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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => London and Middlesex => Topic started by: l.garey on Monday 22 November 10 17:05 GMT (UK)
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I only started posting on Rootschat a couple of weeks ago, so I went to the Beginners' forum, and I had amazing responses from some very alert people there (Gareys in London around 1800). But I would like to go further. If my correspondents see this, I hope they don't mind my posting here too. I did mention the possibility to them, and it seems the logical place!
I have for some years been trying to trace back my Garey family in the East End of London, using family legend, Internet and, when possible, Kew and Guildhall. I got stuck at:
Edward Garey m Mary Warner 1807.
After that it goes:
Henry William b 1816 m Elizabeth Jones in 1835
Richard Thomas (1845-1914) m Augusta Unger (1848-1902) in 1869
Marcus George 1882-1957 m Sarah Ann Green (1883-1968) in 1912
Cyril Marcus (1916-2007) m my mother
Richard Thomas was a walking stick carver. He went off from London to the Stroud area. I note there was a new walking stick factory there, and that was his job.
My problem was to get back further, and my correspondents on the beginners' section guided me through finding 2 more generations back, taking me to Hampshire, and particularly Stockbridge, and a family of carpenters who must have moved to Shoreditch.
However, there were a lot of Gareys around the Shoreditch area around 1800, so I wonder if anyone has a link between these possibly related families.
Thanks.
Laurence
Edited to remove details of living persons. Thanks for the advice!
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Here is a link to the other thread .....
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,496401.0.html
Polarbear
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Hi Laurence,
I believe you would be better working back your own family line and if you want to move sideways, work forwards carefully from known siblings in your own tree. There were Gareys in London as early as the 1500s (eg Mary De Garey buried at St Botolph, Bishopsgate in 1592 and the marriage of a Stephen Garey at St Botolph, Aldgate in 1582), Garey immigrants from France and Belgium and, if the information on one tree on Ancestry is to be believed, a possible change of family name to Garey. Although the name Garey is not particularly common it is also not sufficiently rare (particularly when allowing for phonetic equivalents such as Gary, Geary...) for unrelated family groups to be living in close proximity and even in the same parish in London.
Nigel
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I have been trying to put your advice into effect and have a question about one (or two?) mid-nineteenth century London Gareys. I refer to Edward Bryant Garey. I hope I am not offending forum etiquette by referring to the following.
He was a solicitor, tried and found guilty at the Old Bailey in 1846 and transported for 15 years. Age 51, so born about 1795. There is a headstone in Hobart, Tasmania, of Edward Bryant Garey, who died 1852, age 65. Therefore born about 1787.
In Abney Park Cemetery in London, there is a burial of Edward Bryant Garey dated 11/4/1859.
I have a wife for Edward Bryant, Elizabeth Dean, married in London 1819, and also in St Catherine's Marriage Index another marriage of EBG in 1849, Shoreditch.
I found the marriage of his daughter Sarah Elizabeth in Marylebone in 1844, in which her father is mentioned as a solicitor.
So are we dealing with two Edward Bryant Gareys, one died and buried in London, and another, the solicitor buried in Hobart, or is it possible that it is the same, who married twice, who died in prison, was buried in Hobart, then repatriated some years later and buried in London in the family cemetery?
I have not found the parents of Edward Bryant.
Thanks for any advice.
Laurence
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Can currently find the following: -
1. Edward Briant Geary - born 13 Mar 1796, bap. 20 Mar 1796 at St Giles, Cripplegate, London. Parents - Geo. (hairdresser) and Susanna.
The baptism of Sarah Elizabeth Garey at St Sepulchre, Holborn on 14 Apr 1822 names her parents as Edward Bryant (attorney) and Elizabeth Garey.
2. Marriage at St Mary, Haggerston on 11 Jan 1849: -
Edward Bryant Garey, full age, bachelor, bonnet shape maker, father - Joseph Garey, Angola hat maker &
Harriet Robinson, full age, spinster, father - John Henry Robinson, surgical instrument maker
Baptism at St Leonard, Shoreditch:
30 Jul 1827 (born 14 Jul 1827) - Edward Garey, son of Joseph (bonnet maker) and Ann
The Edward Bryant Garey buried at Abney Park on 11 Apr 1859 is probably the husband of Harriet. There is a burial for a Harriet Garey at Abney Park on 22 Nov 1858 (age 32).
