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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Pembrokeshire => Topic started by: martin40 on Monday 08 November 10 21:50 GMT (UK)
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Hi Everyone. Im hope someone maybe able to give me a head start. I am trying to find out some information regarding my great great grandfather as thats where the trail has hit a dead end...my last point of reference is my Great grandfather Mr John Williams born 1862 ish in Narbeth Pembrokeshire, Wales and he was an employee of GWR railways...I would be very grateful of any info as to his parents and place and date of birth and also any info on his role within the industry. plse email me on (*) Thank you
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Hi Martin40 and welcome to rootschat
Please don't be put off posting again by the moderators intervention, we all make errors :)
Do you have John Williams on the 1871 census?
maidmarion :)
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I am trying to find out some information regarding my great great grandfather as thats where the trail has hit a dead end...my last point of reference is my Great grandfather Mr John Williams born 1862 ish in Narbeth Pembrokeshire, Wales he was an employee of GWR railways...I would be very grateful of any info as to his parents and place and date of birth
Hello & welcome Martin40.
Could this be a possibility for your Gt. G/father John Williams with his parents :-\
1881 c RG11/5412/38/30
28 Waterloo, Pembroke St. Mary
John WILLIAMS Head 49 Llanver Mongomeryshire Railway Engine Driver
Mary wife 45 Trefryglwys Montgomery
JOHN 19 (1862) Llanidloes, Carmarthen Railway Engine Fireman
Edward 18 Trefryglwys Blacksmith
Thomas 15 Tenby Railway Engine Cleaner
William 13 St Mary's Pembroke
Richard 11 "
Evan 8 "
Edwin 6 "
George 4 "
Frederick 3 "
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Good Morning...
Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it. I believe he was actually a Guard to be honest and he did Marry a lady called Mary Perrin but that was once he moved to the London area as far as I believe. Really appreciate your time and effort on this. The area I am most stuck on at the moment is finding his Parents..any help would be appreciated. Thank you all so far !!! Martin
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Hi Martin
Can i suggest you start a Thread on the Pembrokeshire Board.
There is a Member who is very helpful.
Also,getting the marriage cert for John would give you Dad`s name.
Kind Regards
Omega
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Good Morning...
Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it. I believe he was actually a Guard to be honest and he did Marry a lady called Mary Perrin but that was once he moved to the London area as far as I believe. Really appreciate your time and effort on this. The area I am most stuck on at the moment is finding his Parents..any help would be appreciated. Thank you all so far !!! Martin
Hi
Have you confirmed your great grandmother's name from your grandfather or grandmother's birth cert or other source?
You would then be able to look for John Williams marriage and order the cert as suggested by Omega.
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No need to start a new thread- I'll move this one to PEMBROKESHIRE board now.
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.......................Mr John Williams born 1862 ish in Narbeth Pembrokeshire, Wales and he was an employee of GWR railways...
Martin (40)
Given that the ’81 is your family I would make the following observations.
1. It is lightly that John Williams would have worked/driven for what would become out of the many private rail companies the G.W.R.(Gods Wonderful Railway) The last time I researched an engine driver (one Thomas Oriel) the records where held at the National Archives Kew under
RAIL ~ British Transport Historical Records. A quick look now reveals thousands of references.
2. As the private companies where taken over and grew so the social side of the records became part of the Union records, who I believe may still hold information, but how early it is would take some research.
3. Turning to the family pre 1881. The period of the childrens baptisms was a period of transition here in Pembroke. The new town of Pembroke Dock to support the new secure HM Dockyard was began in 1814 under a different name changing its name to Pembroke Dock in 1817. The area known as Paterchurch given over by the Meyrick family was part of the Parish of Pembroke St Mary. The 1840’s saw a huge building programe of Chapels and a parish church to be known as Pembroke Dock St John. The parish began services in 1844 for baptisms, but would not be fully recognized for over another 20 odd years at about the time that the town of Pembroke Dock gained its own full status.
4. This then is the reason that John & Mary reside in the town of Pembroke Dock but appear to live in the parish of Pembroke Town St Mary. The district of Waterloo is a residential/industrial area of “The Dock” or “P.D.” and is but a short walk to the local railway station via the level crossing and bird cage walk, a location that has the honour of being the 1st in the world to have a police chase enacted on film. This film amd location still exists.
