RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: ashleighn19 on Friday 29 October 10 04:12 BST (UK)
-
Hi All...
I have a rather complicated problem as the family I am trying to find spans across 4 states, so I will try and explain as much as I can without being confusing.
My Grandmother's Grandmother was Clara Bowden. She was born in Sydney in 1867 to parents Samuel S Bowden and Annie Bowden (all found from NSW BDM registry). She then pops up in Victoria in 1892 when she was married. She also had children in Victoria before moving to South Australia where she died.
I am having real trouble finding what became of her parents. I believe they arrived in Austalia from England via the 'ROCKHAMPTON' which arrived in Keppel Bay (QLD) in 1863. From the passenger records I have approximated that Samuel was born in 1829 and Annie in 1841. From these records I have found that they had a son, but he died on the voyage.
I have tried looking for other children born to the couple in NSW with no result, and the same in Victoria. I cannot find either in the Victorian BDM lists and when I look up the NSW ones I get results, but the only Annie died in Tumut while all the Samuels seem to perish in the Tamworth/Gunnedah area.
Any help I could get in locating Samuel and Annie would be muchly appreciated. They remain a total mystery to me and I'd love to find out some more about them.
Thankyou!
Ashleigh
-
Hi
This looks like a sister for CLARA
REG 987 IN 1865 BOWDEN, MARIA father SAMUEL S mother ANN at SYDNEY
Sue
-
1892, reg no 997.Victoria
Clara BOWDEN, born Sydney married Jno Alxr WILLIAMS, born Vaughn,
Do you have this certificate? You can downoad it for about $17.50. It may have some clues about Samuel and Annie.
There are a number of records of Samuel S BOWDEN as a seaman travelling Auckland- Sydney around the mid 1850s. All show a birth date of abt 1829, one record states hs origin as Somerset. Do you think this could be your chap?
Samuel Bowden, 26, b abt 1829 , listed as AB
From Auckland to Sydney, New South Wales, arriving 20 Aug 1855 on the Yarrow
Origin Location: Somerset
Samuel Bowden, 27, b abt 1829,
From Melbourne to Sydney, arriving 18 Jan 1856, on the Eagle
Origin Location: British
Samuel S Bowden, 25, b abt 1829
From Auckland to Sydney, arr 6 Sep 1854 on the Moa - this vessel with him on board also arrives from Auckland 13 Nov 1854, also from Auckland 19 June 1854
Origin Location: British
Samuel S Bowden, 26 b abt 1829
From Adelaide to Sydney arr 11 May 1855 on the Jannet
Origin Location: British
This could be an arrival from England - unfortunately I can't tell if he was crew or not but the ship sounds the same as the Jannet although his second name is not correct and date is a bit out.
Samuel James Bowden, 21 b abt 1833
From London to Melbourne arr 16 Jan 1854 on the Jeannette
Nationality: British
Judith
-
I wonder if this is an infant death to the couple in QLD
In 1863(REG/M58) Annie Bowden. Father Samuel Bowden Mother Annie - aged 10 months.
Sue
-
This appears to be another child's death in NSW
REG. 594 In 1865 BOWEDEN (sic) ANNIE
father SAMUEL S.
mother ANNIE
at SYDNEY.
Sue
-
Do you think this is possibly their marriage in ENG.?
Marriage Dec 1/4 1858
Bowden, Samuel Simpson Bristol vol 6a pg 174
Reece, Ann.
Sue
-
About the son who died on the voyage - do you have a name for him?. It might appear again for a later son born to them.
What names does Clara give her children - anything less usual?
-
okay.. i just went and bought the image of the marriage and I have found out some stuff, but need some extra help in deciphering some of the info
Judb - I think you were right about Samuel having something to do with shipping... it states he was a Sea Captain on the certificate... however I think on the certificate it says David... have a look at the pic and let me know what you think.
Also, can anyone make out what it says in the second box... what does M. ?, mean? Maiden name?
2 more questions to come out of it... in the last box the bottom line is "sea captian", what is the top? and where it says Denliliquin what are the letters and what do they mean?
