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Wales (Counties as in 1851-1901) => Wales => Denbighshire => Topic started by: Crocus65 on Tuesday 30 November 10 05:30 GMT (UK)
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Would someone be willing to look up a birth register for one Thomas Chaloner, born about 1521, Llansilin, son of Jonas Chaloner and possibly brother of George Chaloner.
Ultimately, we would like to find the father and mother of Jonas Chaloner, but that may be pushing it. Thomas is alleged to have become Headmaster of Shrewsbury School frm 1637-1645. His father, Jonas, later became Rector of Byfield, Northamptonshire, 1597; Rector of Much Wenlock, 1613; Vicar of Condover, 1615.
I would appreciate any help possible to help us tear down this brickwall :)http://
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Hello and welcome :)
You're very lucky to get as far as you have. Some of us have brick walls that are firmly entrenched 1-200 years later.
The parish records for Llansilin only begin in the mid-17 century - say around 1660s - so that you would have to use other sources.
You could try the online records at the National Library
http://www.llgc.org.uk/index.php?id=2
It might be worth contacting the Llansilin Local History Society, listed here:
http://www.local-history.co.uk/Groups/salop.html
Also, note that part of Llansilin was in the parish of Oswestry.
What is the source of your information on a 1521 birth date?
JL
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Hi Crocus and Ju... Ga... JL ;)
I'm sceptical about "1521" too. I think we may be looking at a transcription error here -- Thomas's baptismal year 1621 rather than 1521? Even then, not much to find in PRs, as JL says: first Llansilin registers/BTs start in 1666 per GENUKI.
Was one of the sources used the Joseph Morris collection at Shrewsbury RO? If not seen yet, this page (http://histfam.familysearch.org/getperson.php?personID=I243341&tree=Welsh) in the Community Trees section of the LDS site (and other pp. nearby) would be worth a read.
I have an idea that there is a Chaloner pedigree somewhere in one of the BL Harleian MSS that originally came from the 17th c. Randle Holmes heraldic practice at Chester. As you perhaps know, the first Randle Holmes married the widow of Thomas Chaloner of Chester, and succeeded to his pedigree collections and genealogical research as well as to his wife. Somewhere in the range Harl. 1970 to Harl. 1977, I would guess.
You might try having a browse in Owen's Catalogue of MSS relating to Wales in the BM (http://www.archive.org/details/p1catalogueofman04brituoft), if you have not already been there and done that. There should be a few hits for Chaloner and variants.
Rol
ADDED: I see per the LDS site that "1521" is the DoB attributed to the Thomas Chaloner who was knighted and based in London. They source this to Bartrum's WG2 (vol.8 p.1251) -- so maybe he cites primary evidence ibid? In any event, plainly not the same Thomas as the one you are chasing. Bartrum says Sir TC kt. was still living 1565, but apparently mentions no sightings thereafter.
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Crocus, I've just spotted that you have another thread (http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,499047.msg3557895.html#msg3557895) active about these Chaloners on the Staffs. Lookup Requests board. Posting a link here for ease of ref. and avoidance of duplication.
R
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Thank you for doing that.
I posted to the Staffordshire forum re: Jonas Chaloner, b. about 1566 [NOT 1521, as previously thought], as he was born there. And I posted to the Denbighshire forum re: his son, Thomas Chaloner, b. about 1600, who was born at Llanfilin. Apologies if it was not correct to do so.
This is my first time using this medium and must say how very grateful I am for the generosity of people replying to my requests.
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Hello :)
Can we clarify if it was Llanfyllin or Llansilin, please. They are not far from each other but Llanfyllin is usually classified as Montgomeryshire. In those day it was probably just Hundreds, though.
During the 16-17th century some of my more affluent borderers moved around from border county to border county and they were very difficult to trace. In fact I might start a request for some of them :)
Hello Rol - will leave this to you. It's your kind of story ;) ;) ;)
JL
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My sincerest apologies!
It is Llansilin which is located about 6 miles west of Oswestry.
My Thomas Chaloner, Headmaster of Shrewsbury School from 1637-45, was born about 1600. Parents were Jonas Chaloner and his first wife, Elizabeth (surname unknown).
I've also since discovered Jonas Chaloner was born in Staffordshire about 1566, NOT 1521, as previously stated.
Genealogy would be such a treat to do if it were not for the dates involved :-)
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... Apologies if it was not correct to do so.
No need for any! Quite right to get the sub-parts of the puzzle in front of the relevant audiences. Ideally best to post X-ref. links at the same time, but people often need a bit of time on the site before they find the Help page about doing such semi-techie things.
:)
Hello Rol - will leave this to you. It's your kind of story ;) ;) ;)
:)
Do keep your eye on us though, JL -- you've much more claim to be a Marcher Lady than I have, and it's all pretty near your home patch!
;) ;)
Rol
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I am the first to admit the intricacies of the RootsChat.com forum have not yet filtered through to my pre-cyberspace brain. My younger son always says, when I ask a techie type question, "Have you read the manual, Mom?"
