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Scotland (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Scotland => Stirlingshire => Topic started by: PWN on Tuesday 16 November 10 14:14 GMT (UK)
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Can anyone advise me regarding these old streets in Stirling. I have my maternal great grandparents at various addresses over 30 year period. Last Saturday I went to Stirling to try and find the following addresses.
44 Baker Street - Obviously demolished and new flats built
24 Broad Street - still there
30, 44 and 48 Broad Street - No sign of them and I cannot see where they might have been.
Does anyone know where these numbers were in Broad Street?
Regards
PWN
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I was born and brought up in Baker Street and can remember No 44 very well, in fact I remember the night it was on fire. It was demolished not long after that.
This was in the mid- fifties if my memory is correct, the fire started on the top landing in a coal bunker, when the ashes from a house fire were placed there.
The Mills family lived there, as did the Feeley's, Johnnie Hills pawn shop was at the back of the close, and I think I'm right by saying auld Annie Cowane lived there as well. I'm not sure of the other families.
I'll look amongst my collection and see if I have a pic of the old tenement, but im not sure.
44 does have one claim to fame though, William Harvey who would later become a writer and newspaper editor of Leng Thomson (people's friend ) was born there.
As for Broad Street, I'm sure someone here will be able to help, not me unfortunately, I am a 'Bakie' not a 'Broadie.'
I lived at No.23 in the household buildings.
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Thank you so much, Stirling76. Your description of 44 Baker Street and what happened to it are most interesting. My grandmother Robina Gilchrist was born there in 1891..before your time. A photo would be brilliant.
I am researching James Gilchrist and family (24 and 48 Broad St), Daniel Blair and family and his brother-in-law John Livingstone (24, 30 and 44 Broad St) between 1880's and 1915 approx. John Livingstone was a chemist/druggist at 58 Baker Street for about 30 years until his death in 1912.
I am guessing that 30, 44 and 48 Broad Street must have been somewhere behind 24/26 Broad Street but it would be wonderful if someone could confirm this.
Thanks again for your info. Kind regards, PWN
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I think I'm right by saying auld Annie Cowane lived there as well. .
That was a nice wee snippet of info 'stirling76'
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/CowanWeeAnnie.jpg)
Wee Annie was my mothers auntie.
I would be most interested in any photos of the area that you would care to share.
Cheers.
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Hi Fergie38
What a great photo..full of character!
Regards
PWN
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Hi PWN
Wee Annie was apparently quite a character.
Regretfully I never met her.
Cheers.
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Fergie,
that's a wonderful photo, just as I remember her, never without a heidscarf and a pinny, I knew her and her son very well, I'm sure after the fire they moved to Dalgleish court just round the corner.
I can't wait to forward the pic to my sisters.
Now Annie's son Jimmy, although everyone knew him as Chang Cowan, he was some character! and that's an understatement! Chang was some man.
I remember being a young child and my mother took my sisters and me to the regal to see Annie Get Your Gun, when we got home, the door was locked and father in a drunken sleep and no amount of knocking would waken him. Mum said to me, go across to Mrs Cowan's and tell Jimmy we were locked out!
Off I went across the road and told Chang what had happened and he came back with me. Out of his pocket came some tool, I think it was a long chisel, 10 seconds later the door jamb was prised out and the yale latch pushed in and the door opened and we got in. I think you can tell from that what profession Chang was known for, he was our local burglar! But what a nice man, years later whenever I met him he would always have time for me and have a chat, he was a pal of my brother.
I met him many years later in the 70's and he told me a great story,
do you remember when Johnny Ramensky fell of the roof when trying to break into the strongrooms in Stirling. Well, he wasn't alone, Chang was keeping the look out down below when Johnny fell, Chang checked he was breathing and scarpered, what the books don't tell you was that someone phoned the polis to tell them a man was hurt.
Seemingly Chang knew Johnny from old, probably met him in Jail somewhere, and told him about this safe waiting to be opened!
Poor Chang he had a hard time with his own family years later, it really broke his heart, but that's another story.
Stewart
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Stirling76.
Brilliant.
I've copied your posting as is and pasted onto Wee Annies info page in 'Family Tree Maker'.
Thanks a lot.
Fergie.
