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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Perthshire => Topic started by: Eleesavet on Monday 08 November 10 21:21 GMT (UK)
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Does anyone know if there was a family of tinkers called McArthurs(MacArthurs) in Perthshire?
I thought I saw McArthurs listed as tinkers in one of my census searches at Perth local library, but I can't be sure. I was checking censuses going back to 1841 for St Martins/Cargill areas. My Aunt says she remembers a girl called McArthur who was from a tinker family in her class at school (Perth Northern District (?) late 1920s to early 1930s. She says that the family lived on a site near to where Inveralmond cottages once were.
I would be interested in the history of any McArthur tinkers.
Liz
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Hi Liz
There is this entry in 1901:
James Mcarthur 28, tinsmith, Camelon, Stirlingshire...age possibly wrong? Shows as father to the children
Mary Mcarthur 30, wife
Jane Mcarthur 15 b. Camelon, Stirlingshire
Cathrine Mcarthur 13, b. Auchterhouse, Forfarshire
David Mcarthur 11 b. Muir of Ord, Royshire
Peter Mcarthur 30, brother b. St Vigeans, Forfarshire
Address: Strolling Tinkers - Cargill, Perthshire
Also, found one more:
John Mcarthur 60, Travelling Tinsmith b. Arbroath, Forfarshire
Peter Mcarthur 21 Travelling Tinsmith
James Mcarthur 28 Travelling Tinsmith
Peter Mcarthur 30 Travelling Tinsmith
Jeannie Mcarthur 15
Catherine Mcarthur 13
Bella Mcarthur 6
Maggie Mcarthur 4
Address: On Road At Cronan, Coupar Angus
The nature of travelling people, these may have nothing to do with the McArthur family you refer to 20/30 years later.
Monica :)
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Hi Monica,
Thank you for taking the time to pass on these details.
I can go back to Donald (Daniel) McArthur and his wife Janet Alexander who were living in the area of Cargill, Perthshire. From the information I have, Donald was a forester. Their son John, from whom I descend, was a mason in that area.
I wonder if there is a family connection with the McArthurs you listed and those on my tree. What is interesting is the same names which occur in my family and those listed i.e James, David and Peter.
I shall make further enquires to see if I can make a connection. I will see if I can find strolling tinkers of the name McArthur going back to 1841.
Would you know of any website with information on Perthshire strolling tinkers? Would the death of STs be registered in the same way? Would they be found in the local graveyards?
This may be a very stupid point to make, but I will make it anyway, I take it that Scotland's tinkers have a different heritage/ancestry to that of Romany Gypsies. My understanding is that Scotland's tinkers are from displaced Scottish families who chose to travel from place to place, plying their trade, as opposed to settling in one place to make a living.
There were so many McArthurs in the Perthshire area. Is it possible that they all had a blood connection?
Liz
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Hi Liz
I remember my late father telling me he new of a tinker by the name of Mcgregor who stayed around the Stanley area and every year come April he would leave Stanley and walk to the Ullapool area, and make the return Journey around November.
also i Remember in the Sixties There was a Tinkers encampment at Inveralmond Just below the railway bridge I don't know any of the names but in the seventies and eighties I think as I was gone by then I think they were moved to permanent housing in hunters crescent muirton area's and also to the permanent camp at double dykes.
There was also a summer camp for tinkers at campsi linn area of stanley as a lot of them got work at sheilhill farm.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Liz
I am not familiar with Scottish travelling people history, sorry. Given you are looking at a specific area, this might be a good one perhaps to take to a local history group to see what they have for records and knowledge on the subject.
Monica
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Hi Liz
looking at your post again. if you have not read them can I suggest you read Jess Smith's autobiography it details her life as one of Scotlands travellers (Tinker) in one of her books she describes the burial of the Tinker King (will have to check book if I have used correct description) but he was buried in a secluded glen somewhere in Perthshire not a conventional burrial ground.
