RootsChat.Com
Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Peeblesshire => Topic started by: Eleesavet on Thursday 04 November 10 05:48 GMT (UK)
-
Can't find OPR entry for Alexander Sandilands born circa 1808. According to a census he was born Broughton, Peeblesshire, and his death certificate gives his parents as Adam Sandilands and Elizabeth Dickson.
There are OPR entries for Adam and Elizabeth's children from 1796 to 1814 in different areas of Peeblesshire, but there is a gap between 1799 and 1809. Are the records missing between 1799 and 1809? I know it wasn't compulsory to register births pre-1854 but, if Adam and Elizabeth are the right parents, I wonder why they would not register Alexander.
Because I can't find an OPR entry for Alexander, I'm not 100% sure that Adam and Elizabeth (Betty/Isabel) are his parents.
I have been in contact with others researching these families, and checked out related family trees, and looked at censuses, but can find no further proof. The only proof I have is Alexander's death certificate and to a lesser degree the names he gave his children.
Alexander married Elizabeth Rule and they followed the traditional naming pattern when naming their children, with the exception of their second daughter, who was named Grace. Their third daughter was given the name Elizabeth.
Your thoughts would be appreciated. Perhaps somebody out there can find the relevant OPR entry. Fingers crossed.
Regards.
Liz
-
Hi,
Don't know if you have this so will post anyway.
Adam Sandilands married Elizabeth Dickson on 05 Nov 1796 at Drumelzier,Peebles,Scotland.
Sharon
-
Hi Sharon,
Thank you for taking the time to post marriage date. I had previously found it.
Liz
-
Hi Liz
Nice to make contact again and good to see you are still searching on the Sandilands line. I visited Broughton village, Scotland last year staying at a B&B in Kilbucho and found the house where Adam & Elizabeth Sandilands were living in the 1851 Census and I have a photo if you are interested.
From the different Census results your Alexander is listed as being born 1808 in:
1841 Census Alexa Sandeland born Scotland
1861 Census born Killbucky, Peebles
1871 Census born Kilbucho, Perthshire
The correct naming of this place is Kilbucho, Peeblesshire, Scotland.
Perhaps getting a film from Family Search for Kilbucho Parish around 1808 my reveal a baptism.
His parents Adam & Elizabeth were living in these areas for baptisms of other children so those parishes could also be searched.
3 Dec 1796 Drumelzier, Peeblesshire, Scotland Son -Thomas Baptism
3 Apr 1799 Innerleithen, Peeblesshire, Scotland Ploughman in Kirkland (from William's Birth notice)
1806 West Linton, Peeblesshire, Scotland From Daughter Helen's birthplace.
1808 Kilbucho Peeblesshire Scotland from Alexander's birthplace from 1861 Census
26 May 1809 Lyne and Megget, Peeblesshire, Scotland Ploughman in Lyne (from Adam's Birth notice)
1811 Lyne and Megget, Peeblesshire, Scotland Servant in Lyne (from George's birth notice)
1814 Lyne and Megget, Peeblesshire, Scotland Servant in Lyne, Isabel(?) Dickson his wife (from Walter's birth notice)
Good luck and the search continues.....
Sue in Australia (descendant of Alexander's youngest brother Walter)
-
Hi Sue,
Sorry to take so long to get back to you and to say thank you for the information you gave me. I would love to see the home of Adam and Elizabeth Sandilands. I will send you a private message with my email address and perhaps you can email a photo of their home. If you are unable to, it will not matter.
Although still interested in family research, I'm not searching as much. It's good when someone makes contact with me re my family tree as it revives my interest.
Thanks again and I wish you lots of success with your research.
Liz
-
Hi,
Fairly new to this website and have been researching my family history for several years!
Very interested to see the Sandilands postings.
Helen Sandilands was my Gt, Gt, Gt grandparent on my Mum’s side (she’s also called Helen, now 90!)
Helen Sandilands married William Leithhead in 1831 at Broughton.
Helen’s parents were Adam and Elizabeth (nee Dickson), married at Drumelzier in 1796.
As far as I can be sure, Adam’s parents were Thomas Sandilands and Marion (Stevenson), married 1766?, Crighton, Stow.
Marion’s parents were, I believe, John Stevenson and Helen (White), married 1750, Kirkettle, Lasswade.
Any further info anyone may have on this family line gratefully shared!
Thanks,
Shona
-
Hi Shona,
Lovely to hear from another cousin. Sorry I have taken so long to respond.
You will see from my previous postings from whom I descend on our Sandilands Family Tree. The Sandilands name always fascinated me as it was used repeatedly by successive generations as a middle name on my father's side of my family. In fact, he and his 6 siblings were only given Sandilands as a middle name, in memory of their grandmother Elizabeth Sandilands. It would seem that Sandilands had pride of place and went unchallenged.
When researching parents of Adam and Elizabeth (nee Dickson), I was never sure of their parentage. Below is an extract from correspondence with another researcher in this regard:
" ... I was at Register House on Tuesday and had a look for the birth of your Adam Sandilands (b.1777). As his oldest son was named Thomas, it is fairly certain that his father would be named Thomas, which was the strict naming pattern used by most families. I did not find a birth for Adam, but I did find a marriage for a Thomas Sandilands and Marion Stevenson in 1766 in the parish of Stow. Could they be the parents of Adam?
