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If you've reached the end of the line (for the moment) with your own research, or just fancy a diversion ... then the 2005 Rootschat Challenge could be just for you!
I've selected an individual ENTIRELY AT RANDOM - ie I have no connection to this person in my tree. I've checked on the surname interest table, and no one has declared this surname in their own tree.
So what's the idea?
Well, the collective wisdom of Rootschatters is to be pitted against the censuses, bmd info and other resources to COMPILE A FAMILY HISTORY OF THIS MAN, with as much information and detail as we can muster.
Anyone can contribute anything to the debate - however small or however detailed. No prizes, but ... wouldn't it be nice if some soul searching on Google for this chap sudddenly chanced upon this thread? :)
Your April 2005 Rootchat Challenge is:
Abraham BLAND, shown in the 1881 census as living in Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, born 1875.
Away you go! (And I haven't checked, so lets hope he doesn't die in 1882! ;))
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I'll start with the easy bit :D
His parents were:
John BLAND, a gardener, b Esholt, York (b 1817)
Eliza BLAND,, b Barnsley, York (b 1837)
He had siblings named:
John(b 1870), William (b 1871), Frank (b 1874), Arthur (b 1877) & Eliza A. (b 1878)
All except Eliza A. shown as being b. Sale, Cheshire.
RG11 3506 fo56 pg43
(Source: 1881 Census, FamilySearch website)
Paul.. What a good idea for a challenge. Well done! Perhaps next time, you can start with my elusive ggg grandfather ;)
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By 1891 his father was a landscape gardener...
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"Sale is bisected in a roughly north to south direction by the Roman Watling Street, which, today, as Cross Street and Washway Road, forms the A56 trunk route between Manchester and Chester...
Sale lies on the former Manchester, South Junction and Altrincham railway line which reached the town as early as 1849, linking it to Manchester. The A56 runs in a straight line for over two miles through Sale. In Roman times Watling Street was a part of the route from Mamucium (Manchester) to Deva (Chester). Until the 1930s, the area to the west of this road was known as Ashton-on-Mersey, whilst that to the east constituted Sale and Sale Moor."
Taken from: http://www.personal.u-net.com/~luso/sale1.htm
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This is my bit
1891 cencus
RG12/2825
Folio 104
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Bland, Abraham 16 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale Labourer
Bland, Arthur 15 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale
Bland, Eliza 55 Barnsley, Yorkshire Wife Sale
Bland, Eliza 13 Sale, Cheshire Daughter Sale
Bland, Elizabeth 9 Sale, Cheshire Daughter Sale
Bland, Frank 17 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale Under gardener
Bland, John 74 Esholt, Yorkshire Head Sale Landscape gardener
Bland, John 21 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale Railway clerk
Bland, William 20 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale Under gardener
---------------------------
Joe
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He seems to still be living at home in Sale in 1901.....with both his parents still alive and masquerading under his middle name of Lionel.
On freeBMD I found:
Births Mar 1875 Bland Abraham Lionel G Altrincham 8a 182
Sale registers in the altrincham district.
Emily
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Phew! At least he's still alive, then!
:)
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Name Abraham
Gender male
Origin Hebrew
Meaning father of a multitude
Similiar Names Abram, Avraham, Avram, Avrom, Abe, Abie, Abra, Ibrahim, Braham, Bram, Abramo, Abran, Abramio
from: http://baby-names.adoption.com/search/Abraham.html
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Yes he's living at home with his parents at 117 Washway Road, Sale.
He's become a Railway Fireman.
His Father John is retired
Eliza, his mother doesn't work
Brother John is a Railway Clerk
Brother Arthur is a day gardner
Sister Amy E H is a dressmaker.
Genni
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can I play devils advocate ;D
it has been assumed that Eliza is his mother. But we have to consider the possibility of this being a second marriage. :) :)
Linda
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Linda - you devil! :)
But of course, you are right to alert us to this possibility...
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Hmm....in the 1871 census, there seems to be a Bland family living in Sale with parents John and Eliza and two boys John and William, but the parents are transcribed as coming from Cork!!
Cork...York? Does anyone have access to the image?....its Rg10 piece 3684
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Hi,
In 1871 the family are in Sale
John Bland 48 market gardener b Ersholt CORK !!!
Eliza 34 b Barnsley CORK !!!
John 1 b Sale
William 2mths b Sale
Can't read the name of the road I'll leave that to someone else
Sue
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Esholt seems to be in Leeds - where's JillJ when you need her? :)
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Have we noticed how the age gap between John and Eliza has crept up from 14 years in 1871 to 19 years in 1891?
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There is a marriage for an Abraham Bland in Leeds in 1902, maybe he went back to his roots ???
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It appears Lionel may have gone to Canada. He enlisted in the Canadian Infantry (Saskatchewan Regiment) as Lionel Gilpin Bland Service No: 907428.
Private with the 28th Bn.
Died 22nd August 1917
Son of the late John and Eliza Bland, of 117, Washway Rd., Sale, Cheshire, England.
VIMY MEMORIAL, Pas de Calais, France
Genni
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BLAND family motto
Sperate et virite fortes
"Hope and live boldly"
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I'm getting carried away here!
Current use :
Room Service Manchester - Is this your business?
Email: No email listed
Website: No website listed
Address: 117 Washway Road
Sale, Cheshire M33 7TY
Map: View map and directions
Telephone: 01619629191
Business Type: Accommodation Booking Agencies
I haven't tried ringing them! ;D
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Hi,
In 1871 the family are in Sale
John Bland 48 market gardener b Ersholt CORK !!!
Eliza 34 b Barnsley CORK !!!
John 1 b Sale
William 2mths b Sale
Can't read the name of the road I'll leave that to someone else
Sue
Looks like they're still in Washway Road, but at no 130, in 1871
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Possible marriages (searching freeBMD for 1850 - 1871):
John BLAND and Eliza ARMSTRONG, June Qtr 1853, Bradford Yorks Vol 9b p46
BUT
there are are at least 3 John Bland entries elsewhere in Yorkshire where his is the only name as yet transcribed on the page.
IGNORE THIS as Manchester Rambler has found something more promising - see below!
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We will all have to chip in for Elizas birth cert to confirm her real age LOL
Joe
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It goes against my parsimony to even think of that one, Joe!
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From Yorkshire BMD:
1868 marriages
John BLAND - Eliza BOARDMAN St Mary the Virgin, Hunslet
Who has access to the 1861 Yorkshire census?
MR
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Now that looks much more promising than mine, MR!
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There is a marriage for an Abraham Bland in Leeds in 1902, maybe he went back to his roots ???
According to YorkshireBMD this marriage was to Sarah Freeman and it took place at Louis Street Synagogue, Leeds.
Jill
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John Bland died aged 86 in 1903. (Cheshire BMD)
Abraham's birth is under Abraham Lionel Gilpin, and sister Eliza's full name is Eliza Amy Helena. (Cheshire BMD
The obit Genni found gives (Abraham) Lionel as "son of", rather than "husband of", so he probably died unmarried.
MR
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Someone called Malcolm has a Abraham Lionel Gilpin Bland bn 1875 d. 1917 entered on GenesReunited!!
Anyone brave enough to contact him? I'm a bit shy :)
He doesn't give a birthplace for Abraham so maybe we should contact him in case we can help him with his research ;D
Emily
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Hi mike ,where you get the obit genni from
Joe
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Hi mike ,where you get the obit genni from
Joe
Joe
I found the information on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website.
http://www.cwgc.org./cwgcinternet/search.aspx
Cheers
Genni
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The Malcolm Bland on GenesReunited also has an Eliza Boardman entered........d.1913....so at least he's thinking on the same lines as us.....or knows his own family better than us.
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Thanks for the link
JOE
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Hello everyone,
I'm Malcolm Bland, the great nephew of Abraham Bland. I have been fascinated by your discoveries but I have to admit that I know a great deal about the man. Indeed, I hope to write a short biography about him in time for this year's Remembrance Day service.
I am not about to spoil your excellent efforts by filling in any dark areas and I do hope that you will continue to search for information. Already you have filled in some blanks for me.
117 Washway road was pulled down in the 1990s and the address given for a Manchester firm by Arranroots is news to me. An office block was to be erected on the site and I assume you have found one of the firms occupying this.
Don't be shy, EmilySiobhan, I don't bite! Abraham was born in Sale. And I would welcome any help with my research!
JillJ, Abraham never married and he seemed to have disliked the name Abraham, which he probably got from his maternal grandfather, Abraham Boardmen, who was a bleacher.
He enlisted, as Gennig says, as Lionel Gilpin Bland but I have two letters sent from him while in the 28th Battalion of the Canadian Expeditionary Force and he signs them both, "Len". I am desparate to discover which Company he served in on the night of 21st/22nd August 1817 as I have the handwritten reports of the actions each of the four Companies and I would love to be able to read about what he did on the night of his death.
Manchester Ramble has surprised me with Len's sister's name. I had her down as Eliza Amy [1891 census] but her daughter Marjorie Huxley, who I interviewed twice had never heard that her mother's name was Amy! Now you tell me that she was also called Helena. I wonder where that came from?
As others have said, there were five brothers. They were, in order, John, William [my grandfather], Frank, Abraham Lionel Gilpin and Arthur. I am also desparate to know why the fourth son had three names! All the rest made do with a single christian name. Quite by chance I moved 27 years ago into the Yorkshire Dales [from the Home Counties] and discovered a William Bland living only two miles away ... and his father was called Gilpin Bland! I cannot make the connection.
Yes, Molar, this was a second marriage. John Bland, born 1817, married Eliza Carpenter in Hereford in 1848 but she died and they had no issue that I know of. Strangely, John was already living in Sale at the time and he still lived in Sale when he married Eliza Boardman in Hunslet in 1868. He got around! He was 51 at the time of his second marriage and all his seven children [that I know about], were born to his second wife. He was 64 when his last child was born. He died in 1903, as Manchester Rambler correctly states.
I have photos of Lionel if that would ad any interest to this thread.
Please keep lookin! I am stuck at Abraham's grandfather and I am convinced that they key to this mystery is the name GILPIN!
Thanks for all your hard work so far.
Malcolm
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Hello Malcolm and a very warm welcome to RootsChat! I hope you will stay around and join us.
I can't wait to see what PaulE has to say - you will have made his day!
Best wishes.
Jill
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What a great topic and a fantastic result. Well done PaulE another cracker!
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Hello Malcolm - I'm sure you already have this info, but for those of us who accepted Paul's challenge....
Abraham's full date of birth was 28 December 1874.
He worked as a warehouseman in Regina, Saskatchewan.
Brother Frank was also living in Regina when Abraham enlisted in 1916, and is given as next-of-kin on Abraham's attestation paper.
MR
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Hello Malcolm - I'm sure you already have this info, but for those of us who accepted Paul's challenge....
Abraham's full date of birth was 28 December 1874.
He worked as a warehouseman in Regina, Saskatchewan.
Brother Frank was also living in Regina when Abraham enlisted in 1916, and is given as next-of-kin on Abraham's attestation paper.
MR
Thank you, Manchester Rambler, everything you say is correct. I only wish I could have found the information as quickly as you have! It has taken me years!
In fact, Len and Frank emigrated to Canada about 1903 [I don't know if they went together and I don't know the exact date] and Len their niece, Marjorie Huxley, says that they worked on the Canadian Pacific Railway. I don't know if this is true. Frank worked in Regina but Len took a parcel of land to the north where he broke the sod, built himself a wooden house and owned three horned cattle. I suspect this all went pear-shaped because, as you say, he was a warehouseman in Regina when he volunteered for the army.
Also, although you correctly state that he gave his next of kin to be Frank, his military will leaves everything to his brother John in England. I have no idea what John got. I do not know if the smallholding still belonged to Len when he joined up. These questions need to be answered but I am not clever enough to find the answers!
Malcolm
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I've been away for a day or so and the developments in this thread have come as a surprise to me!!!!
Well done everybody - and welcome, Malcolm!
You're probably thinking 'why on earth are these people picking on MY family?' :)
At least now you have discovered Rootschat you may be able to post specific queries on the boards.
Well, I hope you have recognised that my choice of Abraham was entirely random. In the spirit of the Challenge perhaps I should have checked GenesReunited first (to make it harder for everyone - I'll bear that in mind next time!)
I think I should keep this thread open to the end of April, so that when people have a moment and want to dig, they can do so.
Another Challenge in May though, if you're up for it!
best wishes
Paul
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Just found this thread.
What a superb idea!
I love searching about and hope you'll pick more people to research as you go along.
Hope people post their source though, as it could get very repetitive.
Will definitely join in the next one!
Keep me posted.
regards, Olly
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Hi Malcolm,
Welcome to Rootschat. Did you find us via google, or did someone contact you via GenesReunited?