SO, it seems, I'd better get with it and read the HELP section!
Thanks for your patience and understanding :)
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There are a number of Chalenors around Denbigshire here:
http://histfam.familysearch.org/pedigree.php?personID=I66091&tree=Welsh
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Thanks for the link!
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I have an idea that there is a Chaloner pedigree somewhere in one of the BL Harleian MSS that originally came from the 17th c. Randle Holmes heraldic practice at Chester. As you perhaps know, the first Randle Holmes married the widow of Thomas Chaloner of Chester, and succeeded to his pedigree collections and genealogical research as well as to his wife. Somewhere in the range Harl. 1970 to Harl. 1977, I would guess.
An alternative way to get at info about this Chester branch would be find a library that subscribes to the manuscript transcriptions published in the volumes of the Harleian Society (ongoing). Their vol. 49 prints the heralds' visitation pedigrees of Cheshire collected in 1613. Quite a full Chaloner tree appears on pp.59-61 there. Unfortunately no Jonas C. is shown in the index, but this source and/or Bartrum are well worth checking out for background purposes.
I see per the LDS site that "1521" is the DoB attributed to the Thomas Chaloner who was knighted and based in London. They source this to Bartrum's WG2 (vol.8 p.1251) -- so maybe he cites primary evidence ibid? ...
For the sake of completeness (although he is apparently not in your line), I ought perhaps to add that there is a piece in the Dictionary of National Biography about Sir TC kt. This gives his dates as 1521-65 and therefore seems to have been Bartrum's authority for the dates shown in WG2.
Rol
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Thank you for this. We've now found the information we were looking for but, as a newbie to this forum, I don't know how to put on a notification to people that this search is now *completed*. Can you advise?
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Thank you for this. We've now found the information we were looking for but, as a newbie to this forum, I don't know how to put on a notification to people that this search is now *completed*. Can you advise?
Hi Crocus65
Just go to your original post, click on the modify button (upper right), add COMPLETED to the subject and Save
Heather
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Hello Crocus,
... We've now found the information we were looking for ...
Excellent, that is good news.
Looking back at your original enquiry, as amended by your Replies 4 + 6, I am reminded that it fell into two parts:
(a) baptism [plus any other available info?] for Jonas Chaloner, b. Staffordshire, ca. 1566; and
(b) baptism for his son Thomas Chaloner (headmaster of Shrewsbury 1637-45), b. Llansilin, ca. 1600.
Have you found info about both men, or only for Thomas? If only for Thomas, does COMPLETED mean that for now you have decided that it would be best to pause the search for his father -- or, indeed, have you decided to grant him full "brickwall" status?
Either way, bearing in mind that the search-engines could bring people to this web page for years to come, I am sure that it would be a kindness from their standpoint if you could post brief details of the info you have now discovered, plus a ref. to the source you used.
(And even current contributors to the thread may be mildly curious!)
:)
Rol
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Don't know of these are of any help. From Llansantffriad-ym-Mechain:
John, s. of Thomas Challenor, Lloran, parish of Llansilin, bpt. 9 Jan 1677
Thomas, s. of Thomas Chaliner, bpt. 22 Jun 1678
Jane, d. of Thomas Chaliner, bpt. 17 Dec 1679
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Regards
Sarah
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Hello Rol. I note that you want info on Jonas Challoner. Why is this? I can supply the info I have, but am curious about your interest. I can also supply some info on Thomas Chaloner, Headmaster of Shrewsbury School. Let me know.
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Hello Forfarian. I am searching for the parents of Jonas Chaloner, born 1566 in Staffordshire. I have reason to believe he was the illegitimate child of Robert Dudleigh and Queen Elizabeth 1. My request is not to trace the parents of Jonas, (if the information just given is correct!), but to ask how he might have been given his surname and Christian name. I do have a "possibility", since a certain John Chaloner was a servant of Robert Dudleigh. Is it likely that this "John" adopted the child, and gave him his names. My interest in all this is that I am a direct descendant of Jonas.
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Hello Crocus 65. I don't know if you'll read this, as it a while since you wrote. But in case you do, Greetings from across the "pond", from another person interested in finding the parents of Jonas Chaloner, as I am a direct descendant of Jonas. I've been searching for the parents for many years (would you believe 20 or more!?), and the latest theory I have (unproven yet) is that Jonas was an illegitimate son of Robert Dudleigh and Queen Elizabeth 1. I have a distant relative (a John Chaloner) who was a servant of Lord Robert Dudleigh, and MAY have taken the illegitimate child home and raised him as a "Chaloner". I would love to get confiirmation of this, wouldn't you!?
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I'm finding this thread fascinating. I Recently started researching my family tree and Thomas Chaloner was my 9th Great Grandfather. Id be most grateful for any information that anybody has on him and would be willing to share. Id also be fascinated to find out if there is any truth in the rumour of his grandparents!
Many thanks in advance.