Thanks!
-
Well found, Sue I think that marriage would fit nicely being in Bristol as well.
I couldn't see them on the 1861 census but who knows where he might have been!
Judith
-
WOW! I can't believe how quick you found all of this!
wivenhoe - I believe his name was Samuel and the names of all Clara's children are as follows:
Arthur
John Alexander Bowman
Claris May
Roy Graham
Doris Agnes
-
What you have shown is the parents' names?
Top line is the groom's information:
Echuca John Goodenough and Agnes Will??? MN (stands for maiden name) Bowman Gentleman
Bride's info
Deniliquin NSW David and Annie Bowden MN Reece Sea captain
So looks as though the marriage Sue found is correct.
Hmm, it is a bit odd that Clara's father's name is given as David. Shows also that her husband was born in Echuca
Judith
-
Agnes Williams Ithink :D
Sue
-
Oh Sue - of course - I think my brain is full :-\ :-[
Where was this marriage?
Judith
-
Judith, what does it mean when it names the Groom's father as a 'gentleman'? does this mean he was higher up in society?
Also on the grooms side of the family, why would John's father have a different last name? I know Agnes (his mother) was married to a John Williams... does this mean he was illegitimate?
-
I have deleted this post which contained Incorrect information.
Sue
-
sparret - what does that mean?
also, on a side note where would I go to find details of Annie's birth?
-
Sorry,
I merely meant that I had posted something which was meaningless and silly and so I "wiped it"
I will amend the post again so as to be less confusing. :D
Apologies.
Sue
-
To answer your question if I can.
Annie was born in UK and the most usual starting point for BDM there is
http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Indexing starts at SEPT 1837.
However, there will be many ANN REECE's in the right timeframe and difficult to know which may be yours.
Sue
-
I think this might be Samuel and family in 1841
Having checked 1851 he is 22 and midshipman RN.
Living Alverstoke, Hampshire
John Bowden 49
Elizabeth Bowden 30
Elizabeth Bowden 19
John Day Bowden 16
Samuel S Bowden 12
Richard Bowden 10
Alfred Bowden 9
Harry Bowden 4
1851 shows Samuel as born Bridgewater, Somerset
Annie
-
This marriage in DENNILIQUIN NSW may be for the possible sister I found earlier Reply #1.
REG 6061IN 1888
RYAN, DENNIS
To BOWDEN MARIA
At DENILIQUIN
Sue
-
Yes, it does seem to be ;D
Here is her death too
REG.9332
In 1893
RYAN, MARIA
Father UNKNOWN BOWDEN
mother ANNIE
At MOAMA
Sue
-
I wonder if this is an infant death to the couple in QLD
In 1863(REG/M58) Annie Bowden. Father Samuel Bowden Mother Annie - aged 10 months.
Sue
That is a marine death entry so must be the child that died on the voyage.
Annie
-
but in the passenger list it names a samuel with no age...
-
Does the passenger list record the deaths on board?
-
I noted that gap without age and with the name Samuel BOWDEN on the immigration index.
Perhaps it means infant with Samuel BOWDEN
ANNIE JNR. is not listed as arriving with the couple.
Sue
-
passenger list is here
http://www.cqhistory.com/wiki/pmwiki.php/Events/Ship-TheRockhampton
samuel is listed with no date...
-
Hi
What I am trying to say is that the child who died onboard is ANNIE.
The death, as is the custom was registered at the next port of call which in this case was their destination.
The fact the name SAMUEL is seen means, I think, the child was in the care and custody and guardianship of SAMUEL and is unnamed as a passenger.
Happy to be contradicted on this one, but the death of ANNIE is clearly MARINE.
Sue
-
I agree with Sue ;D
-
Judith, what does it mean when it names the Groom's father as a 'gentleman'? does this mean he was higher up in society?
Also on the grooms side of the family, why would John's father have a different last name? I know Agnes (his mother) was married to a John Williams... does this mean he was illegitimate?
"Gentleman" usually means he doesn't have to work and is living on private means - perhaps he has shares or inherited money, or is retired. Obviously he would see himself as a step higher than a person who has to work!
