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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: Eleesavet on Saturday 30 October 10 11:17 BST (UK)
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If you have MIs for Fowlis Wester, would you mind looking up Marshall families:
William Marshall dod 1857 and his wife Emily (Amelia) Murray dod 1856;
John Marshall dod 1894 and his wife Nicholas Young dod (?);
Ann Roy (nee Marshall) dod 1874;
Dr William Marshall dod 1884.
I know for certain that William and Emily were burried in Fowlis Wester, as was Dr Marshall.
I would love to know what inscription(s) say and if they can lead to other family connections.
Thanks a lot.
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Scots Roots produce a CD with the Fowlis Wester MIs and pictures of the stones. Of the people you mention, the only one I could see was the doctor: according to the transcription he was born 26 Aug 1834 at Meckehin and died 22 Dec 1884 at Crieff. He was a physician to Queen Victoria, and the stone was erected by his father John, of Crieff.
Arthur
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Thank you for information. It is appreciated.
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Re: Marshall family of Fowlis Wester area. Dr. Wm Marshall, buried in the Fowlis Wester cemetery, was a first cousin to my maternal grandmother. His mother, Nicholas (Young) Marshall died 1 Aug 1892. I do not know of the Wm Marshall and Emily (Amelia) - can you tell me where they fit in?
I have other famiy information that I am willing to share.
Dorothy, in Canada
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Hi All
I have just looked up the MI book for Fowlis Wester (The revised 2000 by Alison Mitchell) and
there is no Marshall memorials in the book. The MIs in this book are all pre 1855 unless they relate to earlier stones
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi All
I have just looked up the MI book for Fowlis Wester (The revised 2000 by Alison Mitchell) and
there is no Marshall memorials in the book. The MIs in this book are all pre 1855 unless they relate to earlier stones
Yours Aye
BruceL
Hi BruceL
With respect, the MI (meaning monumental inscription?) book that you have for Fowlis Wester may be incomplete. I have visited this cemetery, and as noted by one other contributor, there IS a headstone for Dr. William Marshall - I photographed it. There is a lengthy inscription on it which includes something like: Wm was "a faithful and loyal servant of the Queen from 1871-1881".
As one enters the Fowlis Wester Churchyard, Dr. Wm Marshall's headstone is a short distance in, on the left side of the path, and fairly close to the path. I suspect is is of granite, and was in excellent condition when I last visited it in 2009.
Happy hunting.
Dorothy in Canada
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Hi All
I have just looked up the MI book for Fowlis Wester (The revised 2000 by Alison Mitchell) and
there is no Marshall memorials in the book. The MIs in this book are all pre 1855 unless they relate to earlier stones
Yours Aye
BruceL
Hi BruceL
With respect, the MI (meaning monumental inscription?) book that you have for Fowlis Wester may be incomplete. I have visited this cemetery, and as noted by one other contributor, there IS a headstone for Dr. William Marshall - I photographed it. There is a lengthy inscription on it which includes something like: Wm was "a faithful and loyal servant of the Queen from 1871-1881".
As one enters the Fowlis Wester Churchyard, Dr. Wm Marshall's headstone is a short distance in, on the left side of the path, and fairly close to the path. I suspect is is of granite, and was in excellent condition when I last visited it in 2009.
Happy hunting.
Dorothy in Canada
Ahh, sorry, BruceL, I should read more carefully!! I just realized your book contains records PRE 1855! That's why the Marshall MI isn't there!!
Does your book have MIs for James Young and either of his wives (Betty Miller or Mary McVicar)? Betty d. pre-1817 (her last child was born 1815), & James re-married, to Mary 1817. The last census in which James and Mary reliably appear is 1841.
James & Betty Young were the maternal grandparents of Wm Marshall.
Dorothy in Canada
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Thank you both, Dorothy and Bruce, for posting.
Dorothy I received your personal message and have responded. You are correct in saying that Wm. and Emily (Amelia) are Dr. Marshall's paternal grandparents.
Bruce thank you for looking up the MI transcriptions. As Dorothy realised Dr. Marshall's is post 1855.
