RootsChat.Com
Family History Documents and Artefacts => Graveyards and Gravestones => Topic started by: Plummiegirl on Saturday 30 October 10 21:07 BST (UK)
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I regularly see requests on here for photos to be taken of ancestors' graves (I have done this myself).
Even if you know the name of cemetery, plot no. etc., do, before posting on here, contact the cemetery office to check that there is a gravestone or marker to be photographed.
Many of our ancestors, although they paid into insurance and "burial clubs" would only have had enough money for the basic burial and not for a memorial.
I know from past experience that not all graves have headstones. Also when you think about it, if every grave in a cemetery had a headstone they would have run out of space far quicker than they did. I would say that on average most cemeteries must have only about 3/4 of their graves marked. And remember that plot number could easily be a paupers/council burial.
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Hi there
Some sound advice here from Plummiegirl.
Having transcribed churchyard memorials now for over 20 years, I have found that only about 10% have any kind of marker on them, and the longer the marker has been open to the elements, the more likely it will be illegible. An experienced Stonemason once told me that thanks to Acid Rain, tombstones have deteriorated more in the last 50 years than in the previous 200 years.
As an example - St John Sub Castro in Lewes has according to the burial registers (1602 to 1993), some 6591 residents buried in its churchyard, of which we found 770 memorials, which as mentioned earlier is approx 1 in 9.(rounded up is about 10%)
Because the churchyard was very largely overgrown when we first started work on it, thus protecting the Inscriptions, only 18 stones failed to give us any information as to the inhabitants.
Chris in 1066
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Hi Both,
As a regular contributor to a free site for memorial photo's and also I take many volunteer photo's I can agree that many are in poor shape. However many cemetery offices have no idea if there is a memorial stone -if you are lucky you can obtain a plot number but having put your idea to the test I was told if you would like to check for a gravestone here is the situation but we have no idea.
Much of my volunteer work is in Parish Churchyards -my record was searching for 36 family graves for an Australian gentleman -I found 2!Perhaps I am in the minority but I never consider it a wasted journey if I arrive and find no headstone.Many people are grateful for a photograph of the Church/Cemetery and a few general shots.
Surely it's not purely about collecting gravestone photo's -many people are just very interested to see where their relatives were laid to rest.
L
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hi chatters I live in Pennsylvania USA. I have been photographing entire cemeteries some with as many as 20,000 souls buried there. I was on the search for a child who was born and died in the same year according to my family history. However mandatory registration of birth and death in Pennsylvania was not established until 1906. so with that in mind what proof is there that a child existed if there are no church records and the child was born and died between census years? The only proof for some of these births and deaths is a cemetery transcription or a tombstone photo. It is not about collecting photos, it's about having the means to possibly help someone, that maybe one of my photos can help someone with their own family history it makes the time I spend in the cemeteries worth it. Beans
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and, on the other hand, I was assured by a Dublin cemetery that one of my family graves would not have a headstone because:
1. it was not a private plot as there were two many burials in it (11 listed).
2. The grave was never finally purchased by the family, although exclusively used by them, and no memorial could be added before the purchase.
3. It was in an area of the graveyard where most of the stones originally there, have by now been damaged/removed.
After confirming that two of the "single" burials for this family were indeed in the same plot, they adjusted their records so that I could find the rest of the burials in this plot and, on visiting, I found and photographed the plot and the stone. The inscription, although barely legible, indicated that the memorial was erected after the first (two) burials and added to after the third, all in the first five years after the first burial in the 1850s. There were no further additions to the memorial but the information there confirmed the parents of one of the couple I had been looking for.
Even where extensive records exist for a cemetery, as with civil registers and church records, it doesn't mean that they are always complete and correct. I was so glad that I had bothered to pursue this.
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This has been the case when researching my family tree. My maternal grandparents didn't have a gravestone at all, so I asked at the office and someone had to show me the plot, it's very sad that the family couldn't afford a headstone.