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I've looked through all my collection of pics of Baker Street and I can't believe I don't have a good pic of number 44. So that's set me a task to find one, looking down Bank Street to Morris Terrace would show it, so I'll see what turns up.
Meanwhile this is a pic taken just about 44, you can just see it at the right hand side in the forefront of the pic.
Those who know Baker street will remember Nimmo's shop shown here, on the corner of Bank Street, but if you look you will see there is no Morris Terrace on the right, there is no break in the road.
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Nimmo’s shop. The only place that sold ‘Piece Tins’.
A metal two piece box of the correct size and shape to take four slices of Scottish plain bread.
I remember buying one there when aged sixteen and first went ‘underground’ at Millhall.
Fergie.
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I think I'm right by saying auld Annie Cowane lived there as well. .
That was a nice wee snippet of info 'stirling76'
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/CowanWeeAnnie.jpg)
Wee Annie was my mothers auntie.
I would be most interested in any photos of the area that you would care to share.
Cheers.
She might be wee Annie but i don,t think i would have gone home with a pound missing from the wage packet!
Billy.
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Many many thanks! I am absolutely thrilled to see this photo (and any others you can find)
Wonder what year this was taken?
I very much appreciate your help.
Kind regards
PWN
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when aged sixteen and first went ‘underground’ at Millhall.
Fergie.
I went to the 'Manor'
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Can anyone advise me regarding these old streets in Stirling. I have my maternal great grandparents at various addresses over 30 year period. Last Saturday I went to Stirling to try and find the following addresses.
44 Baker Street - Obviously demolished and new flats built
24 Broad Street - still there
30, 44 and 48 Broad Street - No sign of them and I cannot see where they might have been.
Does anyone know where these numbers were in Broad Street?
Regards
PWN
PWN, I've had a wee bit of time on my hand and have got this, its from 1926 and was the new (present development of Broad Street) the old side was demolished before then, I have some pics from 1900 showing the buildings.
Anyway, I put it some numbers of the buildings, so I think you should be able to tell what building were the numbers your looking for.
Remember, these tenements were accessed from closes (vennals) and they can be seen easily in this map, thats where you might be getting mixed up with the numbers.
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Hi Stirling76
Brilliant info..at last I am beginning to get my bearings! I just wish it was all still there to see it as it was. I suppose it would be renovated and conserved nowadays and not just demolished.
I am still trying to 'walk' in my Granny's footsteps but you have given me the lead with a few 'footsteps'!
The family name is Gilchrist and her father James was a plasterer. He did a fair bit of work on the intricate ceiling cornicing in some of the 'big posh hoosies' as my Granny described them to me in King's Park area.
Any other photos would be much appreciated but I do thank you for the time you have taken so far to give me this info.
Kind regards
PWN
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PWN - This should sort you out, use it with the map above.
52 Broad Street
Large four-storeyed house with harled walls and crow-stepped gables. The low-arched pend retains its original cobbles and water-runnel and there is a good turnpike tower in the back wall. Adjoining the house to the west, at No. 54, are two attractive gate pillars.
48 Broad Street
Plain three-storeyed harled house. A long wing runs up the close behind, at the end of which is an interesting octagonal gazebo or garden house. No. 46 has been rebuilt (in a pleasant classical style) but retains an interesting seventeenth-century building on the back-land which may be seen from the court at No. 44.
36-38 Broad Street
Handsome four-storeyed house with twin crowstepped gables towards the street. The ground floor is vaulted and the pend leads to an interesting close behind containing a square staircase tower. The house formed the town ludging of the family of Graham of Panholes, by whom it was probably erected in the early seventeenth century. The adjoining house to the west, although quite plain, forms a sympathetic neighbour to this frontage, which remains one of the most attractive architectural features of Old Stirling.
30-32 Broad Street
Extremely interesting house with symmetrical renaissance frontage of squared ashlar. The building is of four main storeys surmounted by a high crowstepped gable. The ground floor, now used as a shop, has a deep cornice supported by elaborately carved pilasters. On each of the three upper floors are three evenly spaced windows, the side ones being blind. The windows have pediments inscribed as follows:
on the third floor, I R . 1671 . A L
on the second floor, I N . SOLI DEO GLORIA ("Glory to God Alone") . A R
on the first floor, ARBOR VITAE SAPIENTIA ("Wisdom is the tree of life") . MURUS AHENEUS : BONA CONSCIENTIA ("A good conscience is a brazen wall")
The initials on the second floor refer to James Norie, Town Clerk of Stirling, and Agnes Robertson, his wife.