I'm sorry for being shy, but I wasn't sure exactly how to explain to you that we had randomly chosen your great uncles family tree to research.
Hopefully someone will be able to help you find your Gilpin link......maybe you should try a post on the Yorkshire board, as you'll probably find 'experts' more local to there there.
We also have a surname interests board....there is a link at the bottom of the screen. It doesn't seem to have any Gilpins or Bland yet though.
Paul...for May.....if it is going to be a random person.....perhaps we can use a random number generator to get a random piece no. folio and page no. and then take the first person on that page?
Then it'll just be luck whether the person died two weeks later...or ended up being an ancestor of someone we can find online...
Best regards,
Emily
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I doubt there's any connection, but here's a curiosity:
CUMBERLAND & WESTMORLAND WRESTLING
A Documentary History
by ROGER ROBSON
Published to co-incide with the European Championships, the book covers the history of the sport from the earliest references, right through the huge popularity of the Victorian era when it vied with boxing and horse racing as a major national sport, the excitements which led to the setting up of the present Wrestling Association, the exploits of the great Gilpin Bland, accounts of the Academy League and the great champions of the last fifty years.
http://home.clara.net/pb/calendar/postal_e.htm
Malcolm - I recently researched a cousin who died with the CEF, so knew where to go for attestation papers. I presume you have a copy of his service papers?
MR
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Paul...for May.....if it is going to be a random person.....perhaps we can use a random number generator to get a random piece no. folio and page no. and then take the first person on that page?
Then it'll just be luck whether the person died two weeks later...or ended up being an ancestor of someone we can find online...
Hi emily
I'd be happy to do this - and actually, maybe we should let someone else choose the May Challenge?
Perhaps we could twist your arm, emily!
Paul
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Malcolm - my guess for the Gilpin link is that its a maternal surname that was preserved in the family.
I have, from North Yorkshire, a number of Leonard Blyth Clark's in successive generations of my tree. I, too, wondered where the Blyth came from.
It all became clear when I discovered a marriage of a James Clark to an Ann Blyth - first son, Leonard Blyth Clark, in the early C19th.
Interestingly, in the 1901 census there are the following:
Gilpin Bland, aged 2 in Over Stavely, Westmoreland
Gilpin Garnett, aged 65 in hensingham, Cumberland
Gilpin G Hodgson, aged 7 in Arlecdon Cumberland
Gilpin Preston, aged 8 in Hensingham, Cumerland
There are one or two others around (not many!) including a one born in Canada but living in Tottenham.
So it seems as if the Cumbrian connection might be a very valid one!
best wishes
Paul
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What a great thread this is turning out to be Paul. Nice one.
Great to hear from you Malcolm too. Welcome to RootsChat.
Looking forward to the May challenge! :D
Best wishes
Ticker
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Hmm....in the 1871 census, there seems to be a Bland family living in Sale with parents John and Eliza and two boys John and William, but the parents are transcribed as coming from Cork!!
Cork...York? Does anyone have access to the image?....its Rg10 piece 3684
i have looked at the image and it definitely says 'Yorkshire' not Cork!
no surprise there then.
Fantastic thread - well done Paul.
Hi there Malcolm - and welcome.
Sue
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Hi Malcolm,
Welcome to Rootschat. Did you find us via google, or did someone contact you via GenesReunited?
I'm sorry for being shy, but I wasn't sure exactly how to explain to you that we had randomly chosen your great uncles family tree to research.
I was 'the someone' who contacted Malcolm via GenesReunited. I thought that our discoveries would help pad out someone's research. It looks as though Malcolm has done very well on his own, though.
Here's the message I sent, and the one Malcolm sent back:
To : Malcolm
Subject : Re - Abraham Lionel Gilpin Bland
Hi,
You may be interested to know that a family history study of Abraham BLAND is being worked on at:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,49589.0.html
The name was chosen at random, and the members of the site are finding out as much as they can of this person.
It's the April Challenge for 2005.
From : Malcolm
Subject : Re - Abraham Lionel Gilpin Bland
Thanks for the information. I shall have a look at this site.
In fact I know a great deal about him already and hope to write his biography in time for November's Remembrance Day service.
What I do not know, and intrigues me, is how he came by his names. He is the 4th son of John Bland and his elder brothers were John, William and Frank. He also had a younger brother called Arthur. All these had single christian names, as was common in Victorian times. Why, therefore Abraham Lionel Gilpin? His maternel grandad was Abraham Boardman, which explains that. His neice, who saw him off to war, never knew that he was called Abraham! He enlisted as Lionel Gilpin Bland and was always known as "Len" in the family. I have two letters written by him and signed Len.
I shall be fascinated to learn more about him!
Thnks again
Malcolm Bland
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I was delighted to be informed by SS from The Rhondda of the random selection of Abraham Bland for your April challenge. What are the odds against that, I wonder!
I am also pleased that it is to remain until the end of the month as I cannot have too much information and at least two new bits have already been discovered.
There are some specific questions that I need to have answered but I do not think that it would be in the spirit of the challenge for me to pose these. However, at the end of the month I shall post a fuller account of Abraham's background and if/when I ever get his potted biography written I will make it available to those who might be interested.
Meanwhile, please keep digging and I hope to join in fully with the RootsChat research myself in future!
Thanks to you all
Malcolm
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I don't know if this is a relation of the Bland in the April challange but it's worth a look.
http://www.fizell.org/gilpin.htm
deadans
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Hiya Malcom,
Welcome to Rootschat - and what a strange way for you to find us - as you say what are the chances!
I reckon it would be in the spirit of the challenge for you let us know if there are specific queries - there seems to be an army of people here at the service of Abraham!
All the best,
Pam
;D
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I'd be happy to do this - and actually, maybe we should let someone else choose the May Challenge?
Perhaps we could twist your arm, emily!
Paul
Ow, ow, ow....my arm hurts! ;D Ok, I'll sort out finding a random person for May....just have to find a random number generator online somewhere now...
By the way Paul...are you looking younger today? ;)
Best regards,
Emily
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I hope to join in fully with the RootsChat research myself in future!
Be careful, Malcolm - its addictive: very soon you too will be wanting to learn the history and fate of total strangers!
I sense we have a long way to go with the April Challenge yet, though - particularly if we start looking for Abraham's granparents and g grandparents!
best wishes
Paul
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Abraham never married and he seemed to have disliked the name Abraham, which he probably got from his maternal grandfather, Abraham Boardmen, who was a bleacher.
The 1871 census has an Abraham Boardman, aged 55, born Barnsley, working as a Yarn Maker and living at 6 Bedal Place, Hunslet, Leeds (with wife Sarah, also 55, born Doncaster).
This Abraham, born c1816, must be a strong candidate to be the father of Eliza, born c1837, do we think?
Paul
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What an absolutely fantastic thread!! How do you come up with these ideas Paul E?
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Paul E, you are a star! I have been searching for Abraham Boardman for ages and, although I cannot accept that you have found him ... yet[!], this one must be a very good candidate indeed!
Abraham's mum, Eliza Boardman, married his dad, John Bland at St Mary's church, Hunslet, on December 31st 1868. She is described as a spinster, the daughter of Abraham Boardman and living in BEDAL STREET! Witnesses are Tom Lewis and Elizabeth Boardman. Who else lived with Abraham and Sarah Boardman? Can you see another Elizabeth Boardman on your 1871 census?
You have Bedal Place, I have Bedal Street, but they may be the same. I have a street map of Hunslet and I have asked a resident of Hunslet and both suggest that Bedal Street/Place no longer exists.
Thanks for this new lead.
Malcolm
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Great idea paul, welcome malcolm, hope you have as good an experience and as much help as i have had on rootschat.
Just a bit gutted you didn't randomly pick one of my rellies im stuck on Paul!!!!
Kev. ;D
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Who else lived with Abraham and Sarah Boardman? Can you see another Elizabeth Boardman on your 1871 census?
Hi Malcolm
Abraham and Sarah are the only occupants at 6 Bedale Place.
There are 12 Yorkshire-resident Elizabeth Boardman's, four of whom would have been too young to have been a witness.
Do any of these look to be likely candidates?
b 1811, Spalden, Lincolnshire (Wife) living in Barnsley Yorkshire
b 1831 Kirkheaton, Yorkshire (Wife) living in Bowling Yorkshire
b 1850 Bradford, Yorkshire (Boarder) living in Bradford Yorkshire
b 1851 Market Rasen, Lincolnshire (Servant) living in Huddersfield Yorkshire
b 1842 Sheffield, Yorkshire (Wife) living in Nether Hallam Yorkshire
b 1815 Chewhamston, Yorkshire (Wife) living in Rotherham Yorkshire
b 1834 Wednesbury, Staffordshire (Lodger) living in Rotherham Yorkshire
b 1810 Birmingham, Warwickshire (wife) living in Sheffield Yorkshire
Of course, she may not have been living in Yorkshire (but I suppose it's likely!)
Paul
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From Yorkshire BMD: all Boardmans listed for Hunslet 1837-1880.
BOARDMAN Georgiana Hunslet 1848
BOARDMAN George Henry Hunslet 1851
BOARDMAN Eleanor Hunslet 1853
BOARDMAN William Hunslet 1863
BOARDMAN Robert Maudsley Hunslet 1865
BOARDMAN Charles William D Hunslet 1866
BOARDMAN Alice Hunslet 1867
BOARDMAN Henrietta Hunslet 1871
BOARDMAN Joseph Hunslet 1871
BOARDMAN Matilda Hunslet 1875
BOARDMAN Herbert Hunslet 1880
They have no Eliza(beth) Boardmans born in Yorkshire. Free BMD has quite a few, mainly born in Lancashire.
MR
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From the IGI:
Elizabeth Ann Boardman, christened 6 Jan 1851, Barnsley, Yorkshire. Daughter of Abraham Boardman and Sarah.
The same couple christened Margaret Boardman in Barnsley on 28 Feb 1847.
MR
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Ah ha, MR - looks like the 1871 Elizabeth is the boarder, shown born 1850 Bradford?
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Although, we might have to factor in that Elizabeth married sometime after 1868 and before 1871, and therefore appears under a different name in the census..
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In which case, I think Malcolm should have a look at ...
the marriage of Elizabeth Ann Boardman to John GILPIN in June Qtr 1870 in Hunslet which would start to look VERY interesting!
(freeBMD)
Paul
BTW, there's an interesting Tom Lewis showing on the 1871, born Doncaster c1841 - occupation (apparently) 'Songman'!
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What took Abraham to Canada?
I'm intrigued to understand why Abraham and his brother should have emigrated.
I have had a little look at some of the census indexes, and there are certainly a few Gilpins (surname) showing as being born Canada, now resident in England.
I wonder whether Abraham went over to relatives there?
Paul
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Hello All
I was invited to take a look at this thread in a PM from an old Rootschat friend. It is terrific and dramatic. Well done Paul and the rest of you.
It reminds me of the original co-operative building societies - 40 or so families all chipped in so much a week and built a house for the first lucky guy in the draw and then for the next and so on until all had their house built. This resulted in 40 or so men working all their spare time on the project - a formidable force. When all had been housed the society dissolved - for that reason they were called terminating building societies.
So, what Paul did here was to create a research co-op but with a completely altruistic motive and a surprise beneficiary. 8)
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This is a truly brilliant thread!! Congratulations Paul on such a remarkable idea. I only wish I saw this earlier, as I would have loved to chip in!!
Keep up the good work ;D
Ryan.
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In which case, I think Malcolm should have a look at ...
the marriage of Elizabeth Ann Boardman to John GILPIN in June Qtr 1870 in Hunslet which would start to look VERY interesting!
(freeBMD)
Good grief, Paul, I never thought of that! I knew that my neighbour [son of Gilpin Bland] came from Kentmere, Westmorland, where three out of the fourteen children of a John Bland had married Gilpins in the eighteenth century. Therefore I assumed that my Gilpin Bland connections were from the paternal side. It never occurred to me that the Gilpin connection was on the Boardman side!! What a fool I am.
By the way, There are, indeed, several Gilpin Bland in North America.
I need time to rethink this entirely! [And also to kick myself!] Thanks again. This is proving to be a real tonic for me. I shall make some notes about Abraham and post them in a day or two.
Malcolm
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as I would have loved to chip in!!
Ryan.
Ryan - and everyone else... there's plenty of time to contribute as this thread won't close until 30 April, when emily will set usoff on the May Challenge
Hack - nice to see you and oh how we've missed your elegant turn of phrase! The altruism you describe is in fact the true spirit of Rootschat, and I've benefited very much from it since I joined.
Malcolm - a fresh pair of eyes (or in this case a good few dozen!) will always turn up new ideas - some of which might be easily discounted, but other lead on to greater things.
So - there's a lot we yet need to find about the Gilpins, the Boardmans, Hunslet and Canada, don't you think?
