RootsChat.Com
England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Essex => Topic started by: edalmun on Monday 18 October 10 15:24 BST (UK)
-
My great x3 grandfather William Aldous lived in Colchester (born 1837) , and according to his son was an army corporal. When his son was born in Feb 1857 he is listed on the brith certificate as an baker journeyman, but I believe that at some time after this he joined up with the army. On the 1861 census his wife says she is a widow, but I can find no death certificate in Essex. If what she says is true he must have died sometime between 1856 and 1861. If he was part of the army it is quite possible that he was posted somewhere else in the country and this is where he died.
However to find this out I need to know which regiment he may have joined up with. Does anyone know what regiment a young man would have been able to join up with in Colchester at some point between 1857 and 1861? Also does the fact that he was a corporal suggest how long he might have been in the army?
Thank you!
-
Hi Most men from Colchester would have joined the Essex Regiment, my Grandfather did and he lived in Stanway.
Carol
-
Hi,
Thank you ever so much for that, I've just done a quick bit of research on the regiment and apparently in the years I'm looking for the regiment was made up of the 44th and the 56th regiments. Apparently they saw action in the Second Opium War in China, so if William was involved that may explain his disappearance.
Thanks again,
Elissa
-
hi from an old colchester boy !!
i,ve just had a look on f m p for the army pension records and nothing shows up same for ancestry , thats not to say he wasn,t in the army just not pensioned off , although as carol says most men would have joined the essex reg as it,s the local reg don,t get sidelined with that just in case he didn,t join them , my own dad started off in the essex but transferred after dunkirk ,so be careful , as you say he would have been in for a few years to make corporal will keep looking for his record
trevor
-
me again was william born in colchester or could it have been norfolk ?
trevor
-
Hi,
Yes he was born in Colchester, around 1837.
Elissa
-
I've just read through your message again and you say you couldn't find a pension record. If he died while he was in the army I presume he wouldn't have received a pension at all anyway. I've heard that quite a few regiments moved through Colchester Barracks so it's quite possible he joined up with somebody else.
Elissa
-
yes of course your right my fault for not concentrating on if he died while in service ,
just looking at the 1841census and there,s a william aldous in colchester aged 4 shown on his own initially until you go into the original book which then shows him with a thomas aged 13 -alexander 8- charles 6 all in the colchester union workhouse no parents with them had you seen this ?
trevor
-
Hi,
Yes I have thank you, he's still there in 1851 but his brother's have gone. He got married in June 1856 and apparently at that time he was an agricultural labourer, but by Feb 1857 when his son was born he was a baker (journeyman) apparently. I presume he must have joined up sometime after this, although he can't have been in the army for long as apparently his wife is a widow by 1861. I can't find any record of his death in Essex, and althou some William Aldous' died outside of Essex it is quite a popular name in that area so I have no way of knowing if it's him. If he was an army corporal and was involved in some campaign somewhere he could have been killed and never recorded here. That's all I can think of to explain his lack of death record.
Elissa
-
hi elissa
i,ve gone through all the permutations i can think of to find william army deaths - criminal records - ordinary deaths - in several different sites .
did he marry lydia barron or mary harding , also have you got the marriage cert for him or where did you find that marriage info , and the info for his son where does that come from , and where does his son say that his father was a corporal - marriage cert?? the reason i ask is to get a better picture of williams history .
trevor
-
Hi,
He married Lydia Barron, and I have the marriage certificate for that. His son Charles William Aldous was born in feb 1857. When Charles got married for the second time in 1931 he stated on his marriage certificate that his father was an army corporal. I have ordered a copy of his first marriage certificate which took place in Colchester in 1878 to see if he says the same thing on there.
William really is an enigma. There is the possibility that Lydia just made up that she was a widow, but she was living in a similar area and later got remarried - surely people would have known if she was making it up and William was actually still alive.
Thanks for your help!
-
hello elissa
do you know if william was born in colchester , or even essex only going through numerous records it seems as if the name aldous is more wide spread in suffolk
trevor
-
Hi Trevor,
I believe he was born just before bmd certificates started, in Colchester. I have found his older brothers being baptised in various parishes in Colchester although not William. it is possible he was baptised somewhere other than Colchester, but I think it more likely he just hasn't been recorded for some reason. He is always listed as being born in Colchester on the census.
The name Aldous is very qidespread in Suffolk, and Norfolk as well I think. This has made it hard as there are a few deaths recorded in Suffolk/Norfolk of a William Aldous during the years I think he died but as he isn't in county, and due to the lack of info on a death certificate I don't think I'll be able to identify him out of the numerous deaths. Unless Lydia is the informant I just wont know which is him.