I think the "Goodenough" is his second name so his full name is John Goodenough WILLIAMS. You often find second names of ancestors are from surnames of their parents/grandparents or close friends etc. For example one of my ancestors is John Midlane DYER - Midlane was his mother's maiden name. It can be handy at times when trying to identify ancestors
-
This looks as though it could be the parent WILLIAMS marriage:
Agnes Bowman = John Williams
1863 Victoria, registration number 638
Judith
-
Sorry to go back over stuff, but does anyone know where I could find where this daughter was born?
This appears to be another child's death in NSW
REG. 594 In 1865 BOWEDEN (sic) ANNIE
father SAMUEL S.
mother ANNIE
at SYDNEY.
Sue
-
I am not able to see a recorded birth for the child in QLD or NSW.
https://www.bdm.qld.gov.au/IndexSearch/BirIndexQry.m
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/Index/IndexingOrder.cgi/search?event=births
They are the only states I have looked at,
A copy of the certificate of death would show all you want to learn.
Sue
-
The baby who died on board ship is a bit hard to find. The child was listed as 10 months old on the death index shown on the Qld BMD but we don't know the exact date of death. The ship left England in June and ariived in Queensland in October 1863 so it is possible that the child was born between September 1862 and January 1863. It would seem probable that the child was born in England.
Free BMD has lots of BOWDEN births in that time; you would need information from the certificate to find the child.
Judith
-
The exact date of registration of the death of infant ANNIE was 15th OCTOBER 1863.
Same month as the ship's arrival.
The death was recorded in both QLD and NSW
Sue
-
It may be a possibility to look for the couple, ANN and SAM on census 1861. They were married in Bristol in 1858, perhaps they were enumerated there too.
If they were located may give some hints about previous children as I think it is a bit unusual to be married 4 or 5 years and no offspring.
I am not at all good at census lookups.
Sue
-
However we don't know what the death date was ??? Where else did this ship call? The child could have been born anywhere I suppose, especially if he was a seaman. As you say, there is quite a gap (for the time) between the marriage (1858) and the birth of this child (1862/3) so I wonder if there were earlier child/ren?
Sue, I couldn't find them when I looked before but will try just for Annie - perhaps he was at sea ::)
QLD Immigration has this info - at least we have a birth year for Annie now - 1841/2, Samuel 1829/30
BOWDEN Annie 22 Rockhampton 13 Oct 1863 IMM/112 169 Z1957 M1696
BOWDEN Samuel 34 Rockhampton 13 Oct 1863
BOWDEN Samuel Rockhampton 13 Oct 1863
I know there was a comment about this before but it is just possible that the second Samuel may be a child.
Judith
-
Hi Judith
know there was a comment about this before but it is just possible that the second Samuel may be a child.JUDITH
Then 2 children would be noted on the passenger list wouldn't they?.
Reply#26 My thoughts :D
Sue
-
another question about something I cannot read...
this is from the 1841 census, can anyone tell me what John's occupation is?
thanks!
-
Navy HP
Don't know what HP (if that is what the letters are!) stand for.
Sue
-
Hey Sue,
I just did a google search and the HP means half pay.
Thanks though!
-
does anyone have any ideas where to find Samuel and Annie's deaths? Like i said in my original post :
I have tried looking for other children born to the couple in NSW with no result, and the same in Victoria. I cannot find either in the Victorian BDM lists and when I look up the NSW ones I get results, but the only Annie died in Tumut while all the Samuels seem to perish in the Tamworth/Gunnedah area.
thanks!
-
If I can ask why does the marriage certificate have her father's name as DAVID not Samuel?
sorry if this has been asked and answered :(
thanks Jenn
-
Hi Jenn,
Not sure about that one.. we didn't really debate it too much... do you think perhaps im completely going up the wrong branch?
Ash
-
Hi Jenn,
I think the "wrong father name" was noted, but not fully explored.
My own conclusion was that Samuel was out of the picture by the time of the marriage. We do not even know that ANNIE was at the marriage of her daughter so she may not have been present to sort out the paternal name.
