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England (Counties as in 1851-1901) => England => Surrey => Topic started by: PJCPJC on Friday 10 December 10 13:43 GMT (UK)
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Hi everybody and greetings from Australia.
John CLARK b 1777 Scotland (thanks :o Eyesee) d before 1851
A source names him John Stough CLARK, but the middle name is unlikely because at all the childrens' baptisms no middle name is recorded but wife Louisa's is recorded every time.
1816 res Rotherhithe Street, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Mariner
1817 res James's Street, Limehouse London E14 : occ Mariner
1818 res Limehouse London E14 : occ Mariner
1820 res Limehouse London E14 : occ Mariner
1821 res Paradise Place, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Mariner
1823 res Globe Stairs, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Mariner
1824 res Trinity Street, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Mariner
1828 res Trinity Street, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Mariner
1830 res Trinity Street, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Mariner
1831 res Trinity Street, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Master Mariner
1833 res Trinity Street, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Mariner
1835 res Russell Street, Rotherhithe London SE16 : occ Mariner
1841 census Mariners Alms Houses, Bow Common, London E3
married 12/10/1815 St Giles’s, Camberwell (The marriage register shows both otp and John was a widower).
Louisa Lancaster HODGES ch 30/05/1794 St Mary's, Rotherhithe d 1st Qtr 1875 reg Mile End Old Town [daughter of John HODGES & Sarah STROUD, but married and signed the register as Louisa Lancaster STROUD, which also appears in baptism registers for the children]
1851 census 7 Maritime Cottages, Stepney London E1 : occ Annuitant - widow
1861 census 7 Maritime Alms Houses, Bow Common Lane, London E3 : occ Annuitant; 1 servant
1871 census 7 Maritime Alms Houses, Bow Common Lane, London E3 : occ Annuitant [also present:- Emma CLARK boarder age 21 unmarried b Clerkenwell London : occ Machinist].
I believe I have all their children (eleven - thanks Eyesee! ;D)
John CLARK was a common name and I cannot access an LDS Family History Centre to view films of parish registers, so I cannot yet make further progress on him, his first wife, and Louisa Lancaster HODGES' parents. :'(
These are my wife’s great-great-great grandparents. Any chance of some help please?
Many thanks for viewing,
Peter.
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How about this marriage
St George's East Christ Church Watney St
1871 Jan 17
Ernest Victor Albert SANDERSON, 21, bachelor, Commercial clerk, Christ Church, father John Sanderson, Wool merchant
Elizabeth Louisa Steer CLARK, 19, spinster, -, Christ Church, father Henry Hanwell Clark, Master mariner
Married by licence
Both signed in presence of Chas Jno Osborne, Mary Ann Lines
Looks like Elizabeth SANDERSON was the grand-daughter, with Henry Hanwell CLARK being a son of John and Louisa.
Ian C
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Looks like there were two Henry Hanwell CLARKs.
First one born 1819 baptised 1820 Limehouse. He died and was buried 17 Nov 1820 at St Paul, Deptford, according to Pilot Familysearch
The second one was
Rotherhithe St Mary
1821 Sep 26, Henry Hanwell, s/o John & Louisa Lancaster CLARK, Paradise Place, Mariner, born 1821 Jan 15
That makes 12 altogether
Ian C
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Hi Eyesee,
Thank you so much for your two very helpful replies. I had Henry Hanwell CLARK’s baptism 13 Oct 1820 Limehouse with a birthdate of 13 Aug 1820. I didn’t have his death and I missed the second Henry Hanwell CLARK entirely. Thank you very much. I am assuming Paradise Place was in Rotherhithe. Actually, I make that 11 children now.
That SANDERSON – CLARK marriage was another great find. So Ernest is a grandson-in-law. I hope I end up finding out more about Louisa Lancaster STROUD’s family and who John CLARK’s first wife was.
Many thanks,
Peter.