Elissa
-
as you say it,s going to be a nightmare i,m afraid but if the other boys are bpt in col the law of averages would say william was also the other problem is that unless you get a cert you won,t know who the informaant is which could prove expensive if you get it wrong ,
i had a thought and looked up marriages for lydia aldous and got this it came up with isaac stonhold or william stuart wright date 1869 dist colchester qtr july -aug - sep v 4a p 405
then looked up the 1871 cen and this came up isaac stonhold 46 - lydia stonhold 33 - charles aldous 14 , there living in the st nicholas parish colchester
trevor
-
Lydia got married to Isaac Stonhold, so she must have been sure he was dead, if he'd just disappeared I doubt she would have known with enough certainty to get remarried.
It is a real nightmare!
Elissa
-
hi elissa
did you look at the 1851 census only in that a william and charles aldous are living with there grandmother at 35 mersea rd , the grannies name was mary and she was born in CREDITON SUFFOLK and seeing as a lot of aldous names are from there i,m wondering if william was either living there having left lydia and the boys so that would mean his death record is in suffolk .
trevor
-
The Thomas and Charles Aldous living with Mary Aldous are William's brothers - I think. As his (William's) grandmother came from Suffolk it is possible that William left Essex and went to Suffolk because of family connections. There's just so many ifs and maybes, it's impossible to work out what happened.
I have tried looking into his brothers to see where they went but I can't find Thomas or Charles after the 1851 census, and I can't find Alexander at all apart from on the 1841 census. Why on earth would four brothers just disappear?
Thanks for your help,
Elissa
-
elissa
can i just put in a bit of info from my own family my mums father only ever said that he THOUGHT he had a brother in portsmouth but when i started doing my family tree it turns out that not only did he have a brother in portsmouth he also had 2 sisters and another brother , there parents died when they were quite young one sister was in service the other one and one of the boys were in the workhouse grandad and the other brother joined the army this was just before ww1 the sad part was they never ever saw each other again , i got in touch with a relative of 1 of the boys and apparently that brother hadn,t told his family that he had any siblings at all .
so as you say what causes people to deny other brothers and sisters to that degree all families have hiccups along the way but not to that extreme normally , will have a look tomorrow to see where this takes us so will say good night speak tomorrow
trevor
-
morning elissa
i ,ve found a death reg for
thomas aldous
dec1854
dist colchester
v 4a p 170
nothing for charles so far , on that marriage cert you have for william & lydia what are the names for there fathers & there occupations , i,m thinking that we may need to start looking further to see if there is a suffolk connection for all this, also on the 1851 cen lydia ,s living with sarah bareham born dedham , so there is a mistranscription on lydias name which one is correct barron or bareham again what is on the marriage cert
speak later
trevor
-
Hi Trevor,
Lydia's parents Sarah and Charles Barron (stonemason) have had there name mispelt so many times I've lost count! I believe Barron to be the correct name as it is the one I have found most often.
On the marriage certificate William's father is a Thomas Aldous who is a whitesmith. I think that this Thomas Aldous died in 1839 and left a will, so I've ordered a copy from the Essex Records office that I should get sometime next week. This might explain a bit more about the family. I presume that it was their father's death that caused the Aldous brothers to have to go into the workhouse. From the older brother's baptisms I have found that their mother was a Susanna, but I can find nothing more than that on her. She wasn't in the workhouse, so maybe she died as well.
I have contacted the graveyeard in Colchester where William would have been buried if he died in Colchester, but they have no record of him, so I'm pretty certain he didn't die there. If he had joined the army he could have ended up anywhere!
Elissa
-
afternoon elissa
just seen your question on the other posting for workhouse details i,ve put in a reply to it , but i would think william and his brother would have been in the workhouse within colchester itself which went on to become the st mary,s hospital in later life it,s gone now to make room for yet more houses in the town , a great shame as it was a good hos by all accounts
trevor
-
I presumed it was the one within Colchester as that seems to have been where they were living. I didn't know it been turned into a hospital and then knocked down.
Elissa
-
hi
there was more than one in colchester One was at st botolph,
one at st albrights stanway, and of course St marys also
Ronnie
-
Hi Ronnie,
I didn't know there was more than one- thanks for that info. I have the census return for 1841 that shows they are in St Botolphs.
Thanks again,
Elissa
-
hi ronnie
where was this workhouse in st botlphs only i can,t find any record of it
trevor
-
Hi
The main records seem to be of st botolphs but I believe these will all point to what eventually became St marys Hospital at the top of Balkerne Hill (no longer there I am afraid But a very large site and actually i always found it a nice building I spent time in hospital there not long before it closed I believe St albrights was also known as Union only that will come under Lexden Colchester
I have always been led to believe there was a small workhouse in on e of the back courts in St Botolphs street itself ,almost opposite the St Botolphs Church
and is now a butchers and was a slaughter house This is only hearsay I think if you have access to the census for st botolphs Street and searched the street it should show up......Hopefully Will see what I can find out locally in our library as you have got me thinking now
Ronnie
-
hi ronnie your obviously an old colchestrian as i am , your talking of allen,s the butchers then and behind that who knows what there was in the old days only what is now kwik fit there is an open space which gave access to allens and a car park for neeps garage as it was then , if you do go to library see if there any old maps , also i,ve just had a lok at the "workhouse site" and according to that in 1797 a survey was carried out and it states that each parish is responsible for it,s own poor this was until 1834 when the new poor law unions were set up and st marys took over as the sole workhouse for the town as you say allbrights being in lexden &winstree borough ( if ever a building was miss named this must be it ! ) i,ve never heard it called anything else but the spike !!.
