RootsChat.Com
Research in Other Countries => Australia => Topic started by: Keith Sherwood on Friday 03 December 10 10:49 GMT (UK)
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Hi, Everyone,
I was wondering whether someone could point me in the right direction to possibly find details of what happened to a William GURNER from Cambridgeshire, England who was transported to Australia in 1829 on the Royal George - was the 25th June date given the day that his ship arrived?
It is my belief that he might have been the same individual who was sentenced to death in 1825 in Cambridge for sheep stealing, but somehow avoided the noose before re-offending four years later.
Very best wishes, keith
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Hi Keith, the Archives Office of Tasmania website has your William Gurner as convict no. 28909. The Royal George departed from London on 12 June 1830 and arrived in Tasmania on 18 October 1830.
http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-16,256,23,C,80
dazey
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http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON18-1-2,202,159,L,80
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The Hobart Town Courier, Friday 8th July 1836 page 1.
The period for which the undermentioned Persons were transported, expiring, at the
date placed after their respective names, Certificates of their Freedom may be
obtained then, or at any subsequent period, upon application at the Muster
Master's Office, Hobart Town, or at that of a Police Magistrate in the interior.
~ Royal George.
676 William Gurner 17, July 1836.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0am9/
Colonial Times, Hobart, Tasmania, Tuesday 10th July 1855 page 3
William Gurner was found guilty on a charge of assaulting a constable, Holmes, with intent, & c.
http://www.rootschat.com/links/0ama/
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Dazey and LoganH,
Sorry, I've been out and about since my post this morning, but thank you so much for all that wonderful information. Looks like William managed to see out his 7 years, but somehow he managed to end up in trouble again, albeit 19 years later.
I'm wondering now whether he married and had a family some time after 1836. This GURNER family originated from Ickleton, Cambs in the 16thC, but several members moved away to the villages close by, marrying and starting lines of their own. This William was a member of one of those branches in villages other than Ickleton.
He seems to be the only person from the GURNER family to pay the price of transportation, as far as I can gather.
A John GURNER, bizarrely, part of the Ickleton family from whom I am directly descended, went out on the Lord Melville in 1816/17 with his new bride Rebecca (nee Gallifant), but he was a member of the judiciary. I wonder whether he noticed that someone with his surname (not a very common one at the time) had arrived in Tasmania thirteen years later to serve his sentence...
keith
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Keith, The mystery now seems to be how did he obtain his release between 1825 and 1829 to enable him to offend again? I am amazed that if his comuted death sentence in was rescinded to enable him to offend again, without it attracting a death sentence on the second occassion. You need the newspaper account of the trial in 1825 which could explain the situation; it might be that he was in service to a member of the gentry who was able to secure his release. A 7 year sentence for a second offence seems very light to me.
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W. Gurner (passenger)in Steerage on board the 'Yarra Yarra' from Launceston
(Tasmania) to Melbourne (Victoria), departed 20th May 1853. Ship to Colony Royal
George, status Free by servitude, (ref POL2220/1/3 p186).
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=2
The Argus (Melbourne, Victoria) Monday 28th October 1867 p5.
A very great variety of petty thefts are again reported by the Police Gazette this
week. Amongst them are the following :-
~ from William Gurner, Gore-street, Fitzroy, an anti-macassar. Definition - a
small cloth placed over the back or arms of chair,to prevent soiling by macassar
oil (gentlemens hair conditioner);
http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/5781830/219918?searchTerm=
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Amazing!!! I have just learned from Rootschat why an anti-macassar is so called, and what in fact is macassar oil. The things you learn on this site.
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Hi Keith
Doesn't the very faint writing on the first link I posted say something about him marrying a Mary??
What a pity it's so hard to read!
dazey
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Dazey,
Should really have said how delighted I was to get all that wonderful personal description of his appearance in that second link you sent - his exact height and complexion, the colour of his hazel eyes, his "overhanging(!)" eyebrows, that Kirk Douglas-like dimple in the middle of his chin, and the obligatory scar by his right eye. Plus his occupation as a ploughman in the village of Little Shelford, a matter of 3 or 4 miles south of Cambridge.
Infuriatingly, I too cannot precisely read the faint (almost invisible ink) writing as far as one can scroll to the right of the double page in that first link...
It certainly looks as though he had been married 13 months (previous to the crime?) to a Mary (from?) an indecipherable place in Cambridgeshire that begins with a P, I think, and has a K in the middle, and possibly a T at the end.
There's also something that looks like "for a lamb" buried in the middle of those sentences, and I was wondering whether that had something to do with the nature of his crime.
I would be MOST grateful if other Rootschatters could get on their Sherlock Holmes deerstalkers and try and decipher those sentences on that first link of yours, Dazey
Many thanks, it just brings these poor characters brilliantly to life again...