By the time of Maria's the sister's death in 1893 (see above), he is listed as unknown Bowden
I do not know the details for parents shown on the dc for Clara.
Sue
-
Where did you get the name Samuel from then, did you just assume it from immigration records to match or do you have other evidence?
Jenn
-
when i look up the birth on NSW BDM the father is listed as Samuel.
-
does anyone have any ideas where to find Samuel and Annie's deaths? Like i said in my original post :
I have tried looking for other children born to the couple in NSW with no result, and the same in Victoria. I cannot find either in the Victorian BDM lists and when I look up the NSW ones I get results, but the only Annie died in Tumut while all the Samuels seem to perish in the Tamworth/Gunnedah area.thanks! ASHLEIGH
The helpers have been working towards answering the questions in your original post for you and all understand what you have been hoping to find, I'm sure.
If the deaths had been immediately obvious, they would probably have been spotted by now.
A lot has been discovered for you including MARIA, the other daughter, and some details of other offspring.
The ancestoral trail can be a long and twisted one.
Sue
-
The possible directions you could take to find more information are...
Purchase a copy of the marriage certificate for SAMUEL SIMPSON BOWDEN & ANN REECE in Bristol Eng from
http://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/
This hopefully will give you Annie’s parents’ names, so a search in Australia for her death may be more possible.
Purchase the Birth Certificate for MARIA BOWMAN -Reply #1 this thread. As well as parental details, it will list other births to her parents before hers and perhaps help to clarify the parents’ movements through some definite dates.
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/howToTraceYouFamTree.htm#TranscriptionAgent
Sue
-
I am wondering if Samuel died and the Annie remarried could David be the stepfather's name.
I just wonder why she said his name was David on her marriage certificate.
After all she knew her mthers maiden name??
Jenn
-
Hi Jenn,
I guess it is possible, but what are the chances that she re-married someone with the same surname?
From what I've found Samuel didn't have a brother named David, so who knows. Maybe he took on a new name and thats why I cant find him? I looked him up in NSW, QLD and Vic but could not find anything that matched... maybe SA has something?
Sue: I've just ordered the birth cert for Clara Bowman who is my direct ancestor. since I believe her to be the last born it made more sense as it may have details of Maria's birth and the reverse would not be true.
I do appreciate all the help I am recieving, I just get a bit lost over what ground has already been covered.
Ash
-
From the information on Clara's marriage certificate did her place of birth and age line up with the birth found for Clara?
thanks Jenn
-
It almost does..
The marriage was on the 26th of March 1892 - According to the certificate she was born in Sydney NSW and was 23 at the time of her marriage. This would make her birth approx 1869..
The only Bowden (I Tried different spellings too) that is registered in Sydney under the name Clara is the one I have.. born in 1867. The dates are so close I'm sure that I have the right one...
Ash
-
It sure is getting complicated. Did you tell us where Clara's wedding took place? Thought there might be a mention on a local newspaper if it was in the country - especially as her husband's dather was a 'gentleman'.
Judith
-
Judith, they were married in Echuca.. I'm going to have a good look on Trove when I get home from work so let's hope I find something!
-
Trove doesn't seem to have anything from the Echuca area.
The newspaper there was (and is) the Riverine Herald... does anyone have access to a library... I can head to the NSW State Library on the weekend but not until then..
-
Hi Ash - may not get to the nLA this week or next but after that.......... (I'm doing a surprise party for my husband for the 13th so have to try and cook while he's not home ;D which curtails my other activities :( )
Judith
-
I've just been to the NSW State Library and looked up the Riverine Herald for the year that Clara and John were married but I cannot seem to find the marriage notice...
would it be unusual for them not to have placed a marrigae announcement in the local paper?
Ash
-
It seems to me that it depends on local custom whether BMD notices are put in the paper, and/or whether the paper carries an account of the proceedings.