thanks for your reply and hope to hear from you soon
trevor
-
Hi,
The info you've both got on the workhouses sounds very interesting. I'm particularly interested to hear about another workhouse in Lexden. Lydia Barron, who married William Aldous had a father Charles Barron, who died in 'Union Workhouse, Colchester', but lived in Lexden before he entered the workhouse. Which workhouse do you think this refers to?
Elissa
-
hi elissa
almost certain it would have been st allbrights , if you go to www.workhouses.org.uk and look at workhouse locations they have photos of both allbrights and st marys
trevor
-
i agree it would have been st albrights stanway Lexden was a very large area back then covering even Wormingford fordham and parts of Colchester
I have found St Peters records listed as Lexden
How very con fusing
Ronnie ::)
-
hi Trevor
Yes I have lived here all my life and seen many changes
There are lots of maps in the Study centre so I will look at them on Monday and come back to you
Cheers
Ronnie
-
Hi again
Just spotted this couple on a family tree in ancestry.... a bit tempting ....
William Aldous married Lydia Bareham April 1856 4a 321 in colchester
They called their first child Charles too ..lots of coincidences
Ronnie
-
Yes that's my William Aldous. Do you know who's tree it is on ancestry? I don't have a subscription, but I believe there is a George on there who seems to have the same relatives as me.
Elissa
-
Hi again
Yes the tree is in the name of "george and ann wood" of stockport cheshire
ronnie
-
sorry George and Joan Wood ::)
-
Hi Folks
Update on Workhouses
St Botolphs Workhouse from 1770-1830 consisted of 6 cottages in Moor Lane
which Trevor will know as Priory Street I catered for 17-27 in mates
St Giles 1770-1777 was a lareg warehouse in Stanwell Street
St james 3 Buildings near East Bridge East Street also made a request for a malthouse to be used but no proof of use. In 1826 they converted a pantry into a secure lock up for a deranged woman as it was deemed cheaper than sending them to Bethlehem london or loxton middx. as they would have had to contribute to their keep ...........Unbelievable isnt it
If you want any looked up let me know as they are all listed in this book at the library
Ronnie
-
afternoon ronnie
thats a great bit of info , the st botolphs w, house i wonder if the name change came about when the catholic ch was built along with the nunnery as it,s not that old relative to other ch,s ,and the one i,m more interested in of all is east street where i was born and bred very close to the bridge that has got me going wondering where it would have been , the malthouse mentioned must have been to do with marriages mill or the siege house part of it , it just goes to show you don,t know what,s around you or was around you , well done ronnie
trevor
-
Hi Trev
The malthouse had something to do with John Dunage that is who they would be renting it from
The Map he let me see was dated 1874 but he had no earlier maps which would have given details clearly He said it was too early
In the reference book it said Moor Lane formerly Priory street How wierd is that?.... unless it was changed back again later :-\
It made very interesting reading if anyone has an Elizabeth finch in their tree 1774 ish I found some interesting info of her possessions when she was taken into St Nicholas Workhouse
:)
Ronnie
-
Very interesting reading!
Was there a workhouse in St Nicholas as well? Did these other workhouses have different names as the only name I've ever seen is Colchester Union Workhouse, and if there were more than one called this it would have got quite confusing.
Does this book mention anything about the conditions in these particular workhouses? What if any provisions would have been made for children and schooling in the 1840's? Also did all of the workhouses have an infimary section. I ask as my relative Charles Barron ended up in the workhouse, but his family were still living in Maidenburgh Street. I presume he can't have been there because he was so poor, as his family would have gone with him, so I presume he went there because he was ill. I know he died at the Union Workhouse, Colchester (whichever that is!) from paralysis certified.
Thank you for all your help,
Elissa
-
hi elissa
the union workhouses came into being in 1834 although col didnt open theres till 1836 they did have infirmaries as this was the only chance they had for free medical help , why not look at www.workhouses.org.uk it does give a lot of info into daily life in them
trevor
-
Hello again
St nicholas Workhouse was in bucklebury lane (could be near the castle) though where that was I willl have to go to the library again Ha!