And I'm blowed if I can find Elizabeth and John Gilpin in the 1881/ 1891 / 1901 census.
I wonder if they emigrated? :)
Paul
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Do you have them in 1871 census.
transcribed as John Gilpen 23 think says painter born barnsley
Elizabeth A Gilpen 20 born Leeds
12 chapman street, leeds.
Kev.
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Kev, that's great! Nessie had also just found them on the West Yorks Look-up Board, too!
Our dear old friend, the transcription error!
Paul
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Paul i am really bad at reading census handwriting, johns occupation has other words listed and may be of use if someone else can read it.
Kev.
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Good news: this thread is now listed first on a Google search for 'Gilpin Bland'!
Kev - it looks like 'Paper Hanger', but I can't be sure.
Paul
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Some more on Abraham Lionel Gilpin Bland's brother & sister.
In the 1901 census Frank is boarding with the Rogerson Family in 417A Stockport Road, Cheadle. His occupations is listed as Storekeeper Railway Loco
Elizabeth Bland maybe Agnes Bland aged 19 a Domestic housemaid in the Home of Harry Vernon Kilvert Lord Re???? magistrate
Ashton Lane, Ashton upon Mersey.
Genni
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I agree with Paul E the occupation looks like Painter & Paper Hanger for John Gilpin.
Thought the following was interesting
Birth June qtr 1898 Kendal lancashire Westmorland
Agnes Bland GILPIN
Cheers
Genni
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Yes gennig- although interesting that they couldn't decide where Kendal was! :)
There's definately something inriguing about this constant link between the Blands and the Gilpins that seems to crop up everywhere. Gilpin is neither a surname nor a first name I've come across up until now, but... once you start looking there are a fair few of them about.
Still can't find Elizabeth & John Gilpin/Gilpen beyond the 1871 reference that Kev found. ???
Paul
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I've had the following information from JJDownunder, via a PM:
unfortunately I'm going away for a few days but I had a quick look through various pieces of 1861 couldn't find Bedal place/street in the street index but looked in the general area Hunslet is quite big and I don't have a name index so when I get back I will check the thread again to see if any progress has been made and if not will see if I can help further here is what I found don't know if it is of any help
35 Charlotte street 3366 fol 54
Thomas Bland Head mar 28 Joiner Burley
Elizabeth " wife " 25 Wortley
Eliza " dau " 3 York
Ann " " 1 Whitkirk
1 Louisa place 3368 fol 61
William F Bland Head Mar 28 mill joiner N K further Westhouse
Sarah H " wife " 27 Housewife Holbeck
Mary A " dau 5 scholar "
4 Crofs/Cross place 3367 fol 130
Thomas Gilpin 16 born Hunslet was an apr Potter to a Abraham Crofsley/Crossley and living with his his family
Hope it helps
JJDownunder
Might be useful!
Paul
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Louisa Place was in Holbeck, it is always worth a try on the Leodis database when looking for street names.
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This picture is from Leodis - of a derilict house in Bedal Place Hunslet - that is if I have done it right !
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1-5 Louisa Place, Holbeck (running left to right)
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Nessie - Kathy: WOW! What a terrific site Leodis is - I'd never seen it before.
So, Bedal/e Place is shown as 'off Hillidge Road'.
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You are all working so fast that I have hardly had time to keep up with you! Realising that there is much to digest, I have now printed off all 21 A4 pages that you have posted so far.
Now I would like to pose a specific question, if I may. Very early on in this thread, Paul gave a description of Sale and mentioned that "it lies on the former Manchester, South Junction and Altrincham line". Abraham certainly worked as a railway fireman [as Gennig has pointed out], and his brothers John and Frank also worked for the railway. [Frank lost a foot in a railway accident.] What I want to know is whether 'The Manchester, South Junction and Altrincham' is the name of a railway company. If not, what was the name of the company which ran trains through Sale, because if I know this I can probably obtain the work records of these three brothers. This may tell me how Frank lost his foot and will help to fill in details of Abraham's early life. Can anyone help with this?
Malcolm Bland
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How do I post a picture on this site?
Malcolm Bland
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Try this link. put this into the search field. "The Manchester South Junction & Altrincham Railway."
http://libraries.trafford.gov.uk/TalisPrism/browseResults.do
deadants
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How do I post a picture on this site?
Here's a little tutorial on posting pics.
deadants
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,31111.msg137036.html#msg137036
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Paul wrote,
Gilpin is neither a surname nor a first name I've come across up until now
Just thought i had heard of Gilpin before... In Frasier the actress who plays Roz is Peri Gilpin.
Her is a small piece from http://www.nbc.com/Frasier/bios/Peri_Gilpin.html
Peri Gilpin figures she was destined to portray a character such as radio producer Roz Doyle on “Frasier.” For one thing, her late father, Jim O’Brien, was a nationally known broadcaster who used to take his daughter into a radio station in Dallas to sing “Happy Birthday” over the airwaves. Later, she worked in Hollywood with the producer of “Wings,” the late Roz Doyle, her character’s namesake.
Gilpin lives in Los Angeles with her husband, artist Christian Vincent, and their three dogs. Her birthday is May 27
It doesn't mean much just thought i would throw it in ;)
Steve.
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The GILPIN family in Leeds - lived just round the corner from me
They lived at 'The Mansion House' which is the house in the middle of (what is now) Roundhay Park.
When the Council took the land (and house) over - the Gilpins turned it into a hotel....
In 1891 - William & his wife & six children lived there with 12 servants...
In 1901 - there were 16 servants = or what should have been employees....domestics, baker, butcher, waiters, etc.etc....
The Mansion was run as a hotel/restaurant/bar/wedding reception venus by further generations of the Gilpin family...until fairtly recently (2003 I think) when it closed - and is now part of a huge renovation programme.....and looking very much improved already !!
The Gilpins ran a HUGE catering company - who are well known - in Leeds anyway - I wonder if they are conected to this family ??
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Possible origin of the GILPIN surname:
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/richard2.htm
Bert de Guylpyn having served under Duke William of Normandy
Quote taken from: Gilpin History and Genealogy
http://freepages.history.rootsweb.com/~bonsteinandgilpin/
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Possible origin of the BLAND surname:
...habitational name from a place in West Yorkshire called Bland...
http://www.ancestry.com/learn/facts/Fact.aspx?fid=10&yr=0&ln=Bland
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It never occurred to me that the Gilpin connection was on the Boardman side!!
This is proving to be a real tonic for me. I shall make some notes about Abraham and post them in a day or two.
Malcolm
Lets see the colour of your notes then, Malcolm! ;)
I suppose that the Gilpin name coming in from the maternal line is only a possibility at this stage. Perhaps Elizabeth Ann and John were second cousins or more distantly relatged?
There's still nothing definitive coming up post 1871 on the censuses for them, unless anyone knows any better...
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I suppose that the Gilpin name coming in from the maternal line is only a possibility at this stage. Perhaps Elizabeth Ann and John were second cousins or more distantly relatged?
There's still nothing definitive coming up post 1871 on the censuses for them, unless anyone knows any better...
how about another emigration to Canada?
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how about another emigration to Canada?
Can't see them on the 1881 Canada census.
MR
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how about another emigration to Canada?
Valda has posted this on another thread:
"Try the Canadian National Archives online databases
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/02/0201_e.html
Many people who emigrated to Sasketchewan took out land grants. The archives have a database for such grants
Western Land Grants 1870-1930"
Malcolm may already have looked here, but I did notice
John Gilpin
and
Lionel Gilpin Bland
appeared under a search for 'Gilpin' on that database.
I think we need an expert on the Canadian land grant system quick!
Paul
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Esholt, par. and vil. with ry. sta. L. M. S., W. R. Yorks, 5 1/2 m N. of Bradford; 691 ac. pop 359; eccl dist., 579; P.O. E. Hall is a seat.
That's from the 1950s-ish.
But Esholt's most famous for the sewage works :-X and I believe the local pub used to be (maybe still is) the Woolpack in Emmerdale.
Jon
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Hi,
better late than never, justy spotted this posting.
Looking at the 1906 census for Regina, Saskatchewan,
sub district 37+A (City of Regina) Page 5, Schedule 1 Microfilm T-18359
Reading the image,
living at block 181 Scarth Street,
Bland, Frank, head, male, mar, 31, born England, came to Canada 1904,
Clara, wife, Female, mar, 29, England, came to Canada 1904,
Dorothy, Duaghter, female, single, 3, England, came to Canada 1904,
I'll keep looking,
Sue
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OK,
not sure from this thread who else I should be looking for in 1906.
I didn't see Abraham Lionel Gilpin Bland.
Could someone summarize who we are expecting to be in Canada?
Thanks,
Sue
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You were asking about the railway line through Sale - goes past Old Trafford Cricket Ground - been on it many many times!
Try this site
www.altrincham-electric.org.uk/html/the_msj_ar.html
Was one of the few suburban electric lines in the north.
Cheers
Keith
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OK,
not sure from this thread who else I should be looking for in 1906.
I didn't see Abraham Lionel Gilpin Bland.
Could someone summarize who we are expecting to be in Canada?
Abraham Lionel Gilpin BLAND should be in Canada in 1906:
Malcolm Bland:
From 1904 until at least 1908 he farmed a homestead in Pengarth.
Source: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/an/localities.northam.canada.saskatchewan.regina/540
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But there's a also a posibility thatJohn and Elizabeth Ann Gilpin (nee Boadman) are there too.
Paul
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Just as a matter of interest I checked the Gilpin name in the 1901 census. There were 13 in Hunslet and 8 in Leeds. Going back to 1891 there were still 13 in Hunslet but 41 in Leeds.
Makes you wonder where they all disappeared to in those ten years.
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That's intriguing, Nessie!
Wonder where they all went?
Paul
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Hi,
Unfortunately I have had no more success with either the 1901 or 1906 Canadian census transcriptions.
The transcription project isn't yet complete so they could be there but can't be found.
Sue
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Thanks for looking Sue!
Paul
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OK,
not sure from this thread who else I should be looking for in 1906.
I didn't see Abraham Lionel Gilpin Bland.
Could someone summarize who we are expecting to be in Canada?
Abraham Lionel Gilpin BLAND should be in Canada in 1906:
No he shouldn't! Abraham seemed not to like his name and he did not use it in Canada. He was simply Lionel Gilpin Bland in 1906. You may find him on his smallholding in Pengarth, Sakatchewan, in 1906. According to his sworn statement he lived on this piece of land from June 1st to November 1st 1905 and from June 30th continuously from that date. In between these dates he worked in Regina, but I do not know what work he did. Family legend suggests that he was a fireman with the CPR but I think he may have been a warehouseman [as he was doing this work in 1916]. I do not know on which date the Canadian census was taken.
Thanks again for all your troubles.
Malcolm Bland
Malcolm Bland:
From 1904 until at least 1908 he farmed a homestead in Pengarth.
Source: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/message/an/localities.northam.canada.saskatchewan.regina/540
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Hi
I have looked through the images on the 1906 census which (I think) covers Pengarth.
Found him, the entry reads,
Bland, Lionel, servant, male, single, 50, born in England, year of immigration to Canada 1904, post office address Pengarth,
the age actually looks like it was originally a different number ?20 or 30 with a heavy 5 written over the first digit
Head Cecil Edmonson, male, single, 23, born England, immigration year 1903,
section 15, range 23, township 23, meridian w, horses 3, cows -, cattle -, sheep -, pigs 1.
Province: Saskatchewan
District Name: Assiniboia West District
District Number: 12
District Description: Assiniboia West
Sub-district Number: 32 A
Reference: RG31 , Statistics Canada
Microfilm Reel Number: T-18358
Page 22
The census for this area was taken on July 7 1906
Sue
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Well done, Sue! Looks as if, just like the Mounties, you always get your man :)
best wishes
Paul
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Esholt Lies between Shipley and Guiseley West Yorkshire.
The Pub in the village was called the Commercial for many years but due to a succesful TV programme the Name was changed to the Woolpack. Emmerdale.
I believe filming no longer takes place at the pub as a set was built instead.
The only other thing I can tell you is that Esholt stinks in the summer due to the large sewerage works that now sits on it's outskirts.
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All this is wonderful news, Sue. Thanks for all your endeavours. The surprise is that Lionel is listed as a servant and living with a Cecil Edmonson. This may be a huge clue as to why Lionel and Frank emigrated to Canada in 1904. Cecil had only emigrated himself in 1903 so he may have been the catalyst for Frank and Lionel. I must serach for this Cecil Edmnson in Englad in 1901 to see if they might have known each other. Meanwhile, I wonder if I might trouble you again, Sue. Would you check to see who else was living in the Edmonson household in 1906?