I have attached a copy. As you can see it appears to be a bit muddled as the initial entry has THOMAS SANDILANDS from the parish of STOW and Jean Rob from the parish of Borthwick. The name of Jean Rob has then been scored out and on the side the name MARRION STEVENSON from the parish of CRICHTON has been inserted. I think that this is plainly a mistake made by the Registrar as the following entry contains the name Jean Rob. Cautioners to the proclamation are given as, for him, WILLIAM STEVENSON, his master, and for her, ROBERT LEES, tenant in Brookhouse. As you can see, THOMAS was listed as a herd in HALTREE (my interpretation of the name, but I may be wrong). Perhaps Marion was related to William Stevenson who was Thomas's master.
I do not know if this Thomas and Marion are relevant to you, but I think that there is a strong possibility based on the fact that his name was Thomas and he was a herd in the parish of Stow. Also he was the only Thomas Sandilands that I could find for the period in question. ..."
Sorry I could not download above-mentioned marriage entry (perhaps you have already).
I attach, hopefully, a copy photo of the church where Adam and Elizabeth married (sent to me by Sue, another poster to this thread.)
You can view my family tree for further Sandilands information on the ancestry.co.uk site under "Rennie, McArthur and related families Tree". I notice they have free access over the holiday weekend. If you can't view, let me know and I will see what I can do to pass info to you.
You will see from the tree that ancestors went to Australia and I have been in contact with their Australian descendants researching our shared family.
Hope this helps a little.
Keep in touch.
Liz
-
Be very cautious about assuming that this couple were married in the kirk building. Just because they were married in the parish of Drumelzier does not mean that the wedding took place in the kirk. In fact, the probability is that it did not. The usual place for a wedding ceremony was the bride's home, or, if she had no parents or was married a long way from home, in the manse or in her employer's home. Kirk weddings were very much the exception rather than the rule until the last decade of the 19th century, when it began to become more popular to marry in a church, or in a hotel, restaurant or hall.
Church weddings were more common, but by no means universal, among adherents of the Roman Catholic, Episcopal and (after the 1840s) one or other of the free churches.
For my own tree, I have seen and transcribed the details of 881 marriages in Scotland between 1855 and 1890*. I looked more closely at the data, and only 30 (3.4%, or one in 29) of these couples were married in a church building: 13 in an Episcopal church, 10 in a Free church, one in a Roman Catholic church, and just 6 in a Church of Scotland parish kirk. That's fewer than 1%, or one wedding in 146, taking place in a parish kirk.
*Unfortunately the pre-1855 parish registers almost never state exactly where a wedding ceremony was held, so it is not possible to do a similar analysis of information from the 1790s.
Statistically speaking, I have to add the caveat that my sample of 881 marriages is not random, in that it consists entirely of people related to me. Someone with Irish ancestors, for instance, might have a higher proportion of Roman Catholics in their tree, so the results would look rather different, but it would still show only a tiny proportion of weddings being celebrated in a Church of Scotland parish kirk before the late 19th century.
-
Thank you, Forfarain. It was interesting to read your message and it shows you how careful we have to be with our assumptions.
Before reading your reply, I was puzzling over my ancestor Alexander Sandilands born in 1808 according to his death record and wondering why I cannot find his birth entry. To add to the confusion, his supposed brother Adam Sandilands is born May, 1809. Adam and other brothers are registered before and after 1808 but not Alexander. Why can't I find an birth entry for Alexander?
Regards.
LIz
-
Before reading your reply, I was puzzling over my ancestor Alexander Sandilands born in 1808 according to his death record
Does the death record specifically say that he was born in 1808, or does it give an age and a date of death? If the latter, the actual date of birth could be a few years before or after 1808.
If this is Alexander Sandilands who died in Edinburgh in 1875 aged 67, what this means is that the person who registered the death believed that he was 67. Assuming that this is accurate, he could have been born in 1807 or 1808, depending on whether he had had a birthday in 1875 before he died.
In 1851 he gave his age as 43, which implies a birth in 1807 or 1808
In 1861 he said 52, and in 1871 62, which implies a birth in 1808 or 1809.
So you have a three-year window when he could have been born.
and wondering why I cannot find his birth entry. To add to the confusion, his supposed brother Adam Sandilands is born May, 1809. Adam and other brothers are registered before and after 1808 but not Alexander. Why can't I find an birth entry for Alexander?
The obvious answer is that the baptism record (if it ever existed) did not survive. There could be umpteen reasons for this
- the parents omitted to have him baptised
- they had him baptised but omitted to ensure that a record was kept
- the minister omitted to tell the session clerk that he had baptised the child
- the session clerk omitted to record the baptism in the parish register
being just a few of the possible reasons.
If the death was registered by a near relative, and it names his parents, and there are baptisms of siblings in the right area at the right time, and an inconvenient gap just where Alexander ought to be, I think it's safe enough to assume that these are the correct parents.
-
Thank you, Forfarian, for your explanation. It all makes sense to me. Checked a broader window but no record of his birth. It is the Alexander Sandilands who died in Edinburgh, 1875, aged 67. His death record does not give the date of birth and there is a gap in the births of his siblings, where most likely Alexander fits. I'm happy go with the information I have that Alexander is with the right family.
Regards
Liz
-
I too am searching the surname Sandilands but basically the ones born in Cranston midlothian and East lothian
I have got as far back to Marion Sandilands born in Cranston and died in Dalkeith 1705-1783
I believe she married a Robert Dickson,some children found to union
I would be interested in any info on these Sandilands around this time
Thanks for any help gives