I visited the Fowlis Wester churchyard in October and saw the gravestone for Dr. Marshall. Unfortunately, it was raining and the ground was sodden so I didn't spend long there. A very beautiful setting though.
Regards.
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Hi Dorothy
I have had a look in the book I have for the names you mentioned and could find nothing I am afraid
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Dorothy
I have had a look in the book I have for the names you mentioned and could find nothing I am afraid
Yours Aye
BruceL
Many thanks for looking, BruceL. James, Betty & Mary are remain extremely elusive!
Dorothy in Canada
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Hi Dorothy
In the MIs for Methven
by Jas Young carrier , w Eliz MILLER 4.7.1816 35
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Dorothy
In the MIs for Methven
by Jas Young carrier , w Eliz MILLER 4.7.1816 35
Yours Aye
BruceL
BruceL, that is totally brilliant, and exciting! Thank you very much both for the information, and the search.
James was my g-g-grandfather. Two of his sons: James Junior & Archibald are interred in the Methven churchyard, but I could find no stone for James Senior or either of his wives when I visited the area.
The stone next to James Jr and Arch had toppled onto its face, and I wondered if it might belong to another family member. Does your book pinpoint the location in the cemetery?
I need a bit of translation for the information you posted: does '35' refer to the age of Elizabeth?
Do you know what 'by James Young carrier' means?
Dorothy in Canada
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Hi Dorothy
The 35 is the age of the deceased
In the index stones 26,27,and 28 are linked together making it look as though there is a family connection the names you mention below are listed I will sort them and post later I am at work at the moment.
on the map in the book the grave is marked on the far side from the gate in front of a house
Yours Aye
BruceL
ADDED: 27 (near 26) Jas YOUNG fr d Pitbaughlie DUNFERMLINE 28.6.1896 78, w Jessie GIBSON 16.12.1899 by daughter.
28 Archd YOUNG mert 1.9.1903 83, w Eliz LAWSON 17.1.1922 88
das: ISABELLA 8.3.1869 6y, Johanna 22.10.1891 20, Eliz 19.9.1915
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A huge thank you, Bruce.
James Young and his first wife, Elizabeth Miller, are my 4 x grandparents. It's always exciting to get further details.
Regards.
Liz
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Hi Liz
Your welcome just paying back some of the help I have had over the years from others on RC
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Dorothy
The 35 is the age of the deceased
In the index stones 26,27,and 28 are linked together making it look as though there is a family connection the names you mention below are listed I will sort them and post later I am at work at the moment.
on the map in the book the grave is marked on the far side from the gate in front of a house
Yours Aye
BruceL
ADDED: 27 (near 26) Jas YOUNG fr d Pitbaughlie DUNFERMLINE 28.6.1896 78, w Jessie GIBSON 16.12.1899 by daughter.
28 Archd YOUNG mert 1.9.1903 83, w Eliz LAWSON 17.1.1922 88
das: ISABELLA 8.3.1869 6y, Johanna 22.10.1891 20, Eliz 19.9.1915
Thank you yet again, BruceL! I have the descendants of James Young Jr tracked, and think they are accurately in 'The Tree'. One mystery remains for James Jr: who was the mother of his illegitimate son, Peter? That will likely remain a mystery. Only one of the children borne to his marriage survived to adulthood - his daughter, Isabella (Young) McKerchar - and she erected the headstone.
Archibald Young was my maternal great-grandfather, so I have his descendants well wrapped.
James Sr, the father of the 2 mentioned above (among many others), has been difficult to pin down, so having a break through with wife #1 is amazingly good news. James Sr & Mary (McVicar) Young died between 1841-1851, but they could in the same burial site as wife #1 - Eliz (Miller).
How would one would go about getting a headstone restored back in position? James, Betty & Mary may all be hiding on the face of it!
Final note: did you have any thoughts about what 'by James Young, carrier' might mean? I'm guessing that 'by' might mean the headstone was erected by James?? 'carrier' - his occupation?? In all records, he seems to have been a farmer, mainly at Needburn or Burnbrae Farms in the Methven area.
Where did you find the wonderful reference book that you are using?
