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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Ayrshire => Topic started by: elinga on Wednesday 03 November 10 11:22 GMT (UK)
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hi rootschatters
does anyone know where Hutchison Square would have been situated in Irvine in 1884.
I have an old map of Irvine but cannot find it but there are some landmarks, which may help me find its location!
am also trying to locate Boatslabs!
any offers of help woud be greatly appreciated!
regards
Elinga
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Hi, I see you posted this enquiry over 2 years ago so you may have the answer. I too am puzzled over this place name as an ancestor claimed on his wedding document in 1893 that he lived there. I have pored over maps and made numerous enquiries but I can find no reference to it in Irvine or anywhere else. Knowing that this particular relative was a bit of a scallywag I suspected a made up name until I saw your post, have you found it?
The name Boatstabs or Boatslabs (I've seen various spellings) was an area adjacent to the harbour near a now extinct slipway and was, as the name suggests, probably used to beach boats. I have an early map showing a single property called Boatslabs with an adjacent well. I have found an ancestor who in 1880 lived at no. 10 Boatstabs so the area became built upon over the years.
In 1922 the Council consolidated many street names in Irvine, so, Boatslabs, Peter Street and Gutheries Road became what is now Gottries Road.
Hope this helps.
I'm researching the Abercrombies from Ivine, by the way.
Merv.
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Hi Elinga and Merv.
Welcome to Rootschat Merv :)
I saw this entry on the Post Office 1896-7 Irvine Directory:
.....
Hill Street, off Bridgegate
Hutchison's (or Lindsay's) Square
lnglis Land, off Fullarton St.
....etc.
http://archive.org/stream/postofficegene189697dire#page/104/mode/2up
Wondered if this would help in finding the property/land you are looking for.
Monica
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Completely unscientific this!
From that 1896-7 directory and the names of householders given at the Hutchison/Lyndsay Square location. A Thomas Williamson and a Daniel Bradley both show as 'head of household' at 118 Harbour Street for 1901.
As I said, unscientific for sure ;)
Maybe a better way...a Thomas Williamson (the same Thomas I think from 1901) shows in 1891 as living at 4 Hutchison Square. A check of the original image either side of this address might help with sorting out its location. I think I can see households 1-5 Hutchi/eson Sq. I can give you details of who lived at 1 or 5 if you do want to check the original image given that there are 69 entries in total for Hutschison Sq., let me know and I can list a household living at either 1 or 5 so you can check addresses at either side.
Regarding 1881, maybe this is where the reference of Hutchison or Lindsay Square comes in as I think it shows as Lindsay Square for 1881.
Monica
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Hi all :)
1881 Census , Dundonald , Ayr
Pages 1 to 10 , addresses given -
Peter Street , Boatslabs , Lindsay Sq. , Cochrane Park
ev
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That is great Ev, thank you :)
Merv., with your maps and knowledge of the area (and previous reference to Boatslabs), can you figure it out?!
Monica
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Hi Monica and All, what a terrific document, I did not know that such a brilliant directory existed, what a mine of information! I've just found out that my relation who lived in Boatstobs operated a small shop from his home, and the adverts!!! This will keep me occupied for quite a while. I assume that this was the only year it was published as I cannot find another.
Yes, Hutchinsons Square (or Lindsay's Square) and Inglis Land are both off Fullarton Street. I'll have a look tomorrow at the census records but as the census was done on a street by street basis I don't think I'll be able to pin it down accurately, nor do I need to as knowing it did exist and it's general location is probably enough. Perhaps if I locate a more detailed map of that era.........but I'm curious now!
What I did notice was that there was a gap between nos. 49 and 57 Fullarton St. and Inglis Land (off Fullarton St.) was numbered 51 to 55 so it obviously slotted in there. Unfortunately there is no numbering for Hutchisons Square, but I'll have a look and let you know.
Great forum this, thanks very much for the information all.
Merv.
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http://maps.nls.uk/
If you check the digital OS maps at the National Library of Scotland
Ayr Sheet XV11.13 (Dundonald) Survey Date 1856 Pub 1860 there is an area off Fullarton Street that looks square and with formal planting trees shrubs etc. Poss. area marked 77
D
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Hi D. Thanks, had a look at it. Don't know what that is, it looks like a public garden doesn't it. Although I doubt if a public garden would be constructed in what was essentially a very poor working class area with a fair proportion of slum dwellings in Irvine in the 1860's. It may have been the garden of an earlier larger house that has been demolished. I have an 1819 map which seems to confirm this theory as the gap onto the street was filled by a building but gives no details of a garden only a long "back rigg" like the rest of the properties. It also shows the "lane", area 76, from the street to the river and the L shaped building to the south of the lane.