There is also a list of books here that may be worth looking at and give you some pointers.
http://www.visitdunkeld.com/scottish-tinkers.htm
http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-464-782-C
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi Liz
I am not familiar with Scottish travelling people history, sorry. Given you are looking at a specific area, this might be a good one perhaps to take to a local history group to see what they have for records and knowledge on the subject.
Monica
Hi Monica,
Thank you for your reply and what a great idea to contact a local history group, I most likely will do that.
Liz
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Hi Liz
looking at your post again. if you have not read them can I suggest you read Jess Smith's autobiography it details her life as one of Scotlands travellers (Tinker) in one of her books she describes the burial of the Tinker King (will have to check book if I have used correct description) but he was buried in a secluded glen somewhere in Perthshire not a conventional burrial ground.
There is also a list of books here that may be worth looking at and give you some pointers.
http://www.visitdunkeld.com/scottish-tinkers.htm
http://www.scran.ac.uk/database/record.php?usi=000-000-464-782-C
Yours Aye
BruceL
Hi Bruce,
Thank you for taking the time to reply and for the information provided in both replies. They are appreciated.
Having been brought up in Perth, reading of the place names you mention made be feel quite nostalgic.
I too remember the encampment at Inveralmond but was not aware of the other two encampments. It must have been difficult for travelling families to make the transition to a settled lifestyle and permanent housing. I regret that as a Perthite I was not more aware of their history and the richness of their culture. But I look forward to correcting that by starting to read the books you refer me to, who knows I might even find a few ancestors.
Thank you for referring me to those websites.
I may also contact a local history society, as suggested by Monica.
Yours Aye,
Liz
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Liz
When I was a laddie, there were a family of travellers who lived "doon the Tay Watter"in Perth. There were Lizzie. Davie and, intermittently, their son, Major. We knew them well. They also camped with us at Luncarty, Stanley and Blairgowrie. Among others that I remember are Townsends, McPhees and Lowthers.
If you have not yet done so, you might want to find a book called "The Book of Sandy Stewart". It chronicles a period of Sandy and Peggy Stewart"s life. If memory serves, the book came out of thesis research. I do have a copy of the book, so if it is unavailable to you for some reason I could loan it to you.
Just incidentally , in reading novels by Scottish authors I notice that many words in seemingly daily use in Scotland come from the Cant. That was an arcane form of Scots used among travellers.
I hope some of this is helpful.
Best wishes
Harry, Mink and proud!
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You may also be interested in the book <i>The summer walkers: travelling people and pearl-fishers in the Highlands of Scotland</i> by Timothy Neat (Edinburgh: Canongate, 1996 ISBN 9780862415761 hbk) ISBN 978184158199 (pbk Edinburgh: Birlinn, 2002)
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Thank you both, Harry and eilthireach, for your replies and for your recommendations on further reading.
I had forgotten about this thread so it was good to be reminded.
Thank you for your kind offer, Harry, to loan me your book. I found it in hardcover at Amazon.co.uk. Couldn't quite believe the price of new copy - £3,917.35; used - £21.58.
I would love to say that I have followed through on everyone's suggestions for reading and research but I haven't as yet. One of these days but for now I will have to be content with internet searches.
Luncarty, Stanley, Blairgowrie, Townsends, McPhees ..., familiar names but the best is 'doon the Tay Watter'. I live in Greece and hearing these names, expressions helps me keep my identity!
Liz
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Och, shannis, shannis Liz.
I just happen to have a special sale on this week. "The Book of Sandy Stewart" is free. I'll take your word as a fellow traveller that you will pay the postage back if you want to.
Gies us an anonymous post office box number in wherever the hell you are in Helena and I'll send you the book. Amazon.com can sook me' jeer.
I'm a wee bit from the Tay Watter these days, in retirement in Canada. (Isn't it strange that the problems one associates with native soil turn out to be jist in ones heid?)
Let me know.