Gratefully,
Dorothy in Canada
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Hi Dorothy
Carrier was his occupation (modern version Lorry Driver) moving goods by horse and cart or wagon.
It could be that he had a carriers business.
The book I have is southern Perthshire published by the Scottish genealogical society in Edinburgh
http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/Downloads.aspx
As for getting a headstone restored and put back into position I think you would need to speak to a
local stone mason perhaps someone who knows will come along and answer your question.
I would also look at the free search on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for any wills that may have been made.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Dorothy
Carrier was his occupation (modern version Lorry Driver) moving goods by horse and cart or wagon.
It could be that he had a carriers business.
The book I have is southern Perthshire published by the Scottish genealogical society in Edinburgh
http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/Downloads.aspx
As for getting a headstone restored and put back into position I think you would need to speak to a
local stone mason perhaps someone who knows will come along and answer your question.
I would also look at the free search on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for any wills that may have been made.
Yours Aye
BruceL
Thank you, BruceL. I will check out your suggestions.
Dorothy in Canada
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Hi Dorothy
Carrier was his occupation (modern version Lorry Driver) moving goods by horse and cart or wagon.
It could be that he had a carriers business.
The book I have is southern Perthshire published by the Scottish genealogical society in Edinburgh
http://www.scotsgenealogy.com/Downloads.aspx
As for getting a headstone restored and put back into position I think you would need to speak to a
local stone mason perhaps someone who knows will come along and answer your question.
I would also look at the free search on www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk for any wills that may have been made.
Yours Aye
BruceL
Hello Bruce
I'm back on the topic of James Young. You mentioned that the MI book you have shows the grave of James close to that of his son's wife: Eliz Miller (Stone 27).
Is there a map of the cemetery in the MI book? If so, would it be possible for you to scan that page and send it to me? I downloaded the 'Black Book', but am having difficulty understanding how it works and didn't see any maps.
I'm investigating the feasibility of having a monumental mason raise the fallen stone and re-fix it to its base, but I want to be sure that I have the correct headstone before I set things in motion.
I have been reading your posts, and am very impressed by the breadth of your genealogical knowledge. You come up with such interesting websites to check out!
Thank you for all your help.
Dorothy
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Hi Dorothy
Perth Council will have a map of the cemetery.
CommunityGreenspace@pkc.gov.uk
I will check book when I get home tonight
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Dorothy
I have sent you an email
Yours Aye
BruceL
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THE LATE DOCTOR WILLIAM MARSHALL - The body of Dr William Marshall, formerly physician to the Queen, was buried yesterday in the churchyard of Fowlis, a few miles from Crieff. Only the relatives and intimate friends of the deceased were invited to be present. Dr Profeit, the Queen's Commissioner at Balmoral, attended by command of the Queen on behalf of Her Majesty. Wreaths of immortelles sent by the Queen and the Princess Beatrice were laid on the coffin and in the grave.
(Evening Telegraph, 27 Dec 1884)
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Hi Dorothy
I have sent you an email
Yours Aye
BruceL
Received, and your help is very much appreciated!
Dorothy
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THE LATE DOCTOR WILLIAM MARSHALL - The body of Dr William Marshall, formerly physician to the Queen, was buried yesterday in the churchyard of Fowlis, a few miles from Crieff. Only the relatives and intimate friends of the deceased were invited to be present. Dr Profeit, the Queen's Commissioner at Balmoral, attended by command of the Queen on behalf of Her Majesty. Wreaths of immortelles sent by the Queen and the Princess Beatrice were laid on the coffin and in the grave.
(Evening Telegraph, 27 Dec 1884)
Thank you for posting this information. I have found a few newspaper articles/notices re Dr Marshall but never this one.
Much appreciated.
Liz
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I came across these posts when I was idly searching for what ever came to mind.
William Marshall (1775-1857) married Emelia Murray (1779-1856) were the parents of
John Marshall (1806-1894) married Nicholas Young (1808-1892) who were the parents of
Dr William Marshall (1834-1884) who was a brother of
Betsy Marshall (1841--1923) married William Rose (1838-1890) they immigrated to Australia in 1854. They are the parents of
Euphemia Rosewho married John Young in Perth WAust in 1896. They were my father's maternal grandparents. These two had a common ancestor of James Young (b 1775) who had two wives Elizabeth Miller (m 1799) of whom Nicholas Young is descendant from and Mary McVicar (m 1817).