Area 78 looks a good bet though as it looks more lived in and it's closer to the Chemical works, he was a "chemical labourer". I'll have a go at the census later.
Thanks to All. Merv
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Hi All, Had another closer look at the PO Directory I now think that it is only Inglis Land which is off Fullarton Street and that Hutchison's (or Lindsay's Square) take their place in alphabetical order in the index and are stand-alone streets.
I don't think the description "square" has the same meaning then as now, perhaps a large building with many occupiers and entries. I took your advice Monica and delved a bit deeper into the 1881 and 1891 census', hitting the streets before and after the squares.
1891; there are no images for the street before but the street after was John Street which was in the harbour area adjacent to Boatstabs. H to J ! Hmm alphabetical order maybe?
1881; Hutchison's Square then known as Lindsay's Square. I was surprised to find that the street before and after was in fact Boatstabs! So it looks as though the "Square" may have been a very large building (judging by the number of people on the census) perhaps owned by someone called Lindsay and then Hutchison in the middle of the street called Boatstabs at the harbour area.( there are many sea related occupations on the census') Not conclusive though.
There is a friend of a friend of a friend who apparently is a local historian, I'll give him a try.
Think I'll tackle my Irish people now for a bit of light relief. ha Ha!
Thanks All
Merv.
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It will all be in the detail for sure. Could well have been a building(s) rather than a street.
Go and clear your head with some Irish research, come back to this when your head aches with them ;)
Monica
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Hi Merv
I also have Abercrombies from Irvine
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Hi, majority of the Abercrombies in Irvine originated from one family moving from Ireland in the 1880's. and one or two did move east, so there is possibly a connection there somewhere and I would be interested to know what the link is.
Could you tell me what you know please.
Merv
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Hi Merv
My interest in the Abercrombies in Irvine is Margaret Bell (orig from Ireland) who married Alexander Abercrombie, at the time of their marriage 1893 in Irvine his address was Hutchison Square and Margarets was Peter Street .
Regards
Margaret
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Hi Margaret, Alexander was one of my Great Grandfather's brothers who all originated from Co Fermanagh. I haven't done a lot of research on his wife Margaret Bell but the their family history together was quite tragic what with the very high rate of infant mortality etc. How are you related to her?
It was seeing his address at Hutchinsons Square which was a bit of a mystery to me that prompted my first post.
Merv.
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Hi Merv
Margaret was a sister of my Gt Grandfather, they were born in County Down.
I was quite happy when I first saw they had a lot of children until I noticed how many of them had died in infancy.
Peter St. is still down the harbour although all new houses.
Margaret
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Hi Margaret, what was his name?I have a connection between his sisters Margaret and Mary!
Merv.
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Hi Merv
My Gt Grandfather was James Bell
His parents were Robert Bell / Jane Reilly
Family were
James Bell ( my Gt grandfather )
John Bell born Rathfryland
Hannah born Down
Sarah Ann Down
Margaret born 1st June 1872 Rarhfryland / Down/ Ireland married to Alexander Abercrombie
Mary Jane born 1874 Down .
Margaret
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Hi Margaret, 5 April 1891 census at 5 Peter St. shows Robert and Jane Bell and children, John 27, Margaret 18, and Mary J. 17. On the 24 July of that year Margaret gave birth to an illegitimate son by Alexander Abercrombie whom they named Joseph Bell. Alexander and Margaret married on 30 Oct 1893 and went on to produce at least another 14 children, of whom about 4 or 5 survived!!
Mary married a James Harswell 13 July 1894 and had a son named Richard Lennox Harswell on 8 Aug 1894. Joseph and Richard were cousins born in the same street, possibly the same close.
Account in the 16 June 1905 issue of the Ardrossan ans Saltcoats Herald reports; "While bathing in the river Irvine near the shipyard, Richard Harsell (sic) (10) got into difficulties and his cousin, Alex (sic) Abercrombie, Peter Street, Irvine who plunged into the river to his rescue, was drowned. The weight of his clothes dragged him under."
Even them newspapers made errors; Richards surname misspelt, and giving Joseph his father's and younger brother's name. All the documents confirm that it was Joseph. Sad isn't it.
Hope that fills in some gaps.
Merv.