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1816 George Houston )
1817 George Houston ) Baptised twice by the look of it
1818 Sarah Ann Louisa
1820 Henry Hanwell
1821 Henry Hanwell
1823 Alfred Cockshott
1825 Jeanette
1828 Louisa Stanley
1830 Elizabeth Hodges
1831 Lilly Lancaster
1833 Margaret Ann
1835 John Stroud
Makes 12 11 to me now too
Ian C
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Hi Eyesee,
Thanks for your reply. George was indeed baptised twice. First as George Hoasstown or possibly Hoarstown on 09/08/1816 and then as George Houston on 10/10/1817, with both entries quoting the same 18/07/1816 birthdate. An acceptable way to change a name in pre-registration days, I suppose.
Many thanks,
Peter.
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The 1841 census says John is 64, and was born in Scotland. Neither Louisa or any of the children were born in the county.
There is a Thomas STEERS living with them aged 8. Possibly a son of John STEERS and Charlotte Maria nee BAIZLEY. He was a Mariner and married at St Giles Camberwell, same church as John and Louisa. Possibly some connection with Henry Hanwell CLARK. He may have married a STEER to give his daughter that name as one of her christian names.
Sarah Ann Louisa CLARK, daughter of John married a Thomas Alfred STEER, 9 Feb 1838, at St John Horsleydown, Surrey.
Ian C
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Hi Eyesee,
I share your theory about the naming of Henry Hanwell’s daughter but I cannot yet find anything to back it up. Lots of Henry CLARKs getting married, but God forbid the registrar should write down the man’s middle name before accepting the fee.
Pinning John CLARK’s birth to Scotland was a major find! :o When I saw that 1841 census image it was very faint and a lower resolution (I’m on dialup and sometimes images don’t complete – if I had a pet tortoise I would name it Dialup). ???
There may yet be a twelfth child. Louisa’s grandson in the 1851 & 1861 censuses is apparently Thomas Alfred CLARK b 1st Qtr 1845 reg Poplar b 15/02/1845 ch 09/03/1845 All Saints, Poplar Parents: Thomas George CLARK occ Engineer & Janet (SURNAME?).
Thank you very much,
Peter.
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Hi Eyesee,
No. Still eleven children.
Louisa's grandson Thomas Alfred CLARK's parents are her daughter Jeannette CLARK and Thomas George CLARK, son of Thomas Ralph CLARK occ Engineer. They married 08/04/1844 at St Paul's, Shadwell and her father John CLARK was not recorded as deceased.
Regards,
Peter.
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Hi Eyesee,
Jeannette's sister Elizabeth Hodges CLARK married Thomas George's brother George William CLARK 08/01/1859 St Peter's, Mile End Old Town.
Regards,
Peter.
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I am now convinced Louisa Lancaster was baptised Louisa Lancaster HODGES ch 30/05/1794 St Mary's, Rotherhithe, daughter of John HODGES and Sarah STROUD whose marriage I cannot yet trace. For some reason, she adopted her mother's surname :-X and signed the register as Louisa Lancaster STROUD.
Her siblings were John HODGES, Carolina Matilda HODGES, and Constantia Cope HODGES.
Best wishes to all,
Peter.
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Peter
If both parents surnames are included in a baptism, which these ones are, then there is a good possibility that they were not married.
Ian C
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Interesting that there is a Charles Stroud LANCASTER marrying at St Ann's Soho in 1828. He was a clergyman, age 35 in 1841, so born perhaps 1802-1806
Wonder if he is not some connection.
Ian C
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Hi Eyesee,
Thank you very much for your replies.
I too doubt Sarah STROUD and John HODGES ever got round to marrying, which would explain daughter Louisa Lancaster reverting to STROUD. I have not yet found anything else about her sisters, despite their fairly unique names.
Charles Stroud LANCASTER is indeed food for thought. So far I cannot find his birth nor baptism nor entries in the 1851 and 1861 censuses. He died 4th Qtr 1865 reg Poplar.