The ground floor of the house is vaulted, and the rooms on the upper floors are panelled. In the close behind entered from No. 30, is a long wing with a turnpike stair and dormer windows.
24-26 Broad Street.
Four-storeyed house refronted towards the street. The line of the original frontage is marked by the arch inside the pend at No. 24. The crowstepped stair tower at the back is one of the finest of its period, and there is also a long wing with crowstepped gable and three round-headed dormer windows. The property belonged to Robert Stevenson Provost of Stirling in 1656, and is thought to have been built by him about the year 1630.
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Hi Stirling76
Re. Broad Street - I have got a much better understanding now between the Street Plan and the individual 'close' descriptions. Great detail. Thank you for clarifying this for me.
Re. Baker Street - I have just discovered that we had a John Livingstone who was a Chemist/Druggist and had his shop at number 58 Baker Street for about 30 years until he died in 1912. I don't think he ever married. Familiar to anyone?
Again, many thanks.
Kind regards
PWN
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Hi I have a relative who apparently died in the Miner's Welfare Institute in Baker St. Does anyone know where that was?
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Stirling 76 thanks for that photo of Baker St.My great great grandfather was a shoemaker at number 32 in 1881.
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Stirling 76 thanks for that photo of Baker St.My great great grandfather was a shoemaker at number 32 in 1881.
Seoras, this is a list of Boot, shoemakers in Stirling in 1881, is your g.g. grandfather there?
Boot and Shoemakers.
Bauchop, David, 9 Upper Craigs
Baiichop. Edward, 35 Murray place
Boswell,'W., 18 Baker street
Gumming, Wright, 16 Bow street
Dalgetty, Henry, 97 Baker street
Ferguson, Hugh, 79 King street
Gillespie, Wm., 77 Port street
Gilmour, David, 56 Baker street
Glover, Wm. , 12 Baker street
Gray, T. A., 8 Baker street
Low, Thomas, 4 Baker street
Maciivean, John, 4 Barnton place
Macintosh, John, 27 Murray pi. ; house
15 Douglas street
Mains, Thomas, 3 Bow street
Marshall, David Campbell, 30 Port st. M'Donna, Peter W., 51 Baker street
Page, .John, 7 Church wynd
Pate Brothers, 35 Baker street
Smith, Gabriel, King street
Stewart, John, 3 Friars street ; house 75
King street
Stoddart, J. M., 60 Port street
Vance, John, 1 Port street
Watson, Wm., 17 Upper Craigs ; house
3 George street
Stirling76
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Hi Stirling76
Re. Baker Street - I have just discovered that we had a John Livingstone who was a Chemist/Druggist and had his shop at number 58 Baker Street for about 30 years until he died in 1912. I don't think he ever married. Familiar to anyone?
PWN, re John Livingstone, his shop was at 58 Baker Street, but he lived at 44 Broad Street, not sure if you knew this.
Stirling 76
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That clears something up Stirling 76.He (James Stein) isn't on there but I can see where he was working.At number 35 are his brothers-in-law the Pate's.They and his wife were the children of John Pate also a shoemaker in Linlithgow.All of them originally came from Linlithgow.James' son John was also a shoemaker in Glasgow.
ps.thanks for that list,another piece in the jigsaw.
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Hi I have a relative who apparently died in the Miner's Welfare Institute in Baker St. Does anyone know where that was?
Hi kirstymac,
I'll look through my files, but it's a new one on me, Miner's Welfare in Baker Street, you got a name for the relative?
Stirling 76
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That clears something up Stirling 76.He (James Stein) isn't on there but I can see where he was working.At number 35 are his brothers-in-law the Pate's.They and his wife were the children of John Pate also a shoemaker in Linlithgow.All of them originally came from Linlithgow.James' son John was also a shoemaker in Glasgow.