5. Richard Williams aged 11 was baptised at Pembroke Dock St John in the year of 1883, Richard was aged 4 yrs old at the time of his baptism. I have found a William Williams baptised in 1868 at Pembroke Dock St John and would hazard a guess this is their eldest Dock son shown in 1881. There are a number of Thomas Williams baptised at Tenby, but I would suspect that your Thomas was baptised at Tenby in Liberty St Mary’s on the 09 Oct 1864.
6. I wonder if John Williams was the engine driver on the night Sgt Horton fell to his death from the train between the Dock and Tenby in 1867, through no fault of the train staff I hasten to add, but forms one item in my talks on Pembrokeshire related Military headstones.
I trust the above is of some assistance and interest to your research.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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May I speculate as a research starting point for the parents of John Williams aged 49, one looks at the baptism of one John Williams in 1829 to Thomas & Susanah Williams at Trefryglwys, followed perhaps by the mrge of a John Williams to a possible Mary Matthews in 1859.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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I believe he was actually a Guard to be honest and he did marry a lady called Mary Perrin but that was once he moved to the London area.
The area I am most stuck on at the moment is finding his Parents..any help would be appreciated.
Hi Martin40,
I can’t see an obvious marriage for John WILLIAMS to Mary PERRIN
1891/1901 transcript census Buckingham
John WILLIAMS bn 1862 Narberth, Pembroke
1891c Signalman GW Railway 1901c Railway Official
Mary bn 1865 Buckingham
Unable to check original census details did your John WILLIAMS & Mary
have any children possible names from 1891/1901c Buckingham
Annie 1888, Ethel 1889, Margaret 1892, John Ferrars 1897
1881 census have these two John WILLIAMS born Pembroke but unfortunately not with their parents ???
RG11/5340/48/7
John WILLIAMS Lodger bn 1861 Narberth, Pembroke Railway Porter
RG11/2604/69/14
John WILLIAMS Boarder bn 1862 Pembroke Railway Plater
There is however Mary PERRIN living in Buckingham
1881 RG11/1460/76/5
Mary K PERRIN bn 1865 Slough Buckingham Dressmaker
parents John PERRIN (Gardener) & Mary A
As mentioned previously obtaining the marriage certficiate would give you John's fathers name and occuptation
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Hi
Further to the info Ladyhawk gave.On the 1891 Mary states she was from Slough.
1901
John & Mary have Mary`s Mum,Mary Perrin living with them.The writing on the original is bad,i cant make out where Mum Mary came from.
Omega
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1901
John & Mary have Mary`s Mum, Mary Perrin living with them.
The writing on the original is bad,i cant make out where Mum Mary came from.
If this is the same Mary PERRIN the 1881 census gives
Mary A PERRIN born 1825 Kingston, Kent
John PERRIN born 1822 Kingsgate, Gloucester occ. Gardener
there are numerous John WILLIAMS birth entries
registration district Narberth The district Narberth spans the boundaries of the counties of Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire;
dates 1861 - 1864 on FreeBMD
www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
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Hi
I think mother's place of birth in 1901 also reads Kingston. The last column says Surr, short for Surrey.
John Williams has Pemb written in the last column too.
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Am I missing something here. There are no John Williams baptised at Narberth between 1850 and 1878, although there are a number of John Williams whose birth/baptism took place in one of the many parishes covered by the Narberth Registration District around 1861-62.
I had hoped to prove that John Williams baptised 1862 at Begelly, a short distance from Kilgetty Railway Station was the son of John & Mary Williams but that answer will have to wait a while.
Since we know that the ’81 children shown as born in the parish of Pembroke St Mary who weren’t but baptised in the parish of Pembroke Dock St John are to John & Mary Williams, then by association John baptised 1862 aged 19 in 1881 was more than lightly baptised at Llandeilo Carm, thus negating any reference to Narberth on two counts, making John & Mary Williams of Montgomeryshire John’s parents.
Mind if I am missing something, not for the first time, I will be more than happy to stand corrected.
Rgds
Orielbenfro
ORIEL a welsh window on a surname
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Orielbenfro,
Apologies if confusion caused have amended my post should have added Narberth Registration District - The district Narberth spans the boundaries of the counties of Carmarthenshire and Pembrokeshire.