Nigel
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Edward Bryant Garey's convict conduct record confirms that he died in Hobart Town in 1852 http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON33-1-88,207,79,L,80
It also mentions that he had 6 children. As far as I can establish these were:
Maria Louisa 1820
Sarah Elizabeth 1822 (m Edmund Elsden Goldsmid 1844)
Loetitia or Letitia 1824 (m Richard Ward 1845)
George Washington 1827 (died a bachelor near The Hague in 1867 - administratrix his mother Elizabeth of The Hague)
Eliza 1829
Mary Ann 1831
The one that married in Shoreditch in 1849 must be someone else. EBG the solicitor was in Tasmania at that time.
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Ah... there was another son!
EBG's widow Elizabeth died in Holland in 1870. Adminstration granted to her son Napoleon Edward Byron Garey of Nimes in France, gas engineer
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Thanks Nigel and Shaun. When I recorded the Abney Park burials a few year ago I noted that EBG's wife might well be Harriet Robinson, so that seems to be clearer now. I also had a list of our solicitor friend's children, but I can now update that. It certainly seems that we are dealing with two separate EBGs, for which many thanks.
I cannot link this family to my own as yet, but am working on it!
Laurence
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Shaun: in my records I have Napoleon Edward Byron (name dropping a bit? A real solicitor's son!) who married a German lady, Anna Friedericke Nathalie. He was born in Clerkenwell in 1826 and died in Bromley in 1914. They had daughters Natalie Elizabeth (b Hoddesdon 1857, m 1884 in Croydon) and Adele Letitia (b 1859 in Italy and m Croydon 1881). They seem to be globe trotters. Now I can link Napoleon to EBG's family. Thanks
Laurence
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Can anyone help with the following?
In the London census of 1871 I find this family at 1 Plough Lane, Homerton:
Richard Garey age 42, blind maker, wife Eliza age 39
Children, born Shoreditch:
Edward, 21, blind maker
Richard, 19, sawyer
Frederick, 16, errand boy
Eliza, 14, book folder
Alice, 12
Laura, 9
Arthur, 6
My question is whether this is the same family as that of my ancestors, of which I only have the following:
Richard James Garey, bapt 2-1-1825 St Botolph Bishopsgate
married Eliza Webster 18-2-1849 at St Mary Haggerston
The only child I have is:
Edward Lovell Garey, b 3-5-1849 Hackney, bapt 27-5-1849, St Leonard Shoreditch, d 1887 Shoreditch
He was a venetian blind maker, so that agress with the first family's Edward, as does his age. The main discrepancy would seem to be the fathers' ages (about 1829, compared with Richard James, bapt 1825).
Many thanks
Laurence
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In the 1861 census that family is at 3 Marian Square, Bethnal Green. Richard is shown as aged 36, Eliza 32.
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Thanks Shaun. That was quick. Do you think it is likely to be the same as Richard James's?
Laurence
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Oh yes - the occupation clinches it
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Great! I have 6 new cousins!
Have a nice weekend.
Laurence
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I wonder if I can come back to a question I asked a few weeks ago (1 December 2010). I was trying to establish any relationship to me of Edward Bryant Garey, a disgraced solicitor who was deported to Tasmania and died there in 1852. I have his parents as George Garey and Susanna.
Now, I have recently been looking at the Gareys related to the Blackett family, and have found George Garey who married Susanna Annesley in 1791 in Cripplegate whose sone Thomas Garey, born 1803 in Cripplegate, gave rise to a number of descendants whom I have been able to trace (Joseph, John, Susanna and Thomas, born between 1797 and 1803).
The question is, how can I check whether Edward Bryant (born 1796) was also a son of George Garey and Susanna Annesley?
Thanks
Laurence
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Have only just come across this string, which is of interest to me because Letitia Garey, daughter of Edward Bryant (the disgraced solicitor) was my great great grandmother. She married Richard Ward in 1824 (as previously noted) and died in Ramsgate in 1907. The Garey name reappeared in the family a couple of generations later as a second forename.
Sorry - I don't think that really adds anything to what you wanted to know, but the info in the string has filled in some blanks for me. I knew we'd come across a wrong 'un if I went back far enough!
Regards
Ward
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Thanks very much Ward. I shall get back to you tomorrow.