I beg to differ but in the 1841 census his occupation seems to be Clerk. The National Archives index says he is insured March 1832, address 3 Cannon Street Road (which is in London E1) described as gent.
Very best wishes,
Peter.
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Hello,
I am researching Clark/e in Middlesex, and trying to find my husbands gt grandfathers parentage. He was a Thomas A Clark/e. I was wondering if you have any information on the Thomas A Clark in your line that is relevant to mine. I can only trace back as far as 1881 with any certainty to my Thomas A, in a census in Jersey, where he is a soldier in the RA. Forward from that is easier. I know he had a forebear, who was a sailor called John Clarke. Do you know what happened to your Thomas A?
Thank you
Rachel Clarke
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Hi Rachel,
All I have on my Thomas A Clark is:-
Thomas Alfred CLARK
b 15/02/1845 Poplar
1851 census 7 Maritime Cottages, Stepney London E1 (mother Jeannette's mother Louisa Lancaster CLARK's household) : occ Scholar
1861 census 7 Maritime Alms Houses, Bow Common Lane, London E3 (mother Jeannette's mother Louisa Lancaster CLARK's household)
Parents:
Thomas George CLARK
1844 (wedding) 5 Collingwood Place, London E14 : occ Engineer
1845 res Poplar London E14 : occ Engineer
1846 res 7 Maritime Cottages, Stepney London E1 (wife Jeannette's father John CLARK's household) : occ Engineer
1860 res 17 Peel Grove, Bethnal Green London E2 : occ Engineer
married 08/04/1844 St Paul's, Shadwell
Jeannette CLARK
b 30/04/1824 Rotherhithe
ch 06/05/1825 St Mary's, Rotherhithe
1841 census Mariners Alms Houses, Bow Common, London E3
1844 (wedding) Mariners Alms Houses, Bow Common, London E3 (recorded as Jannet - of full age)
1846 res 7 Maritime Cottages, Stepney London E1 (father John's household)
1860 res 17 Peel Grove, Bethnal Green London E2
Thomas George CLARK's parents:
Thomas Ralph CLARK
1844 (son Thomas George's wedding) occ Engineer
d pre-1859
married 06/03/1817 St Mary's, Newington
Sarah Allen SMITH
Do you still feel your Thomas A CLARK is my Thomas Alfred CLARK?
Best wishes,
Peter.
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Hi Peter
Thank you for your prompt reply. I have been checking facts on my Thomas A and I am beginning to think that he is not your Thomas A. I tried to work out the line using your details for your Thomas, and I couldn't really get a definite line. I did find a possible death for your Thomas A. in 1913 in Poplar. Also 1 or 2 census possibilities, with a wife/daughter called Lydia. However, I have definitely got my Thomas A on the 1881,1901 and 1911 census. I can pinpoint these censuses because of the unusual name of one of his daughters, and the fact of the last two censuses also being in Weymouth, where he died and he got married. I cannot find him or his family in the 1891, which makes me think that he and his family are abroad, where he is serving in the Royal Artillery. Its the time before 1875 when he married in Weymouth, that I have a problem with. He puts that he was born in Middlesex, London, his birth date varies, but generally works out to be 1846/7. He died in 1930 in Weymouth aged 84.
I have been checking all the certificates I have on him, and realise that on the 3 censuses I have, he only puts his name as Thomas Clarke. On his wifes death certificate he is put down as T.A. Clarke,and on some of the other certificates. I am beginning to wonder if his middle name is just wishful thinking. He put down that he has a relative, possibly a father called John Clarke, who was a sailor, hence my interest in your Thomas, even though I realise your John Clark would have been his grandfather. I have tried to find a will, also his army service record, but so far nothing. There are more army records coming out the end of the year on Findmypast I believe, which I will search when they become available.