From other searches I've done with the Riverine Herald it doesn't seem to have much social chit-chat. Some country papers are a mine of information with lots of detailed accounts of weddings and funerals, what people wore, presents, how may attended, what the mininster/priest said etc but the Riverine Herald appears to be above such frivolity! Such a pity for those of us on the hunt. ::)
Judith
-
would there be another paper in the area or just the one? it did have a few marriages but not very many :(
-
Hi,
This may be of interest to you concerning "The Rockhampton"
http://www.cqhistory.com/wiki/pmwiki.php/Events/Ship-TheRockhampton
regards
mariac
-
Ashleigh, the Riverine Herald seems to be the only one that I can see on the NLA catalogue. :( Judith
-
Mariac - Thanks very much for that, I had seen it before, but I appreciate your interest non the less.
Judith - not fair.. :( I had this hope in my head that there would be a detailled account, maybe even a photograph. :( very disapointed.
-
Hi all!
Just thought I'd add some info and a question to very long search...
I found while looking through TROVE an article about a ship that went down off the NSW Coast... according to that article, a Samuel Bowden was a mate on board the Gratia, which sank in bad weather in 1868. Given that on the marriage certificate it states Samuel (David) was a sea captain, and I cannot seem to find anything on the family, could this possibly be my missing relative?
Also, the ship went down in 1868, and Clara was born 1867 (still waiting for her birth certificate), perhaps when she was married she stated what her fathers name was, or what she believed it to be. Perhaps she just didn't know that much about him given he died when she was so young.
My question then is, is there any place to look up records of men aboard ships to see if i can work out if this was my Samuel?
Ash
-
Hi Ashleigh.
Hi Ashleigh,
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/search?adv=y
Using this link instead of the Trove link will allow a much more precise search for specific items at specific dates.
Put in the word GRATIA and limit the date to the year of the wreck 1868.
You may find extra detail in the items which come up.
Sue
-
Hey Sue,
I didn't find anything I didn't already know, although that they publicly recognized that the ship did sink.
Why can't I find a death record for Samuel then? Is it becuase the death was never confirmed?
Ash
-
This item would be the closest hint to confirmation of SAMUEL's death on the GRATIA.
http://newspapers.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/18731760?searchTerm=%22gratia%22+%2Bbowden
I don't know where to search deaths at sea. Perhaps others will.
Sue
-
This may be your Annie
Marriage Annie BOWDEN to John HALLIDAY 1879 VIC #4583
Death Annie HALLIDAY 1882 Deniliquin #10185
Parents William REECE and Eliza
Annie
-
1841 English Census
St Augustine, Bristol,Gloucestshire
William Reece 25
Eliza Reece 25
Frederick Reece 5
Mary Reece 2
Ann Reece 4 MO
Looks promising!
Annie
-
1851 Census
same address, spelt as REES
William Rees 36
Eliza Rees 36
Frederick Rees 15
Mary Rees 12
Ann Rees 10
Eliza Rees 9
Thomas Rees 7
S?? Rees 5
Caroline Rees 3
Christinia Rees 1
Annie
-
Children to John HALLIDAY and Ann/Annie REECE/REES
1872 William at Fitzroy #8264
1875 Agnes Vic #3755
1877 Edward at Echuca #2273
1879 Annie "" #8820
1881 John David at Deniliquin #21711
-
Hi Annie,
This looks good and I am sure Ashleigh will be most interested.
The given name DAVID in the youngest boy may be a hint to the stated parental names on Clara's marriage certificate (David and Annie ~Bowden~)
Wondering whether there was the use of the name David along the Halliday line which has become "casual"
Sue
-
Yes Sue
Good point about the David name.
Just found a Halliday tree, says there was an Elizabeth b NSW 1869???
There is a birth Elizabeth BOWDEN #1946 mother Ann ;D
So John Halliday might have been on the scene almost immediately ;)
Annie
-
Oh wow! you guys are amazing!
I'll have to get the marriage certificate image next week when i get paid..
Annie, where did you find a halliday tree??
Thanks so much for your help too!
Sue, what do you mean by the use of David becoming "casual"?
-
Ashleigh
There is a Reece tree and a separate Halliday tree on Ancestry.
Glad we have solved part of it for you ;D
-
Birth Reg NSW just may be of interest.