Ah! got him, he is listed in the 1881 directory at 32 Baker Street and the Pate's shop was at 35 Baker Street, almost directly across the road. My gut feeling tells me that number 32 was a lodging house, certainly a large tenement and part of what today is Dalgleish Court, however there were a lot of businesses listed at No.32, it may be that he had a workshop there, but if his Brother-in-laws has a shop called Pate Brothers, he most likely lived at 32 and worked at 35.
regards,
Stirling 76
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http://www.todaytourism.com/hotel-view.barcelo-stirling-highland-hotel.117858.en.html
a few more photos
sylvia
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I think you are probably right Stirling 76 in that they lived at 32 and worked over the road.James and his wife still had the three youngest living with them,John 21,Elizabeth(my great gran)15 and James 10.John is already a shoemaker so possibly also working for his uncles.That is a great detailed description of the buldings a few posts back.
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Hi Stirling 76. My relative was Patrick D'Arcy and he died in 1934. However when I look again it lists place of death as Miners Institute Welfare Burghmuir Stirling - would that be Baker St? I may have got mixed up as he lived at 44 Baker St.
Another relative was Hugh Thomson who live at 14 Baker St and died in 1948. I can remember visiting him.
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Hi Stirling 76. My relative was Patrick D'Arcy and he died in 1934. However when I look again it lists place of death as Miners Institute Welfare Burghmuir Stirling - would that be Baker St? I may have got mixed up as he lived at 44 Baker St.
Another relative was Hugh Thomson who live at 14 Baker St and died in 1948. I can remember visiting him.
Hi Kirstymac,
thanks for that, the miners Institute at Burghmuir I can remember it well, in fact when I worked in the pits I was a member. Different area from Baker Street, it was at the bottom of the Craigs and was knocked down just a few years ago, built in 1929. When I was at Riverside school, I used to sneak off and practise snooker.
See my earlier post about 44 Baker Street and its whereabouts and 14 Baker Street is still there, you would have went up a close to get to Hugh Thomson's tenement, just down from the old Derby bar.
regards,
Stirling 76
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Hi Stirling 76
Thanks for the reply. You have some great material there.
Kirstymac
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There's bound to be plenty of photographs of the Miners Welfare but here is one that I took just two days before it was demolished.
In this photo it's only the front section that is still standing.
I should have another two or three somewhere but with my amazing filing system, I can never seem to find things without an extensive search..
(http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee209/38fergie/Roots%20Chat/MinersWelfare.jpg)
I remember going to the Little Theatre there on Sunday evenings for the weekly variety shows.
We used it about thirty years ago for for winter indoor archery sessions.
Cheers.
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Thanks for that Fergie 38. I should have remembered it as two of my cousins were married there. Getting mixed up with Baker St threw me.
Kirstymac
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Hi all
I have just come across this forum. I am trying to trace back my father's family and so far I have found my great grandfather lived in Baker Street and Broad Street. His marriage record in 1884 gives his address as Broad Street. The 1891 Census shows him living at 5 Baker Street with his wife and children. The 1901 and 1911 census have him living at 52 Broad Street. He was a tailor and as there were a number of other tailors shown at Broad Street, I was wondering if perhaps his employer actually owned the building and his employees rented the accomodation.
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Hi all
I have just come across this forum. I am trying to trace back my father's family and so far I have found my great grandfather lived in Baker Street and Broad Street. His marriage record in 1884 gives his address as Broad Street. The 1891 Census shows him living at 5 Baker Street with his wife and children. The 1901 and 1911 census have him living at 52 Broad Street. He was a tailor and as there were a number of other tailors shown at Broad Street, I was wondering if perhaps his employer actually owned the building and his employees rented the accomodation.
Hi Conan325,
in the 1903 and 1909 Stirling Directories, there is a Bartholomew Kidd, Tailor living at 52 Broad Street, I assume this is your relative.
No 52 was a tenement block and most likely owned by a large landowner like the Cowane Trust, something along those lines.
There are no tailor businesses registered in Broad Street at this time, so he would have worked for someone else, maybe even from home, as there was no business registered under the name Kidd.
In the 1882 directory, there is no Kidd registered as a tailor in Stirling.
Sorry thats all I have.
Stewart
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Hi
Thanks Stewart
yes Bartholomew Kidd was my great grandfather. I know he was born in America in 1864/65. I have been unable to find any trace until his marriage record in1884. He was shown as a Tailor (Journeyman) which I understand is an apprentice. I therefore assume he worked for someone else.