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Thanks for that info , I didn't know about the drowning of Joseph which is so sad, I also didn't know of him.
I knew about Mary Janes' marriage to James Harswell, her sister Hannah married Richard Lennox 1887 , they also stayed at 5 Peter St.
I have a photo of an Alex Abercrombie taken with my dad he called him Crummie.
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Hi Margaret, Crummie was a nickname given to some Abercrombies! there was Crommies also from Ireland in Irvine at the time, maybe that's where it came from! I had an uncle Alex, my Dad's brother, who was born in 1918 but who moved to Patna then Corby as a married man. He was nicknamed Acky! Could be him. Could you tell me what your dad's name was and where was he from? I would be very interested in getting a look at the photo.
Merv.
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Hi Merv
I'll look out the photo over the week-end for you.
My Dad was Alex Bell and was born in Irvine on the back of the photo my mum had written Alex Abercrombie ( Crummie) and that he was a cousin of Dad , I know there used to be conversations of him as he was also a friend of his.
Margaret.
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Hi Merv
I have the photo
Where will I send it ?
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Hi Margaret,
I've sent you a personal message.
Merv
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hi Merv Margaret and Monica
I hadnt looked at this post for a long time, but thanx for all your help.
my relatives lived at 9 Peter Street ,my great grandfather and grandfather both also work in the Chemical Factory, so am sure they must have known one another.
its a small world.
we lived in the Ayr Road side of Irvine and there were a few families of Abercrombie and still are today.
thanx again
regards
Elinga
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Hi Elinga,
Still no further forward on the exact location of Hutchisons Square!
What were the names of your relatives that lived in Peter St?
Merv
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hi Merv
great grandparents who lived in John Street first ,were Robert and Maggie McCrorie they had lots of children including my grandfather who was named Samuel but got called Creash!
later when my grand father married they moved to 40 Rubie Crescent and had 5 children including my dad.
Elinga
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Hi Elinga,
My folks lived in the John St., Peter St., Harbour St. area and most worked in the chemical works.
My dad William was born in Friars Croft, moved to Scott Rd. and then to Rubie Cr. where he was married from in 1945. Not sure of the street number but I guess it was in the 20's and backed onto the railway line (now the southern approach road) So one way or the other the Abercrombies would have known the McCrories but I'm not familiar with the name, sorry.
Yes, you're right it is a very small world!
Merv.
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Hi Merv
my dad lived at 40 Rubie Crescent which was at the small square he married my mother in 1946 later they moved to McKinlay Crescent, where I lived as a child.
sounds to me they that would make them born around the same time my dad was born in 26, so they likely went to the school together !
regards
Elinga
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Hi Elinga,
I was guessing with the number in Rubie Cr. it was the side that backed onto the railway line.
My Dad was born in 1916 and married in 1945 and moved in with the in laws in Bank St. His brother Tommy and sister Margaret (born 1924 and 1927) were more of the same age so it's more that likely that they were pals.
Merv.
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Hi merv
from my memory the square was opposite a row of houses which backed on to the railway.
but it was a small place and everyone knew one another.
is your dads family still in Irvine.
I dont live in the UK , but try to get back every year, its much harder doing genealogy sometimes from afar, when you just want to speak to someone to help in the search.........lol
I am going back in May again and going to try again to find amongst other things where was Hutchson Square.
regards
Elinga
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Hi Elinga,
Drove down to Rubie Cr today to have a look. Dad and his family must have lived across from the square in the odd numbers. From what I remember from childhood memories it was near the middle of the block with lounge window on the left and door to the right. There was a neighbour and friend, Mrs. Woolahan, at the end of the block.
Still looking into the Hutchison Sq. and I've enlisted the help of a local historian who is also flummoxed but he's looking into it. When in May are you coming to Irvine?
Merv
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hi Merv
not sure exactly but will be staying with my sister for 2 weeks from the 13th May who lives in Prestwick.
btw I have recently been looking at an old school photo from my primary school days , went to Loudon and in my first class there was a girl called (*) Abercrombie is she related to you, if I remember correctly she stayed in Merryvale or Scott Road, although I might be wrong !
Elinga
Identifying details of people who may still be living deleted as part of RootsChat's guidelines in order to protect people's identity and privacy. Thank you.
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yes I know the rules , sorry got caught up in the conversation !
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Hii I think I'm re!aged to this Abercrombie family!
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Hi Alexis, what's your connection?
Hii I think I'm re!aged to this Abercrombie family!