My own parents' gravestone (white chalkstone type) was so worn my family put together to buy a new one, black marble with gold lettering, much easer to read and less chance of it wearing away.
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I have had many a "no stone found" trip but I take a photo of the plot and the surrounds. I don't think of it as a wasted trip. There again our family plot has no headstone!
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Huckleberry - you have missed my point - its OK to go for yourself and find 'nothing'.
However if some kind person takes the time to look for you then surely you should have thought in the first place about contacting cemetery etc., before sending that person off on a wild goose chase.
Many people on here will go a along way (even though local) to help people with photographs of graves and even houses etc., so the courtesy of making sure there is actually something to photograph should be taken into account.
Very early on in my reasearch I went from the outer boundaries of South London to the outer boundaries of North London (no easy feat) one hot Saturday morning to visit my g/grandmothers grave. Only to find nothing as it turned out the plot was a council grave, with several others nearby, so the whole area was bare. Very frustrating and nearly a whole day wasted. I learned from that experience to call in advance in future.
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Providing there is no conflict over copyright with the cemetery, have you thought about adding the photo's and transcriptions to findagrave.com? It was down to a volunteer in the US that I traced the whereabouts of a branch of my family tree and then on to living relatives.
Hugs
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Plummiegirl .
I did not miss the point. I will go on a"fruitless" search because it can be helpful.
Here is one of the last I took that did not have a headstone - The location of the grave site and the surrounds helped the decendent to know just where the family were buried.
(http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8299/7899624264_1e637ba76e_z.jpg)
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As a regular gravestone photo volunteer -I recently thought I would check with both a church & council if they could confirm there were headstones present before I visited the cemetery.
They had no idea!
Like Huckleberry I never consider that I have wasted my time looking -so many people are happy to have a photograph of the location where family are buried.
In the case of a large cemetery a plot & section number is vital as it's easy to check from the stones present where the grave is situated.
I also check Find A Grave to see if there are entries that need a photo before I set out to a particular cemetery -perhaps others would consider doing this when they go to take grave photo's for theirselves.
Richview
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I have found that if you contact the graveyard offices they will confirm if a headstone is there or not. Normally the guys will either call you back or ask you to call back in about 1 hr so that they can check.
Personally I would not want a photo of nothing but a bit of grass, I can do that anywhere.
My orignal post did stem from my own personal experience when first starting out. And spent a whole day going from 1 side of Sth London the the other side of North London only to find that there was nothing at all to show for my efforts.
Also if someone is not conversant with a area ie London, they may not realise just how much effort has to sometime be made just to get to some cemetaries.
I was only posting a sort of 'buyer beware' to alert folk to the fact that not every grave had a headstone or marker.
I am really getting fed up with the last few posts where I am almost be vilified for just offering some practical advice.
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I was only posting a sort of 'buyer beware' to alert folk to the fact that not every grave had a headstone or marker.
I am really getting fed up with the last few posts where I am almost be vilified for just offering some practical advice.
Useful, practical advice it was, too.
I don't think you should feel "vilified" by the previous posters, I'm sure that wasn't their intention. Your point is correct though - it's fine to go on spec and "waste" your own time if there's nothing to see but it's worth thinking it through before asking someone else to do the same.
Peace and love
Mike
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Perhaps it depends on what area of the UK you live - our cemetery office is not on site and they are unable to tell you if there is a headstone present. With churchyards how many vicars have the time to wander around I know my doesn't.
I asked a vicar in Cornwall who told me to look myself a journey of some 8 hours by coach.
It surely is a personal choice as to taking a photograph of the area where someones relatives rest if there is no marker.
My aim was to try to tell people that information is not always available -one only has to look at sites such as Find A Grave to see how few volunteers there are in the UK.
I fail to see how you are being "vilified" Huckleberry has the same view as myself -I see another poster said the same thing.