I am attaching some notes on Lionel's homesteading exploits and I believe that it shows that he is not so successful at it as Ceil Edmonson. Perhaps Lionel was living with Cecil in 1906 because he had no house built on his own land? But why was he a servant? He built his own house in September 1906, just a few months after the census.
NOTES on LIONEL'S HOMESTEAD:
In a sworn statement in application for a homestead , under the provisions of the “Dominions Land Act”, dated 13th July 1908 [and granted 6th August 1908], Lionel Gilpin Bland, who no longer uses the name of Abraham, gives the following information:
Age 32. Occupation, farmer. Address, Pengarth. Obtained entry for this homestead, 26th September 1904. Took up residence 1st June 1905. Built his house September 1906. Resided June 1st 1905 to 1st November 1905 and from 30th June continuously to date of this application.
The application is stamped “No Seed Grain Incumbrance” 24th July 1906.
He declares he is unmarried. His work on the homestead is as follows:
1905, broke 6 acres, cropped nil.
1906, broke no acres, cropped none.
1907, broke 10 acres, cropped 6 acres.
He states that in 1907 he had 3 cattle and I have a phopto of him standing with them yoked and pulling a cart. In the cart is a lady who I believe to be his sister in law, Clara. This leads me to assume that his brother Frank took the photo.
He also states that he has built a frame house measuring 10 x 12 [feet?] worth $70 and a stable [sod] measuring 18 x 12 worth $25. He has erected 32 acres of fencing worth £20. He has no other homestead and has no mortgage on this homestead.
This statement was sworn before the Local Agent for Dominion Lands for the Regina District at Pengarth on the 21st day November 1907.
I have no idea why it took until 13th July 1908 for it to be recommended or 6th August 1908 for it to be accepted as sufficient.
I have no information between 1908 and 1916 when Lionel enlists for the Canadian Expeditionary Forces and gives his address as 862 Angus Street, Regina and his occupation as Warehouseman. What can have happened in these eight years?
Malcolm Bland
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Hi Malcolm
With little over a week to go with the April Challenge, I am sure fellow Rootschatters will indulge you if you have any loose ends you think can be tied up...
I'm sure we would also be interested in Abraham's grandparents.
In fact, you've probably gathered... we share a love of hunting out anything!
best wishes
Paul
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Hi,
In 1871 the family are in Sale
John Bland 48 market gardener b Ersholt CORK !!!
Eliza 34 b Barnsley CORK !!!
John 1 b Sale
William 2mths b Sale
Can't read the name of the road I'll leave that to someone else
Sue
Looks like they're still in Washway Road, but at no 130, in 1871
Other Blands born in Esholt showing in the 1871 censuses are:
Margaret Bland - wife of Charles, and son David, in the following family, in Baildon, Yorkshire
Charles Bland, b1826, Head, Worsted Overlooker, Baildon Yorkshire
David Bland, b1854, Son, Cotton Twister, Esholt, Yorkshire
Fred Bland, b1867, Son, Worsted Spinner, Baildon Yorkshire
James Bland b1861, Son, Worsted Spinner, Baildon Yorkshire
Jesse Bland, b1864, Son, Scholar, Baildon Yorkshire
John Bland b1858, Son, Baildon Yorkshire
Matilda Bland b1835, Wife, Esholt Yorkshire
Interestingly, David Bland appears also in the 1881 and 1891 censuses (indexed in 1891 as Daria ;) but pointedly not in 1901 (at least not using an Esholt search)
Not sure of the distance from Esholt to Baildon - anyone help?
Paul
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According to the map at multimap.com, Baildon is about 10 miles to the NE of Bradford, but i cant find Esholt anywhere.
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Esholt is near Shipley, Baildon and Guisley and is only a small village so may not be shown on maps.
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Can i just point out that sue has lionel as age 50 in canada but malcolm has him as 32 thats a big difference!!!
Kev.
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But Sue said the age had been overwriten and originally said 20 or 30?
Pam
;D
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Info from 1851 census - which may help
HO107/2285/376
Lower Baildon - Baildon
Charles BLAND Head Wid 77 Hand Loom Weaver - stuff B: Allerton
Sarah BLAND dau Unm 34 Baildon
Mary E BLAND g/dau 8 "
Hannah BLAND g/dau 3 "
Same Ref - next page
Obbutt ? Hill
John BLAND Head Widow 47 Hand Loom Weaver stuff B: Baildon
Charles BLAND son Unm 24 " "
William BLAND son Unm 20 " "
Mary BLAND dau Unm 19 Housekeeper "
Benjamin BLAND son Unm 14 Corn Miller "
John BLAND son 12 scholar "
Edmund BLAND son 8 " "
Also in Baildon - a few pages on, there is a Stephen BLAND 17 listed as a visitor at the home of William RAISTRICK & his wife Ann (both 68) - William is another Hand Loom weaver of stuff - Stephen is listed as a "Steam Weaver" born in Baildon.
There are No Bland's listed in Esholt.....
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Here are all the Bland entries for the 1841 census - for Baildon - again none I could find in Esholt - which is close to Baildon and today is just across the other side of the main road into Bradford...
High Butts, Baildon
John BLAND 35 Stuff weaver y
Rachel " 40 y
Charles " 14 y
James " 12 y
Mary " 9 y
Benjamin " 5 y
John " 2 y
William RAISTRICK 55 Cordwainer y
Ann " 55 y
Stephen BLAND 7 y
(visiting again????)
at Tong Park, Baildon
Francis BLAND 65 Wool Comber y
Ellen " 25 y
John " 20 y
Esther? " 15 y
James BLAND 35 Wool Comber y
Martha " 35 y
Abram? " 15 y
Ann " 13 y
John " 12 y
James " 10 y
William " 8 y
Thos? " 6 y
Eliza " 3 y
Elizabeth " 1 y
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Does anyone else think that maybe John Bland, son of Francis in 1841 could be Abraham's father......
His age should be 23/4 and would have been rounded down to 20.....
In later years he seemed to change his age to make himself appear younger.....????
Also - according to IGI - Francis married Mary TODD 2 Oct 1796 at ADDINGHAM. John was baptised there 3 Sept 1815.....making him 26 in 1841 ?? unless they had two sons called John (first dying young?)
Was James Bland another of Francis' sons....and John's older brother? He named his son Abraham .... could this be a family name - also he is also a Wool Comber like Francis ????
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Hi,
On the 1906 Canadian census
There is one other person in the same entry as Lionel, as follows,
Dornaille (?), Thomas, servant, male, single, born England, immigrated to Canada 1906.
I am fairly confident this Lionel is our guy. Pengarth is a very small township and I looked at all the pages that I think covered this area. This was the only Bland I saw. The geographical reference associated with this census entry put him in Pengarth and the year of immigration also ties in. The only doubt would be in his age, but it has been overwritten in a much heavier pen, and I guess we have seen ages vary on census before!
Sue
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Does anyone else think that maybe John Bland, son of Francis in 1841 could be Abraham's father......
He named his son Abraham .... could this be a family name - also he is also a Wool Comber like Francis ????
I think you may be onto something there, Kathy...
John's 1815 baptism might possibly have been a couple of years after his birth.
The Abram in 1841 appears in Idle in 1871 living with his wife and two 'half cousins' George and Arthur Lambert aged 13 and 10 (what is a half cousin????) ???
Paul
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OK,
for the second attempt, I will try to attatch the image of the 1906 entry.
Lionel is under enrty 237, but what is the surname of the other servant Thomas?
Sue
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OK better try again that is the wrong bit of the census!!!!!!
Sue
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This is my 4th attempt, I'll give up soon if it doesn't work!!
Sue
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Yippee I did it!!!
Sue
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Great Sue - glad you didn't give up!
That surname is pretty hard to decypher. Calling all Rootschatters!
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looks like Jomville to me
Sue
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Hi,
I thought it began with a D, comparing it to the D of daughter, just above,
Sue
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I think it's Fornaille.
Mick ;)
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Possibly Donville, then.
There's a Thomas Donville on the 1891 census, but he's 18 so probably no good... but he doesn't appear in 1901. Living in Liverpool, single, working as a cotton porter.
Paul
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The surname looks like DOMAILLE to me (I went to school with a girl of that name).
Is there anything that says he immigrated from the UK - he could equally be French?
It would be quite normal practice for a man to arrive in the country, use up his funds and have to work for someone else to earn money before returning to his own project. Maybe Lionel just ran out of funds?
;) Arranroots
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The 1901 census has 2 Thomas DOMAILLE:
* one aged 19 an ag lab in Vale, Guernsey
* one aged 22 a market gardener in St Martin, Jersey, but born England
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I really ought to have jumped in sooner to save kind researchers from looking for Abraham's dad. I shall now fill in his ancestry as far as I know it. Sadly I knew of his dad and granddad back in 1989 and have made NO progress since then. Pathetic? I am sure that Sue is correct in saying that she has found Lionel Gilpin in Pengarth. However, I have had absolutely no luck tracing Cecil Edmonson in England in the 1901 census! He ought to be there.
Anyway, here is Abraham's ancestry:
His grandfather was William BLAND, a millwright who married Elizabeth SUGDEN in Otley Parish Church in 1816. This is as far back as I can get. They were married by Banns with parents’ consent, which suggests that one or both were younger than 21. I searched through the parish register for births 1796 - 1804 but could not find the bride or groom. I then searched for marriges and found only John BLAND married Ann SUTTEL and John SUGDEN, Millwright, married Hannah BLACKBERRY in 1792. Are these Elizabeth SUGDEN’s parents? I need to find Elizabeth’s birth certificate.
William and Elizabeth had two children, John born in 1817 and William born in 1819. Both were born in Esholt and christened in Guiseley [the parish church for Esholt]. Soon after their birth dad sailed to Trinidad to seek his fortune. He reported that he had 30 “blacks” working for him. He said they worked well if kindly treated. Eventually William (junior) became a very ill. William [Jun.] died [Starvation?], about six years after William BLAND had sailed to Trinidad. A letter indicating how wealthy he was and that he was coming home was received. His secretary, John CLARKE, was helping him to settle up his business in Trinidad. The next news was that William had died of Yellow Fever and John CLARKE had decamped with all the valuables. If only I could find the death certificate of William Bland, who died of Yellow Fever in about 1825-1835 in Trinidad, I would expect to find the names of his parents on it. But, to be honest, I really don’t know how to go about this! The Red House, where all the records of births, marriages & deaths for Trinidad was burned to the ground in the middle 1900s and all records destroyed. Any ideas?
With his only brother dead, John BLAND [Abraham’s dad], started work aged 8 on the land. In 1947 he married Eliza CARPENTER in Hereford, but he was already living in Sale by that time [marr. cert.]. Apparently they had no children and Eliza died of consumption [?]. He then married the much younger Eliza BOARDMAN in Hunslet, though he still lived in Sale. Ages on the marriage certificate give John to be a bachelor aged 46 [he was actually a widower aged 51] and Eliza aged 32 so possibly born circa 1836.
After this I can only find John in censuses and trade directories. I don’t see him in Kelly’s Directory of 1864. Morris & Co’s Directory of 1874 gives John Bland, Gardener, 117 Washway Road. P.O. Directory of 1878 gives him as a Jobbing Gardener. Slater’s Directory of Altrincham, 1902, shows him as Landscape Gardener! A grand title and by then he is 85 years old!
Paul E kindly suggested that I might ask some specific questions for this last week of the challenge, so here goes!
1. I need to find the death certificate of William BLAND, Millwright, who died in Trinidad circa 1825 - 1840, to get his father’s name and his likely date of birth. The buildings housing these records has burnt down! Any ideas?
2. I need to find Elizabeth SUGDEN’s birth and/or death certificate. I am told that she died choking on a cherry stone aged 70.
3. It would be good to locate John BLAND and his mother Elizabeth in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses. They should be in Sale by 1851.
4. It would be good to find the death certificate of John’s younger brother William who died circa 1819 - 1830.
5. I would like to know more about [Abraham] Lionel Gilpin BLAND between 1908 and 1916, when he enlisted. He never uses his first name in Canada.
6. Pte L G BLAND was killed on Hill 70 on 21st/22nd August 1917 fighting for the 28th Battalion [195th Unit] Canadian Expeditionary Forces. I am desperate to discover whether he was in A, B, C or D Company as I have the Captains’ handwritten reports of that night’s action but don’t know which Company he was with. I have a fairly full service record for him.
7. I now know that Lionel and Frank emigrated to Canada in 1904. They probably left from Liverpool. Does anyone know where I can find the passenger lists to search for these two men?
Thanks for wading through all this and for all your help so far!
Malcolm Bland
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I can do you a Cecil W EDMONDSON in 1901 ??
He is aged 16, living with his parents and siblings in Barnoldswick, Yorkshire which is also where he was born. He is a cotton twister by trade.
Intriguingly (or not) the neighbours are called DEMAIN. Sadly no Thomas to complete the picture!