EDIT Struck through. Incorrect
It may be a second registration for the same birth.
Possibly a little "cover up" move in changing the maternal name for the registration. ;)
REG. 2065 In 1869 BOWDEN, ELIZABETH J. father SAMUEL mother ELIZABETH J at SYDNEY Sue
-
what kind of cover up? I'm sorry to be a bit blonde about this...
-
Sorry Ashleigh
By 'becoming casual' I meant sometimes a name which is in a family is used for someone even when it is not their name.
It is given as a kind of nickname or a nod to a deceased relative.
I have in my own family baptised Jessica, but always called Kate.
No real logic, but there was a grandmother Katherine.
Of course, I am only speculating :D
Sue
-
what kind of cover up? I'm sorry to be a bit blonde about this...
Well if Samuel died early 1868 he can't be the father of Elizabeth ;)
Soo I'm thinking John Halliday was probably the father.
-
But then why register it under Samuel? Why not just register her father as John Halliday?
What is the thing with changing the mother on the birth registration? Makes more sense to change the father does it not
-
Annie might have still been officially married to Samuel hence why she and John didn't marry until 1879, when someone goes missing like he did it might have been a few years before he was declared "dead".She might have thought it not quite right to name the baby Halliday.
-
Ok,
My speculations in regard to the double registration are probably unfounded
The couple named SAMUEL and ELIZABETH J . Bowden had several registered children ;D
I shall strike through.
Sue
-
LOL Sue
-
Okay,
So we're thinking that possibly John was on the scene very quickly... so would the family have been in NSW when they met? Do we have any idea what John's profession was, maybe I could search for him with a bit more certainty.
Ash
ps thanks again for all your help!
-
Hi
Looks really messy now, but if I delete the posting all together, it can be more confusing to a reader ::)
Sue
-
Marriage Annie BOWDEN to John HALLIDAY 1879 VIC #4583
One of the good things about this find is that the marriage (and its certificate) are in Victoria.
This means that if and when you are ready to purchase it, it will be a bit cheaper than some other states and downloadable to you immediately.
None of that excruciating waiting time ;)
Sue
-
okay.. i just got the image of the marriage, but im having trouble reading some parts... can someone give me a hand??
I cant make out thewhere and when married part or the condition of Annie... i know it doesn't say widow.
Thanks in advance!!
-
Looks like Widow , Sydney 1870 to me what are the column adjacent to that have 3 and 1 in them please
thanks Jenn
-
Hey Jen,
I was assuming that it said widow. widows needed to register when and where their former husbands died, and i beleive her former husband Samuel died then..
the numbers are children.. 3 living and 1 deceaced.
Ash
-
Hi Ash,
It is good to see the helpers have found the right marriage and a thrill when the ceretificate matches your guesses :D
Date looks like 30th December
Place looks like St Johns Manse followed by illegible Street and next line ........Sth.
I wonder if you would take the time to type up all that is on the certificate for our interest. (All that you can read anyway).
Sometimes tiny things lead to more information being found.
Sue
-
I'll try... the part at the end is illegible so i'll have to put a pic of that part up..
No of Register: 29
Where and when married: 30th December 1879, St Johns Manse (where is that??) with illegible others ***see pic above***
Names: John Halliday & Annie Bowden
Conditions: Bachelor & Widow Sydney 1870, 3 living children, 1 deceaced
Birthplace: ?? Scotland & Bristol, England
Profession: Labourer & Dressmaker
Age: 38 & 38
i cant read the rest... have a look and tell me what you think.
-
Hi
JOHN's line is the top one
Present address Echuca.
Usual Address Melbourne
Father David Halliday
Mother Elizabeth Halliday (Mitchell)
Fathers occ ......... er
ANNIE's is the second line
Present Address South ..........
Usual address Echuca
Father Mar ....... (DOES Not look like WILLIAM!) Reece
Mother Eliza Reece (Phillips
Father's Occ Foundry Labourer.
Others may do better :D
Sue
-
Hey Sue,
Looking at Annie's fathers name, i think it does look like William... remembering that the quality of the copy is pretty terrible...