I would be interested in getting in contact with any persons also researching these families. As I would like to compile something before my father's generation has all passed on.
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Resurrecting this old thread as I believe I am related through the Marshall family.
I am a descendent of John Marshall and Jannet Gorrie (b. 1748 d. Between 1841-1851) who were married at Perth in 1777. My understanding is that they had the following children:
John Marshall
b. 1778 Perth
William Marshall
b. 1781 Perth.
m. Amelia Murray.
d. 1857 Methven.
James Marshall
b. Abt 1787 Methven.
m. Mary Melville.
d. 1869 New Scone.
James Marshall and Mary Melville were my 5x Great Grandparents.
Jannet Gorrie lived to a very old age as she was listed on the 1841 census living alongside her son William and his wife Amelia at Methven in Perthshire. She was over 90 years old at the time.
I'd be keen to get in touch with anyone related to these families.
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In the last couple of days, I came across a reference online to Dr William Marshall, doctor to Queen Victoria who was born in Methven. Years ago my father told me a family story that involved my g-grandfather claiming to have met Queen Victoria as a child on a number of occasions whilst visiting Balmoral with a relative who was her medical advisor. This was dismissed as fanciful as we come from modest stock (Ag labourers and Domestic servants) and never verified until now.
I scuttled to my family tree as a William Marshall born in Methven about 1835 was there. Although there appeared a link, I researched Dr William to try to find his parentage. I came across this forum whilst doing this and, having read the posts so far, the parents of Dr William are those of the parents I have on my tree. Thus there is a strong implication that they are both the same person.
Like you I am a descendant of John Marshall and Janet Gorrie. I did not have any details of John and Janet but did believe they had 2 sons William and John. I was not aware of James.
My connection back to the Marshalls, Gorries, Youngs, Stobies, Miller and Murrays resulted from my g-g-grandfather marrying William Marshall's sister Ann in 1862. If my calculations are correct John Marshall and Janet Gorrie are my 5 x great grandparents. I haven't been able to progress further back on that line.
In reference to other posters on this thread, I haven't been able to progress further back than James Young and wife Elizabeth Miller in that line. However in the line featuring William Marshall and Amelia (Emily) Murray, I believe Amelia's parents were Mungo Murray and Margaret Stobie who married c. 1764 and whose banns were read in Madderty on the 12 Aug 1764 and at Fowlis Wester on the 30 August 1764.
I am very interested in progressing any of these lines or, indeed any descendent information from any of these lines.
Peter
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Hi Peter,
Welcome to RootsChat.
Interesting to read that you are descended from Dr Marshall's sister Ann and her husband. I too am descended from Ann and her husband through their first child, John. I hope you don't mind me asking from which of their children you descend.
My family tree is on the ancestry.com site. I can send you the reference to access my tree by private message to RootsChat but, before you can receive a private message, you must first as a new member make 3 postings on RootsChat. If you are not a member of ancestry, I will try my best to pass on information which I think may be of interest to you by private message or email, whichever you prefer. Only send your email address by private message should you choose.
Dr Marshall's connection to Queen Victoria has generated a lot of interest and brought together a few researchers. I trust he will further your research.
Regards.
Liz
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Hello Liz,
I wasn't expecting such a quick response to my posting but obviously very pleased to have made contact with someone with whom I have a direct lineage. I confess that I have had a few years off from my research but retirement and cold,dark English evenings have drawn me back.
I am a descendant of James Roy(1866-1944) son of John Roy and Ann Marshall. As you may know, John Roy re-married Elizabeth McGlashan (his first cousin) in 1875 after the early death of Ann in 1874.
James Roy married MaryAnn McNeil in 1890 in Dundee, producing 4 children (Betsy, Maggie, James and William). However, prior to the marriage, in 1887, MaryAnn had delivered an illegitimate son who was registered as John Roy McNeil. This was my grandfather. On the marriage of James and MaryAnn, the birth of my grandfather was legitimised and his name changed to John McNeil Roy. I have confirmation that my grandfather is truly the son of James and the family resemblance of father and son and with his brother William is very noticeable.
