall" the Story of jean-Jacques Roousseau in Wootton" by Simon Manby which mentions Samuel Finney (1746 - 1823) as acting as a servant for the philosoper during his stay at Wootton hall
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Hi I am looking for a picture of the Fynney brass if at all possible? We used to have a picture of it along with a great number of old family wills referencing William the conquerer etc but sadly they have been lost over the years. Can you help me at all by any chance or point me in the right direction please? It would mean alot to our family. Thanks! Debs
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debfinney, welcome to Roots Chat.
I have quite a lot on the Fynney family and may be able to help with a few things. I have a photograph of "The Fynney Brass" which is not too good as it's very high up on the church wall and is difficult to photograph and read. This so called "Brass" is inside the church of Edward the Confessor at Cheddleton, Staffordshire.
This exchange of photographs can be achieved better by using the personal message system. To access P.M., on this forum you will have to make three separate posts before you can use this system. Posts need not be long, just three separate posts.
Can you explain which line of the Fynney family you are descended from, in order not to contraveane the rules of Roots Chat do not mention any living persons by name in your reply.
Thank You
Boy Scout
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Fantastic. Yes my parents in law married at Cheddleton, we have existing Fielding and Wilshaw Finneys in our family.
I'll make another post so we can PM.
Thank you for your advice! I am very new to this
:)
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We are part of the Finneys that used to have Biggin Hall
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debfinney,
Have your P. M. and am sorting out a picture of the brass for you as requested in the P. M.
Boy Scout
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is there a conclusive family tree that links william the conquerers 'baron finnis' to the finney family of staffordshire? i have failed to find (on the domesday book) any record of lands (woodlands) near leek being given to 'baron finnis'.
ive seen family trees on ancestry, but these are often copied and pasted off others and my experience of those trees would suggest a large dose of scepticism is required because they often dont add up . (like the one i saw the other day where somebody married a woman 200 years after he died) .
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the nearest I have seen is the Fynney Brass in Cheddleton
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With regards to the so called "Fynney Brass" here is what I believe to be the English translation of the Latin; not my work.
Behold here is the hereditary tomb of Fielding Best Fynney and Maria his wife,
son of Samuel Fynney and Sarah his wife, of Fynney in the
Parish of Cheddleton and county of Staffordshire
Armigeri (armour - bearer)
Bearer of the Coat of Arms, a descendent through the direct male line
of John, Baron Finis, blood relative of William the Conqueror in the
place above mentioned in the year of 1066 And more over Hereditary
Governer of the Forts of Dover in the county of Kent, and Custodian
And Guardian of the Five Ports In the year of 1083"
Not really evidence of the bloodline more of a statement of what Fielding Best believed.
Fielding Best Fynney Died in 1806.
Boy Scout
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As far as relates to the Fynney, Finney families. There are several pedigrees’ recorded in different places. Including the William Salt Museum but that one does not go back as far as 1066.
The main reference seems to be John Sleigh in his book of 1883 “History of The Ancient Parish of Leek”.
He quotes:-
The Fynney estate, consisting of woodlands and a large tract of country, was a gift of William the Conqueror to "his kinsman Fenis" (v. William of Worster's papers at the end of the Black-book of the Exchequer, vol. 2, p. 524.)
Sleigh goes on from there through a series of 26 individuals with a view of confirming his male bloodline to show continuity up to the date of the publication.
There seems to be little doubt that Mr. Sleigh’s information is gleaned from Doctor Fielding Best Fynney 1743-1806, the man responsible for the much mentioned Fynney Brass. This man’s original handwritten notes are in possession of the University of California having been bought by them in 1963.
That said when this assumption was published it was subject to much criticism at the time especially so in the Gentleman’s Magazine. In short whether true or not can’t be said for sure.
This is the only record I have seen going from 1066 to 1883.
I have read that the land that you referred to was at Fynney Farm, Basford where a house still stands albeit rebuilt in 1610 and the land in and around Pickwood Hall, Leek where a Thomas Fynney was resident during the Civil War.
Boy Scout
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very interesting boy scout.
id be much happier if i could find a mention of such lands in the 1086 domesday book. so far i have not found any mention of 'john finis' in the domesday book.
that disappoints me, as id like this story to be true.