Awrabest
Harry
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Hi Harry,
Thanks for your generous offer to send me the book, I thought about it but decided to wait until I next visit Perth. Perth Library has a copy. I saw it listed on their online catalogue.
Liz
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Och, shannis, shannis Liz.
I just happen to have a special sale on this week. "The Book of Sandy Stewart" is free. I'll take your word as a fellow traveller that you will pay the postage back if you want to.
Gies us an anonymous post office box number in wherever the hell you are in Helena and I'll send you the book. Amazon.com can sook me' jeer.
I'm a wee bit from the Tay Watter these days, in retirement in Canada. (Isn't it strange that the problems one associates with native soil turn out to be jist in ones heid?)
Let me know.
Awrabest
Harry
[/quote made me lol not heard it fir ages sook ma jeer
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Fair enough, wee manishee! :)
Awrabest.
Harry
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Hello Harry the travellers you are talking about are my family the man major is my great uncle and my grandad is his brother john my mother June would very much like 2 know your second name and any information on her granny and grandad Lizzie and Davie
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Hello, Bigyin
Davie and Lizzie were friends of my family. Johnny and Major were brothers but Major was the favourite son. Lizzie and Davie lived doon the Tay and would stop in on their way home to have a we drappie o' the VP. If I remember right, Johnny was a short, blonde and a good kid. Major was dark, handsome and had teeth that made him look like a movie star. I remember, with great regret, an incident at a campsite where Davie lost the rag at Johnny. It was probably at Luncarty because I remember my Daddy fishing the Tay and pulling in a big salmon, with the toffs standing on the bridge saying things like "Jolly good show, old fellow," while my dad was muttering, "f**k, off, ya' cunts, you'll scare the fish."
I have good memories of Lizzie and Davie. I have good memories of Johnny and Major. We were close, and Major, (sort of ) married into my family. I'd be more than happy to Let June (Wee Joon) know what little I can tell her, but this is a rather too public forum. If you can send me a private message, I'd be right back to you.
Awrabest
Harry
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Hi Harry and Bigyin
Bigyin needs to have 3 posts before you can use the personal message if he just sticks a couple of replies to you post that should see it sorted one word replies will do.
Yours Aye
BruceL
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Hi harry not been on this in a long time if honest i totally forgot i contacted you askin about my grandad john and uncle major if ur still on this could you reply so i can start talking 2 you and hopefully give me some information on my grandad and his family as i barely know nothing about his young life and either does my mother wee joon haha. Hope ur well and hope 2 hear back from u also
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Hi Liz,
I recently started doing my family tree and stumbled across this. My family descends back to McArthur Tinkers / Travellers in the Dundee/Tayside area through my Grandfather. My Grandfather Peter McLaren's [1930-2003] mother was Isabella (Bella) McArthur [1894-1960], whose father was James McArthur [approx 1865 - unknown]. I have only done so much digging, but I do have the original certificates for Isabella ... etc.
On the other side of the fence, my Grandfather's father Peter McLaren (senior) [approx 1896 - unknown] and his parents John McLaren [approx 1874 - unknown] and Betsy McLaren [approx 1868 - unknown] were also Tinkers / Travellers.
I have logged all this on "ancestry" along with photos ... etc, and can invite you in if you forward on your email address.
Regards
Steven
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"There is nothing older unless the hills, McArthur & the devil!" ;D
Skoosh.
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Hi Steven,
Thank you for posting. I am sorry I didn't reply sooner but I was busy with other things and it slipped my mind.
I don't know if there is a connection between our McArthurs but I would be interested in seeing your tree so I will send my e-mail address by private message.
Regards
Liz
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"There is nothing older unless the hills, McArthur & the devil!" ;D
;D Aye, true dat...
Not come across any travellers in my McArthurs - they all hail from Aberdeenshire, farmers and crofters most. Although I do have travellers on my maternal grandfather's side, hop pickers around Kent and Sussex in the 1800s, likely of Irish descent.
Ruth
(McArthur and proud of it ;D)