I also know his mother remarried someone with the surname Meikle, although I have been unable to find out if that wasin america, or back in Scotland
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The 1932 Stirling Street Directory shows a William Kidd living at 52 Broad Street.
There is also an Albert Victor Kidd living at number 48 Broad Street
Cheers
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He was shown as a Tailor (Journeyman) which I understand is an apprentice.
No, that's not right. A journeyman is quite specifically not an apprentice any longer. He is a man who has completed his apprenticeship and is a qualified tradesman, working for pay for someone else. It doesn't necessarily mean that he was travelling about to earn a living; it is from the French 'journée' meaning 'the duration of a day' because originally he would have been paid by the day.
Once he has worked as a journeyman for a time, and gained experience, he may then set up on his own as a master, employing journeymen and/or training his own apprentices.
(Digression - the word 'journey' in the sense of travel is from the same French word, and originally meant the distance you could travel in a day. It has since changed its meaning to mean any duration of travel.)
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Again in the 1932 Stirling index I have noted a Bartholomew Kidd, railwayman, at 54 Lower Bridge Street and a James Kidd, Grocer at 10 Bayne Street.
Cheers.
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Thanks Fergie38
James Kidd was my grandfather and that address is where my father was born.
I believe the Bartholomew you mention was the youngest of my father's uncles
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I think the houses in Broad St may have been renumbered at some time, possibly when the top of the town was being redeveloped. My great grandparents and subsequently Grandparents lived at 40 Broad St for many years, certainly from 1900's through to 1940's, but when my grandad died in 1955 his address was given as 23 Broad St. Tried to find no 40 a few years ago and seem to remember numbers don't go that high, but remember my dad pointing building out to me when I was a boy and think these might have numbers in 20's now.
By the way, useful Stirling directories from turn of 20th century are available from internet archive, eg for 1903 http://archive.org/details/cookwyliesstirli1903prin
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Do you know if the Gillespie in that List was William as if so would be very interested in the date of the document as trying to find a William Gillespie who was a relative of a relative of mine Robert Gillespie.
P.S. my mum grew up on Broad Street so may know a bit more.
T.
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Hi,
My mother's granny lived in broad street and I can remember her talking about a parrot in a pet shop below. Does anyone know the name or the owners of the pet shop?
Linda
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Only pet shop I remember in Stirling (1950's , 60's) was Archie's in Baker St.
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Hello,
My ancestors were from Stirling. Baker Street and Broad Street.
My Gt Gt Grandfather, David Galashan was a master upholsterer. Businesses various numbers in Baker Street. His wife was Helen.
Residence was 44 Broad Street where the family resided for many decades.
They had 15 children. Baptisms in St Ninian’s. Their grandchildren and a married daughters Mother- in-law lived there too.
Of the 15 children, one ended up in Belfast, one in Dublin, some in England but most spent their whole lives in Stirling.
Many many Galashan births and deaths at 44 Broad Street in the 1800s into 1900s.
I knew that number 44 was demolished and was some kind of rest garden. My Mum visited in the 80’s and found this.
I have found this old thread most interesting.
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Hi 'Family Trees'
My Gt Grandfather lived at No 40 Broad Street and was a journeyman upholsterer - so he may even have worked for your gt gt grandfather. If you look back at the previous posts on this topic you will see a plan of broad street and some mention of a court at no 44. These buildings were not entirely demolished but there was a lot of renovation done in the 1950's I think. The entrance to the court, by my reckoning, was via an archway (with 2 figures in front of it in the plan). That archway is still there and now has no 22 on it, and leads to Kelly court, a sheltered housing complex. The building to the right (which had doorways to Nos 42 - a pub- and 40 - a close) now only has 3 windows (no doorway) on to broad street. BTW the 1911 census has only David Galashan (age 56), a brother Chas(?) and a sister Jane living in what must have been main residence at 44 (there were other houses / flats with same number). This is shown as having 10 rooms with one or more windows, so appears to have been pretty spacious compared to other properties round about.
Sandy
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Hello Sandy,
Thanks for your post.
I’ve read the whole thread - fascinating stuff!
I’m sure my Gt Gt Grandad at least knew your Gt Grandad.
David Galashan senior was a cabinet maker and an upholsterer then a master upholsterer when he employed 2 men and 3 women.