Laurence
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Hello Ward
Back to you as promised. The whole family I have is George Garey m Susanna: son Edward Bryant 1796 -1852 (Hobart). He married Elizabeth Dean (b 1801) in 1819 in St Sepulchre. She died 1870 in Holland. Children were Maria Louisa (B 1820), Sarah Elizabeth (b 1822), Letitia (b 1824), Napoleon (1826-1914), George Washington (1827-1867, died in Holland), Eliza (B 1829), Mary Ann (b 1831). You say Letitia married Richard Ward in 1824: I think that should be she was born in 1824 and married in 1845.
Would you be willing to give me the rest of the information from Letitia onward? Either in the forum or privately? Also anything else you have on the family, or other Gareys around that time. I am still trying to link my branch with the many Gareys in the East End at that time.
Thanks
Laurence
PS: did you manage to find Edward Bryant's rather fashionable house? Now part of Gt Ormond St Hospital as far as I can make out on Google Earth!
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Re Edward Bryant Garey's family, just looking at Maria Louisa Garey, born 1820. I wonder if it is the same Maria Louisa who married François Antoine Ory in Soho in 1840.
Laurence
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Hello Laurence
Yes, you're quite right about the dates, and thanks for the further information on the Gareys. I'll be happy to let you have what I've got on Richard Ward and Letitia's descendants - though I should say that the Ward name died out in the next generation because they had only daughters. The surviving line is the McCullochs, which go up to present day.
If you want to give me an email address I'll pass through what I've got, in whatever format looks most practical.
Regards
Ward
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Thanks.
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Sorry. Will send a PM
Laurence
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I was very grateful to those of you who helped me trace my line to some carpenters in Hampshire. I have since been to Kew and got some more details, but I wonder if you can help me.
You helped me find that my ancestor Edward Garey (born 1777 in Stockbridge, Hants) was the son of Richard Garey/Gary (born 1752 in Stockbridge) and Hannah Elliot (married 1776).
Richard's parents seem to be Edward Gary and Elizabeth.
Now, I wonder if this Edward is the same as Edward Gary who married Elizabeth Parker at Lower Wallop Church, Stockbridge, 26-10-1747. Is he also Edward Garey baptised 21-4-1718 at Longstock, and whose parents were John Gary and Mary. and who had 5 sibs born in Longstock 1719-1732.
Thanks for any help you can give me.
Laurence
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Hi,
I found this thread looking for the Goldsmid family. For your information, in my city The Hague are buried in a Goldsmid family grave:
Henry Goldsmid (born 2 august 1790, died july 24, 1863) (He was married to Sarah Ward Ogle)
George Washington Garey (born 16 july 1828, died may 1(?), 1865)
Edward Richard Garey, nephew of the above (sic), (born 5 april 1867, died june 23 or 29, 1869)
Elisabeth Dean, widow of E. Garey, (born 24 oktober 1798, died 13 august 1875)
Neville Davison Goldsmid, London, 18 april 1814 - Brussels, 4 july 1875 (buried july 6, 1875 in The Hague)
Neville Davison Goldsmid was married to Elisa Garey, daughter of Elisabeth Dean.
He was a son of Henry Goldsmid and brother of Edmund Elsden Goldsmid (1818-1870), who married Sara Elisabeth Garey (who is sometimes mistakenly called Gardner or Garner), so two brothers married two sisters. The Goldsmids were a very wealthy Jewish-English family. an uncle, Isaac Lyon Goldsmid (1824-1859) was the first Jew to be made Baronet, and founder of the Imperial Continental Gas Association and co-founder of the banking firm Mocatta Goldsmid. The Goldsmids also owned railroads. Edmund Elsden (banker) and Neville Davison (gas engineer) moved from London to Paris to build and exploit Gas works on the continent, i know of Paris, Versailles, Brussels and Leeuwarden for sure). Neville davison later moved to the Hague were he exploited the city's Gas works (from 1844 until 1875) and founded the hague's first tramway company. He was also a famous art collector, owning Vermeers and Rembrandts. After his death his wife Elisa moved back to Paris. They had no children. Edmund Elsden Goldsmid (sometimes called just Edmond Goldsmid) and Sara Elisabeth Garey had five children.
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Thank you very much for all that information. I already had quite a bit about this section of the Garey family, and that Sarah Elizabeth had married Edmond Elsden, but the other Goldsmid connections are new to me. I am not sure whether these Gareys are related to my side of the family. An interesting finding was that the father of George Washington, Edward Bryant, husband of Elizabeth Dean, was a London lawyer who was condemned at the Old Bailey to be transported to Tasmania, where he died. I have more information about their other children. Do you know who was the father of Edward Richard, who died very young? I am trying to find details of Edward Bryant's parents, George and Susanna.
