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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Sussex => Topic started by: odbsmith on Sunday 21 November 10 20:40 GMT (UK)
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I've recently found my 3x great grandfather Thomas John Grinyer b1811 in Brighton. I cannot find him or his family in the 1841/1851 census. His wife was Hannah Maria Bryer. Does anyone have him there tree and have solved the problem, Perhaps a variation of surname spelling?
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Haven't found them on those censuses yet but there is a tree on a well known site that says they had one son George Frederick Grinyer born 1839. the tree does not give any census entries. Would the 1861 census entry which is easy to find, your family where they then have one son - not George and 4 daughters living with them?
was trying to use the children to track down the parents but needed to check if it was the correct family first.
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There is also another tree which seems to have the whole family as listed on the 1861 with births deaths and marriages. Alas they have no census entries that lead to 1851 or 1841. >:(
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Hi,thanks for that.
yes I have the 1861 census, 1 son 4 daughters, the son is my 2x great grandfather. I have tried looking for the children in the 1841 &1851 census without sucsess so far, but there are different spellings of Grinyer.
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There are indeed many different spellings and many corrections in the index I am using!! Makes my surname searches seem very easy! Do you have the info that is on the tree or do you have all you need apart from the census entries? Th tree shows 11 children some of which are more males.
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Try searching for Thos Gringer or William Gringer in the 1841 census. Class HO 107 Piece 1122 book 9 and see what you think of that one.It has many similarites especially with the tree entries for the other children.
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And try searching for Henry Gring born 1841 or Thomas John Gring on the 1851 census and see if thats them too. Class HO107,Piece 1646, Folio 440,Page 26.
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I am interested in your route back in time to Thomas John Grinyer 1811 (possibly of Ovingdean near Brighton) for it is highly probable that a relative of mine married his son Thomas John Grinyer junior (an upholsterer) bapt Brighton 14 Dec 1834.
My relative was Emma Clifton, baptised in St Nicholas Brighton 6 Sept 1829, who was living 42 Montpelier Street Bton 1851 and married Thomas John Grinyer Junior at St Pancras London on 26 April 1857. In the 1881 census, their surname was mistranscribed in the indexes as GRAINGER.
I am presuming your Thomas John Grinyer (1811-18 Oct 1891) was an accountant that also reported for the Brighton Examiner newspaper.
If so, the following should prove useful.
Place of baptism: St Wulframs Church, Ovingdean, Brighton, Sussex.
Place of death 1891: 8 Richmond Place, Brighton, Sussex.(vol 2b page146)
AKA GRENIER / GRINYER
1841 Living at Borough St. Brighton.
The family information sent me by another member of the Grinyer family is however far more extensive than recently quoted by others. That says his children were: Sarah 1831, William 1833, Thomas 1834, Hannah 1836, George 1839, Henry 1841, Charles 1843, Harriet 1847, Benjamin 1849, Martha 1850 and Emma 1856.
I am however, unsure of the total correctness of the above list of children, for you have to accecpt that there were occasions when Hannah of Worthing (who died in 1890) was also known as Anna Maria.
Roy G
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odbsmith,
Is your Thomas John a "sub newspaper editor" in 1861.
If yes, have you considered HO107 1122 9/36 13 in 1841.
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Well Done.
1841 Thos Gringer and family at Boro(?) street parish of Brightelstone, Thomas listed as Schoolmaster
1851 Thomas John Gring and Temple & family at 7 Temple Street, Thomas listed as Schoolmaster and Hannah as School mistress, which ties up with info I've gleaned from another topic.
Roy G, My maternal grandmother's grandfather was William Symes Grinyer, son of Thomas and Hannah.
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Anyone interested abt the family prior to Thomas, I've Just found this
http://www.maddock.id.au/familyhistory/darcyfamily/grenier.pdf
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Obdsmith
What I have on William Symes Grinyer is Occupation: Tailor
Year of birth: c1833 Date of baptism: 19 MAR 1833 Year of death: c1914
Born a deaf mute (vol 7a)1871 Census; Living at 28 Claremont Street, Brighton.
Spouse name: Caroline POPE who brought her son John (b c1860) into the marriage
Place of marriage: St Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex 2 OCT 1866
If you want to send me a personal message I can fill you in on the origins of Emma Clifton who married Thomas junior and also what happened to some of his other siblings that are not listed on the website address you directed us to.
Roy G
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Hi, thanks for your help Roy.
I've been looking at info from that link I previously posted and also at other peoples trees on Ancestry that include Thomas John and I need some guidance, I always thought a name was only "re used" if a infant/child died. But there seems to be two thomas's listed as Thomas and Martha sons. Thomas Grenier b. 4-7-1808 Ovingdean and Thomas John Grinyer b. 23-5-1811 Ovingdean. Any suggestions?
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Re Two Thomas Grinyers beilieved to be from the same parents.