Try this linkwww.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx? which will take you to the entry I told you about earlier It will also give you lots of info on all the different workhouse..Makes good reading too
Hope this helps
Ronnie
-
Hi
Just to add to the number of workhouses in Colchester 2 of my relations were in the Colchester Union workhouse in 1911 the address given on the census was North Station Colchester with the help of t mo we have worked out this was in fact the old Essex Hall which was opposite to the entrance to the station and was used for duel purpose as the workhouse and The Royal Eastern Counties Institution
and as the census states for idiots imbiciles and the feeble minded
-
You are right there Boxted boy and a very forbidding place it looked too Really grim from the outside although I believe it was originally built as a Hotel to serve the nearby north station ???
ronnie
-
hi ronnie
in answer to your earlier post re john dunage and name change of priory st , there was an owner of east mill before marriage took it over , i,ve seen an old trade directory online but can,t find it now so still feel that that the malthouse mentioned was there , as to moor lane there is what is now a foot path going all the way through to the hythe part of which we always called the moors now as all the houses in priory st cant be more than 150 yrs old i wonder if back then thats why it was called moor lane until they built the houses and made it in to a through rd the name priory st would have come about because of the old priory at the queen st end , it,s fascinating stuff you,ve found and if you could find more i for one would be very interested , also about the st nicholas w,house i suppose that could have been in culver st somewhere as its just to the rear of where st nicholas ch used to be , do you remember that before they pulled it down around 1959 i believe but could have been a year or two earlier
trevor
-
hi trev
Yes as you say it gets more interesting by th e minute
I was searching for Bucklersbury Lane yesterday... still havent got there but have a few pointers but From what I read John Taylor (father of Jane Taylor the writer of Twinkle twinkle little star and many others) came to Colchester originally to take charge of the meeting house in Bucklersbury Lane Which gives me some help I should be able to find it easy now I am thinking it could be somewhere near where they lived as there is a quaker burial ground at the end of castle road Just an idea...... will go today
Back to Moors lane Yes I know the passage way you mean If you havent been back here for a while you wont know that there is a new housing development built there stretching from Roseberry avenue to the back of the Priory
Ronnie
:)
-
whato ronnie
isn,t the quacker meeting house up by jumbo in church st , and the quacker burial ground is down the bot of roman road against the roman wall , another bit of trivia did you know that the area of roman and castle road was originally the colchester botanical gardens , also jane taylor lived in the dutch qtr somewhere may be either east or west stockwell st ??, yes i was aware of the houses in roseberry ave and all over nicholls nursery yet another bit of open space within the town gone for a burton .
trevor
-
Hi Trevor
You are thinking of the Friends meeting house in just behind St mary at the walls church
Apparently the" friends" had loads of meeting houses (one in each parish I believe The one we were looking for in Bucklersby lane was in fact in the road where Andromeda was The notes say they also had 6 almshouses which they used to relieve the poor of the parish There are almshouse there now which are obviuosly replacements of previous dwellings
The house where Jane taylor lived is up for sale at the moment and people are saying it should be bought by the town as a museum for people to visit!! Look what a pandoras box we have opened here I hope many people are enjoying this knowledge :)
Ronnie
-
hi ronnie
thats the house they still use that one don,t they in fact it,s probably the only one now
blimey we are going back now to our youth the andromeda that was the club de dance before that owned by geoff lewis as to jane taylor if the council run true to form there,s no way they,l buy it look at jumbo they should have bought that and saved it for the towns use no they,d rather see things rot or stop someone else from making use of our heritage for the towns good , sorry i,m just getting off me high horse now , as you say a pandoras box of history unknown to many . i,m going to ask you a favour but only if your in the library next can you ask if they have all the parish registers online there as well as the ones on seax and if they can be viewed from there as well or does it mean a trip to chelmsford record office ;)
cheers ronnie
trevor
-
Hi Trev
The records at the library are all the records transferred when the Colchester Records office closed a couple of years back So they have all the essex parish records on fiche which includes west ham east ham silvertown etc which all came under essex at that time You can always find the fiche numbers you want to look at from the seax site before you come to save time but the listings are all handy too
They do have access to Ancestry on line which is free too but not the parish records . you would need to look at the fiches
They have census on film and all local newspapers on film
printers are available and some people take photos of the documents they find
I go in most weeks so if anyone wants me to look something up i can no probs
Yes I remember going to the Club de dance.i loved it there :D
Ronnie
-
hi ronnie
thanks for that info doubt i,ll get there before xmas to much to do at home local papers can you find out how far back they go next time your there it helps they,ve got the fiche records there saves a trip to chelmsford
all the best
trevor
ps your showing your age admitting to going to the club de dance i only knew of it ;D ;)
trevor
-
:D :D :D
-
Just to add that the Essex Standard is searchable ( 1833 - 1900 ) online at the Essex County Library site. All you need is a library card number.
Cobbs.
-
terrific thanks very much
ronnie