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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: fishytales on Wednesday 10 November 10 10:28 GMT (UK)
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Hi, does anyone know anything about Judith Butcher born c 1797 in Ashburnham/Burwash/locality, please?Her illegitimate son James was born in 1814 in Burwash. Judith was a servant. The reputed father was Bertram Ashburnham (4th Earl) but that would be tricky to prove!
Hope someone out there can help
Many thanks
fishytales
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Hi fishytales,
I cant find Judiths Christening but hopefully someone else can :)
Hopefully I am not going over what you already have but it will help others trying to find info for her.
James BUTCHER, Baptised 31 July 1814, St Bartholomew, Burwash, Sussex
Mother JUDITH, Servant, Abode Burwash
(Source FreeREG)
Marriage;
Judith BUTCHER
Henry PETTIT, 14 April 1818, Wellingh, Burwash, Sussex
(Source IGI + Familysearch Pilot)
Unless I have got this wrong she seems to be known as JULIA after this ???;
1861 Julia is a Widow living in Burwash with Children still at home;
Jabis 1847
Levi 1848
She is born c 1797, Ashburham and a Housekeeper to Henry COLLINS
Marriage Reg from FreeBMD;
Henry COLLINS, December 1864, Ticehurst, 2b 145
On the same page is JULIA PETTET
Marriage Cert will provide her Fathers name ;)
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Familysearch Pilot has the second Marriage :)
Henry COLLINS, Father Henry Collins
Julia PETTET, Father CHARLES BUTCHER
30 October 1864, Burwash, Sussex
Now we just need a Christening c 1797 under Judith/Julia.
Trish :)
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FreeREG has these 2 Christenings in Burwash;
CHARLES Butcher 17 July 1810
REBEKAH Butcher 03 October 1813
Parents CHARLES and MARY Butcher
Now Charles could be a Sibling of Judith/Julia or even her Parents still having Children.
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Thanks Trish, I had been told some time ago that Judith was probably the daughter of Charles Butcher and Mary Clark, but their marriage was well after Judith's approximate birth. For that reason, I need to get the info from the parish register.You have been a great help,thank you.
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Someone has a Tree for Charles c 1810 as above.
Parents CHARLES Butcher and Mary CLARK
Siblings;
JUDITH, 1801-1886
REBEKAH 1813
Married Elizabeth CHAPMAN, 28 May 1833, Brede, Sussex
Died 1872, Young, NSW, Australia
(My area!)
Now there is a Submitted Record of Charles/Mary Marrying 1809 on the IGI
Tree has date of 12 May 1800 Ashburnham
Maybe Judith was born before the Marriage and is under Clark?
Census has her born in the range of 1795-1801
Off to bed for me,
Hopefully someone has access to Parish Registers and the little elves will work whilst I am asleep.
Trish :)
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You are a star; have a good sleep!
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Hi fishytales
May have found Judith but a bit later than you expect
Judith Butcher baptised at Ashburnham, on 28 January 1801 to Charles and Mary Butcher
Kerry :)
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Thank you so much for that,you are very kind. Did you find it in the parish registers?
This means that she was only 13 when her son James was born.Poor girl!
Thanks again
fishytales
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Excellent Kerry :)
Then the later date of birth on Census entries was correct!
I told you the elves would come out ;D
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if you are trying to prove the father of James i would suggest you look at overseers records to see if there was a bastardry bond in place for the reputed faterh to pay towards his upkeep also if you can try to see the original PR entry as the clerk may have scribbled something extra in the margin re the childs father :)
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also did the Earl leave a will perhaps he made provision for his illigitmate son
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James seems to be a Ag Lab all his life and ends up in the Workhouse in 1881 in Sunbridge, Kent.
So if the Earl was his Father it does not look like he provided for him :-\
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maybe not but there is always hope :)
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True :)
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A bastardy bond would only be in place if Judith and/or her family made a claim against the Earl.I was informed that the Earl had tried to take the baby and failed, so the family would not have involved him.
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Thank you so much for that,you are very kind. Did you find it in the parish registers?
This means that she was only 13 when her son James was born.Poor girl!
Thanks again
fishytales
this came from the parish registers on database with sussex family history group.
I like Trish's description of me as an elf ;D
Kerry
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WEeeeelllllllll I think a picture would show if you were elf-like or not!!
Thank you for the info re the parish register. I guess Judith was born in 1800,daughter of Charles.The marriage cert of Henry Collins and Julia shows her father as Charles. It just arrived in the post
thanks agian kerry
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A bastardy bond would only be in place if Judith and/or her family made a claim against the Earl.I was informed that the Earl had tried to take the baby and failed, so the family would not have involved him.
no a bastardry bond may have been in place if Judith claimed off the parish for his upkeep the overseers would not want to pay for a chld if they did not have to and would have made every effort to trace the father.
if the Earl tried to take the baby there may be some paperwork relating to this
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Thanks,I think a visit to Sussex is needed, to sort out all of these questions. A good look at all relevant paperwork would be a good idea !
Thanks everyone for all the help
fishytales
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Someone has a Tree for Charles c 1810 as above.
Parents CHARLES Butcher and Mary CLARK
Siblings;
JUDITH, 1801-1886
REBEKAH 1813
Married Elizabeth CHAPMAN, 28 May 1833, Brede, Sussex
Died 1872, Young, NSW, Australia
(My area!)
Now there is a Submitted Record of Charles/Mary Marrying 1809 on the IGI
Tree has date of 12 May 1800 Ashburnham
Maybe Judith was born before the Marriage and is under Clark?
Census has her born in the range of 1795-1801
Off to bed for me,
Hopefully someone has access to Parish Registers and the little elves will work whilst I am asleep.
Trish :)
Marriage of Charles to Mary Clark on the Sussex Marriage Index is 12 May 1800 in Ashburnham.
Judith could have been born before and simply baptised after they married or she could just have been 13! when her son born :o
Kerry
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FreeREG has these 2 Christenings in Burwash;
CHARLES Butcher 17 July 1810
REBEKAH Butcher 03 October 1813
Parents CHARLES and MARY Butcher
Now Charles could be a Sibling of Judith/Julia or even her Parents still having Children.
I can't find any other children baptised to Charles and Mary in Ashburnham so it looks like they may have moved. I'll check burwash for signs of any others.
Kerry
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Can confirm the two as above but no others.
Also added to James baptism in 1814, it has occupation of Judith as servant.
Kerry
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Crikey Charles and Mary got about a bit!
I have checked the marriage index again and there are no other Charles marrying a Mary in the locality in that time frame.
Have found a further two baptisms:
Penhurst (just up the road from Ashburnham)
Hannah baptised 19 December 1802 to Charles and Mary
Dallington (just down the road from Burwash)
Sarah baptised 19 January 1806 to Charles and Mary
Kerry
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Thank you Kerry, I have to say I think it looks like Judith was 13 when James was born.Perhaps she was working as a servant for the Ashburnham Earls. These things happened a lot and the 4th Earl (Bertram) would have been about 17 at the time.
Judith and brother Charles are accounted for but I am still trying to find out what happened to Rebekah born in 1813.If she married at usual age, then it's before civil reg, so won't get a marriage cert.
thanks again, fishytales
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Just got that about Hannah and Sarah- great work thanks Kerry.That's filled in the gaps between some of the births.
fishytales
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Hi everyone!!
I'm from Australia and I'm researching my family. I've managed to get all the way back to Charles Butcher and Mary Clark. I can go back further with the Butcher family but can find nothing about Mary Clark. I don't even know when she was born. Does anyone know anything about her or any suggestions?
Tigerprawn.