He died in 1902.
His wife Helen died in 1909.
The family lived at number 44 Broad Street for a long time, many births and deaths there.
The 1911 cenus shows his grown up children, his son David was also an upholsterer. Charles and Jane.
As around 20 people lived there at one time they needed all those rooms!
Another son, Johnston Galashan was a master hairdresser with premises in The Arcade.
Daughter Jane ran a boot shop.
Two more sons were a jeweller and a hairdresser.
The sons who went to Belfast and Dublin were chemists.
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I have been reading this thread with interest. My grandmother Louise Traynor was born in Stirling in 1901 and lived at 48 Broad Street, Stirling, at the time of her emigration to the United States in 1904. Her father was Arthur Traynor and her mother was Mary Ellen McTernan. I am planning to visit Stirling in the autumn of 2019 and had hoped to see the residence but it seems that is not meant to be! Nonetheless, I look forward to seeing at least some of what her young eyes would have seen at the time.
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Have also been reading this thread with interest, particularly as a couple of the people posting had relatives at 14 Baker Street. One of my ancestors John McKenna - a coal miner - and his wife Mary and children lived at 14 Baker Street for a bit in the early 1900s. I was keen to look this up as Mary died in 1906 from internal injuries from a fall. 14 Baker St was her address on the entry in the death register. Since I know Stirling well, and know Baker Street a wee bit, I couldn't work out how she could have fallen - out of a window? down the stairs? I looked up Google maps street view but no 14 just looks like a wee hoose.
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No 14 Baker St was presumably a tenement at that time. 1906 Cook & Wylie directory shows 12 tenants (many of whom would have families) at that address. John McKenna, miner, is listed at 2 St Mary's Wynd in that directory. Families seem to have moved around the locality quite a lot at that period. My gt grandfather lived in Baker St (twice), Cowane St, St Mary's Wynd, Bow St and Lower Craigs at various times during his life.
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Many thanks, SandyMcJ. I was interested that the families I'm looking at moved around so much. I had assumed they moved around the miner's accommodation but I know nothing about it. Mary death was in December '06, so perhaps they moved to Baker Street late in the year and after the directory was printed. Who knows. Anyway, it gives me another address to attach to their history :D
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AuntieMomo, the lower half of Baker has hardly changed since about 1900, and 14 Baker street is the auld Derby Bar Close. Your presuming that your relative may have fell from a window overlooking Baker Street, but the tenements were through the close. In all likelihood that is where she lived and it is possible she fell from there. At that side of Baker street was where most of the tenements flats were, if you get a chance, go through 24 Baker Street close and you will see what I mean, also the Star Bar Close was the same with tenements. Better still, the last time I was back in Stirling, I took the chance to go up these closes, also I went up to the car park at Dalgliesh court and looked at the backs of the buildings and you get an idea of what it was like in 1900.
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Thanks Stirling76, I will do. I don't know anything about the tenement accommodation in Stirling. Since a lot of the buildings I've been trying to find in my research have been knocked down, it would be good to actually go somewhere that still exists. I assumed that my relative fell at home because she would probably have been looking after children but who knows really. I can't find a report of it in the newspapers so that's just my assumption as it wasn't on the entry of her death.
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I know this is an old thread, but have a little more information that I recently learned.
The father-in-law of my cousin, John Drummond, was the Barman of Derby Arms at 14 Baker St. from about 1910 - 1944. It is listed as their residence in a 1912 marriage registration and a 1943 newspaper clipping. His father James Drummond is listed in 1891 census at 16 Baker St; occ: Spirit Merchant.
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Hello, just red through these threads with interest, as I have a connection with Baker Street - my Paternal Grandmother, Euphemia Glen was born July 1897 at no 48 Baker Street, to John Glen a journeyman tailor (thanks Forfarian for the description of a journeyman, I did wonder what it meant- but am lost to know how long he stayed there, as cannot find him or family on 1901 census., and he moved to Camelon, Falkirk where his last child Isabella was born 1904
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Geordimac, you are going to have to look at the original entry for 1901 on Scotlands People I think ::) Transcript is confusing:
John Sharp 76
Margaret Sharp 76
John Sharp 38 son
Janel Sharp daug
John Drummond 18 grandson
Annie Drummond 12 daughter
John Drummond 10 son
Euphemea Drummond 3 daughter
Henry Glen 4 Months Son b. Stirling...went off to the US in 1930.