Ref: RG13/ 4028 7 105 10
Sorry I don't have the resources to answer the more significant questions above! Good luck anyway.
Kind regards, Arranroots ;)
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1. I need to find the death certificate of William BLAND, Millwright, who died in Trinidad circa 1825 - 1840, to get his father’s name and his likely date of birth. The buildings housing these records has burnt down! Any ideas?
Hi Malcolm,
What an interesting story this is turning out to be!!
Not sure if this will be any help to you,I found it here,
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ttowgw/research/research_trip.htm
Registration Office, South Quay, Port of Spain (Tel: 623-7163; 8.30am - 3.15pm)
Contrary to what most people may think, records of births, marriages and deaths are NOT kept at Red House anymore but have been relocated to the Registration Office at South Quay near Courts furniture shop. Do not expect to find any indexes here. The officious gentleman sitting at the desk on entry simply couldn't understand what I was talking about when I asked about search facilities for BMDs ! After a security check you enter a large crowded hall where you must fill out a small colour-coded form in order to apply for a certificate (Birth-white; Marriage-green; Death-red). After payment the certificate is issued on the SAME day in the FOLLOWING week i.e. you can't just search an index first. The search is performed 'behind the scenes'. There must be a postal option because I ordered a number of certificates from England using International Money Orders (very expensive!). However be warned. Mine took 6 months each to receive. Do not expect a 'rapid response' attitude here.
A glimmer of hope perhaps?
Best wishes,Mick ;)
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Well, Well, Well!
Thanks for the Edmondson, ArranRoots. He could be our man but seems a little young. In 1906 he has a smallholding in Pengarth and is aged 23, not 21. On the other hand, census ages are often wrong! Still, this would mean that he emigrated aged 18, in 1903, and got a smallholding and two servant within three years. Possible.
Thanks for your "glimmer of hope", Mick. Worth pursuing and I shall do so.
Another question.
One family legend states that John and Eliza BLAND had eight children, not seven. The eighth was a boy called Alexander, who died in infancy. John 1869, William, 1871, Frank 1873, Abraham L G 1874, Arthur 1876, E Amy H 1877 and E Agnes 1881, do not leave much room for an eighth! I have looked but cannot find him. He may not have existed but most rumours do tend to have an element of truth about them. Any ideas? I have not looked to see if he was a child of the first marriage, but the source that gave me Alexander also said that the first marriage was childless.
I have looked, but not yet found the death of the first wife, born Elizabeth Carpenter and married in 1847.
Malcolm
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Cecil W EDMONDSON in 1901
He is aged 16, living with his parents and siblings in Barnoldswick
Here's another coincidence. Another of my time-consuming hobbies is church bellringing. Once a month I go to help out teaching people to ring in ... Barnoldswick Parish Church!
Malcolm
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Another question.
One family legend states that John and Eliza BLAND had eight children, not seven. The eighth was a boy called Alexander, who died in infancy. John 1869, William, 1871, Frank 1873, Abraham L G 1874, Arthur 1876, E Amy H 1877 and E Agnes 1881, do not leave much room for an eighth! I have looked but cannot find him. He may not have existed but most rumours do tend to have an element of truth about them. Any ideas?
A search on freebmd only finds an Alexander Dick Bland, born Lanchester (Durham) in 1884 and died aged 4 in Tynemouth in 1889 - a bit improbable, but then as we know its not a full index.
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When I started this thread I had no links in my tree to Leeds.
Just today, I've found a branch living there from 1881 - 1901 ... and thanks to the pointer to the Leodis site, I've been able to get a picture of the house they were living in in 1891...
Now, if I hadn't started this thread, I'd probablynever have come across that site. So, thank you Nessie and KathyM for the Leodis tip!
Paul
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Another question.
One family legend states that John and Eliza BLAND had eight children, not seven. The eighth was a boy called Alexander, who died in infancy. John 1869, William, 1871, Frank 1873, Abraham L G 1874, Arthur 1876, E Amy H 1877 and E Agnes 1881, do not leave much room for an eighth! I have looked but cannot find him. He may not have existed but most rumours do tend to have an element of truth about them. Any ideas?
A search on freebmd only finds an Alexander Dick Bland, born Lanchester (Durham) in 1884 and died aged 4 in Tynemouth in 1889 - a bit improbable, but then as we know its not a full index.
I know that census and certificate dates can be badly wrong but I have just realised that Eliza BLAND, nee BOARDMAN, was 45 when she had Agnes in 1881! My mother was 41 when I was born and my wife's mother was 44 when my wife was born and I would gues that 45 would, in 1881, be very much at the end of safe child-bearing age. The biggest gap in her birthing pattern seems to be from Amy [1877] and Agnes [1881] so that would seem to be the best bet. She never left Sale until she died, in 1913 I think, and so I think that Lanchester and the date make Alexander Dick seem to be very unlikely.
What a happy coincidence you were given the Leodis link, Paul. I was born in Kent but grew up in Hereford, where John first married, and I am certain that my father never knew of his grandfather's connection with the town. I moved up to Ilkley in 1974 but had no idea that my gt-gt-grandfather had had been born only about 8 miles away!
Someone has quoted the Bland motto, "Sperate et Virite Fortes" - Hope and Live Boldly. There were about half a dozen Bland mottoes, for different branches of the family, and another was, "Quo Fata Vocant" - Whither the Fates Call [us]. My book, when I get round to writing it, will be titled, "Called by Fate". There have been so many incredible coincidences in our family stories, and so much luck; good and bad!
Malcolm
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This is a wonderful idea Paul, and it would be great to have one every month— but instead of picking an unknown subject; how about picking (at random of course) one of the subjects of a rootschat member, that they have asked for help with? I don't know how you would choose, (maybe a date, a number in the list for that date) but there are plenty of candidates!
Alternatively, random pick a membership number, and then everyone pitch in to help with that member's brickwalls. I think I like this one better!
What do you think, people?!
Rian
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"Quo Fata Vocant" - Whither the Fates Call [us]. My book, when I get round to writing it, will be titled, "Called by Fate". There have been so many incredible coincidences in our family stories, and so much luck; good and bad!
Hi Malcolm
I think you are right about Alexander - highly unlikely, but the only one I could find - no doubt he'll emerge as freebmd gets more complete.
As for the motto - as you browse around Rootschat you'll find similar tales of people moving to places where theyhad no idea there was a family connection. There's something deep and instinctive which drives this, I am sure!
Rian - I'm leaving the choice for the May Challenge in the capable hands of emilysiobahn - I'm sure she'll take your idea into account inher selection (but in a way the totally random selection from the census seems to have been successful!)
Paul
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Anyway, here is Abraham's ancestry:
His grandfather was William BLAND, a millwright who married Elizabeth SUGDEN in Otley Parish Church in 1816. This is as far back as I can get. They were married by Banns with parents’ consent, which suggests that one or both were younger than 21. I searched through the parish register for births 1796 - 1804 but could not find the bride or groom. I then searched for marriges and found only John BLAND married Ann SUTTEL and John SUGDEN, Millwright, married Hannah BLACKBERRY in 1792. Are these Elizabeth SUGDEN’s parents? I need to find Elizabeth’s birth certificate.
From the IGI, there's a christening for a William Bland, father John Bland and mother Ann, in Bradford on 6 June 1798. This William would
be under 21 at the time of an 1816 marriage.
There are a few possible's for Elizabeth Sugden:
2 x Betty Sugden, christened 1798 Bradford
Elisabeth Sugden, c1798 Idle
parent shown as John Sugden (no mother) in each case
One of the Betty Sugdens has possible siblings that include a Hannah and an Ellen.
cheers
Paul
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I like Rian's idea about picking someone's deadend and all pitching in
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Rian - I'm leaving the choice for the May Challenge in the capable hands of emilysiobahn - I'm sure she'll take your idea into account inher selection (but in a way the totally random selection from the census seems to have been successful!)
Paul
Not sure about the capable bit ;D But am happy to take peoples views in to account.
Personally speaking I'm more inclined towards the completely random part...as people are free to post their deadends at any time and have us all pitch-in...and you never know if we might find some new rootschatters members along the completely random route.
I'm also a bit worried that some rootschatters have got so far back already with their trees that we might end up looking for a ag. lab. from ? in 1500 :)....and not get very far.
But the public can decide.........
Sorry not to have been much help with the Blands this week....had a lot to do at work..
Emily
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Back to Canada ....
The Thomas Domaille shown aged 26 in the 1906 census in Saskatchewan may well the same Thomas who is shown as aged 12 in the 1891 census:
Thomas DOMAILLE, Son, 12, Southampton West End
living at Leigh, Staffordshire
Father shown as living on own means, with a couple of servants in the household.
Paul
PS
I think emily's right - with a random name we might recruit a few more like Malcolm!
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I think emily's right - with a random name we might recruit a few more like Malcolm!
That's a good point. New recruits are always a good thing!
Rian
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1881 census
Abraham Bland abt 1875 Sale, Cheshire, England Son Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, England
Arthur Bland abt 1877 Sale, Cheshire, England Son Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, England
Eliza Bland abt 1837 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Wife Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, England
Eliza A. Bland abt 1878 Daughter Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, England
Frank Bland abt 1874 Sale, Cheshire, England Son Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, England
John Bland abt 1817 Esholt, Yorkshire, England Head Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, England
John Bland abt 1870 Sale, Cheshire, England Son Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, England
William Bland abt 1871 Sale, Cheshire, England
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Hi all
Don't know if this is connected but thought I'd throw it in anyway.
Guiseley St Oswalds MI's memorials in the churchyard
Sacred to the memory of Samuel Bland of Guiseley, born March 8th 1823, died Jan 10th 1872
and
Wilson Bland, died July 11 1916 aged 64 years. Thirza Bland, died Nov 7th 1917, aged 63 years.
and
To the glory of God and in memory of Private Joseph Clapham, 2nd West Yorkshire Regiment, killed in action at Holland S.A. December 19th 1901, aged 21 years,and of Trooper David Bland, 57th Bucks Imperial Yeomanry, died of enteric, at East London,S.A. December 12th 1901, aged 19 years. This tablet was erected by the inhabitants of Guiseley, April 1904
and found this in a book about the Aireborough District
(published 1988)
APPENDIX 10
ADELAIDE NEILSON
"The loveliest personality that has graced the English stage at any period of time'. Such was the contemporary description of this remarkable Guiseley-bred lady. In her time this world famous actress endeared herself to Americans as few have done since.
Born in Leeds in 1848, Elizabeth Ann Browne, daughter of an unmarried actress(her real father was a Spanish Nobleman), was brought up in Guiseley. Her mother married Mr Bland-- a local painter and decorator. They lived in a house at Greenbottom and she attended the church school and Guiseley Primative Methodist Church. After working a while at Greenbottom Mill she left here as a teenager to make her way in the theatrical world.
This she did with brilliant success, changing her name from Lizzie Bland to Adelaide Neilsen. Universally admired by Americans as ' The most fascinating woman of her day', she possessed great natural beauty,and acting ability as well as a beautiful personality.
She bought he mother a home at 6 Maple terrace, Yeadon. Her marriage with a clergyman, Rev. Lee failed. The brief flower of her life soon faded, however, when she suddenly died in Paris at he age of 32.(The cause of he death was an internal haemorrhage)
She is buried amongst famous persons in Brompton Cemetery London. In America her biography was published... and still today there is an active society in her name. But here in Guiseley she was just another mill worker bearing the stigma of illegitimacy and her name is almost forgotten, even the house in which she lived was demolished when the railway was built leaving no pemanent memorial.
But few have ever climbed from such humble beginnings to such incredible heights as our own, incomparable, Guiseley-bred Lizzie Bland.
JJDownunder
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I'd just like to add my two cents' worth!! :D
I haven't bothered with this thread as it seemed to me rather a pointless exercise. I am with Rian. Pick somebody's real brick wall, and I would really be interested in trying to help a Rootschat mate break it down!!!
MarieC
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Is this famly related?
1861 census - Washway Road, Sale
RG2591
Folio 42
Page 22
Thomas Bland Head 31 Gardener b. Davenham, Cheshire
Anne Bland Wife 31 b. Warburton, Cheshire
Still looking for John.
MR
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I have enjoyed this thread......I think we were fortunate in the choice of person, and the chance of selecting at random another one - and finding a 'new member' - out of the blue, is a bit less likely....
another suggestion - why not pick (at random) a member to provide us with one of their ancestors - this should be some-one they already have a little knowledge about - but the challenge would be to start from scratch on that person and see if we come up with the same information AND ANYTHING NEW........
I sometimes think we go pushing backwards at such a fast pace we overlook somethings under our noses !
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mariec
we are all helping each day for someones brick wall.
this is a challenge and no challenge is pointless to the participants.