I also note that your Clark surname seems to continue through the years of the censuses and birth without the e, whereas our fluctuates, but eventually has ended up with an e.
Anyway, if I can find a link I will get back in touch with you, and hope that you will do the same if you need any more of my information. I hope that you can understand this rather confusing email.
Thanking you
Rachel
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Hi Rachel,
Fair enough. God forbid the registrars could stretch their efforts to writing a middle name before accepting the fee. :( After all it is an insanely cushy job and I honestly cannot see what they do that you or I could not have done when we were teenagers, and the concept of paying a fee to record a death has always been reprehensible to me. >:( The moron who registered my mother's death forgot the fee and subsequently wrote to me requesting it. If my wife had not urged me to "do the right thing"... :o
Just in case he yet proves relevant to you, I neglected to mention Thomas Alfred CLARK was christened 09/03/1845 All Saints, Poplar. His three sisters were:-
Janet Sarah CLARK
ch 27/09/1846 Trinity Church, Stepney
1846 res 7 Maritime Cottages, Stepney London E1
Lily Stroud CLARK
b 26/11/1852
ch 29/12/1852 St Peter's, Stepney
Best wishes,
Peter.
Amy Stanley CLARK
b 03/05/1860
ch 27/05/1860 St John's, Bethnal Green
1860 res 17 Peel Grove, Bethnal Green London E2
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Hi,
My GG Grandmother is Lily Lancaster Clarke, she married John Gibbons on the 7 April 1850, they came to Australia the same year.
I had most of what is here, but I did my research many years ago and I am just getting back into it now.
Here is a bit of what I have
George Housten Clark born at sea (Atlantic Ocean is one reference) He married Elizabeth Messant 25 Mar 1839 Saint Dunstan, Stepney, London. She died before 1871 as he then married a Jane Chambers in 1871.
I gave up with John Clark when I found he was born in Scotland LOL (Don't forget this was in the days, where many miles of travel had to be completed with poring over mostly illegible microfiche!)
Louisa Lancaster Stroud has always puzzled me, but stating her name here as Hodges will probably clear that up or by the look of it, make it more confusing. (I had her parents pencilled in as something else but I knew I was wrong)
I think John was named as John Stough Clarke on Lily's death certificate. (I just checked but it is not filed where it should be grrr)
John Stroud Clark, Lilie's brother also came to Australia, he married Annie Daley 9 May 1860 in Sydney.
I have more if interested Peter.
Cheers
Denise
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Hi Denise,
I have had to overcome numerous technical difficulties :'(, so please accept my apologies for an extremely late reply to your very kind assistance.
I assume the doctor completing that death certificate merely wrote what he thought he heard. Lilly’s grandmother was indeed a STROUD, and I could be persuaded that was John’s middle name rather than Stough. Finding the right John CLARK among Scottish records is indeed a daunting task, especially now that I am in Australia too.
If you feel like passing on any more information that would be very welcome indeed.
Very best wishes,
Peter.
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Hi Peter,
I am so sorry I missed this. I just started researching again as I am due to visit Rotherhithe next month.
The indexing is wrong with the last name being Hodges, Hodges was John Stroud's middle name. So when Louisa Lancaster Stroud signed her marriage certificate is was her correct name. There is a family bible for sale (way out of my price range) This has a lot of the family recorded. "Louisa Lancaster Stroud, the Daughter of the of the Aforementioned, Born May 8th 1794, Twenty Eight Minutes Past vie in the Morning at No. 296 Rotherhithe Street, Rother[hithe] & Baptised 30th May at St Marys Rotherhithe by the Rev. Shearman, Godfather, Mr. Willm Lancaster Snr Godmothers Mrs. Stone and Mrs. Baldwin." Lancaster being Sarah's maiden name. John Hodges Stroud's will clears up a lot, but from a quick glance also causes a bit of confusion.
I know the area in Rotherhithe is not the same but going there will still be great.
Still happy to swap info.
Cheers
Denise