John McNeil Roy married Catherine Ann Mowat in 1916 and had my father James Roy and his sister Isobella Mackay Roy. James married Jessie Ann Garvie Clow in 1948 and I was born in 1951, an only child.
My Roy lineage gets a bit complicated, there are so many James and Johns. In fact, during my father's generation, there were no fewer than 5 James Roy in existence at the same time, and all were railwaymen. It was fun during family occasions working out who was who and what their relationships were. Sadly all these have now passed on, although there are progeny out there somewhere.
Thank you for your offer of further information. I'm sure that I would enjoy furthering my family tree and offer any information you may find useful in your own research. I'm not currently a subscriber to Ancestry as I have always found Scotland's People a satisfactory source. However, I'll investigate this possibility. In the meantime I'll try to get to grips with this forum.
Once again it's been a pleasure making contact and I look forward to speaking again
Peter
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Hi Peter,
You are the first person I have met who is descended from John Roy and Ann Marshall. Yes I know that John re-married his first cousin. Their son John (my great grandfather) married Jessie McKillip (or Janet Cumming Keil) and their daughter Christina married my grandfather Alexander Sandilands Rennie. Janet Cumming Keil was illegitimate and later took the name of her father, McKillip. Below is a timeline of events and descendants of John and Janet.
Marriage
John Roy married Janet Cumming Keil on June 30, 1882, when he was 19 years old and Janet Cumming Keil (1861–1936) age 22, at the District of St Mary, Burgh of Dundee.
ABT 1882
* Birth of Son
His son John was born in 1882 in St Martins, Perthshire.
10 AUG 1884
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Christina was born on August 10, 1884, in St Martins, Perthshire.
ABT 1888
Birth of Son
His son James was born in 1888 in Cargill, Perthshire.
ABT 1889
** Birth of Son
His son Frank Buttar was born in 1889 in Kilspindie, Perthshire.
ABT 1892
Birth of Son
His son Charles was born in 1892 in Kinnoull, Perthshire.
ABT 1893
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Jessie Ann was born in 1893 in Kinnaird, Perthshire.
ABT 1897
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Isabella was born in 1897 in Cargill, Perthshire.
ABT 1899
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Betsy was born in 1899 in Cargill, Perthshire.
ABT 1901
Birth of Daughter
His daughter Fanny Brown was born in 1901 in Cargill, Perthshire.
29 OCT 1936
Death of Wife
His wife Janet Cumming passed away on October 29, 1936, at the age of 75, Ruthven Avenue, Perth. They had been married 54 years.
* Birth certificate shows he was born illegitimate to John Roy and Jessie McKillop.
** Birth certificate shows he was born illegitimate to John Roy and Margaret Emslie m.s. Buttar (widow). Frank is with the family of John Roy and Jessie McKillop on the 1891 and the 1901 census and recorded as son. Frank's death certificate confirms his birth parents as shown on the birth certificate. I found the death certificate, 1938, of a Margaret Drummond m.s. Buttar, widow of (1) John Emslie and (2) George Drummond. From the index of marriages on ScotlandsPeople, Margaret and George married in 1897.
Apart from my direct line from daughter Christina, I have no information on her siblings' descendants. The furthest back I have gone on the direct line of our Roy ancestry is to a John Roy and his wife Janet Christie; their son Duncan (1785-1871) and his wife Betty Watson. Possibly you know that already. I sometimes wonder if our Roy family is connected to the celebrated Rob Roy McGregor, any thoughts?
If you want details of John Roy and Ann Marshall's other children, I can pass on to you.
You will find Dr Marshall's will on the Scotland's People site and that of his brother, John, who died at the age of 43 in Brazil.
I am no longer a member of ancestry.com and only ever had a free trial subscription but luckily I can still access to view and update my tree.
I find that I only now open my ancestry when someone is asking for information re my ancestors. So new inquiries are always welcome lest I forget my past.