Margaret Stewart 3 months granddaughter
Address: 48 Baker Street, Stirling
Annie Jnr, John Jnr, Euphemia and Henry were children of John Glen and Annie Stewart weren't they?
Is there a connection between the name Drummond (mentioned by ScottClark) and the Glens I wonder?
Monica
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Hello Monica, thanks for this, I have tried several times to find my paternal Grandmother Euphemia Meldrum Glen and her family on 1901 census without success.
I entered Henry Glen today, result for 48 Baker St only gave me Henry and then Margaret Stewart, a grand daughter - who's?. But I have the Birth cert copies for Euphemia and Henry giving birth place as 48 Baker Street, Stirling. What the Drummond connection is I do not know as I can't get a full read of who as living at 48 Baker street 1901, totally puzzled just to find Henry and Margaret.
I have family moving to Camelon, nr Falkirk after 1901, as last child of 7, Isabella, was born there 1904 and Gt Grandfather John died 1911 in Camelon. Also found, which you state, Henry sailing to USA 1930, occupation stating as a moulder.
Have to keep digging, this is now bugging me
Bill
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48 Baker Street in 1901 looks to have numerous households. I counted at least six head of households with various members in their household in the transcript for that year.
You might want to view the original image on this one to try to sort out what it actually shows for the address.
Monica
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Monica,
It's just confusing that census, Henry's parents nor siblings are there, what relation etc to the names Sharp/Drummond is I have yet to find - certainly he is with his family on the 1911 census living in Falkirk area, and next details are sailing out to the USA and his arrival at Ellis Island. Interesting to note his final destination is Akron Ohio, ad the person in the US is Margaret Anderson, and in the Old country is his sister Isabella Glen, now Mrs Risk, as both parents are dead.
Used a lot of credits to look at the 1901 census to find the Glen family, hit dead ends so am surmising was the Journeyman tailor off somewhere with wife and some children, not registering census, but why leave a baby son with A N Other family. so puzzling
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Monica,
Am sure I've sent a reply to you regarding details of Henry Glen, but seems to have vanished.
Again, many thanks for your brilliant help in leading me in right direction of Henry, and subsequent life, back in Scotland.
All I have to do is really go through lots of records on SP and try and establish where John Glen and family were on the night of the 1901 census, certainly not in Baker Street.
Best wishes
Bill
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Bill, am I right in saying that John Glen and his wife Annie Stewart had the following children:
Jane b. 1883
David b. 1885
Robert b. 1887
Annie b. 1888
John b. 1891
Euphemia b. 1897
Henry b. 1900
Isabella b. 1904
I just find it odd that the 1901 listing we have at 48 Baker Street includes the following children (leaving out the surname of Drummond):
Annie 12
John 10
Euphemea 3
Henry 4 Months
Perfect match for the children of John Glen and Annie Stewart :-\
Have you viewed the original? Some of the answers (errors?) may show on the original image.
Monica
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If it's any help, the FindMyPast transcription of the 1901 census gives Henry's surname as Glen.
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I just find it odd that the 1901 listing we have at 48 Baker Street includes the following children (leaving out the surname of Drummond):
I know I said let's leave out the surname Drummond for a look at first names, however, Euphemia's birth registration in 1897 was with a middle name...of Drummond ::)
EUPHEMIA MELDRUM GLEN
1897
490/ 277
Stirling
Euphemia Meldrum was John Glen's paternal grandmother?
Monica
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Hi Monica, Euphemia Meldrum Glen is my Paternal Grandmother, who died in 1925 after giving birth to twins, my father and his sister Euphemia/Effie to us. Correct in the names of the children - Jane took Aunt Effie to raise and Annie took my Father to raise. Euphemia Meldrum is then my 3rd Great Grandmother. - My Grandmother Euphemia's birth certificate only give her middle name as Meldrum, no Drummond mentioned, but then........
You did kindly gave me directions to the 1901 census and noticed the names with the Drummond surname so assumed they are not my relatives but now you mention leaving out the surname, names/dates do match - Oh dear, was something underhand going on with John Glen?? Lol - Looked at my tree again closely but Drummond does not appear anywhere, and wasn't there a Margaret Stewart, listed as Granddaughter shown?. There's a mystery that's not showing up very well, back to the census original again - where's Miss Marple when you need her, Lol Bill
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...birth certificate only give her middle name as Meldrum, no Drummond mentioned, but then........