Regards, keith
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Hi Keith,
Convict records can be wonderful sometimes - nice that the (presumably) most down and out characters in our family trees can have some of the best descriptions and paper trails of everyone :)
Incidentally my g-g-g-grandmother Mary Holmes was also on the 1817 voyage of the Lord Melville (as a convict) :)
I think the red writing on George's record says:
…for Felony. "Gaol Report" was convd of Sheep Stealing 4 years ago
Disposition … "Hulk Report Good". Married. Stated this after…
2 …. once for a Lamb 13 Months. "Married" W[ife] Mary ….
Cambridges...
I think the 13 months refers to the time he served for nicking the lamb. I can't read the place in Cambridgeshire either :-\
Cheers
Prue
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Had a closer look at the place name, and fiddled with the exposure etc. and thought it looked to begin "Hawkest..."
There's nothing of that spelling in the Genuki gazetteer, but there is a Hauxton - how would that fit in with the movements of the family?
Cheers
Prue
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Hi again, Prue!
Did we have a conversation/chat quite some while ago about that 1816/7 Lord Melville voyage, and did you therefore know that there's a gentleman in Australia who has almost completed a book about the voyage and what subsequently happened to those on board when they got to Australia? If not, then please PM me for details...
And very well done for going cross-eyed on my behalf....all that you surmise would fit the bill very nicely indeed. I'm still slightly surprised that someone convicted of sheep stealing in 1825 and sentenced to death could then 5 years later commit another larceny and only be punished by 7 years transportation, as Redroger has commented.
However, I'm pretty sure it's the same individual, and indeed that place could very well be a phonetic interpretation of the village of Hauxton, which is the very next village to Little Shelford.
Now, there's another evocative echo to this whole tale in that his occupation was given as ploughman, and the only surviving pub now in the village of Little Shelford is - The Plough. Several have disappeared only very recently in the village.
Very many thanks, of course.
Regards, keith
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Keith, I have nothing further to contribute at present other than it might be helpful to us all including yourself if you asked the moderators to merge the two topics.
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Hi again, Everyone,
Have since discovered quite a bit more about what happened to William's four children by Mary WORLING/WORLEN. Son William died in 1847 aged 22, and I have been communicating with descendants of his daughter Kitty, sometimes known as Catherine. In the 1851 census for Cambridge Place in Cambridge, there is an addition to the family called Henry, born 1844. The family rumour has it that the father might have been William's brother John, who was twice in trouble with the authorities for abandoning his family and leaving them to be looked after by the Parish. Both times he got 3 months hard labour at the local house of correction...
William GURNER's wife Mary died in 1880, but can anyone help me with a possible death or burial for William, whose last sighting seems to be in 1867 in Melbourne, caught for more petty larceny. His family name wasn't that common in Australia in those days, I believe...
Regards, Keith
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Hi again, Prue!
Did we have a conversation/chat quite some while ago about that 1816/7 Lord Melville voyage, and did you therefore know that there's a gentleman in Australia who has almost completed a book about the voyage and what subsequently happened to those on board when they got to Australia?
Hi Keith :D
Yes, we did chat about that, I haven't heard any more about the book though so I hope it is still going ahead. Do you have the fellow's contact details? If so could you PM them to me - I have a bit more info about my Mary (who was on the boat) that he may want.
Cheers
Prue
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Prue,
Yes, I was lead to understand that he was now very close to completing the book - I'll PM you his details, and then you'd better rush those details about your Mary to him a.s.a.p!
Regards, keith
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Hi again, Everyone,
Over four months since this thread was last active, but since then I've been in contact with William GURNER's 4-times-great-granddaughter, who lives in the very same town as myself, here in Cambridge. She has located William's wife Mary GURNER's 1880 grave in Mill Road Cemetery, about a mile from where I live.
So, is there a kind and resourceful soul out there in Australia who could possibly come across a death entry (some time after 1867, and possibly in the Melbourne area) for William, and even a final resting place, the other side of the world from the wife the judicial system in 1829 saw fit to separate him from...?
Very best wishes, keith
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Hi Keith,
Lovely that you have made a connection! Wouldn't it be great to re-connect William and his wife after all this time, too (I know, I'm too sentimental ::) )
Can I suggest that you post a new message asking for the death/burial lookup for William? It will attract new researchers who may not be following this thread. Just a thought.
Cheers
Prue
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At the moment I'm reading Robert Hughes' book "TheFatal Shore" which is full of fascinating-if horrifying -details about the treatment of transportees
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Prue,
Yes, it's become a particularly evocative adventure, and I'll certainly start a new thread as you suggest...
And Cati, I too read "The Fatal Shore" a while ago, and thought it very good. Also the novel: "For The Term of His Natural Life" written in 1874 by Marcus Clarke, another excellent read.
Regards, keith