Anway happy hunting.
Liz
ps I was brought up in Perth and never knew anything about nor was interested in these ancestors at the time.
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Hi Peter
I have read with interest the recent posts. I have been researching Dr Marshall's life for a couple of years now and am just about to complete my little biography of him. I am a descendant if his sister Betsy Marshall who married William Rose and in 1864 they emigrated to Australia. Their eldest Daughter Nicholas returned to Scotland at 18 to help nurse her Uncle. She married William Stothard
and remained in Scotland.
I also am a descendant of both wives of James Young through both my Great grandparents - John Young and Euphemia Rose who married in Western Australia in 1896.
I can send you what I have gleaned from various sources. Always looking for that personal story to add which makes a person more real. Actually I have been stalling on finishing my story only because I will be sad to see an end to my endeavours.
Evelyn Mitchell
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Hi again Peter and Hello Evelyn,
It's good to hear from you again, Evelyn. I look forward to reading your finished work on Dr Marshall. I can understand you feeling sad too when it is complete.
Peter, thanks to you, I am now paying more attention to my Roy ancestry and have been surfing the net for clues. I found the following with reference to a Roy/McGregor connection onhttp://www.douglasofmonzieandfowliswester.com/page/10-glenalmond_in_the_45. Apologies if you already know:
"The Roys and the McGregors?
The surname Roy comes from Lanarkshire originally so it is a little strange to find so many nestled in Perthshire, but it can also refer to a person's hair colour, a corruption of ruadh (red).
Everyone has heard of Rob Roy McGregor, the famous 18th century Scotsman (portrayed well by Liam Neeson in a 1990s film). Was Roy a surname for him? Apparently not- his mother's maiden name was Campbell and he took that name when he needed to.
The McGregor clan heartland was Balquhidder, further west in Perthshire. They, famously, had their surname banned in the early 1600s by James VI and were forced to take other names. According to the Clan Gregor Society www.clangregor.com new surnames were allocated to them. There are 4 lists of names. Roy is on a list of documented aliases used by McGregors. Interestingly, Douglas is on the list of other clan names known to have been used by the McGregors. My thanks to webmaster Nancy Johnson for drawing my attention to this.
So- it is possible that the Roy family (and all the descendants of the Charles Douglas born in 1700 come from them) who married Douglases in the early 1700s were originally McGregors. It is even possible that those first Douglases we find were themselves originally McGregors, I suppose!"
Will leave you to digest.
Liz
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Hello Liz and Evelyn,
Thanks for the replies with the lineage information. It will take a little time to digest and process all of this info. The Marshalls seem to have been an adventurous lot, royal physician, emigrating to Australia, ending up in Brazil etc. Poor old Ann was recorded as a domestic servant on her marriage certificate. I shall have to look more closely at this family as they sound interesting.
1n 1999, I received a letter from a man in Doncaster whose mother was a ROY. He had traced his lineage back to James ROY possibly born in July 1767 in Crieff who married Elspeth PHILLIP. Their son James ROY, a mason, was born possibly in August 1797 in Forteviot. He married Mary SCOTT.
This James ROY had a natural son (ie illegitimate), James ROY, a farm labourer of Methven, born about 1834 to a Jane PROUDFOOT, of Methven. (Aargh, you see what I meant by all these James Roys!!)
One very interesting fact that derived from this letter was that he had a pedigree for the ROYs of Crieff, going back to John ROY, born 1675 in Crieff. He had received this pedigree from a man in Australia whose relative had researched the ROY family of Crieff. This relative was the then (1991) Bishop of Melbourne, who was at one time an Anglican clergyman who had unlimited access to the church records of Crieff.