As you say you would not want a photo of an area of grass -many people from overseas are thrilled to have a photo of the church & burial site .
My intention was not to upset you but to say not everyone is lucky enough to have cemetery departments or churchyards where you can obtain information before you go.
Richview
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I have been following this post and I am a walking volunteer in the USA in Pennsylvania. I had run into the same problem of spending hours and not finding what I was looking for. So I started photographing entire cemeteries. I thought if I take pictures as I walk I would eventually find the grave I was looking for and I might have photos of graves someone else might be looking for. I got the idea from Norrie G. after she posted a picture of a grave in Scotland for me. If I am going to spend a couple of hours looking for 1 grave why not make that time productive. I have now completed 76 cemeteries have over 300,000 photos and have filled 400+ photo requests on Find A Grave. I think it is important that we can docuement the older cemeteries before the stones deteriorate completely as some already have. I am extremely happy that one of my photos might help somebody solve a family mystery or just help them find where family is buried. Beans
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On contacting a cemetery in Staffordshire I was told:
"It would be possible for you to take a photograph providing that the photo only contains the image of your family grave and not any surrounding memorials."
I had not considered that there would be a problem in taking photographs. I had not asked permission, I was merely trying to locate a grave.
Tofgem
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On contacting a cemetery in Staffordshire I was told:
"It would be possible for you to take a photograph providing that the photo only contains the image of your family grave and not any surrounding memorials."
I had not considered that there would be a problem in taking photographs. I had not asked permission, I was merely trying to locate a grave.
Tofgem
Was this cemetery still in use or containing graves of people whose immediate family might still be alive, or was it a Victorian graveyard that hasn't been used for decades?
I am puzzled when I read on websites of these graveyards that you need to get permission to take photographs. I don't understand the reasoning.
I don't like going in graveyards that aren't old anyway, and have a quick read of some of the epitaphs on stones to check that there aren't any from the past hundred years, and it makes me uncomfortable to stay if there are.
Some of these older headstones look so worn that I can imagine them becoming completely illegible within a couple of years, and they can't have any living relatives.
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Some of these older headstones look so worn that I can imagine them becoming completely illegible within a couple of years, and they can't have any living relatives.
Certainly the headstones will become illegible, which makes the kind and sterling efforts of people like beansgram so commendable.
However - your saying 'they can't have any living relatives' is not true. They are almost certain to have some living relatives, even if distant in miles and/or relationship. Graves of my family are far away in Nova Scotia, Ireland, New Zealand but just because I am unable tend them does not mean to say there are no living relatives.
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In reply to Julie. The grave in question was dated 1920 and the graveyard is still in use. In defence of the office I contacted I was offered a personal guide to help me locate the grave (he was even prepared to meet me on a Saturday). As I was travelling a long distance en route to somewhere else I declined the offer as I couldn't guarantee my time of arrival. Being a geographer I sent him an aerial photograph and a map on which the grave could be located so that I could find it easily. Mistake - I ought to have known better! The location marked was way off target. I searched in vain and was just about to give up when my dog (on her extended lead) found the grave for me. She brought tears to my eyes.
Tofgem
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Have put these on findagrave but no plot details and not anywhere near the area. Suffered a stroke so may be missing something obvious as how to find plot details as mind is running at half speed since illness - any ideas or tips welcomed ... Derek
1. Florence Hutchinson b. 1934, d. 1993 does have a headstone
Lily Hutchinson b. 1906, d. 1994 mum of Florence not named on headstone i am told
Thomas Hutchinson b. 1901 dad of Florence not named on headstone i am told
2. Catherine Armstrong b. 1902, d. 1967 and husband John Armstrong b. 1901, d. 1965
3. Florence Oxley b. 1895, d. 1974 and husband George Oxley b.? d. 1968
4. John Nixon b. 1930, d. 2008
5. Wilfred Herdman b. 1900, d. 1970