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Exactly - each posting is a 'new challenge'
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I much prefer the random nature of this challenge. BUT please feel free to post your brickwalls as there are squadrons of people here to help.
Can I request that in the dying days of April can we leave this thread for the research of the chosen tree. Notifications are being sent to all contributors but the subject has diverged.
Please feel free to start a new thread regarding the challenges on the Lighter Side.
Thanks,
Pam
;D
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1861 census - South Street, Sale
RG2591
Folio 67B
Page 21
Elizabeth Bland Head Widow 65 b. Otley, Yorkshire
John Bland Son Married 44 Gardener b. Esholt, Yorkshire
MR
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Manchester Rambler - you're certainly living up to your name!
You've been walking the streets of Sale to great effect.
Its interesting that John is described as married in 1861, but there's no sign of his wife Eliza. Still, that probably narrows down her date of death a little, if she was still alive in 1861.
-
Death of Elizabeth Bland in Altrincham in September Quarter of 1863 - presumably John's mother?
Three Eliza Bland's showing on freebmd as dying:
Newark, March Q 1862
Doncaster, March Q 1862
Lanaster, March Q 1863
The locations look a little odd but one of these might be John's wife.
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IN SUMMARY, WITH A FEW DAYS LEFT TO GO BEFORE THE CHALLENGE CLOSES...
(Reading the full thread will give more detail)
Subject of Challenge: Abraham BLAND, shown in the 1881 census as living in Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire, born 1875.
What we've learned to date:
Abraham was born 28 December 1874
His parents were:
John BLAND, a gardener, b Esholt, York (b 1817)
Eliza BLAND, b Barnsley, York (b 1837)
He had siblings named:
John(b 1870), William (b 1871), Frank (b 1874), Arthur (b 1877) & Eliza A. (b 1878)
All except Eliza A. shown as being b. Sale, Cheshire.
RG11 3506 fo56 pg43
(Source: 1881 Census, FamilySearch website)
His father had been living in Sale since at least 1871:
John Bland 48 market gardener b Ersholt CORK !!!
Eliza 34 b Barnsley CORK !!!
John 1 b Sale
William 2mths b Sale
(Cork is a mistranscription of York).
By 1891 his father was a landscape gardener...
Bland, Abraham 16 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale Labourer
Bland, Arthur 15 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale
Bland, Eliza 55 Barnsley, Yorkshire Wife Sale
Bland, Eliza 13 Sale, Cheshire Daughter Sale
Bland, Elizabeth 9 Sale, Cheshire Daughter Sale
Bland, Frank 17 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale Under gardener
Bland, John 74 Esholt, Yorkshire Head Sale Landscape gardener
Bland, John 21 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale Railway clerk
Bland, William 20 Sale, Cheshire Son Sale Under gardener
RG12/2825 Folio 104
Abraham's still living at home in 1901 with his parents at 117 Washway Road, Sale. He's become a Railway Fireman.
His Father John is retired
Eliza, his mother doesn't work
Brother John is a Railway Clerk
Brother Arthur is a day gardner
Sister Amy E H is a dressmaker
The age gap between Abraham's father John and his wife alerted us to the fact that this was probably a second marriage.
From Yorkshire BMD, we found the marriage of John BLAND - Eliza BOARDMAN St Mary the Virgin, Hunslet in 1868.
John Bland died aged 86 in 1903. (Cheshire BMD)
Abraham's birth is under Abraham Lionel Gilpin, and sister Eliza's full name is Eliza Amy Helena. (Cheshire BMD)
Eliza Bland (nee Boardman) d 1913.
Abraham emigrated to Canada and worked as a warehouseman in Regina, Saskatchewan.
Brother Frank was also living in Regina when Abraham enlisted in 1916, (he is given as next-of-kin on Abraham's attestation paper) in the Canadian Infantry (Saskatchewan Regiment) as Lionel Gilpin Bland
Service No: 907428.
Private with the 28th Bn.
Died 22nd August 1917
Son of the late John and Eliza Bland, of 117, Washway Rd., Sale, Cheshire, England.
VIMY MEMORIAL, Pas de Calais, France
Abraham's brother Frank is shown on the 1906 census for Regina, Saskatchewan, living at block 181 Scarth Street,
Bland, Frank, head, male, mar, 31, born England, came to Canada 1904,
Clara, wife, Female, mar, 29, England, came to Canada 1904,
Dorothy, Duaghter, female, single, 3, England, came to Canada 1904
Abraham himself is shown in the 1906 census as follows:
Bland, Lionel, servant, male, single, 50, born in England, year of immigration to Canada 1904, post office address Pengarth,
(the age actually looks like it was originally a different number ?20 or 30 with a heavy 5 written over the first digit)
Head Cecil Edmonson, male, single, 23, born England, immigration year 1903,
section 15, range 23, township 23, meridian w, horses 3, cows -, cattle -, sheep -, pigs 1.
From Malcolm Bland, we found that his ancestor John Bland had married previously to Eliza Carpenter, in 1848, but that they had no children he knows of. John was 51 when he remarried, and 64 when he died, by which time he had fathered at least 7 children.
Abraham's mother:
Elizabeth Ann Boardman, christened 6 Jan 1851, Barnsley, Yorkshire. Daughter of Abraham Boardman and Sarah.
Possible sighting of Abraham in 1871 at 6 Bedale Place, Hunslet:
Abraham Boardman, aged 55, born Barnsley, working as a Yarn Maker and living at 6 Bedal Place, Hunslet, Leeds (with wife Sarah, also 55, born Doncaster).
Elizabeth marries John Bland at St Mary's church, Hunslet, on December 31st 1868
A witness at the wedding was Elizabeth Boardman - and there's an EB who marries a John GILPIN in June Qtr 1870 in Hunslet which looks very interesting. This Elizabeth & John appear in the 1871 census as John Gilpen, 23 (a painter and paper hanger, born Barnsley)
Elizabeth A Gilpen, 20 born Leeds, living at 12 Chapman Street, Leeds.
Abraham's grandparents:
From Malcolm we learned that they were William BLAND, a millwright who married Elizabeth SUGDEN in Otley Parish Church in 1816, which is where he is currently stuck. The full story of William's life is on page 9 of this thread.
Malcolm has a few unanswered questions - also shown on his page 9 posting.
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Cecil Edmondson 7 Lancashire Morecambe Lancaster Poulton Bare & Torrisholme
Cecil Edmondson 16 Yorks Barnoldswick Yorkshire Barnoldswick Cotton Furster
1901 census
sylvia
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Births Mar 1899
~~~~~~~~
Bland Gilpin Kendal 10b 719
sylvia
-
Gilpin Bland 2 Westmd Staveley Westmorland Over Staveley
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http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WES/Kentmere/#Church%20Records
Kentmere is a parish in Kendal Ward. It was formerly part of the very large Kendal parish.
History
"Kontmire or Kentmeire, a small Village, famous only for the Birth of that
eminent Person Bernard Gilpin, the Son of Edwin Gilpin, Esq; educated in
Queens College, Oxford, where he proceeded Master of Arts, and was made
MAYBE THIS IS WHY GILPIN
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http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/WES/Kentmere/#Church%20Records
and was made
MAYBE THIS IS WHY GILPIN
Great stuff maidmarian!
Is there a line missing from your post?
cheers
Paul
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sorry i have a bad habit of writing telegram style
it was to say that is maybe the reason for calling him Gilpin
ALTHOUGH THERE ARE MORE WITH THIS CHRISTIAN NAME
SYLVIA
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Marriage 1901 Dec Barton upon Irwell, Lancs
BLAND Frank
HAMPSON Clara
MELLOR Clara
1901 census
417a Stockport Rd Cheadle Cheshire
Frank BLAND boarder S - storekeeper railway loco - b Sale
419 Stockport Rd
MELLOR Clara aged 8 (!! :o )
Now that has to be one of those co-incidence thingies - doesn't it?????? Surely no cradle snatching?
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A person named, Griffin Bland, appears in the World Family Tree Volume 24, which is a collection of family trees that were contributed by Family Tree Maker users and other family history enthusiasts. Each volume of the World Family Tree contains approximately 2,000-6,000 family trees and names of up to 3 million people who lived from the 1600s and earlier to the present.
Bland, Griffin Thomas
World Family Tree: Volume 24
Tree name: Ezell, Hardcastle, Shapard of TN, VA 1637-1994
Tree number: 776
Tree submission date: 24 Mar 1998
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1801 census
??????????????????
william bland head
Crosby Ravensworth, Westmorland, England
81
Landowner
Married
==========================
births William BLAND
parents
JOHN BLAND Family
Mother: ELIZABETH SALKELD
=================
William BLAND Head Male 81 Crosby Ravensworth, Westmorland, England
Mary Ann BLAND Wife Female 44 Askham, Westmorland, England
Emma ATKINSON Serv Female 16 Longmartin, Westmorland, England Domestic Serv
any links
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Abraham Lionel Gilpin Bland found in World Family Tree Volume 55, Tree 259
General location: Unknown Date: 1870-1879
World Family Tree #259
This World Family Tree features these surnames and locations: Bland, James, Stuart, Quinney, Aldcroft, Dixon, Ward, Baron; and FL, Caribbean.
sylvia
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MARRIAGES IN YORK MINSTER
1681 to 1762.
928 Bland Richard Wharton Mary
1570 Bland William Roecliffe Priscilla
640 Bland Wm Wrightson Ann
1526 Sugden Elijah Shaw Elizabeth
1458 Sugden Richard Hide Sarah
263 Sugden Thomas Walker Elizabeth
959 Sugden Wm Vawser Mary
999 Sugden Ann Garland Thomas
511 Sugden Elizabeth Tenant Thomas
614 Bland Ann Davison Thomas
593 Bland Mary Anderson Alexander
YORKSHIRE STRAYS 1851
SUGDEN Harriott M Wife Saltmann/YKS 1827
SUGDIN John Vist Beverly/YKS 1827
sylvia
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Margaret Bentham 20 Grindleton, Yorkshire, England Servant Barnoldswick Yorkshire
Annie Edmondson 46 Harswell, Durham, England Wife Barnoldswick Yorkshire
Cecil W Edmondson 16 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire, England Son Barnoldswick Yorkshire
Chris Charles Edmondson 13 Bingley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnoldswick Yorkshire
James Edmondson 51 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire, England Head Barnoldswick Yorkshire
James Edmondson 17 Barnoldswick, Yorkshire, England Son Barnoldswick Yorkshire
Senora Edmondson 8 Bingley, Yorkshire, England Son Barnoldswick Yorkshire
Thomas H Edmondson 19
sylvia
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Hi
3. It would be good to locate John BLAND and his mother Elizabeth in the 1841, 1851 and 1861 censuses. They should be in Sale by 1851.
1851 HO107-2162-F 250 Cross St. Ashton-on-Mersey Cheshire
Elizabeth Bland head widow 55 domestic service Idle Yorkshire
1851 HO107-2162-F 252 Cross St Ashton on Mersey
John Bland head marr 34 gardener Esholt Yorkshire
Eliza wife 36 Hereford
1861 RG9-2591-F 67 South Street Sale
Elizabeth Bland head wid 65 Otley
John Bland son marr 44 gardener Esholt
Had a good look round Sale for Eliza but did not find her.
peterbennett
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Peter - that's great!
Wonder if Eliza is in hospital at the time of the census? But then she maight be anywhere - visiting rellies out of Manchester.
-
Hi
Just searched the 1841 for both Sale and Ashton but they not there.
Maybe still in Yorkshire ???
peterbennett
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If Malcolm wants to do some modern day research in the Lake District, I know that there is (or was in Sept 2002, I hope he is still alive), a wonderful old man by the name of Jacky Bland living in the village of Troutbeck. He must be in his eighties but he has made the loveliest garden I have seen for years. Now in Troutbeck on the 30th May there is a garden trail of 8 local gardens and I would expect his to be one of the 8. (Contact Joyce Hogarth 015394 45380, or Troutbeck PO).
Just a thought.....
Rian.
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Prisoners, 1881
Walton Gaol H M Prison
Elizabeth BOARDMAN M 40 F Ashton Le Willows, Lancashire, England Rel: Prisoner Occ None
Sarah BOARDMAN M 35 F St Helens, Lancashire, England Rel: Prisoner Occ:
you never know
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What a huge help you have all been. With time running out, I have been conscious of the extra efforts you have been putting in and frustrated that I have been unable to get time on my computer to make my contribution.
Paul, of the three Betty Sugdens that you have found I fancy the Idle one [no jokes about the Idle Working Men’s Club, please], as she is born nearest to Otley [where she was married], Guiseley [where her sons were christened], and Esholt [where her sons were born]. As the crow flies it is only 2 km from Idle to Esholt and 5.5 km from Esholt to Otley. Interestingly, you say that one of the Bettys may have had a sister named Hannah. I believe that I mentioned that I found a John Sugden, Millwright, married to a Hannah Blackberry in Otley in 1792, who I guessed could be the parents of Elizabeth Sugden who married William Bland, millwright, in Otley in 1816. Is it the Idle Betty Sugden whose sister may be Hannah?