From these records, the researcher found that the ROYs of Crieff (and almost certainly the ROYs of Methven) were descendants of a family of Flemish weavers brought to Strathearn (ie the area around Crieff and Methven) by the Earl of Perth sometime between 1611 and 1662. Several of these migrants changed their names to ROY because they came from the town of Roeulx, SW of Brussels. The earliest entries for the name ROY spelt it ROEY. (If the family reporting births, deaths and marriages were illiterate, the church official would enter the name as he heard it so Roeulx could sound the same as ROEY or ROY)
This gentleman could not link my specific ROYs into this pedigree but was very confident that my research in the future would establish the link as he was sure that the ROYs of Methven and the ROYs of Crieff are inter-related
So, Liz and Evelyn, it is possible that we are actually Belgian. I don't know about you but I feel a bit miffed about that. The romanticism of being related to Rob Roy has dissipated. I was always of the opinion that the Roy on Rob Roy was from the Gaelic word "red haired" and more likely. A further suggestion, although a bit tenuous, was that the name ROY was derived from the name FITZROI (illegitimate children of the King of France or members of the King's court) as a result of dalliances by Scotswomen whilst in exile from the home country. I think I would prefer that to the notion of being Belgian. I will keep my options open about the McGregor link though.
As usual, these correspondences usually throw up more questions than answers but that is the challenge of the hobby. It has no end. Thanks again for the contact and I look forward to keeping in touch, either to pick brains or supply any info I may have. Cheers for now.
Peter
PS Liz. I too was born and bred in Perth (1951-1969) until I went to uni and then into HM forces. I ended up in Norfolk. I too have links with Ruthven Avenue (a rough old area in its day)
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Hi All
The earliest that I can find taken from the Muthill register of Episcopalian births.
NORMAND TAYLLOR lawful son to John Tayllor and Elspet Roy in Alichroy was born the 9th of Aprile and Baptised the tenth of ye sd month 1699.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Peter and Liz
I know this is a little off centre, but I too was born and lived in Perth, although it is Perth, Western Australia. It was named after Perth, Scotland because James Stirling the said founder hailed from the area. I have always had a leaning towards my ancestors that came from Perth because of that.
Evelyn.
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Hi Peter,
Thank you for the information on the ROYs of Crieff and most likely Methven being descended from a family of Flemish weavers brought to Strathearn. I found it fascinating and my romance with Rob Roy soon waned on researching Scotland and the Flemish people.
There is an excellent University of St Andrews' blog "Scotland and the Flemish People": https://flemish.wp.st-andrews.ac.uk/. They held a conference on this subject in mid June 2016 and posted a short summary of their findings. One of the themes discussed at the conference was DNA. There is a blog on a DNA project to test families with possible Flemish origin and it lists the principle families involved, including ROY. At the time of this blog, no ROYs had enlisted; perhaps you could be the first!
The town of Le Roeulx is in the French-speaking Walloonist region of Belgium. Le Roeulx Castle is also known as the Chateau des Princes de Croy, or castle of the Princes de Croy. I was impressed by the similarity between the names Croy and Roy. Of course, Croy in French would sound different, or in Dutch.
Also, to put into the mix, is the similarity between the family names ROY and ROYES. ROYES may be French in origin; there is a town in France named Royes. Thousands of French-speaking Huguenots came to England in the 16-17th centuries, bringing their textile industries. You can find ROYEs on
ScotlandsPeople.
All very interesting. We will likely find out that ROYs are a melting pot of redheaded revolutionists weaving a web of French Royal dalliances.
Thank you for your contribution.
If I find anything of interest, I will contact you.
Liz
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Hi All
I had a quick look on Scotland's people this morning at the lord for the surname Roy from their database you get from memory 1048 hits.
The earliest I found was 1639 and most of the early ones are from West Perthshire bounded by Kenmore to auchterarder methven and frustration I will have another look once I have finished shopping with she who must be obeyed.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Thanks, Bruce. Hope you survived the shopping.
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Hi All
I had another look at the OPRs with the surname "ROY" and it shows some interesting snippets.
In Scotland there are 4145 Births/baptisms listed and almost a quarter of them1049 are in Perthshire,2228 Banns/marriages 552 are in Perthshire
The most of the earliest ones mid 17th Century are from the parish of Kenmore.
The earliest birth in Crieff is a Duncan Roy 21st July 1700
The Earliest in Fowlis Wester is a John Roy born 15th June 1675
The Earliest in Kenmore is a Christian Roy born 3rd July 1636
All the above information was taken from www.scotlandspeople.gv.uk
Yours Aye
BruceL