Looking back over the post Martin40 has not said for definate that the John WILLIAMS on 1881c born Llandiloes Carmarthen occ. Railway Engine Fireman to parents John & Mary is the one he is looking for (post no. 2)
Thank you for your response. I really appreciate it. I believe he was actually a Guard to be honest and he did Marry a lady called Mary Perrin but that was once he moved to the London area as far as I believe. Really appreciate your time and effort on this. The area I am most stuck on at the moment is finding his Parents..any help would be appreciated. Thank you all so far !!! Martin
I have posted other entries from 1881c, one for a John WILLIAMS born 1861 Narberth, Pembroke occupation RAILWAY PORTER . This John WILLIAMS could possibly be the same one as on 1891/1901 census (see post no. 9 & 10)
As Martin40 says he is stuck on finding John's parents I'm assuming he has not yet got the marriage certificate for John WILLIAMS to Mary PERRIN, as this would at least give him his father's name and occupation.
I have done various combination of searches on FreeBMD, used the date range 1881 to 1891 but I'm afraid I have come up with nothing :-\
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Good Morning Everyone,
I cannot believe how helpful everyone has been on this thread. I am very touched by it...
Ladyhawk. Thank you very much. you have found them ...1891/1901 Census in Buckinghamshire is indeed the right people John Williams married Mary K Perrin and lived in Slough....Could anyone shed any light whom there Parents where ???? If that info is available.
John Williams was a railway porter / guard and Mary was a dress maker.
Everyone on here is brill, thanks very much
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1891/1901 Census in Buckinghamshire is indeed the right people John Williams married Mary K Perrin and lived in Slough....
Could anyone shed any light whom there Parents where ???? If that info is available.
John Williams was a railway porter / guard and Mary was a dress maker.
Hello again Martin40
This looks to be Mary K PERRIN with her parents John PERRIN & Mary A
1881 RG11/1460/76/5
Chandos St., Upton Cum Chalvey, Buckinghamshire
John PERRIN 59 Kingsgate, Gloucester Gardener
Mary A 56 Kingston, Kent
Thomas 18 Lambeth Carpenter
MARY K 16 bn 1865 Slough Buckingham Dressmaker
Frederick C 14 Slough, Buckingham Messenger
Birth FreeBMD http://www.freebmd.org.uk/cgi/search.pl
Jun q 1864 Eton 3a 390
Mary Kezia PERRIN
As for John WILLIAMS parents not so easy, what are you thoughts about the 1881 cenuses posted and the info. from Orielbenfro
Do you have any idea where John WILLIAMS & Mary K PERRIN married ?
They must have married after 1881 census and before 1891 census. As Mary's mother also called Mary PERRIN was living with them in 1901that confirms her surname but as hard as I try have not found a marriage match anywhere with those surnames ???
The only other thought and it's just a thought what if Mary K PERRIN was widowed and she married John WILLIAMS using that married name ???
If you could find their marriage and get the certficiate that would certainly confirm John & Mary's father's names you could look for him on the 1871 census, there are so many John WILLIAMS bn abt. 1862 in Pembroke on 1871 census
Did John Williams and Mary Perrin have any children ? This could help narrow the marriage date.