If you are interested in the Gareys I can give you more information.
Laurence
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Hi Laurence,
well, for instance:
did the garey sisters die in Paris? What happened to the estate? I know the Hague gasworks was bought by the city and Neville got paid 1.000.000 guilders, (some 50,000 - 100,000 pound sterling at the time). His art collection made 500.000 guilders at auction.
and: what drama happened to Elisabeth Dean, was it normal for a married couple to be split-up because the husband was sent to a penal colony? It would explain why Neville Goldsmid had his mother-in-law and other in-laws come to The Hague.
and: did you try looking for Garner/Gardner instead of Garey?
By the way, there's a typo in my previous posting; Elisabeth Dean died 1870.
My interest is really about Neville Goldsmid, who must have been quite a character. He had the city of The Hague sign a deal that can be best described as extortion, offering bad-quality Gas at twice the price paid in other cities. He made The Hague serve out this contract for the full 30 years, refusing any buy-outs. In the 1870's he was surely the most hated man in the city. Surely Elisa left the Hague very quickly in 1875, no love lost there. The art collection was auctioned in Paris a year later, the catalogue can be found on the internet.
Hey, how few people can claim they had Rembrandts in the family?
Last question: do you know of paintings or photographs of this family?
thanks,
Michiel Kuyt, The Hague
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Thanks Michiel
Let me summarise what I have.
George Garey m Susanna Annesley, London 1791
Son Joseph b 1797 London
His son Edward Bryant Garey b 1823 d 1858, buried in Abney Park, East London
(this seems to be the "other" Garey line. George and Susanna's other son was Edward Bryant Garey, b 13-3-1796 London, d 18-10-1852 and buried Hobart)
He m Elizabeth Dean who was b1801 London (you say 24-10-1798 which is correct?). I have her dying in "Holland" 1870.
Children of EBG and ED, born in London:
Maria Louisa b1820 m François Ory in london 1840
Sarah Elizabeth b1822, m Edmund Elsden Goldsmit 1844 London
Letitia b1824 d 1907 Ramsgate m Richard Ward
Napoleon Edward Byron (the family chose some amazing names!) b1826, d 1914 Bromley, m Anna Nathalie, b Flensburg and d 1914 Bromley
(an international family too! Their 2nd daughter Adele Letitia was b 1859 in Italy)
George Washington d 1867 (you say 1865) "near The Hague" (where was it in fact?)
Eliza b 1829
Mary Ann b1831
Let's leave it at that for the moment. What a family. Where did Edward Bryant's money go, and that of Neville? Were there any connections between their businesses? !!!
Laurence
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Michiel
I just found a Sarah Ogle who married Martin Garey in London in 1824. You mentioned that Henry Goldsmit's wife was Sarah Ward Ogle. Any connection?
And Letitia Garey married Richard Ward in 1845 in London!
Laurence
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i have found in the city archives of The Hague:
edward richard garey, his death registered on june 24, 1869, The Hague, no record of him been born in The Hague;
george washington garey, death registered on may 16, 1865, Loosduinen (adjacent to The Hague, present day a part of The Hague)
the dates in my yesterday posting come verbatim from the grave-stone, i take them for most reliable.
Do you have any idea about genealogy sites and online archives from Paris?
regards, Michiel
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Laurence,
another Goldsmid/Ward has turned up:
http://akevoth.org/genealogy/asser/649.htm
"Family Page
"Claude Joseph Goldsmid-Montefiore
"Married 14 Jul 1902 London, West London Synagogue Maryleborne to:
"Florence Fyfe Brereton Ward, birth 1853 Westbury, Wiltshire, England, died 10 Dec 1938
"1) Leonard Montefiore
of course it wasn't unusual for well-to-do families to 'intermarry' frequently.
plus:
check sara elizabeth gardner on same site!
Michiel
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Very interesting Michiel. I wonder why Sarah Elizabeth used the name Gardner. Maybe she changed from her father's name after his trial, but that was 2 years after her marriage. Or it could be that Gardner is very close to Garey in the registers and it was wrongly transcribed.
I still cannot find details of Edward Richard Garey. If he was the nephew of George Washington G, I assume he was the son of Napoleon Garey, but I only have him with 2 daughters. Why is he recorded as a nephew, when his father (?) only died in 1914? Mysterious.