As far as I know, JJDownUnder, the names you have found in Guiseley are not related to my Blands but I shall keep them on file in case they fit into the jigsaw later. However, I have decided to ring at Guiseley this Friday. I rang at Otley last year and I shall ring at Hunslet sometime soon. I called at Guiseley church a few weeks back but it was locked. On Friday I hope that entry to the tower is through the church, in which case I shall be able to photograph the font at which John and William Bland were christened!
The 1861 census for Washway Road showing Thomas Bland, gardener, is both puzzling and exciting, MR. Coincidence? Definitely one for the files! I was also delighted to be given Elizabeth Bland, born Otley circa 1796 and living in South Street, Sale. As I have said, I searched the Otley register of births from 1796 to 1804 but did not see her. Either she was not there or I missed her [I don’t think so], or she was not born in Otley. I have four consecutive census details for my wife’s grandmother and she gave a different birthplace on each one! And none of them was correct! Idle is about 5 miles from Otley and she may have moved there when very young. In any case, Paul has suggested that an Elizabeth Bland who died in Altrincham in 1863 may be John’s wife. I need to send for this certificate. How old was she when she died, Paul? A family story says that “Betty Bland died aged 70, choked on a cherry stone”. I may find the truth in this story now.
I’m not convinced by the argument that because John Bland says that he is married in 1861, Eliza [neeCarpenter], is still alive. When he remarries in 1868 he claims to be a bachelor; aged 46! He is, of course a widower aged 51! I have searched for her death from 1847 but cannot find my notes now! I seem to remember that there were a few candidates.
Aha!! Peter Bennet seems to have answered to the birthplace of John’s mother. ”1851 census, Cross Street, Ashton on Mersey, Elizabeth Bland, 55, widow, born IDLE. This suggests that she was born in 1796 [as we thought], but in Idle not Otley, as she stated 10 years later. Q.E.D. I shall send for that birth certificate. It also ties in with the 1847 marriage certificate which gives John’s address as Ashton Mersey, Cheshire.
Peter also cannot find John in Ashton or Sale in 1841 so he moved there after 1841 but before 1847. That narrows things down. I wonder where he was in 1841? Could he still be in the Guiseley/Eshton area? Has anyone access to the 1841 census for that area?
Thanks for the Edmonson information, Sylvia, and you have found the marriage of Frank Bland & Clara Mellor. However, you have also found my rather out of date family tree posted by me via Family Tree Maker some years ago. I now have 81 surnames and over 300 family members listed.
If only I could work out how to post pictures on this site! As time is now VERY short, I don’t suppose I could e-mail some to a clever member and ask him/her to post them for me, while I try pathetically to understand the technology?
Thanks again for all your efforts. I can now move back another generation [possibly two generations], along my Sugden line.
Malcolm
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Hi Martin
The 1863 Elizabeth Bland death has no age given, so it woud be a bit of a gamble: Altrincham Vol 8a p115
The Betty Sugden information (and why oh why does this sound like a character out of Monty Python? :)) was from the IGI so it should be possible to click on the batch number to reveal the 'possible' Hannah sibling. I don't think it was the Idle one, Martin - more likely to have been one of the Bradford ones.
Well, times running out for our first Challenge... maybe there's a final push to be had though? :)
Paul
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Hi Malcolm.
Can you lay out for us what your most wanted points still are for the last few days so maybe we can concentrate on those rather than all looking for different things.
I know you did this already but a few days ago.
If you put in order maybe and we try and work down the list if anything gets found.
Just an idea
Kev.
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6. Pte L G BLAND was killed on Hill 70 on 21st/22nd August 1917 fighting for the 28th Battalion [195th Unit] Canadian Expeditionary Forces. I am desperate to discover whether he was in A, B, C or D Company as I have the Captains’ handwritten reports of that night’s action but don’t know which Company he was with. I have a fairly full service record for him.
Malcolm Bland
Hi Malcolm,
If your Lionel BLAND served in the 28th Battalion C.E.F. as a reinforcement from the 195th Battalion (aka: 95th Saskatchewan Rifles aka: Royal Regina Rifles), I think the following link suggests that he served in Company B.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely, Donna
http://www.regiments.org/regiments/na-canada/warformed/inf-cef/028bn.htm
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http://www.collectionscanada.ca/02/02010602_e.html
~~~~~~~~
name dob regimentl
number ref----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1 BLAND , LIONEL GILPIN 28/12/1874 907428 RG 150, Box 813 - 30
sylvia
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The 1863 Elizabeth Bland death has no age given, so it woud be a bit of a gamble: Altrincham Vol 8a p115
Cheshire BMD gives Elizabeth's age as 69 - odd that Free BMD has nothing!
MR
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Thanks MR - a reminder to myself that I should consult the County BMDs a bit more frequently! :)
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Bland, Abraham Lionel G
Births
March
1875
Altrincham
Cheshire
8a
Page:
1901 CENSUS
Amy E H Bland 22 Sale, Cheshire, England Daughter Sale Cheshire
Arthur Bland 24 Sale, Cheshire, England Son Sale Cheshire
Eliza Bland 65 Barnsley, Yorkshire, England Wife Sale Cheshire
Jno Bland 84 Oulton, Yorkshire, England Head Sale Cheshire
John Bland 31 Sale, Cheshire, England Son Sale Cheshire
Lionel A G Bland 26 Sale, Cheshire, England Son Sale Cheshire
JUST A FEW MEANDERINGS
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Maidmarion - your meanderings are adding to the pot nicely! :)
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Hi Malcolm,
If your Lionel BLAND served in the 28th Battalion C.E.F. as a reinforcement from the 195th Battalion (aka: 95th Saskatchewan Rifles aka: Royal Regina Rifles), I think the following link suggests that he served in Company B.
I hope this helps.
Sincerely, Donna
What a cracking site, Donna, thanks. It does ideed point to Company B. I shall see whether I can confirm this. This is very exciting.
I already had Capt Hewitt's story of the Regiment and had borrowed, from The British Library, The Journal of Private Fraser, who fought with the 28th right through The Great War.
MR, the age of Betty Bland is a huge clue. I shall send for this certificate and mention the birthplace and the maiden name. That should identify the lady and save the cost of an incorrect certificate.
Malcolm
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Hi Donna
Now, if we just had a photo of Lionel on a street corner somewhere in Saskatchewan... :) :) :)
Paul
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Hi Donna
Now, if we just had a photo of Lionel on a street corner somewhere in Saskatchewan... :) :) :)
Paul
I HAVE a photo of Lionel in Saskatchewan ... I just can't load the *** thing on this site!
Malcolm
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Hi Malcolm,
if you click on additional options when you are writing the post then you can search for the image file and then it should post it.
If you preview it though you then seem to have to add the file again.
Emily
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Hi Malcolm
You'll see from this thread (started by Donna!) how obsessional we can get about photographs!
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,53163.0.html
;)
Paul
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hopefull oops
Bland Betty 1838 March Marriages Keighley West Riding of Yorkshire
Bland Betty 1839 June " Keighley "
Bland Betty 1841 December Deaths Keighley "
Bland Betty 1842 June Births Garstang Lancashire
Bland Betty 1857 March Deaths
Bland Betty 1865 March " Keighley West Riding of Yorkshire
Bland Betty 1866 September Marriages Bradford "
Bland Betty 1868 June Deaths Keighley "
Bland Betty 1868 March " Ashton under Lyne Cheshire Lancashire
Bland Betty 1873 September " Bradford West Riding of Yorkshire
Bland Betty 1885 June " Preston Lancashire
Bland Betty 1890 June " Halifax West Riding of Yorkshire West Yorkshire
Bland Betty 1896 December Births Preston Lancashire
Bland Betty Alison 1905 September " Cardiff Glamorgan Monmouthshire
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hopefull
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i did it
sorry about picture
but someone on the notts derby border will recognize it
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After over an hour, again, of sheer frustration I have still not been able to load a photograph. This in spite of following Berlin Bob's four pages of instructions to the letter!
I have sent two photos to Maid Marion who has kindly offered to post them for me.
As for the final push, how ironic that phrase is regarding poor Abraham whose only clamber 'over the top' was his last' one question still to be solved about him is when he sailed to Canada. We know that it was in 1904 but my efforts to find him on a passenger list has failed so far. I would love to know what ship took him and whether he went with his brother Frank. The embarcation port was probably Liverpool but I am not sure where passengers for Saskatchewan would disembark. I suspect Halifax.
For the record, he came back to England with the 28th Battalion CEF on the SS Empress of Britain, leaving Halifax on 1st November 1916 and arriving at Liverpool on 11th November 1916 and, from there was taken to Sandling Barracks in Kent. From Sandling he wrote:
"I am considered too old to go to the front this winter, so will will try to go to France to work on the locomotives, as I would prefer to work at that than doing fatigues all winter; viz. making roads and other labouring work around the camp. I went to Hythe and Folkestone last Saturday. We can see France from the camp and I heard the big guns yesterday."
In the Spring of 1917 he wrote:
"I received your parcel all right yesterday, it had been knocked about a bit but the only damage was 1 egg smashed up, 1 slightly cracked and 1 soup tablet broken up. The 3 eggs were a real treat, as it was such a long time since I had one, we do not get eggs as part of our rations in the army. The tablets will last me until I get out of quarentine & then I expect we will be sent to France. Thanks for the Manchester newspapers. The war news is very good these days, all being in favour of the Allies. In fact it looks as if it will be nearly all over by the time we get across."
I just thought these words would bring Lionel [who signs himself "Len" on both letters, a little more to life for all you who have honoured his memory by taking an interest in his life. "Lest we forget". He left no children to mourn him or to remember him.
Malcolm
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Hi Malcolm,
I don't know if this is the problem, I've just added it to my thread:
WARNING, please note:
Allowed file types: txt, jpg, jpeg, gif, pdf, mpg, png, ged.
Maximum attachment size allowed: 300 KB
If it is, try re-sizing or converting to another format.
If it wasn't:
What error messages are you getting ??
Bob
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Bob,
Snap, I was thinking about the file size. I know I have inadvertently tried in the past with a larger than acceptable file size, it just hangs and hangs ... no error messages I don't think.
Hope that helps.
Jonathan
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Hi Donna
Now, if we just had a photo of Lionel on a street corner somewhere in Saskatchewan... :) :) :)
Paul
Hee!, Paul,
I still have a song in my heart and a dance in my step after the amazing find re: my photo!
Oh! I'm so happy to be a help, Malcolm! Now, if I could just find which platoon and section... :)
Happy day everyone, Donna
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As Malcom is busy on his advanced image adding MSc, here are the BLANDs...
From Malcom...
Back L-R:
John, William [my grandfather], Frank and Abraham Lionel Gilpin.
Middle L-R: Eliza [their mother], John [their father, born 1817], William's wife Alice Berry with their elder son, Leonard on her knee].
Front L-R: Frank's wife Clara Mellor, Agnes [Abraham's younger sister].
I think that this may be Leonard's christening photo, 1901, and was obviously not taken by a professional so I suspect another of the siblings took it! Therefore probably Amy of Arthur.
Me again...
Malcom has also sent the photo of Len on his farm, if by popular demand you want it posted I'll post but I thought it would be nice to post it on the last day of April.
Pam
;D
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Feel as if we know them already! :)
Yes, Pam - nice idea to post it at the end of the Challenge!
Paul
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What a great photo. Although I haven't contributed to this great thread/story I've been keeping track and it's good to see the faces. A handsome bunch indeed.
Regards
Jonathan
p.s. wonder if deadants and the other photo fix experts will want to have a go at a repair jobby ... ;D
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Hi,
going back to his military service
Lionel Bland served with the 28th Battalion of the CEF
The digital images of the war diaries for this Battalion can be found here
http://www.collectionscanada.ca/archivianet/02015202_e.html
enter 28th battalion and the year 1917 (year of Lionel's death) and you will be taken to the war diaries for that period.
Sue
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Thanks for posting my photo, Pam, I tried again later in the day but, as Bob suggested, the file size is too great. I have downloaded the recommended image changer but I cannot get it to reduce the Kb. Apparently I need to download something else and I have not been successful with that so far.
By all means post the second picture. I had planned to crop the head & shoulders of 'Len' from the family portrait which you have already posted, for the final day [if I can get that right]!
Thanks for the War Diary site, Sue. I had found it and downloaded it several months back, which is why I wanted to know which company 'Len' was with. It makes harrowing reading. They were poorly equipped and, as I thought, buried their dead on the battlefield.