Its a shame we cant make out where she lived...
-
I think maybe SANDHURST ???
Sue
-
i find it interesting that they waited 9 years to get married if we think he was on the scene so quickly... and also that thier present and usual residences are so similar... with both mentioning Echuca and Melbourne (if indeed hers is Sandhurst)... hmmms...
-
I thinl it is William taking into account the way the W is written on Widow very similiar
also agree it is Sandhurst
She probably had to wait the seven years odd to marry to have Samuel Bowden declared dead in my opinion, but that would of course not restricted her in any way to having a defacto relationship and more children
Jenn
-
hmmm... i guess so... interesting that she put 1870 when the ship went down 1868... very interesting woman I think this Annie
-
Hi All,
I think Jenn could be right about the time lapse and the declaration of Samuel being deceased.
IF....... ::)
I really hate to be pedantic, but we have no real evidence that SAMUEL did meet his end in the wreck. Circumstances are strongly in favour, but we must always be conservative when there is no certified record.
At the risk of sounding preachy, there are an increasing number of "trees" out there on the Net which are put up as "Fact", but actually are largely guesswork.
I have seen on one Tree published about my own family by someone I don't know, a person has been entirely invented to fill a gap.
Anyway, the certificates you have here Ash, are excellent support for your growing Tree.
Sue
-
would there be any way to prove that the Samuel on board was my Samuel? Surely there would've been something somewhere that had next of kin or family details...
-
Can't see anything for Samuel on NSW archives :(
-
does anyone have any idea where I would start to find anything to do with the ship? Would they have needed to keep employment records? I can't even seem to find where the ship was sailing from and to and what they were carrying.
this is what i found in the encyclopedia of australian shipwrecks:
GRATIA: W 2m Brig 175t ON31791. 89.0 x 21.6 x 13.9. B. 1839 Reneuse, Newfoundland. Owners (as at Aug 1866) John Broomfield and Reg Whittaker. Reg Sydney.
Foundered in a heavy gale with the loss of all hands (7) off Cape Hawke NSW Feb 15 1868. **the wreck has never been found**
Capt: Charles Riley
Mate: Samuel Bowden
Seamen: Wm Thompson
Hy Williams
Peter Allen
Norman Jochin
Cook: Hugh McDonald
[SMH Feb 27 + 29 1868] Syd reg 16/1862
-
I think the place of marriage is
St John's xxxxx
xxxxxxxx street
Sandhurst
Google finds St John's Presbytrian church in Bendigo (Sandhurst), cnr Forest and Mackenzie Sts. However a history site gives the original address as Myers St which looks a possible for the address in the certificate. The minister's house of a Presbyterian church is called a Manse so that fits although the handwriting is awful. ::)
http://www.bendigofamilyhistory.com/freeindexsearch.htm
Judith
-
Hi!
I'm just bumping this up in case anyone has any idea of how I could find shipping records for 1868 in NSW... surely there must be some way of proving that this Samuel is or is not my ancestor.
Any ideas/suggestions are greatly appreciated.
Ash
-
Okay... So I got my transcription of Clara's birth today (hooray!) and although it doens't really shed any extra light on my search, there was an interesting anomoly that I thought I would share for discussion
In the previous issue, it states that Annie has had 3 children to 1867.. 1 living (female) and 2 deceased (1 male and 1 female). Obviously the living child is Maria (b. 1865 in Sydney), but now I'm re-confused about the death on board the 'Rockhampton'. We have a death for the couple in QLD which is marine for Annie, aged 10 months, but I cannot find a birth for an Annie in England - presumadly since the journey only took 4 months the child must've been born there. I do, however, have a birth for a Samuel Benjamin Bowden born March 1862 in Bristol which would fit with the Samuel listed on the ship.
Anyone have any ideas on how I can work any of this out?
Also, Samuel's middle name was confirmed as 'Simpson' on the birth transcription of Clara, meaning the marriage we found in Bristol is correct!
Thanks everyone for your help and opinions, it is so interesting to hear everyone's point of view.
Ash