Bill, sorry...that was a brain drain ;D
Monica
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Making some headway on the 1901 entry.
Margaret Stewart, 3 months, granddaughter b. Stirling in 1901
She was the illegitimate daughter of John and Annie's eldest, Janie/Jane/Jean
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The 1901 transcript (sigh, no surprise really) is incorrect on a number of levels. I will clip a part of the image first below:
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The entry above for 44 Baker Street is two separate households. Can you see the line running under John Drummond, 18 yr old grandson. This indicates the end of that household.
I think the section below has become scrunched up missing off a couple of line. I think parents and Jane and or son Robert should be listed there. I think I can see the bottom writing for Robert under John Drummond.
If you look at Annie, John and Euphemia, they have 'Do' (ditto/the same as above)) written for their surname. Because there are lines missing (with Glen), the transcript is picking up Drummond from the John Drummond in the household above.
If you count the number of females and males on the page, there are some missing (the totals for the columns show at the bottom of the page).
Henry Glen and baby Margaret and over the page. Margaret quite rightly shows as granddaughter...to John Glen and Annie Stewart!
A bit of a mess but I do think the whole family are living there ;)
Monica
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This illustrates perfectly that whilst transcripts are so very useful, the original images are always best! Particularly when the entry has problems with the info.
Monica
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Blimey!!
Illegitimate daughter to Jane!! who would have believed it
Now you have got such a clear picture, I'd read it as is!!! which explains such a lot, and of course there is never a good clear copy to look at, I am truly indebted to you. Solves a big puzzle for me, confess am not one for delving so deeply into what I see, and tend to think that SP will have the correct information against ay other. Is it possible for me to get SP to give a much more accurate copy, I have queried with them a few times on transcripts which were pretty awful but always told it is what it is so sorry, and have never bothered since
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Not sure that SP will arrange to rescan this page, but worth asking them I would say. They are normally pretty good at responding to problems with legibility (expect during Covid when they couldn't arrange for anything to be rescanned).
Sometimes though, writing is so poor or faded that sharper images don't always help!
Monica
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One more thing I can see as additional confirmation that there lines missing is that if you look at the top of the 2nd page with babies Henry and Margaret, they show as living at 48 Baker Street. On the previous page, the Sharp family with grandson John Drummond are at 44 Baker Street.
Unless the babies are living alone ::), we are missing the start of the listing of 48 Baker Street which we now believe will be John and Annie Glen. 48 Baker Street, going by page 2, was multi occupancy with a number of different households. The Glens are the first listed there from what we now have.
Monica
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Which is what I saw, and that's when I got puzzled, but you have given me a clearer picture - pardon any pun -
So back to SP and give them this info and ask if they can look and give me a better copy.
Once again I am indebted to your good work and help
Bill
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ps, went back to SP and tried again to get correct details, got nothing this time!!! so have emailed lengthy details to SP and hope I get a reasonable response - with 3-5 days automated response
Wait and see it will be, anyway laptop gong in for an upgrade so will be few days anyway till I get to look at answer
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Monica,
Bit of a to do with SP for few day, finally...an apology yes there was a big mistake with my family in the 1904 census, and got the correct copy this morning showing them at 48 Baker St.
So all in order for me, they'll be putting up a correct version in due course.
Hope you are all surfing the heat, taking care etc, presently down un Hampshire short holiday, boy it's HOT 35 + today
Again thanks for all you good work
Bill
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That is great! Glad you were able to resolve the issue with SP.
Tomorrow's forecast for the south is up to potentially 43c... 8)
Monica
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My Grandfather James Robertson Mitchell lived at 44 Baker Street in 1918, his parents were John and Jane Mitchell. Does anyone know if there was a butcher shop on that street?
Regards
Jane
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Hi I was just reading your post
The name drummond appears in my family tree. Henry Drummond 1834-1898 was married to Marion Cassells who was the sister of Mary Cassells my Great Great Grandmother. The all lived in stirling around Upper Lowers craigs, baker street and cowane st etc. Do you know of this link?