As you say, the most usual reason for the following to occur is that the child died in infancy and was replaced.
I have Thomas GRENIER son of Thomas (& Martha) b 1808 of Ovingdean, Brighton, Sussex.
Place of baptism: St Wulframs Church, Ovingdean, Brighton, Sussex.
Place of death: Coopers Plains, Brisbane
Spouse name: Mary PANNELL
Place of marriage: St. Nicholas Church, Brighton, Sussex. (IGI)
Date of marriage: 25 NOV 1832
And the other Thomas, also son of Thomas (& Martha) b 1811 of Ovingdean.
baptised St Wulframs Church, Ovingdean, Brighton, Sussex.
Place of death: 8 Richmond Place, Brighton, Sussex.(vol 2b page146)
Notes: 1841 Living at Borough St. Brighton.
Spouse name: Hannah BRYER
Place of marriage: Saint Nicholas, Brighton, Sussex (IGI)
Date of marriage: 28 JAN 1830
As both these Thomas' survived into adulthood, we firstly need to eliminate the possibility that there were two sets of Thomas & Martha Grinyer/Greniers residing in Ovingdean. Nothing on the IGI to that effect, anyone got a Sussex marriage index?
Lastly, I note both baptisms on the IGI are not not substantiated by a batch number that refers to the actual parish registers or Bishops Transcripts. You would therefore need to check out the actual parish registers or an authenticated transcript of them. What if one Thomas was illegitimate? If possible, that too needs to be checked out perhaps by searching for another adult Thomas in Ovingdean or something related to the support of base born children in the parish.
Roy G
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Hi
From the Sussex Marriage Index there is only one Thomas Grinyer marrying a Martha
They married 27 July 1803 at Oveningdean,Martha`s maiden name Hamper.
There is no Thomas Grenier marrying a Martha on the SMI
The surname when looking on the SMI has several varients.
Hope this helps
Kind Regards
Omega :)
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Hi
Here are 2 children for Thomas & Hannah
Sarah Eliza,baptised 10 Nov 1833
Dad a Grocer,living King St,Brighton
Hannah Maria,11 Sept 1836
Dad an Accountant,living Union Street.
Off to look more Kids
Omega
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Hi
Hope the following will help.
Children of Thomas John & Hannah/Anna Maria
William Symes,17 Mar 1833,Dad Grocer,living King St
Henry James,21 Feb 1841,Dad an Accountant,living Borough St
Charles Robert,6 Aug 1843,Dad & add as above
Harriet Christina,31 Jan 1847,living Temple St
Benjamin Franklin,26 Aug 1849,Dad an accountant,add as above
Martha,23 feb 1851 " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " " "
Emma Avis,9 Mar 1856,Dad Bookseller,living Richmond St
Omega :)
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Thanks Roy G and Omega 1,
Well it does look like they are brothers but I still feel "uncertain"
Anyone have the keys to the Tardis??
Regards Debbie :D
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Gosh, if there were a tardis for all of us to sort out our individual family history conundrums, it would be crammed to capacity and still have several mile long queues waiting outside.
Roy G
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Indeed!! lol ;D
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If i could find a Tardis,i`d be hammering on the door & stamping my feet ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Omega
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odbsmith....Hiya fourth cousin, (The Tardis has arrived) we share Thomas John as 3rd gr grandfather
contact me at * (I have a photo of him when Editor of the Brighton Examiner)
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Just read through the previous posts, so to clear the mist of time.
There were two Thomas's born to Thomas and Martha nee Hamper,
Thomas b1808 married Mary Ann Pannel, emigrated to New Zealand, then Brisbane, Australia, and settled there.( I am in touch with one of the family). All told they had 12 children.
Thomas John b1811, married Hannah Maria Bryer and had 11 children. They resided in Brighton all their married life and were grocers, school teachers, Thomas John ended his working life as editor of the Brighton Examiner.
The Thomas's had three younger siblings, John, Ann & Sarah but the all died young.
Roy G, If you would like info re your line, I may be able to help.
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Thanks for the offer Ian, but my prime focus is on the Cliftons not the Grinyers.
Although my Emma Clifton (Btn 1828) married your Thomas John Grinyer (Btn 1831) I'm stumped over the parish of birth of her father Francis. Damn fool went and died in 1838 (well before the 1851 census) so I dont know his parish of birth. I believe him to have been a brother of Isaac of Wadhurst, but have found nothing to back that assumption up. Roy G
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Thomas John Grinyer (Btn 1811) was my 3rd Great Grandfather. I have unraveled some of the family history but would be grateful for any further that I might be missing.
I still live and work in the general area of where the family lived. If anyone would like photos of addresses and other places of interest, feel free to drop me a line.
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Interesting.
My third great grandfather is also Thomas John Grinyer. My second great grandfather is William Symes Grinyer.
I've traced the route back to Phillipe Grenier probably from France during Huguenot rebellions.