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I am Boy Scout 2 formally Boy Scout on here. I had to re register as I've had computer problems and had misplaced my password and unable to log in. I was hoping that Nibbs is still on here as I have some news for her concerning Richard Fynney and her previous question. At the moment of course I'm unable to PM as a "New member"
Boy Scout 2
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I am Boy Scout 2 formally Boy Scout on here. I had to re register as I've had computer problems and had misplaced my password and unable to log in. I was hoping that Nibbs is still on here as I have some news for her concerning Richard Fynney and her previous question. At the moment of course I'm unable to PM as a "New member"
Boy Scout 2
please keep us updated with any new info!
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Fynney updates
For the information of Robert G Shaw.
Regarding Fynney updates I can’t help with any information regarding your Finney Ellastone connection.
The main “discovery” has been that there was a court case heard in Chancery 1844 Cook v Fynney documented in the National Archives and elsewhere; the brief details of which are as follows.
A Thomas Cook of Lane Ends Farm, Onecote, Staffordshire made a will in 1816 (he died that year) in which he left £300 to his second son Joseph to be paid after the death of Thomas’s wife Mary. There were 2 executors to this will; 1st being William Fynney the younger of Butterton a neighbour to the Cook family, the 2nd being Thomas Cook Junior son of Thomas Cook who died in 1816. Thomas the younger died in 1825 leaving William Fynney the sole executor.
Mary Cook died in 1936 but no money was forthcoming to Joseph Cook he therefore took his grievance to the Chancery courts.
In 1840 William Fynney the executor died; his 2 executors being his brothers Richard and Samuel Fynney thus making them responsible for the execution of Thomas Cook will of 1816.
In 1942 Richard Fynney died leaving Samuel Fynney sole executor to the Cook will of 1816. Due to the rules of Chancery a total of 18 people deemed to have “Conceivable Interest” were sued to appear before Chancery.
This matter dragged on through the courts until 1848 racking up costs of over £800 on a dispute over £300. Mr William Challinor a well known Leek solicitor wrote the case up in a pamphlet about the defects of the Chancery system in 1849, which he passed to Charles Dickens, no names were mentioned in this pamphlet.
Charles Dickens at that time was calling for the reform of the Chancery. What followed then was that the court case Cook v Fynney formed the basis of the case of 'Jarndyce v Jarndyce' in Dickens “Bleak House” which was published in instalments 1852-53. The Leek case appears little altered, as the case of 'Gridley' in Chapter 15.
A full detail can be found in:-
'Staffordshire Histories; Essays in honour of Michael Greenslade' Published.1999
The Fynney people concerned in this case we have traced back to Fielding Best Fynney’s line as described in Sleigh at the marriage of Mary Fynney to William Mountford. Mary being a daughter of William Fynney the Calligrapher and his wife Elizabeth Nee Machin (Sleigh page 176) and grandparents to Fielding Best Fynney 1743 - 1806.
Further message to follow re the Richard Fynney mentioned on this topic.
BoyScout2
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Richard Fynney 1779 – 1869
The Richard Fynney mentioned in this topic was born in 1779 at Leek he was the son of William Fynney II born 1742 of Callow, (known also by other similar spellings Cowlow etc.) Alstonefield Staffordshire and Elizabeth (Nee Stubbs) born 1746 at Hulme End, Butterton, Staffordshire.
Richard Fynney on the 8th June 1806 married Ann Jones of Flintshire born 1778; the wedding took place at Flint, Montgomeryshire. Richard died in 1869 aged 90 years, also at Flint.
Richard’s ancestry can also be traced back to William Mountford and Mary Fynney the daughter of William Fynney and Mary (Nee Machin) as mentioned in the reply I posted earlier regarding the Cook v Fynney court case.
In presenting these facts in both of these recent entries it seems only fair to say that it is not all my own work and I have heavily replied upon a lady known on this forum as Fynney Johnson and a man who is not a member of this forum, who obviously I can’t name but is a member of the Heath family of Derbyshire and Staffordshire and a prime mover in the recording of these facts and the Heath family on Tribal Pages.
BoyScout2