Back to an earlier posting. I had mentioned that an Elizabeth Boardman was a witness at the wedding of Abraham's parents, John Bland and Eliza Boardman. Someone found an Elizabeth Boardman who married a John Gilpin in the same church 2 years later. Who are we suggesting this Elizabeth Boardman is? Eliza's sister? Not impossible. John and Eliza's two daughters were named Eliza Amy Helena and Elizabeth Agnes. However, why would John and Eliza suddenly call their fourth child Abraham Lionel Gilpin [the 3rd name being his aunt's husband's surname]? Curious. On the other hand, this extract comes from a story which originated from the writings of Eliza Amy Helena Bland:
"John wanted to be his own master. He put greenhouses on his cultivated plots. Victoria Nursery as he called it was in Hesketh Road, off Washway Road, Ashton on Mersey. He also had a stall at Manchester market. Quite a large undertaking. Wet seasons and bad debts proved to be John BLAND's downfall. Eliza BLAND often found it hard to find the school money needed for the children. During the most deprived years, offers to adopt three of the children were made from the children's relatives. Who, one wonders?"
Did Elizabeth & John Gilpin offer to adopt John, William and Frank? Did Lionel Gilpin get his name out of parental gratitude?
I would be very interested to hear your thoughts about this.
Malcolm
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Here's the other photo from Malcom.
There is a message on the back which has been written by Len's niece.
"Uncle Lionel with his bullocks in Canada. Uncle volunteered to join the Canadian Forces in World War 1. He was killed in one of the great land battles - but I don't know whether it was Ypres, The Somme, Passchendale or The Marne where he was killed after a shell exploded. He was one of the soldiers who had no known grave. He was a brave man who volunteered [sic] to come from Canada to fight for the Motherland. He was over the age to be conscripted. He was mother's favourite brother."
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great to see you have mastered the photo lark.
i wonder why nobody in photos at this time' said cheese'
i have about 10 old school group photos and none of the children were smiling.
early 1900s
sylvia
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Re: Len and his Saskatchewan Homestead
Question: Why was Lionel listed as a Servant on the 1906 census?
I'll bet: He was a hired man for his neighbour in return for a roof over his head. Later, Cyril Edmondson and 'Servant' Thomas Domaille would help Lionel build his own home... and so on... and...
Question: Why was Lionel listed as a workman rather than a farmer on his enlistment to the 195th Battalion CEF?
A possible reason is that these young, single homesteaders would often look for a winter job whilst the neighbour minded the farm...
I've found a book for you, Malcolm. (I'll paste the link below.) The picture that I'm attaching (hopefully) is better viewed Page 272.
Page 297 mentions Lionel's land location that you already know.
http://www.nosracines.ca/f/toc.asp?id=2786
Edited for Post Script
P.S. I meant to mention that I have asked for the book to come to me via inter-library loan which takes a few weeks for me to receive out here in the boonies! I can page through the hard copy to find any jewels. (Your Len has become one of my family!) Also... Under "E' in the online copy, (where 'Edmondson' should appear as a Family Name)there is a pic with the caption, 'Cyril Edmondson.
Smilie faces, Donna
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Eliza Frances Bland
Address Sandown Terrace
Enumeration district: Wavertree
County Lancashire
Birth Yorkshire, England, Leeds
16
Female
House Ser
1851 census
just in case
sylvia
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Births Sep 1862
SUGDEN Betty Keighley 9a 473
Deaths Sep 1867
WILD CARDS
Sugden Betty 68 Keighley 9a 126
Deaths Sep 1870
Sugden Betty 77 Bradford Yk 9b 156
Deaths Dec 1872
Sugden Betty 58 Keighley 9a 135
Deaths Jun 1874
Sugden Betty 73 Rochdale 8e 29
Deaths Dec 1879
Sugden Betty 68 Burnley 8e 187
Deaths Jun 1882
Sugden Betty 64 Keighley 9a 142
SYLVIA
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Might come in useful, from 1861 Census, 8 Victoria St, Idle:
Abraham Bland, b 1826 Baildon, Yorkshire, Worsted Power Loom Weaver, Head
Harriet Bland, b 1824 Perston Jaglin, Yorkshire, Wife
cheers
Paul
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With just over 24 hours left here's the full farm picture.
Does anyone know what the crop looks like?
I don't think my suggestion of Canneloni is right ??? ;D
Pam
;D
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Bamboo canes? Perhaps not!
Jill
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If them's bean sticks, he's growing a hefty bean crop. :o
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Typhoo Tea-pees?? ;D ;D
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could be sugar cane
sylvia
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There are two crops. Whatever the conical piles of 'sticks' are and the crop in the foreground. Could the latter be alfalfa?
I had a most enjoyable ring at Guiseley last night. The church dates back to the 13th century but was vastly 'restored' and enlarged in 1909. Sadly the font looked like a 1909 replacement and so not the one in which Abraham's dad was christened in 1817. Also the bells had been recast in 1946, so my Blands could not have heard them.
I took a photo of the memorial to Trooper David Bland; in case he turns out to be a relative.
Malcolm
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Agriculture Canada / Brandon Research Station 1886-1986
... Rapeseed had rapidly gained prominence as Canada's Cinderella crop. ...
The first phase occurred in the early 1900s when the crop was introduced into ...
early canola
sylvia
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I just found this thread on page 10 and have thoroughly enjoyed watching things develop.
I have a very elusive brickwall - can rootschatters please find my brick wall next please please pleeeeeeeeeeeeeeze??
note that I'm down on knees & begging LOL ;D
I'll be happy to note what info I do know.
BD
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I believe that we're looking at the logs that Lionel has cleared from the land... probably the tall, skinny poplar tree. (Looks like the wagon deck is made from them.) Lionel will use them for burning and building.
The crop (?) in the foreground is a good question! One plant (bottom left corner) looks like oats. The rest could possibly be alfalfa... but, Lionel would most likely grow wheat on his breaking. Maybe weeds?
Donna
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It's still April 30th in my country!
Lionel enlisted as a volunteer for World War 1 in the City of Regina. Even though Pengarth, Saskatchewan (his homestead area) is no longer a spot on the Sask map... somewhere there is a cenotaph with his name engraved. Every little hamlet/village/town in Saskatchewan has a Cenotaph... no matter how small the population was.
I would like to include this link as a respectful gesture to 'Len' and also to Malcolm.
I believe that this link is fairly new... thus will have many updates in the future.
Donna
http://www.cdli.ca/monuments/sk/saskat2.htm
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Well said Donna!
Paul
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oops
this is ???????????????????????
sugarcane
okay its late
sylvia
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As a Rootschatter I have really enjoyed this thread I think it is a testament to the knowledge and expertise of all the contributers and good fun t'boot.
Malcom sent me this to post he's having PC problems...
May I take this opportunity to Thank all who have read this thread, done some research and posted comments.
This has been an extraordinary month for me. All of a sudden I find dozens of kindly souls working with me to solve mysteries surrounding one area of my family history.
Suddenly cloudy areas are clarified, new ideas are put forward and gaps are filled in.
I also believe that I have found some friends out there who I may never meet but with whom I expect I shall continue to correspond on mutually interesting matters of family history.
What happens now?
I hope that there will be some way in which I can report back in the future. I have a number of certificates to purchase
and a visit to make to Idle. These are as a direct result of members' discoveries. It would be good to be able to tell them of the results.
I am one of your most junior members but, for what it is worth, I agree with Rian. A member's brick wall chosen at random would give someone a huge amount of help and pleasure and it may be kept on course by what the member already knows.
I certainly can never thank you all enough for all you have done for me, but I hope I can repay some of your kindness' by
contributing in the future.
Good luck in all your own personal quests!
Malcolm
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I don't know about you, but I found that quite moving...
:'( :'(
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And in conclusion to this challenge...A biography from Malcolm.
Abraham Lionel Gilpin BLAND
[/b]
Abraham L G Bland was born on Monday 28th December 1874. He was the fourth child, all boys, of John Bland and his second wife Eliza Boardman.
Both John's wives were called Eliza! His elder brothers all had single names; John, William and Frank, but Abraham received three names, Abraham Lionel Gilpin.
Letters written by him to his brother and sister, John and Agnes, are signed Len and I shall use this name in the following short biography.
Three more children were born to John and Eliza Bland at 117 Washway Road, Sale, Cheshire. They were Arthur [note the return to the single name for boys], Eliza Amy Helena and Elizabeth Agnes. The girls used the names Amy and Agnes.
Little is known of Len's childhood but family tradition suggests that the family were so poor at one stage that a relative offered to adopt three of the children.
Bearing in mind the fact that his father, John, progressed from being a gardener to become a jobbing gardener and, finally, a landscape gardener and that he had a nursery and a stall on Manchester market, this poverty seems a little surprising.
It was also likely to have been a strict upbringing as Len's father was a strict Sabbatarian. Weekend meals were cooked on Saturday and Sunday's meals were cold as John would countenance no work being done on the Sabbath.
At sixteen Len was working as a labourer but he moved on to work as a locomotive fireman. His eldest brother, John, was a railway clerk and elder brother, Frank, became a railway store man. William and Arthur followed in their father's footsteps and became gardeners.
By 1901, only John, Len [aged 26], Arthur and Amy still lived at home. Frank boarded in Cheadle, William was married and Agnes was a live-in housemaid in Ashton upon Mersey. A photo has been posted showing the family at this time.
For some reason both Len, 29, and Frank, 30, emigrated to Canada in 1904, possibly together. They certainly kept in close touch in Canada but their lives took different paths.
Frank became an accountant with a leading Regina legal firm but as early as November in the year that he had emigrated, Len had laid claim to a parcel of land at Pengarth, north of Regina. It therefore seems likely that Len emigrated on some sort of assisted passage subsidised by the Canadian government to attract settlers.
In 1905, Len broke six acres of land on his homestead. Mysteriously he did no work at all on his land the following year, 1906, but he is recorded as living in the home of an adjacent homesteader, Cecil Edmonson, and described as a servant.
In 1907 Len broke 10 acres and cropped 6 acres on his own homestead. By this time he had also built himself, probably with neighbourly help, a 10 x 12 frame house, an 18 x 20 sod stable and had acquired 3 horned cattle. A photo of Len at this time has also been posted.
In August 1908 Len was granted a patent for his homestead, having complied with all the requirements of the Dominion Lands Act.
For the next eight years nothing else is known. It may be that for the diminutive fair-haired, blue-eyed Len Bland who stood only 5 foot 7" inches in his stocking feet and had only a modest 34 inch chest, homesteading proved to be too arduous, but in 1916 he was working as a warehouseman and living at 862 Angus Street, Regina.
On March 20th, at the age of 41, Lionel Gilpin Bland joined the Canadian Expeditionary Forces. So began the final chapter of his life. After six month's basic training he sailed on 1st November 1916 with the 28th Battalion CEF bound for England.
He spent the winter of 1916 and the spring of 1917 in Sandling Camp in Kent. Two letters home confirm this and he probably got home to Cheshire at some time because his niece Marjorie, Amy's daughter born 1911, remembered seeing her uncle Lionel off to war.
On 21st June 1917 he was posted overseas and attached to the 2nd Canadian Ent [?] Battalion with the rank of Acting Sergeant. On 11th August he left this battalion and returned, as a Private, to his own unit the 195th [Regina] in 28th Battalion to enter the battle for Vimy Ridge.
With these men, only six days later, Len went over the top to attempt to capture a small eminence known only as Hill 70 on the night of 21st/22nd August.
The Germans, by coincidence also launched an attack at this time and, quite unexpectedly, the two forces meet each other in hand to hand fighting in No Man's Land.
A note on Len's army record states:
Reported missing, now for all official purposes presumed to have died on or since 22nd August 1917.
He left no wife, he left no children and he was probably buried where he lay on Hill 70.
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continued...
His name, Pte L G Bland, appears, with the names of 60,000 other brave Canadian soldiers on the monument at Arras.
He has no known grave.
Let us now praise famous men, and our fathers in their generations. There are some of them who have left a name, so that men declare their praise. And there are some who have no memorial, who have perished as though they had not lived; they have become as though they had not been
born. Ecclesiasticus 44:7-9
Thank you for honouring his memory with your interest and research.
Abraham Lionel Gilpin BLAND
[/b]
1874 ~ 1917
[/b]
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On that note, and with thanks to everyone who has contributed to this challenge, I have locked this thread. If and when Malcolm wishes to add to this as his researches continue, he can PM myself or the moderators and we wll gladly lend him the key!
In the meantime, Rootschatters' skill and judgement are needed at The May Challenge, so kindly set by emily...
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,54333.0.html
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Sorry Paul - I need to sneak just one more post on this thread even though you've locked it!
That's to say a big thank you to you for the brilliant idea and for all you add to RootsChat. It is appreciated. :D
Keep up the good work! ;)
Best wishes
Ticker