Earlier in this thread (reply 6, 1 December 2010) ShaunJ note that Napoleon was a gas engineer in Nimes!
I have no direct information on Paris sites, as you asked, but I shall look. The LDS might help.
I have no pictures of these people.
I did check on the home of Edward Bryant G, and he lived at Powis Place, London W1, which today runs between the two famous hospitals of Queen Square (neurology) and Great Ormond Steet (children). Nice area. Better than Tasmania, or at least where he lived in Tasmania.
Best wishes
Laurence
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Michiel:
Just saw this on Wikipedia:
Diana and her companions by Vermeer:
Neville Davison Goldsmid of The Hague owned the painting from 1866-1875, before it passed into the hands of his widow, Eliza Garey of The Hague and Paris. She sold it with other works at the Goldsmid sale on May 4, 1876, when Victor de Stuers bought it for the collection of the Koninklijk Kabinet van Schilderijen Mauritshuis, the Hague.[17]
Maybe you can find it and get it back for me!
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Hi Laurence,
check
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:H8L7f0xJFroJ:www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/21242/pages/2280/page.pdf+neville+d.+goldsmid&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEEShGNL6NodOeASo-Ei0k2eHzqEA9p5dTEXfE85YPxdwy6hp_ggXZ9dNzsF_joHSTIPd3FDz8N-DM2J0Au-L6puCpmljDaOROfR0B33eWrTUBb9liupraIFCT83fIeGusgTTR2QnW&sig=AHIEtbQurce2U53NXUdcY9AVevO57khIbw
richard ward, husband of letitia garey, was business partner with neville and edmund goldsmid until 1851
a close-knit family indeed.
Michiel
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Yes indeed. There's money in gas! Interesting that I received an email yesterday from the gt grandson of George Garey and Susannah Annesley. I had been in touch with him some years ago. Much of what I have on that branch came from him.
Best wishes
Laurence
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hi Laurence,
an ad in the newspaper ‘Dagblad voor Zuid-Holland en ‘s-Gravenhage (i.e. daily paper for South-Holland and The Hague), thursday 18 may 1865:
(my translation)
"Missing
at may 6th mister George Washington Garey has left his house in The Hague, and has not been heard of since.
His features are: old 36 years, tall 1 ell 6.5; black hair, as are beard and moustache, brown eyes as are eye-brows, high fore-head.
Garments: shiny black everlasting coat and vest, black and white striped trousers, elastic silk little boots, black tie, black silk hat and brown leather gloves, the linnenwear marked G.G.;
Carried a golden watch without chain, golden buttons on shirt and sleeves. Speaks english and french.
For the discovery of mentioned gentleman, be it alive or dead, a reward of one to two hundred guilders is issued, to be reported to the Belinfante brothers, booksellers, wagenstraat, the Hague."
Two days earlier he had died in the nearby town of Loosduinen, see my earlier posting.
Anyway, now we know what he looked like. And that he liked black and silk.
Michiel
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Fascinating! Many thanks.
Laurence
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Hi Laurence,
please check
https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:FwixlMwfnv8J:www.london-gazette.co.uk/issues/26264/pages/1299/page.pdf+sarah+elizabeth+goldsmid&hl=en&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESgzj87nAUdA4lNKxgE_r4Y2jmMrRG8yRsaMr7hYp_TcJrU06bLz0eRhkzVn06Za4unCOXDlTbPbhJFshdB77sGRHPS7xPFCT55MaQd5JvTMAM1_TmrBsbmW9YHpVKj-_HqQJDrk&sig=AHIEtbQrcmMMPtAZJsGtHmP7ZgCcIoYR1w
sarah elisabeth goldsmid (nee Garey) died 24 december 1891
she had returned to england from Paris!
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Another link in the puzzle. Thanks Michiel. I did not have it on record when or where Sarah Elizabeth died. I assumed she was with her husband, maybe in Paris, but when he died in 1870 I do not know where she went. Presumably back to England, according to what you have just found, perhaps to Southsea, Hampshire. It is interesting that the furthest back I can trace my own branch of the Gareys is to a family of carpenters in Hampshire in the mid-18th century. But I stll cannot find the link (if any) between the Edward Bryant branch and my own. Who were the grandparents of EB Garey whose son George was EB's father?
Laurence