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Mary K PERRIN with her parents
1871c Eton
John PERRIN 49
Mary A 47
William J 13
Thomas 8
MARY K 6
Frederick C 4
1861c Lambeth Kennington second
John PERRIN 39
Mary A 36
William J 3 (1858)
James 0
Could be their marriage FreeBMD
Dec q 1854 Lambeth (names on same page)
John PERRIN
Mary A BODIAM
Extracted IGI marriage
John PERRIN
Mary Ann BODIAM
7/11/1854 St. Barnabas, South Kennington, Surrey
Extracted IGI christenings parents John PERRIN & Mary Ann
Henry PERRIN
ch. 13/4/1856 St. Barnabas, South Kennington
William John PERRIN
ch. 11/10/1857 St. Barnabas, South Kennington
James PERRIN
bn 28/5/1860
ch.19/8/1860 St. Barnabas, South Kennington, Surrey
Mary Keziah PERRIN
ch. 24/7/1864 Upton Cum Chavley Buckingham
Frederick Charles PERRIN
ch. 23/6/1867 Upton Cum Chavley
**ADDED**
Mary Ann BODIAM parents William & Sarah
IGI extracted christenings
Kingsdown (Near Sevenoaks) Kent
parents William BODIAM & Sarah
Elizabeth BODIAM 3/2/1822
MARY ANN 10/10/1824
Sarah 4/10/1827
William Thomas 28/3/1828 & 11/5/1828
Eliza 25/12/1830
Frances 10/11/1833
John 1/1/1837
Emma 27/10/1839
Matthew 24/7/1842
Mark 24/7/1842
IGI extracted marriage
William BODIAN to Sarah Ann VERELS
1/7/1821 Kingsdown (Near Sevenoaks) Kent
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Good afternoon Everyone, I am really sorry but I totally forgot i had started a thread here until recently watching a DNA documentary on TV. Thank you all so much for your support thus far with all your knowledge and access to certain sites. My Great Grand Father John Williams did work on the GWR railway as a plate footman and his Wife Mary Perrin was indeed a dress maker. I understand that they may have had up to 7 or 8 children one of which being my Grand Father George Llewellyn Williams who was an Engineer born 13 Jan 1903 in Slough, Berks and his son, my Father John Llewellyn Williams born 26th Dec 1936 - died 7th Jan 2000. I would dearly love to find where my Great Grandfather and my Great Grandmother are buried because i assume it would have been in the Slough, Berkshire areas. Thanks everyone, Martin Williams
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My Great Grand Father John Williams did work on the GWR railway as a plate footman and his Wife Mary Perrin was indeed a dress maker.
I understand that they may have had up to 7 or 8 children one of which being my Grand Father George Llewellyn Williams who was an Engineer born 13 Jan 1903 in Slough, Berks
It looks as if they had at least 8 children and 1 died details from GRO indexes showing mmn
John William bn 1863 Narberth South Wales Pembrokeshire, occ GWR Singalman
wife Mary 47, Slough Berkshire plus 5 children
1911 census https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:X7VL-2RZ
Anne Elena WILLIAMS mmn PERRIN
1887 S Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 03A Page 622
Death Sep 1894 Eton 3a 320
Annie Elena WILLIAMS age 7
Ethel WILLIAMS mmn PERRIN
1889 M Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 03A Page 646
Margaret Lilian WILLIAMS mmn PERRIN
1891 D Quarter in ETON, BUCKS Volume 03A Page 647
John Ferrars WILLIAMS mmn PERRIN
1896 D Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 03A Page 710
Henry Rees WILLIAMS mmn PERIN
1901 S Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 03A Page 830
George Llewellyn WILLIAMS mmn PERRIN
1903 M Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 03A Page 867
Gwendoline Minnie WILLIAMS mmn PERRIN
1903 M Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 03A Page 867
Cecilia Alice Mary WILLIAMS mmn PERRIN
1906 J Quarter in ETON BUCKS Volume 03A Page 926
I would dearly love to find where my Great Grandfather and my Great Grandmother are buried because i assume it would have been in the Slough, Berkshire areas.
Mary Keziah WILLIAMS died age 92 (born c 1864)
GRO Reference: 1956 S Quarter in ETON Volume 06A Page 270
Have you obtained the above death certificate? This would give an address and the name of the informant. If not, and you want to obtain a copy you can order a PDF copy of the entry from the GRO which will cost £7
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp - you need to register
Might this be a possibility for John's death :-\
Mar 1945 Eton 3a 1759
John WILLIAMS age 82 (born c 1863)
From find a grave 2 cemeteries in Slough, Berkshire did a quick search on both but nothing came up ???
Slough Cemetery and Crematorium
Stoke Road Slough, Berkshire, SL2 5AX
and
St Mary Churchyard
Church Street Slough, Berkshire, SL1 1PJ
EDIT to add
You could try these
4 cemeteries in Eton, Berkshire.
Eton College Chapel
Eton Parish Cemetery
St John the Baptist Churchyard
St John the Evangelist Cemetery
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Hi All, i am still trying to find the final resting place of my Great Grandparents. John Williams born Narbeth Wales and Mary Keziah Williams nee Perrin both I believe to have passed in or near Slough in 1945 and 1956 respectively. If anyone can help or has access to this records I would be very much appreciated. thanks Martin John Williams born Sept 1968, Margate, Kent